Guild Wars 2

Did something change in the meta? Or maybe I just realized this? I got guild mates saying guardians out-dps warriors

They always have, it’s just easier to get to high end dps on a war. Not sure where you got your metrics for popularity, though that’s largely irrelevant.

Depends what kind of warrior you’re talking about. The main warrior in a party will run either EA or PS, which sacrifices their own DPS by a lot.

Besides, you don’t bring warriors or guardians for DPS, if you want DPS, you grab an ele, which out DPSs both classes by light years.

Guardians out-DPSing warriors is old knowledge, about a year old or so.

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Who said?

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

The bottom line is: does it really matter?

You want warriors for banners and EA, you want guardians for prot/Aegis/reflects/blinds if needed. If you don’t need it then there’s no point in taking guardians because other classes have higher DPS.

I don’t know about that, I see almost a minimum of 1 warrior a game per team, up to 4. I’ve never seen that number of players with guardians. At least in NA.

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

I play both War and Meditation Guardian. I actually find that the sustain on the Guard is higher and it can have much better burst damage. With GS + Mace/Focus you have blocks that not only act as sustain but also hit like a truck when they trigger.

These aren’t relevant to pve dps, as you shouldn’t be running meditations. Also, GS isn’t even the best guard weapon. Technically, scepter is best dps, but this is assuming all of smite hits. Sword/focus will be better than gs, except for when you’re using gs 2-5 in a burst. Hammer/gs is going to generally be your best real dps, but it might not be worth it to spam light fields during many fights.

And of course, you bring a guardian for the utility. Otherwise every group would be 5 lh ekes eles

Sword/focus isn’t better than GS for dps. GS is better DPS than Sword/Focus if you decide to camp on a single weaponset. Sword/Focus only comes into play if you’re going to swap weaponsets.

GS + Sword/Focus is higher DPS than camping GS, due to the Sword having a stronger autoattack than GS while GS has far better cd’s. But camping the GS is higher DPS than Sword/Focus.

Hammer/GS is only higher DPS than Sword+Focus/GS if you get it perfect/lucky and never interrupt the long castingtime of Hammer’s autoattack while also swapping back to the GS immediately when the weaponswap timer is off CD.

i havent witnessed this (as a pvper), warrior is still the easiest class and as such they are cancerous, spreading like a virus.

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

Rangersix.1754:

Hammer/GS is only higher DPS than Sword+Focus/GS if you get it perfect/lucky and never interrupt the long castingtime of Hammer’s autoattack while also swapping back to the GS immediately when the weaponswap timer is off CD.

even then its not higher because gs + sword focus builds include unscathed contender.
5-5-0-4-0 hammer is slightly higher than gs s/f damage if you dont include unscathed contender. if you include it gs s/f is higher dps, always.

Ghotistyx.6942:

These aren’t relevant to pve dps, as you shouldn’t be running meditations. Also, GS isn’t even the best guard weapon. Technically, scepter is best dps, but this is assuming all of smite hits. Sword/focus will be better than gs, except for when you’re using gs 2-5 in a burst. Hammer/gs is going to generally be your best real dps, but it might not be worth it to spam light fields during many fights.

And of course, you bring a guardian for the utility. Otherwise every group would be 5 lh ekes eles

so wrong except for the scepter part. and you dont have to hit all smite hits. i believe 12 are enough. other than that there are situations in which you cannot keep up unscathed contender if you are using gs s/f. even then scepter is better because of higher UC uptime.

Still want hammer for the easy prot for your group.

And people saying you should bring an ele over a warrior clearly never do PuGs. In a PuG a warrior or guardian will achieve far more of their potential DPS than the ele who is losing over half his HP or dying in 1 hit from Mossman trying to melee because his group fails to support him properly.

Ele/mesmer/thief do not perform optimal DPS without proper group support and setup, and that’s why PuG’s always ask for Guardian and Warrior. Because dying on either of those two is much harder than on a 13k HP elementalist.

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

You’re discussing this in a thread that’s clearly about PvE, so it would be odd if someone thought otherwise.

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

Do I need to link my videos of you going full defeated at Lupicus and eating the floor at Alphard?

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

I have a feeling this guy has never played a zerk guard in his life. Zerk guardian in PvP is fine if you are good, you have blocks and blinds a plenty. In PvE Zerk guard is a hard spec to play since you can’t blind/block a lot of things in PvE. Which means you need to be really good with your dodges and seeing telegraphs, because if you miss one step you are dead with the lowest health pool in the game (same as thief and ele). I play zerk on every class I play in PvE, and thief is 10xs easier zerk than zerk guard.

And back to the OP, in no way is guardian more popular in PvE than warrior. They have the capability to out DPS a warrior, but only if you are exceedingly talented (keeping Unscathed contender on). But overall a Warrior will out-DPS a guard because you rely on keeping up Aegis (not getting hit by anything) in order to stay above them in dps. Also the survivability of that build is not easy. Meanwhile my zerk warrior can hit for 25k HB pretty regularly. And for utility, with the new grandmaster PS, they can stack more might than a guard can, and keep it up permanently.

So no, Warrior is the trend, and guardians are the one that are becoming more and more extinct/obsolete.

eleshazar.6902:

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

I have a feeling this guy has never played a zerk guard in his life. Zerk guardian in PvP is fine if you are good, you have blocks and blinds a plenty. In PvE Zerk guard is a hard spec to play since you can’t blind/block a lot of things in PvE. Which means you need to be really good with your dodges and seeing telegraphs, because if you miss one step you are dead with the lowest health pool in the game (same as thief and ele). I play zerk on every class I play in PvE, and thief is 10xs easier zerk than zerk guard.

And back to the OP, in no way is guardian more popular in PvE than warrior. They have the capability to out DPS a warrior, but only if you are exceedingly talented (keeping Unscathed contender on). But overall a Warrior will out-DPS a guard because you rely on keeping up Aegis (not getting hit by anything) in order to stay above them in dps. Also the survivability of that build is not easy. Meanwhile my zerk warrior can hit for 25k HB pretty regularly. And for utility, with the new grandmaster PS, they can stack more might than a guard can, and keep it up permanently.

So no, Warrior is the trend, and guardians are the one that are becoming more and more extinct/obsolete.

I played zerk guard in PvP. It does a stupid amount of damage just by pressing the sword #3. At least with a warrior you need some kind of stun to land the damage.

Not to mention the auto attack that crits for 4k on the sword. Guardian is not hard , it just more boring than warrior because of the low mobility.

a t s e.9614:

eleshazar.6902:

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

I have a feeling this guy has never played a zerk guard in his life. Zerk guardian in PvP is fine if you are good, you have blocks and blinds a plenty. In PvE Zerk guard is a hard spec to play since you can’t blind/block a lot of things in PvE. Which means you need to be really good with your dodges and seeing telegraphs, because if you miss one step you are dead with the lowest health pool in the game (same as thief and ele). I play zerk on every class I play in PvE, and thief is 10xs easier zerk than zerk guard.

And back to the OP, in no way is guardian more popular in PvE than warrior. They have the capability to out DPS a warrior, but only if you are exceedingly talented (keeping Unscathed contender on). But overall a Warrior will out-DPS a guard because you rely on keeping up Aegis (not getting hit by anything) in order to stay above them in dps. Also the survivability of that build is not easy. Meanwhile my zerk warrior can hit for 25k HB pretty regularly. And for utility, with the new grandmaster PS, they can stack more might than a guard can, and keep it up permanently.

So no, Warrior is the trend, and guardians are the one that are becoming more and more extinct/obsolete.

I played zerk guard in PvP. It does a stupid amount of damage just by pressing the sword #3. At least with a warrior you need some kind of stun to land the damage.

Not to mention the auto attack that crits for 4k on the sword. Guardian is not hard , it just more boring than warrior because of the low mobility.

The thread is PvE oriented you won’t shut up about pvp. And even in a perfect world a DPS meditation guardian will not out-DPS a non meditation guardian simply because you are losing out on a ton of % damage increase traits that you don’t see otherwise.

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

There are less and less warrior in wvw. Fact.

Didn’t guardian already more popular than warrior long time ago? Everytime i saw a greatsword heavy, over 70% is a guardian.

In WvW, sure I’ll give you that much. For some reason ANET decided to shove all the “Support” down the guardians’ throat and let warrior have the cool guy toys. I wont event play my guardian in WvW anymore I’m so sick of the way people expect us to play.

So this means we’re going to have arbitrary " nerf guardian too OP " threads now because guardians are more visible in game?

Because that sure sounds like what happened to warrior.

In all honesty : guardians have always been popular. You can never go wrong with one in your PVE group, and they’re vital in both WvW and sPVP.

Golden class.

a t s e.9614:

eleshazar.6902:

a t s e.9614:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Xae Isareth.1364:

a t s e.9614:

Loco.4561:

I still see more warriors than guardians, yes guardians can out dps warriors and it takes skill to do considering the low HP. Warriors however doesn’t take a lot of skill, low risk – high reward.

Both warrior and guardian don’t take much skill , both classes are straight forward: swing your great sword and that’s about it. Although warrior has healing signet, guard also has a lot of passive regen and aegis from traits.

Except if you go full DPS as a guardian, you have the lowest HP in the game, on the same level as eles, but without their huge array of skills.

DPS guard is just as faceroll as warrior, heals from meditations and tons of blocks. If you want to play something hard, play S/X glass ele.

If you bring a meditation guardian to any sort of pve group oriented content you should be kicked.

Guardians are brought for their group support over dps. (This does not mean bring an AH or Virtues cleric guardian.)

It means bring a guardian that is in full zerker gear with shouts and/or consecrations for the reflects.

Just because you can bring group wide boons doesn’t mean you should sacrifice DPS. And seriously if you bring a meditation guard to dungeons. you are doing it wrong.

If you want hard you run absolutely nothing in the toughness line except maybe strength in numbers but then you are giving up a ton of your DPS

The person who thinks I’m talking about PvE needs to be kicked , not me. But while we are at it, guardian and warrior are easy in both PvP and PvE.

I have a feeling this guy has never played a zerk guard in his life. Zerk guardian in PvP is fine if you are good, you have blocks and blinds a plenty. In PvE Zerk guard is a hard spec to play since you can’t blind/block a lot of things in PvE. Which means you need to be really good with your dodges and seeing telegraphs, because if you miss one step you are dead with the lowest health pool in the game (same as thief and ele). I play zerk on every class I play in PvE, and thief is 10xs easier zerk than zerk guard.

And back to the OP, in no way is guardian more popular in PvE than warrior. They have the capability to out DPS a warrior, but only if you are exceedingly talented (keeping Unscathed contender on). But overall a Warrior will out-DPS a guard because you rely on keeping up Aegis (not getting hit by anything) in order to stay above them in dps. Also the survivability of that build is not easy. Meanwhile my zerk warrior can hit for 25k HB pretty regularly. And for utility, with the new grandmaster PS, they can stack more might than a guard can, and keep it up permanently.

So no, Warrior is the trend, and guardians are the one that are becoming more and more extinct/obsolete.

I played zerk guard in PvP. It does a stupid amount of damage just by pressing the sword #3. At least with a warrior you need some kind of stun to land the damage.

Not to mention the auto attack that crits for 4k on the sword. Guardian is not hard , it just more boring than warrior because of the low mobility.

Yet there are warriors that hit for 6-10k on eviscerates along with 3-4 second stuns high health pool and good passive sustain. Zerker meditation guardian requires a lot of active play. Sword 3 is very easy to evade as long as you don’t stand still or walk back in a straight line. You’ll easily get burned down by any decent-good condi engi or any form of semi spamable cc, profession like mace warrior. Outside of travelers runes you’re slow and easily kited. Over 5k hours of guardian it gets challenging against good opponents and cond specs.

Edit: As far as PvE goes who really cares? Anything works unless you’re running elite speed runs or high level fractals and demand only one copy pasta max deeps build. PvE and PvP respect toward each play style.

ICEing.9237:

Did something change in the meta? Or maybe I just realized this? I got guild mates saying guardians out-dps warriors

really? that’s…hilarious. been in wvw lately? or..at all? >_>

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Lightsbane.9012:

ICEing.9237:

Did something change in the meta? Or maybe I just realized this? I got guild mates saying guardians out-dps warriors

really? that’s…hilarious. been in wvw lately? or..at all? >_>

Right, because guardians in WvW running zero DPS builds and warriors with their base health being higher being able to run zero + 1 DPS builds clearly means warriors damage > guardians.

In a situation where a warrior and guardian are both built for damage and have identical buffs, guardian > warrior.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

Lmao this guy with his " You should be kicked !!! " . Last time I ran 5 signet warrior with a riffle. Never got kicked. Mad?

Hardly surprising.

Every guild-zerg I come across nowadays is boasting something like 40-50% Guardians. The class turns everything around them into an immortal killing machine while being super-hard to kill themselves.

It’s really quite annoying.

Imo Guardian group-support is the most imbalanced thing in this game.

Dee Jay.2460:

Imo Guardian group-support is the most imbalanced thing in this game.

lol

a t s e.9614:

Lmao this guy with his " You should be kicked !!! " . Last time I ran 5 signet warrior with a riffle. Never got kicked. Mad?

If it’s a speed clear group you would have been kicked. Because they would have actually cared.

maha.7902:

Lightsbane.9012:

ICEing.9237:

Did something change in the meta? Or maybe I just realized this? I got guild mates saying guardians out-dps warriors

really? that’s…hilarious. been in wvw lately? or..at all? >_>

Right, because guardians in WvW running zero DPS builds and warriors with their base health being higher being able to run zero + 1 DPS builds clearly means warriors damage > guardians.

In a situation where a warrior and guardian are both built for damage and have identical buffs, guardian > warrior.

can’t say i’ve ever lost to a zerk dps guardian. zerk dps hammerhealscrub warrior however..

Allow me to quote myself again:

In a situation where a warrior and guardian are both built for damage and have identical buffs, guardian > warrior.

I’m on about in a vacuum setting, not wvw duels.

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

And not a single thing in that list was a meditation……… and here is what people are talking about.

The OP was referencing the meta in PvE as far as guardian compared to warriors. Then some genius came along and talked about how a triple meditation guardian is the “meta” in PvE. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

And not a single thing in that list was a meditation……… and here is what people are talking about.

The OP was referencing the meta in PvE as far as guardian compared to warriors. Then some genius came along and talked about how a triple meditation guardian is the “meta” in PvE. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

Merciful Intervention is on the list, which is a pretty good skill imo.

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

jportell.2197:

Moleless.1462:

jportell.2197:

a t s e.9614:

Well since its a PvE thread , if guardian was so hard to play then pugs should ask for warrs only , not heavies. Usually its what I see when I check the LFG system :" heavies only " because they are easier to play.

Like really dude, since when guardian is a hard mode class?

Not saying it’s “hardmode”. However your example of a meditation guardian should get you kicked from any dungeon group. Not just the speed clears. People want guardians for the group boons and reflects etc if you run a triple meditation guardian you come across two issues.

1. Your DPS sucks compared to a non meditation guardian (you lose Dmg% increase traits that you would get otherwise.)
2. Your group support sucks as your three utility slots are taken up by the most selfish utility skills that a guardian has (Think of triple cantrip eles or worse 5 signet warriors).

The only thing you are going to be giving your group is the random blind (assuming you are six deep into precision) and a few stacks of vulnerability here and there. All of which another class can do infinitely better.

PvP DPS builds should never be used in PvE and vice versa.

Uhhh, which Dmg% increase traits are you missing out on by playing meditation?

You are either missing unscathed contender (20%), Fiery Wrath (10%), Radiant Power (10%), Elusive Power (10% when endurance not full),or Power of the virtuous (1%/boon).

Now usually no matter what build you run, you won’t be able to get all of these however by not going into valor at all you are opening up your options greatly for dmg% increase traits. If you run triple meditations you are going 6 deep into a line that is the most selfish line in the game for guardians. If you are running a triple meditation guardian you bring absolutely nothing to the group. Valor has absolutely no flat damage increase traits however EVERY other line that the guardian has does have a flat increase trait somewhere as well as something else to offer the group like decreased recharge on shouts. Decrease recharge on consecrations which give reflects or fire fields etc. Better group condi clear for certain dungeons.

Communal Defense is probably one of the best group utilities guardian has and its in the valor line.

In regards to your idea that meditation guardians are selfish, its hard to be selfish as a guardian when most of their weapon skills provide group support in some way. So saying that a selfish guardian exists is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever heard. In fact, its really hard to create a selfish guardian build. You would literally have to use scepter, no off hand weapon, meditations or signets and never use your virtues.

Do you ever see anyone play like that? I sure haven’t. While other classes have to trait heavily into support to help allies guardians support is innate. So even though players aren’t running your “ideal” guardian build, they are still supporting allies in some way shape and form.

Actually guardian weapons provide support with only staff (if you take this in a dungeon any speed clear group will kick you.), and the hammer auto attack chain. Focus provides minimal support and sword provides none. Greatsword is good for cc and not much else as far as a group is concerned. Communal defenses also has a 20s CD so it’s not exactly THAT great since guardians have so many blocks that the proccing communal defenses would be completely random I would rather use retreat, hold the line etc. Also communal defenses would not be taken in a mediation build because you are sacrificing the meditations healing you which is half of a meditation build alone. Then lets not forget you are still missing the tons of %dmg increase traits that guardians get from EVERY other line besides valor. And no a meditation guardian is not really supporting anyone at all besides himself…. Its equivalent of taking a necro in your group. Except necros can still bring wells.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Can-a-selfish-guardian-really-exist/first#post3896158

And not a single thing in that list was a meditation……… and here is what people are talking about.

The OP was referencing the meta in PvE as far as guardian compared to warriors. Then some genius came along and talked about how a triple meditation guardian is the “meta” in PvE. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

Merciful Intervention is on the list, which is a pretty good skill imo.

And the only meditation that provides some group support. And even at that its group support isn’t THAT good.

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

jportell.2197:

Aza.2105:

In comparison to what other utility skill? Afaik, no other utility functions like Merciful Intervention. But this isn’t the point of my posts to you. You said valor is bad because of no support, I told you there is communal defense. So that argument is now invalid. You said that guardians can be selfish, in reality they can’t unless they really try hard to do everything not to assist allies.

I don’t have a subjective view of support, I’m talking about objectively. By the definition of what it means. Objectively speaking the entire class design is built upon support, no one can deny this.

And if you want group support you would go anywhere but valor. PvE Is a DPS race. Valor gives the worst DPS options in guardian trait lines. It also gives the worst support from all of guardians trait lines.

Do you do teq or wurm?