Guild Wars 2

Ok just did a duel against a ranger…. well he just NEVER died!!

Just stack:
condi power
toughness
healing power
And get troll unguent

He did 1000+ healing per second for 10sec.. on 25sec cooldown.
Ok he invest into it.. yeah I get that..

But I go full zerker and he just evade around (ALL THE TIME!! and stacking conditions), when I get him at 50% health he just heals back to full and repeat..

Well yeah I can pop berserker stance or endure pain or shield stance.. but after awhile that all on cooldown.. so after that we cant use evade skills all the time, we just eat it.. and he just keep evading around doing almost nothing but stacking condi and heal.

Warriors are OP, but that’s balance? ….

Troll Unguent has lesser overall HPS, even with 1k healing power, than Healing Signet with 0 healing power.
The healing is more time concentrated, which is a benefit, but it also has a whole second cast time that make it quite easy to interrupt.
The amount of evades on ranger S/D … that’s a different topic.

I really think there are overall better healing skills than HS (Healing Turret and Withdraw; just my opinion). This just isn’t case.

Yes I see you have to invest for it (healing power)

But if you go condi bunker like they do, and also have protection they are just warriors + insane amount of evades + HS + enough condi pressure to get you down..

It issnt a fast fight.. but he will win.

Its ok to have the amount of healing, but the evade spam + the condi pressure they have also?? because they can also keep adding poison..

You can interrupt troll ungent.

ensoriki.5789:

You can interrupt troll ungent.

good point, but not easy when they have many ways to get you on 1 place also (roots) or let your pet knockback your opponent so you can heal.

And interrupting issnt doing that much.. only for a few seconds and its back..

I’m not defending the ranger as a whole.
There are many things with them I dislike (spirits, too many weapon evades, massive passive condition removal), as many things where I find them weak (lack of decent active condi removal, almost every shout, little viability of power specs unless used by a godlike player).
It’s just that Troll Unguent, IMHO, is perfectly fine as it is :P

Troll Unguent is stupid, fighting that build makes you want to rip your head off. In spvp i did full zerk guardian hammer GS, i could not dps it enough while it only STANDS and activates heals (no evading).
But almost all classes have really silly solo builds, nothing new about that.
Sticking to party pvp gw2, things much better in that.

More like you never died.

Your are fighting a build that sacrifices absolutely everything for survival. It would be strange if you could kill him alone.

Oren.1736:

Troll Unguent is stupid, fighting that build makes you want to rip your head off. In spvp i did full zerk guardian hammer GS, i could not dps it enough while it only STANDS and activates heals (no evading).
But almost all classes have really silly solo builds, nothing new about that.
Sticking to party pvp gw2, things much better in that.

Hmm ok, well I put it on NoNo list for duels…

-Condi bunker ranger
-Mesmers (I just hate them)
-good thiefs (I do like the challenge, but some are very good :-P)
-some good necro’s are insane in duels (out of stunbreaker/stability.. that’s the point I just smash my head against the screen when I get another fear and see my health bar drops to zero so fast)
-zerker Ele (I like the challenge, but man some can just land an insane burst and there are almost all instant)
-some good dps guardians.. insane damage :-P (well atleast good guardians can outplay warriors.. most of them don’t)

Well atleast it seems I am doing fine against engi :-P
Dunno much about other classes, but besides Healing signet there are still allot of other builds from other classes that can very easy outplay warriors.
So not sure if its “ok” to nerf healing signet and don’t do something about these builds also..

SoulSin.5682:

More like you never died.

Your are fighting a build that sacrifices absolutely everything for survival. It would be strange if you could kill him alone.

?
except he can still kill me also with just 1 stat: condition power

But that’s just the way it is.. i have to deal with that?
the rock/scissor/paper idea? that how its supposed to be?

s/s longbow condi bunker warrior with hs, adrenal health, and banner regen
that needs a look at imo

nicknamenick.2437:

Dunno much about other classes, but besides Healing signet there are still allot of other builds from other classes that can very easy outplay warriors.
So not sure if its “ok” to nerf healing signet and don’t do something about these builds also..

The problem here is that healing signet is not a full build, it’s just a skill shared by almost any warrior build, some of them being better, or more annoying at least, than others.
Have you fought against a Healing/Toughness/Condition banner regen condi warrior? You probably would find it as much, if not even more, desperating as the TU Ranger.

…only going after engi huh, if you ever wvw against HoD I would very much enjoy dueling you. (I main engi)

Vargamonth.2047:

nicknamenick.2437:

Dunno much about other classes, but besides Healing signet there are still allot of other builds from other classes that can very easy outplay warriors.
So not sure if its “ok” to nerf healing signet and don’t do something about these builds also..

The problem here is that healing signet is not a full build, it’s just a skill shared by almost any warrior build, some of them being better, or more annoying at least, than others.
Have you fought against a Healing/Toughness/Condition banner regen condi warrior? You probably would find it as much, if not even more, desperating as the TU Ranger.

Yes i know condi bunker warr is also very annoying and heals a ton also..

But its because of those builds like condi bunker warrior we see so much QQ post about HS (HS is part of it) and so other berserker warrior builds will get the nerfs also soon… but those other berserker build issnt the OPness of warr but i do like it to be viable in this game..
But al i see is Condi bunker this, bunker that, condi condi condi condi. why cant they deal with that OPness?? is Anet that blind to see the OPness in condi bunkers? stacking just toughness/healingpower/condi power is just insane?? healing a Ton.. and still do insane damage..

The more i play this game and duel the more i am starting to hate the balance in this game..

Wanna play your build? sure but you suck against every meta build.

Wanna play meta build? no, ok get lost and deal with it.

that’s Guildwars… it sucks

Troll Ungent? Really?

1. It heals for only 340 HPS (52 less base HPS) without taking into account cast times- which, by the way, Ungent has and Signet doesn’t.

2. The nature of Ungent makes the healing skill far easier to reduce using poison than HealSig. For example, if I wanted to cut down a Ranger’s healing by, say, 1/6 (or half of 1/3), then I’d only need to apply 5s of poison during the 10s duration of this heal. On the other hand, to do the same thing to a warrior, I’d have to apply 12.5s of poison, on average, every 25 seconds.

3. Warriors get 3k more health, heavy armor, better damage coefficients, better healing overall (especially from Adrenal Health), and better condi cleanse than rangers get, which only further amplifies the power of HealSig as opposed to Ungent.

nicknamenick.2437:

Wanna play your build? sure but you suck against every meta build.

Wanna play meta build? no, ok get lost and deal with it.

that’s Guildwars… it sucks

Wrong.
You can play any build. But every build has Pros and Cons.

Also, randomly picking your stats and utility skills won’t make your build effective. If your build doesn’t have any kind of synergy, you are in trouble.

Arganthium.5638:

Troll Ungent? Really?

1. It heals for only 340 HPS (52 less base HPS) without taking into account cast times- which, by the way, Ungent has and Signet doesn’t.

2. The nature of Ungent makes the healing skill far easier to reduce using poison than HealSig. For example, if I wanted to cut down a Ranger’s healing by, say, 1/6 (or half of 1/3), then I’d only need to apply 5s of poison during the 10s duration of this heal. On the other hand, to do the same thing to a warrior, I’d have to apply 12.5s of poison, on average, every 25 seconds.

3. Warriors get 3k more health, heavy armor, better damage coefficients, better healing overall (especially from Adrenal Health), and better condi cleanse than rangers get, which only further amplifies the power of HealSig as opposed to Ungent.

Well its more the condi bunker style i think.

Btw:

1: True

2: yeah but i don’t have poison, rangers have a 10sec poison on 10sec cooldown.
So that’s why i keep getting poison.

3: mostly true, but they also have very good condi cleanse + protection.
And protection + medium or even light armor is still better compared to heavy without protection.

ensoriki.5789:

You can interrupt troll ungent.

Troll Ungent is meant to be used retroactive not retroactively (like Consume Conditions or other spike heals) of course you “can” interrupt it but you usually don’t/wont simply because its used at 75% HP or 50% HP and your not looking for heals to interrupt yet.

Not really detracting from the point here just adding my 2c

funny when warrior with HS are crying about heals of other classes.
what u decribe is probably a beastmaster..a tank build.
while u have a passive effect with 400 per second. while we use an active effect from ca. 800 hp/s plus our signet with max. 125.
u try to nerf a already nerfed ranger build because ur buffed everyone hates build or better u couldnt beat it. thats no arguement.

Indeed i cant beat that bunkerbuild.
If i try so hard there is zero chance for me to win vs them.

So thats how it should be? Dunno but i dont see any balance in that even if they spec for it. Because even when they spec for it so they wont die they can still kill me easy.

If you spec full bunker you should do low damage, but thats issnt true about condibunkers

So we moved from the heal being overpowered to it being a condi problem? Good to know since Condi Warrior is even more obscene than a condi Ranger.

To be fair spirit rangers can get 400-500 HPS with nature spirit, whatever sig regains health (i dont play ranger) and water spirit. The passive healing from nature spirit is close to HS, sure its not 100% up time but it last for 60 sec (longer than most duels)

nicknamenick.2437:

2: yeah but i don’t have poison, rangers have a 10sec poison on 10sec cooldown.
So that’s why i keep getting poison.

Sigil of Doom

Atherakhia.4086:

So we moved from the heal being overpowered to it being a condi problem? Good to know since Condi Warrior is even more obscene than a condi Ranger.

Agree :p

Well yeah i think the problem is more in being condi bunker. I think its OK to heal that amount but not in combination with the condi pressure.

so yeah i blamed that healing because its sick. But indeed the problem is condi still being very good in this build.

So essentially you fought a bunker who had stat-ed into regen and were then outraged than he could heal nearly as much as you (who hadnt boosted your healing at all)?

Ok.

The whole point of bunker builds it to stay up no matter what. Engis, guardian and warriors can all also build rediculous bunkers.

The reason people complain about HS and not other regens / heals is because HS requires 0 healing power, 0 traits, no casts time. You just pick it and you’re set for life, which is a problem. Theres nothing wrong with people building a build around bunkering down because they are investing a significant amount into achieving it.

There changed the title

Cufufalating.8479:

So essentially you fought a bunker who had stat-ed into regen and were then outraged than he could heal nearly as much as you (who hadnt boosted your healing at all)?

Ok.

The whole point of bunker builds it to stay up no matter what. Engis, guardian and warriors can all also build rediculous bunkers.

The reason people complain about HS and not other regens / heals is because HS requires 0 healing power, 0 traits, no casts time. You just pick it and you’re set for life, which is a problem. Theres nothing wrong with people building a build around bunkering down because they are investing a significant amount into achieving it.

Well HS on its own is that way bevause warr need it.
I dont get that many evades etc etc.
And yes i also said condibunker warr is just the same trolling build.

If you go bunker you shouldnt do that high damage.

The mechanic between ranger or warrior os totally different so lets keep that out of this discussion pls

For both classes its indeed sick they can do bunler and damage in 1 build.

I run zerker and yes i still got 400hps from HS but by no way you can say thats bunkerstyle.
It just gives a berserker warr just enough sustain it needs.

If you stack with banner heal or shout heal it becomes massive yeah. But normally you wouldnt do enough damage… But there comes condi and your done.. All in one

I disapprove these builds (any! So no not only rangers)

Please keep in mind that to achieve the (obscene) healing you currently have you literally have to spec ~nothing~ into it (which is what makes it obscene). Again as other people have stated, heavy heavy investment has gone into their survivability.

The sooner you realise you’re just not going to be able to trump this kind of build the better you’ll be as a player. Unless of course you switch up your build to counter something like this (which you haven’t done), but then you’ll be at a disadvantage over other specs.

But that’s the point.

The best way to win vs. a spec like this? Just run away. You’re playing the profession with the best mobility options, so just don’t even bother with them if it’s an issue. It’s like running from a PU Mesmer. This game is still about team play after-all.

So you used a FOTM Warrior build because you like to pwn easymode and then you came across a Ranger that played you for it? Is that how the scenario went?

Because I find it laughable that a Warrior (of all classes) would dare call a Ranger OP. No offense

Why don’t you look up your own condibunker warrior and be immortal as well in a 1v1? Not that this game was build with 1v1 in mind, but I see more and more people whining about losing duels and calling the other person OP because they couldn’t win.

I sincerely hope it has not come down to a select number of people in their private little sPvP clubhouses who want to dictate terms on game balance just by looking at things from a 1v1/2v2 perspective as the game was never built for that.

But for the OP, try another build. A zerker warrior is a very poor choice against a bunker ranger and you should have decided to break off the fight and not mindlessly continue when you could see that you were outmatched.

Rock-Paper-Scissors indeed. The Ranger was Rock and you were Scissors.

nicknamenick.2437:

Well HS on its own is that way bevause warr need it.
I dont get that many evades etc etc.

You do get blocks, endure pain and berserker stance though. As well as having higher HP and armour than anyone else. Theres no good reason why warriors NEED insane regen to survive more than any other class does.

nicknamenick.2437:

If you go bunker you shouldnt do that high damage.

Potentially true, but thats got nothing really to do with TU or rangers, almost every class can do the exact same thing.

nicknamenick.2437:

The mechanic between ranger or warrior os totally different so lets keep that out of this discussion pls

This whole topic is about warriors vs ranger… isnt it? Thats what the title and your OP says…

nicknamenick.2437:

I run zerker and yes i still got 400hps from HS but by no way you can say thats bunkerstyle.

The fact that a berserker warrior has more HP and regen than this bunker ranger probably did suggests otherwise.. but we’ll ignore that.

nicknamenick.2437:

I disapprove these builds (any! So no not only rangers)

Thats great and all, but dont then make a post acussing rangers of being OP if what you really mean to say is all condition bunkers are OP.

Cufufalating.8479:

nicknamenick.2437:

Well HS on its own is that way bevause warr need it.
I dont get that many evades etc etc.

You do get blocks, endure pain and berserker stance though. As well as having higher HP and armour than anyone else. Theres no good reason why warriors NEED insane regen to survive more than any other class does.

nicknamenick.2437:

If you go bunker you shouldnt do that high damage.

Potentially true, but thats got nothing really to do with TU or rangers, almost every class can do the exact same thing.

nicknamenick.2437:

The mechanic between ranger or warrior os totally different so lets keep that out of this discussion pls

This whole topic is about warriors vs ranger… isnt it? Thats what the title and your OP says…

nicknamenick.2437:

I run zerker and yes i still got 400hps from HS but by no way you can say thats bunkerstyle.

The fact that a berserker warrior has more HP and regen than this bunker ranger probably did suggests otherwise.. but we’ll ignore that.

nicknamenick.2437:

I disapprove these builds (any! So no not only rangers)

Thats great and all, but dont then make a post acussing rangers of being OP if what you really mean to say is all condition bunkers are OP.

Thats why i changed the title. And if you read the rest you find my answers

nicknamenick.2437:

Ok just did a duel against a ranger…. well he just NEVER died!!

Just stack:
condi power
toughness
healing power
And get troll unguent

He did 1000+ healing per second for 10sec.. on 25sec cooldown.
Ok he invest into it.. yeah I get that..

But I go full zerker and he just evade around (ALL THE TIME!! and stacking conditions), when I get him at 50% health he just heals back to full and repeat..

Well yeah I can pop berserker stance or endure pain or shield stance.. but after awhile that all on cooldown.. so after that we cant use evade skills all the time, we just eat it.. and he just keep evading around doing almost nothing but stacking condi and heal.

Warriors are OP, but that’s balance? ….

Lol you’re reaching. Warriors are op. that’s the tend of the statement and post. If you got beat by a regen ranger with a warrior it’s a l2p issue.

http://i.imgur.com/hFxaCeB.jpg

i hope that works
i just found that on reddit
just compare Hs passive without healpower with troll unguent and around 1500 healpower.
(HP in link means with HealPower)
rangers need to go full healpower to get healthpoints back like a warrior without healpower.
yes beastmaster are condi bunker and we shouldnt forget our dmg via pet
but warrior are enough bunker even they can skill as what they want.
dont forget bunker wars that can do too much dmg for bunkers.

stop trying to compare bm rangers with wars in general. thats just a discussion u cant win.

OP made me LOL

I can’t take him serious.

nicknamenick.2437:

If you go bunker you shouldnt do that high damage.

You can go power bunker and will probably do more damage then a condition bunker. Full Soldiers should give about 70% of the damage full Berserker. So yeah, maybe the berserker specialization is not optimal in an environment that has many bunker characters.

I run zerker and yes i still got 400hps from HS but by no way you can say thats bunkerstyle.

That is 6000HP over 15 seconds which happens to be the recharge of Withdraw, which doesn’t heal as much. Healing Signet is a very very strong skill for the healing slot.

I disapprove these builds (any! So no not only rangers)

They give you counterplay in a style you do not like, but you are not entitled to determine how they build and play their characters.

Old topic, already been told its cost some to make troll unguent that good..

About condibunkers, doesnt matter what you say to disagree with this but it will always be OP in duels.

Lol. OP “I rolled a warrior! I should be able to kill anything! If I can’t beat something, NERF IT TO THE GROUND!”
Omg, so funny. Poison, Interrupts, Stuns, Condition Cleanse, Vulnerability, many ways to deal with such a build. Unless of course your build contains none of these counters. In that case, you are your own worst enemy.

Read the topic because your just bumping this old topic now.