Illusionary Leap - Alternatives to bad change
+1
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
the only issue with ileap BEFORE anet decided to nerf iswap out of the blue
was simply pathing and other ai related issues on the clones leap
however now with the ability for the ileap clone to instantly be teleport to the target of the foe….with the restrictions of a 1 second time from using iswap most likely line of sight ect. those ai related issues should be mostly gone (i hope).
really this is more of a fix to the buggs than a buff. do not even bother to argue differently.
a instant teleport is almost non-noticeable at 600 distance or less. im not saying its bad. i am simply saying dont be this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURI6iDdbac
seriously you could hurt yourself…….
this change will make the skill more smooth and reliable. the increase in speed will only be at most a 10% increase. but still….no more bugs on ileap? lovly
however the skill is still…..usless even with the fix/buff to ileap.
this is simply because of the ninja nerf that anet decided to do to iswap that devastated this skills effectives and reduced the skill cap of this thing in to the ground….
ileap is still broken. simply because it can be countered by killing the clone!..
ileap DOES NOT deserve this kind of counter ability making it useless in a aoe/zerg/mid fight situations…which to the majority of non-leveling mesmers is over 90% of situations….even 1v1 the clone dies like a poped baloon from 1 autoattack or random aoe……
IF the clone had a invulnerable,evade buff, or simply immune to damage SO WE CAN use iswap then this skill would be were it needs to be.
personally i preferred it were we could simply use the skill to swap toward/to the location were the clone is/died. this made sure that we were able to actually use the skill albeit unless they dodged or the clones location be it dead or alive was altered by cc or being killed by a ranged attack or aoe before it reached its desired location(pre-nerf counter-ability).
it also allowed more uses(mobility) that other class’s can do with their leaps but on a much more restricted and player skill requiring level.
(other class’s can leap out of range of the target/without a target,no set up needed, ect)
uses that were creative and needed plenty of skill and timing to even be remotely useful.
the nerf to iswap made the primary function of the skill useless in the majority of non pointless smale scale situations, and it eliminated the other use’s such as mobility which again other class’s can do with their leaps with fewer restrictions and far more effectively and easily.
it also dumbed down the skills usage so that it had a single usable use that does not work half of the time.
iswap is very simply : a 600 in game units teleport toward/to the clones location. WITH a very short window of 4 seconds after using ileap.
what difference does it make if the clone is dead? we had to be in range OF a target to even use the skill, the duration of the time that we are able to teleport to the clone be it alive or dead is exactly the same. in fact the skills total effectiveness is HIGHER if the clone is alive because it will home in on the target.
from a balance perspective the nerf imbalanced the skill by making it usless in most situations and and reduced the skillcap on it dramatically by forcing us to spam ileap right in to iswap instead of timed swaps and strategy.. begging the question “why?”
if it was because….of the tool tip saying “swap to clone”
and they thought “it is ridiculous for Mesmer’s to be able to swap to the location of a dead clone. a dead clone who’s summon had the restriction of needing to have a target and be in a very short range, AND having a very short window to actually swap to after using ileap”
then by that very same logic!
all leaps that have a tool tip saying “leap to your foe” or any equivalent in meaning
should be “fixed” so that they match their tool tip by having the requirement of needing a target!
example: thief’s heart seeker. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker
“Leap and strike your foe.”
it specifically states that the skill should leap and strike a foe
so is it not ridiculousness that a thief should be able to leap and strike at….nothing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvSrBYCZLgs
or for a warrior to dash( “Charge your foe”) away from a opponent?
oh i know they have secondary effects that everyone uses. such as running away or using it to spam combo finishers. mesmer had a 2nd effect to their leap as well…..
only it needed skill and not spamming with tons of restrictions that i am not even applying to these leaps
(edited by Chaos.3579)
A. They never did a “nerf”. We all now they fixed a bug, and it makes perfect sense to be required to have a a close to swap with.
B. The fact that the clone could be killed so easily was indeed problematic.
C. Comical that the first 2 post are thieves complaining that another profession has a skill they feel isn’t strongly telegraphed enough. What telegraph do we see from stealth ed thieves?
D. With rush, bull charge, swoop, leap of faith, and other gap closers, it makes sense that a melee weapon for the mesmer exist.
E. The immobilization is over powered at the end considering the fact that it open one up to entirely too much burst with one single condition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
Just revert the skill to what it was before they did the bug fix/nerf.
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
A. They never did a “nerf”. We all now they fixed a bug, and it makes perfect sense to be required to have a a close to swap with.
B. The fact that the clone could be killed so easily was indeed problematic.
C. Comical that the first 2 post are thieves complaining that another profession has a skill they feel isn’t strongly telegraphed enough. What telegraph do we see from stealth ed thieves?
D. With rush, bull charge, swoop, leap of faith, and other gap closers, it makes sense that a melee weapon for the mesmer exist.
E. The immobilization is over powered at the end considering the fact that it open one up to entirely too much burst with one single condition.
A)yes it was a nerf. NO OTHER LEAP IN THE GAME CAN BE STOPED FROM DPS. thats like stopping a thiefs heart seeker mid caste by doing a auto attack. its a massive shut down of functionality
B) yes it is. but only because of what anet did to iswap. balance wise the skill was perfectly balanced. it had tons of restrictions,and counter ability from a highly telegraphed leap and the ability to displace the location of the swap by ccing/killing the clone before it reaches its desired location.
however i would have NO issue if anet made the clone summoned immune to damage for 4 sec during and after its summon.
C) yes that is comical
D) that does not make any sense whatsoever…
my point was that
{"If its idiotic for mesmers to teleport to a dead clones location because of the words “swap with clone” in its tool tip. then it is also idiotic for any leap bearing the words “leap at foe” (or any equivalent) in its tool tip to leap at nothing!"}
E) that is highly debatable. although between you and me other class’s can do much more burst after a immobilize or lockdown application(war,thief,burstguardian,ele with a knockdown.ect)
Just revert the skill to what it was before they did the bug fix/nerf.
this and keep the new changes to ileap so that the skill is no longer a ai bugged piece of crap(its not that big of a buff considering the range target requirement ect)
= anet finnally did a good job with a mesmer functionality change. BRAVO!
(edited by Chaos.3579)
Just revert the skill to what it was before they did the bug fix/nerf.
I would agree with this but it’s still head-in-the-sand because the skill had tremendous issues even before the nerf. I do agree with ANet and others that it needs some kind of attention, I just think this is the wrong way to go about it.
Just revert the skill to what it was before they did the bug fix/nerf.
I would agree with this but it’s still head-in-the-sand because the skill had tremendous issues even before the nerf. I do agree with ANet and others that it needs some kind of attention, I just think this is the wrong way to go about it.
what issues besides the buggs with the ai from the leaping part i ileap?
which are (should) be tottaly fixed by the new change coming to ileap
No. It certainly was a bug before. You can bury your head in the sand all you like Chaos, it does not change the fact that the profession functions in conjuction with clones, and has no business bypassing clones for it.
As far as your comment about gap closers, I agree. Feel free to look at my post history and see how I have lobbied to have them require a target in range so that they cannot be exploited as general mobility or escapes. (At least in the context of weapons skills. I do not feel utility skill should require a target)…… What actually makes no sense is claiming you deserve to swap with a clone that doesn’t exist, when there are better and more thematically accurate solutuoms. Such as 2s of invulnerability on the clone. 4s is too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
The whole skill just needs scrapping. If the AI pathing cannot be fixed it needs to be rethought entirely.
Because as it is, the change coming now merely sorta-reenables us to do what we could do before in slightly more reliable. But it also moves it into the frankly pretty meh territory of super-reliable warrior/thief skills where your only way to counter them is to stop caring about the classes ever seeing balance.
I didn’t like the clone getting stuck on ~everything. But, given that I could still swap with the dead clone, it was soooooooooooorta acceptable. Long-o on purpose.
Now the new version is acceptable in that I can swap perfectly. But I don’t like the loss of identity behind it. I liked the idea of the clone charging the target compared to that stupid oaf of a warrior who just charged by himself.
Even if there was no counter play to it (which there is) you can still out play your opponent by anticipation.
Counter builds are more common than countering individual skills, and a lot of the meta with the abundance of no risk/good reward builds running around can out last most shatters on point. Shatter mesmers usually need to land up wards of two mind wracks plus diversion and cry of confusion for added DPS to finish the job against ONE opponet. Right now it’s WAY to easy to avoid with how predictable it is, to the point where most competitive mesmers don’t even run sword anymore, and that’s considering you do less dmg than a thief who can burst virtually instantly with no tell.
Even if this skill is being buffed there is still a lot of play in a 1v1 and the mesmer is still going to lose the point even if he wins. The only class that should be complaining is thieves since now they are going to have a harder time keeping up with the set up, Which is a lot more “Counter play” than what is (used to be) a counter to shatter.
Also if we are going to talk about fairness in design Pistol whip still hits harder and is pretty much shatter mes, with less set up and more damage, and more frequent burst, and no clone travel time.
Mes is bottom tier right now, and I doubt it will change after the 9th but if this is the buff that is needed to bring them on par with the rest of the game then there is really no problem, it’s going to make them more effective in a fight without being game breaking.
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
(edited by Daishi.6027)
ANet realized that by “fixing” iLeap, they broke it beyond usefulness.
ANet can’t fix the broken AI, going back to the old iLeap would be a bandaid.
ANet does the only thing that will make iLeap work (which I posted monthes ago), the skill will finally work as intended.
People should just get over the fact, that a profession using a melee weapon gets a working gap closer. They act like iLeap is something totally new and mindblowing overpowered.
Which it is not. If I just got one copper for every tear shared of some random pvpers over mesmer changes, I would be the richest player in the game.
“Mesmers get a broken skill fixed, burn down ANet!”
I say, if ANet ever manages to fix the illusions AI, we can change the skill back to how it is now. Until then we keep the new iLeap.
Which means forever btw.
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
(edited by Kaiyanwan.8521)
ANet realized that by “fixing” iLeap, they broke it beyond usefulness.
ANet can’t fix the broken AI, going back to the old iLeap would be a bandaid.
ANet does the only thing that will make iLeap work (which I posted monthes ago), the skill will finally work as intended.
People should just get over the fact, that a profession using a melee weapon gets a working gap closer. They act like iLeap is something totally new and mindblowing overpowered.
Which it is not. If I just got one copper for every tear shared of some random pvpers over mesmer changes, I would be the richest player in the game.
“Mesmers get a broken skill fixed, burn down ANet!”
I say, if ANet ever manages to fix the illusions AI, we can change the skill back to how it is now. Until then we keep the new iLeap.
Which means forever btw.
the teleporting to the target fixes the issue with ileap reliability. however iswap is still useless because the clone can be killed by a single auto attack.
IF the ileap clone was given 4 sec of immunity to damage or a much much higher hp pool. the skill would be perfect.
ANet realized that by “fixing” iLeap, they broke it beyond usefulness.
ANet can’t fix the broken AI, going back to the old iLeap would be a bandaid.
ANet does the only thing that will make iLeap work (which I posted monthes ago), the skill will finally work as intended.
People should just get over the fact, that a profession using a melee weapon gets a working gap closer. They act like iLeap is something totally new and mindblowing overpowered.
Which it is not. If I just got one copper for every tear shared of some random pvpers over mesmer changes, I would be the richest player in the game.
“Mesmers get a broken skill fixed, burn down ANet!”
I say, if ANet ever manages to fix the illusions AI, we can change the skill back to how it is now. Until then we keep the new iLeap.
Which means forever btw.
the teleporting to the target fixes the issue with ileap reliability. however iswap is still useless because the clone can be killed by a single auto attack.
IF the ileap clone was given 4 sec of immunity to damage or a much much higher hp pool. the skill would be perfect.
How about, the mesmer is ported to the target and a clone is created at his former position, pretty much the other way around.
You can port to the clone’s position if you want, but in the end, the gap closer would close the gap in the first place.
Of course the clone is a melee clone going straight for the target, which would offer some nice in and out and back in gameplay for the mesmer, but wow, we do not want to ask for too much mental creativity at ANet.
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
I actually agree the skill was more interesting as it is now (pre-buff), but the simple fact is Anet cant/wont fix the clone pathing issues which really screw up the ability. So, with that in mind, this seems the only way to actually make the skill work reliable.
If they were able to completel fix that pathing so that it never failed then I’d be all for that and keeping the skill as it is.. but until then.. this buff is needed.
Gunnar’s Hold
A. They never did a “nerf”. We all now they fixed a bug, and it makes perfect sense to be required to have a a close to swap with.
B. The fact that the clone could be killed so easily was indeed problematic.
C. Comical that the first 2 post are thieves complaining that another profession has a skill they feel isn’t strongly telegraphed enough. What telegraph do we see from stealth ed thieves?
D. With rush, bull charge, swoop, leap of faith, and other gap closers, it makes sense that a melee weapon for the mesmer exist.
E. The immobilization is over powered at the end considering the fact that it open one up to entirely too much burst with one single condition.
A. No argument there, need something there to swap to for it to make sense.
B. Yes it was, but the pathing was a majority of the issue tied to the occasional wall teleport.
C. You have stealth too, tell me what is telegraphed about your stealth combos? Don’t look at similar skills so plainly, there is more to ileap→ swap and the Mesmer in general for it being telegraphed.
D. Don’t really see where this applies except wvw where you get the occasional critter to target. Even then its only a 600 range cast. For pvp, a fleeing target is a victory for you since there are no points for narrow escapes.
E. And that is why I find it unfair if they go ahead with the skill bar changes. Its a 2 second base AoE immobilize, swap is a stun breaker (funny how Mesmer retained their #2 stun breaker on sword and thief’s was removed and given a cast time).
What they should do is for the sake of a band aid, keep the clone porting near the target but give it some distance and disable swap unless the clone has hit a target. That way you can spot the finger being pointed at you and expect an incoming leaping clone to dodge it, and therefore avoid a rather nasty burst which comes out on a rather short cooldown.
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
You’ll see the mesmer point at you and a clone will appear nearby. I don’t see the problem with this change; you’ll just have to react a little more quickly.
You have stealth too, tell me what is telegraphed about your stealth combos? Don’t look at similar skills so plainly, there is more to ileap-> swap and the Mesmer in general for it being telegraphed.
I do? What am I David Copperfield? Unlike yourself, I have leveled all 8 profession a very long time ago. I am speaking with my experience across the board. My comment was expressing how clearly bias from a thief perspective, that your comments were.
You’ll see the mesmer point at you and a clone will appear nearby. I don’t see the problem with this change; you’ll just have to react a little more quickly.
I think what most peoples problem with it is, that this clone will immobilize you and limit your reaction option very much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
(edited by coglin.1867)
I think what most peoples problem with it is, that this clone will immobilize you and limit your reaction option very much.
The clone will only cripple you. The immobilize is done by Swap.
Equinox [EqnX]
Riverside[DE]
I think what most peoples problem with it is, that this clone will immobilize you and limit your reaction option very much.
The clone will only cripple you. The immobilize is done by Swap.
Bah, I new that, and said that in another thread, or maybe even this one previously. Thanks for correcting my mistake.
The problem I meant, was that is they can swap instantly after they spawn the clone, you will be immobilized. Causing a problem with too easy of a burst to set up. Other professions have a travel time or what not. If there is any type of delay what so ever though, it won’t be a problem. So basically everyone is going bat shoot crazy over something they haven’t even experienced yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
I’m not so sure about the instant swap.
The clone in the stream still spawned on a range that was like ~200 units away from the targed and rushed from there. If the targed is moving this skill will be much easier to dodge than expected here.
I’m curious about the skill behaving on fast enemys.
I guess it will still perform the same crappy leap it does right now but will just spawn near the target.
That means: If used on a target that instantly teleports away some yards I suppose that the clone will just leap after the target.
Equinox [EqnX]
Riverside[DE]