Guild Wars 2

So why do I think its OP?

1. First off, immobilized acts like a stun.
You may not have noticed this. But as you get immobilized, many skills with cast times will not cast untill you repeatedly smash the button. For example; Withdraw and Roll for Initiative should remove immobilized and roll you backward. But due to its late and irresponsive behaviour, it can somtimes get you killed.
Only untill half, maybe 1 second has passed. Your skill will activate, and you will (maybe) be freed of immobilized.

2. You can’t stunbreak, because its not a stun.
This may sound weird, but as this skill feels like a stun (especially when your skills do not react and there’s a lot of particles on the screen). You may hit your stunbreak, and nothing happens. I know many experienced players may have gotten used to its animation but it still isn’t quite right.

3. Can’t dodge.
You are totally rooted into whatever AoE you are standing.

4. Its easy to apply.
Speaks all for itself.

5. Hard counters professions with few condition cleanses, and skills like Pistol Whip.
This is a (VIDEO) of how skills may get wasted due to immobilized condition.

6. It can be stacked.
Due to a change in this mechanic, everyone can now freely (SPAM) this condition.

Just watch the video’s if you are too tired to read:
(PISTOL WHIP CANCELLED)
(STUCK FOR 21 SECONDS)

i had a long reply written, but i accidentally clicked one of your (VIDEOS) and lost it.

but it boils down to “no it’s not, and your first problem is due to lag”.

We know immobilization is OP, just that the balance team fails to understand that.

Just be happy the balance team knows blind is OP.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i had a long reply written, but i accidentally clicked one of your (VIDEOS) and lost it.

but it boils down to “no it’s not, and your first problem is due to lag”.

I honestly believe it has nothing to do with lagg.

When I activate Withdraw without being immobilized, it responds immediately.
When I’m immobilized, it sort if ignores the first few button presses. Like my character is pondering wheter to really Withdraw or not. And after the 3 somtimes 4th press, my character withdraws.

So why do you think its not OP. I mean without stacking it was sort of okay.. But now.

As Bruno said your main problem is due to lag & or you having graphics set too high for your computer to handle.

I run a monster of a machine and do not have problems with skills going off late like you described.

As for not being able to dodge it makes sense you are after all rooted
For being easy to apply, no most classes have a decent cool down on any ability that applies it. The only exception I can think of to that would be a warrior with the leg specialist trait.

As for your problem of not being able to cleanse it, try using sigil of generosity & or purity with skills like shadows embrace. I run all 3 on my thief and still pump out a ton of damage.

I’m unfamiliar with playing a thief but that first video looked like a bug rather than an intended mechanic of immobilize, which doesn’t mean it’s op (just that it’s buggy which is a valid complaint)

the second video is just clever chaining on a 1vX. you can do that with fear even if they have stunbreakers, or basilisk venom, or spam knockbacks… if one close could, without counter, immob for 20 seconds, then sure, it’d be op. but that’s 3(?) people immobilizing one person. (minor edit: also, it didn’t seem like they were doing much damage which would suggest they were focusing on immobilizing)

along with that, immobilize is a condition and can be cleansed, along with certain skills breaking immobilize. (on my ranger I can break/cleanse immobilize a total of 5 times in a row)

second minor edit: and as ragnar said, there aren’t a huge amount of extended immobilizes out there either. (0-2 weapon skills, generally just a few seconds, 0-2 utilities/elites, generally just a few seconds)

Hmm graphics or lagg aren’t a problem, got an Nvidia 780gtx, i7 myself with a great connection.

Maybe I should record it instead to give everyone a better impression.

Its indeed a combination of all these things together that makes it feel overwelming compared to other cc’s.

stuns cant be cleanseed, immob can

immob doesnt let u use skills if u get immobed during a jump in my experience, usually fine

i know exactly what you’re talking about with withdraw and roll for initiative, but it’s a problem i haven’t had since they added a patch note about the skill cleansing immobilize at the start of it.

my thief uses roll for ini as his stunbreak (since it’s also conveniently an immob break), i’d know if i had to mash it to make it work.

I had this problem in EB today again.

Got immobilized,
I was stuck in mid air, literally smashing my heal button. Withdraw (which recovers immobilize). And guess what…

After 5 seconds of spamming only my heal, I died being immobilized.

I should’ve recorded it. Its just too bad I have nothing to back this up.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I had this problem in EB today again.

Got immobilized,
I was stuck in mid air, literally smashing my heal button. Withdraw (which recovers immobilize). And guess what…

After 5 seconds of spamming only my heal, I died being immobilized.

I should’ve recorded it. Its just too bad I have nothing to back this up.

your problem is being stuck in midair. stop jumping around.

midair immobilize won’t let you cast any skills because you can’t cast skills in midair. allegedly the solution is to use /dance, but i never tried it myself.

Funny thing about Oozo’s video
It was before they reduced the amount of times immob could be stacked

Time of the video: immob could be stacked 5 times
Now it’s only 3 times

I don’t agree or disagree, just letting you know

@ BrunoBRS: Yeah I know this right.
So you think instead of fixing this bug, players should just not touch their jump button?

@ Acotje: You know how this mechanic works right?
If you have 3 stacks on you, and the first one expires. Foes can just place another stack on top of you again. So you could theoretically chain immobilize someone infinitely.
But it doesn’t really matter how many times Immobilize is stacking. I think the majority op players think that Immobilize stacking is a lame mechanic. In this buggy state, 2 times, 3 times or 5 times. Its in my opinion the best video to show off how lame it really is.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Immobilize-Stacking/first#post4260741

The immobilize bug that mainly happing when you are interrupted while perform a skill(quite common with ports) and immobilize conditions are 2 different things. If you get stuck by the bug any emote will free you.

Hmm in my experience immobilize hasn’t been a problem. Sure, there have been times when it got me killed, but no more than any other mechanic.

Of course, I mostly play my diamond skin Ele so usually whenever people try to immobilize me I just laugh at them wasting their cool downs and then go blow em up.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

@ BrunoBRS: Yeah I know this right.
So you think instead of fixing this bug, players should just not touch their jump button?

seeing as jumping does kitten all during combat, yeah. jumping in fact hinders your combat, because it affects your use of skills (regardless of immobilize, you can’t use skills in midair), and it doesn’t give you any evasive advantage, as the hitbox and projectile pathfinding will ignore your hops.

only reason you’d jump in combat would be to climb a certain structure to LOS the enemy or run away from them.

Regardless of jumping, the way immobilization currently works is the fault, and not players who jump (or jumpdodge almost always, like myself). Immobilizy simply has to be reworked to not freeze a player´s current ongoing animation. That includes jump-, movement-, precast- and aftercast animations. Currently exactly that keeps messing with the responsiveness of INSTANT skills like Withdraw and many other skills. Even teleports refuse to activate. When you play a squishy profession / build, skills activating whenever you need them is detrimental.

But its not immobilize alone. Its the general clunkiness of pre- and aftercast animations. Skills like S/D thief #2 and #3, Withdraw, Roll For Initiative should take priority over any other currently running skill / animation and interrupt them. Its impossible to properly time SB #3 or S/D #3 because of this when even the auto attack has cast time and aftercast animations. The worst scenario in WvW is trying to shadowstep- or shortbow-stomp. When you do this and just port back to your victim when the stomp lands, and your victim happens to be revived in the meantime, then you are stuck. So many times i tried to interrupt a stomp because i needed to heal and so many times i died because it simply didnt work.

This all plays into the same region of issues and i´d bet if the engine wasnt so god awful clunky in this regard then immobilize won´t be bugged and working like a interrupt.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Immobilizy simply has to be reworked to not freeze a player´s current ongoing animation.

Why? Why should a skill that immobilizes you be reworked not to fully immobilize you? Why should they rework the game around players that want to bunny hop and bunny hop+ dodge?

TheBandicoot.5294:

Regardless of jumping, the way immobilization currently works is the fault, and not players who jump (or jumpdodge almost always, like myself). Immobilizy simply has to be reworked to not freeze a player´s current ongoing animation. That includes jump-, movement-, precast- and aftercast animations. Currently exactly that keeps messing with the responsiveness of INSTANT skills like Withdraw and many other skills. Even teleports refuse to activate. When you play a squishy profession / build, skills activating whenever you need them is detrimental.

But its not immobilize alone. Its the general clunkiness of pre- and aftercast animations. Skills like S/D thief #2 and #3, Withdraw, Roll For Initiative should take priority over any other currently running skill / animation and interrupt them. Its impossible to properly time SB #3 or S/D #3 because of this when even the auto attack has cast time and aftercast animations. The worst scenario in WvW is trying to shadowstep- or shortbow-stomp. When you do this and just port back to your victim when the stomp lands, and your victim happens to be revived in the meantime, then you are stuck. So many times i tried to interrupt a stomp because i needed to heal and so many times i died because it simply didnt work.

This all plays into the same region of issues and i´d bet if the engine wasnt so god awful clunky in this regard then immobilize won´t be bugged and working like a interrupt.

while i agree that getting stuck in animations is a pretty annoying issue, most cases (especially combat animations), it’s a connection problem, rather than something wrong with the game itself. i don’t have the smoothest of connections (i reckon my ping is on the ~200 range), and i can’t remember the last time i was stuck in an animation or immobilize bug, save for WvW building bugs and that obnoxious “try to pick up a bundle while walking and get locked out of your weapon skills” bug.

as someone that almost exclusively plays thief in competitive scenarios, i know very much the importance of getting rid of soft CC to survive, but i have yet to have an issue with roll for initiative cleansing immobilize smoothly since they added a patch note that made it instantly cleanse the conditions before the roll animation even started. shadowsteps also haven’t failed me because of immobilize (heck, roaming around all those canyon spiders on living story is made much easier when i can just shrug off their spamming immobilize)

vincecontix.1264:

If you get stuck by the bug any emote will free you.

Have you heard that some players have typed /dance in their chat, just in case they get stuck. So they just hit Enter Enter really quick to break out of this bug? Funny huh that its come to this after a couple of years with this bug around.

BrunoBRS.5178:

seeing as jumping does kitten all during combat, yeah. jumping in fact hinders your combat, because it affects your use of skills (regardless of immobilize, you can’t use skills in midair), and it doesn’t give you any evasive advantage, as the hitbox and projectile pathfinding will ignore your hops.

I’m sorry to say, some of these statements are not true:

• Projectiles in fact follow the Z-axis, so jumping or jump dodging will make projectiles fly in the air!
• Jump dodging increases the distance you can dodge or jump to another obstacle so its very commonly used.
• If you use a skill before you jump, it will go off in mid air. Its been used to fire arrows over fences or rocks.
• And here you one of the main reasons why you DO actually use jump in combat posted by yourself!
  [quote=4263608;BrunoBRS.5178:]
  only reason you’d jump in combat would be to climb a certain structure to LOS the enemy or run away from them.[/quote]

And this guy here nailed it down pretty much: +1

TheBandicoot.5294:

Regardless of jumping, the way immobilization currently works is the fault, and not players who jump (or jumpdodge almost always, like myself). Immobilizy simply has to be reworked to not freeze a player´s current ongoing animation. That includes jump-, movement-, precast- and aftercast animations. Currently exactly that keeps messing with the responsiveness of INSTANT skills like Withdraw and many other skills. Even teleports refuse to activate. When you play a squishy profession / build, skills activating whenever you need them is detrimental.

But its not immobilize alone. Its the general clunkiness of pre- and aftercast animations. Skills like S/D thief #2 and #3, Withdraw, Roll For Initiative should take priority over any other currently running skill / animation and interrupt them. Its impossible to properly time SB #3 or S/D #3 because of this when even the auto attack has cast time and aftercast animations. The worst scenario in WvW is trying to shadowstep- or shortbow-stomp. When you do this and just port back to your victim when the stomp lands, and your victim happens to be revived in the meantime, then you are stuck. So many times i tried to interrupt a stomp because i needed to heal and so many times i died because it simply didnt work.

This all plays into the same region of issues and i´d bet if the engine wasnt so god awful clunky in this regard then immobilize won´t be bugged and working like a interrupt.

And of course some other bugs related to thief skills: Link

IMHO you should be able to turn while immobilized. Few reasons

1. Reduces the stun factor. You can turn around and avoid certain effects like backstabs and flanking and stuff.
2. Desync will put Entangling Roots behind you, making them unattackable if your latency is too high

coglin.1867:

Why? Why should a skill that immobilizes you be reworked not to fully immobilize you? Why should they rework the game around players that want to bunny hop and bunny hop+ dodge?

First, i don´t bunnyhop. Hated it in WoW because it did nothing but look annyoing. I do dodgejump in GW2 because of several reasons. More often than not a flat terrain isn’t exactly flat, i get stuck on small stones or debris when dodging. Since dodging itself doesnt lift you up, you dodge in place and thats bullkitten happening because of programming incomtetence – yes i know that sounds harsh and rude, but as it seems ArenaNet doesn’t care. Those very same hiccups in flat terrain also cause teleports to malfunction, and they refused to work on this issue since the first closed beta weekends i witnessed. Second, read my post again. Being immobilized during jumping is one out of five problems with immobilize. I dont want it to change because of my slinky-like combat style but because its actual bugs and glitches which have to be squashed ASAP.

I´m perfectly fine with not being able to turn during being immobilized as thats part of being immobilized. But as i stated in my previous post, the game stops all animations. Wouldn’t be so bad if the game would actually register an animation being stopped and allow for new actions to be done. But it registers an animation simply never ending, thus not allowing a new action to be done.

Also, what another guy mentioned – i am almost 100% sure that this ain´t related to latency. While i regularily have lags ONLY inside GW2 because of my stupid kittening ISP (Telekom, Germany – you most likely know what i mean when you have them) and have to use Pingzapper in order to get rid of those lags, its very unlikely that i always lag when being immobilized. Its always when aftercast animations or casting priority messes with me, forcing Withdraw, Roll For Initiative or Flanking Strike to flicker for .5 to 1 second before they activate. This issue causes me to lose alot of duels, causes me to fail emergency escape from an approaching zerg and also makes me unable to solo Lupicus even when my connection is proven to be 100% stable. A bad latency would cause ALL skills to blink for some time before they activate, and not just instant skills in certain situations.

It may also very well be the case that i´m overreacting. Maybe the general MMO player doesnt even notice it and is used to it, without wanting to insult anyone. But i´m coming from the shooter genre (Battlefield, Call of Duty, Unreal Tournament) and i even notice when my screen reaction time is just 50ms slower than usual because i forgot to put my HDTV into game mode. Thus i always notice a skill not activating when it should and it makes me go all green and hulk. Without the powers, sadly.

If you compare some conditions (crippled, fear & chilled) to immobilize, you will soon realize the advantages of immobilize. In my opinion Immobilized should be cleansed by stun breaks just as condition cleanses. Just like:
Fear is notable in that it also counts as a control effect, meaning it can be cleared by both condition removal as well as stun breaks

I think you a little off about cleansing immobilize. There are several skills that only cleanse immobilize, and several traits/skills that remove immobilize, chill, and cripple. Pure condition cleanses are not the only way to remove them.

Why do you have a vid from 2013?

And why was this dude complaining about a 3 v 1 with venom share?

Why did a necro let conditions stack on him like that?

Like… dont necro’s have some of the best condi clears around?

More importantly. Why do people think they should have an easy time in X v 1?

You completely missed the entire point of this thread, Solori. Its not about a guy moaning that he should be able to engange and win 1v3 reliably. Its about pointing out the current broken state the condition “immobilize” is in. Because of the bugs and glitches involved with it anyone with ample access to this condition basicly uses a wide array of bugs to his advantage, without wanting it of course.

The point of this thread is to finally get a red post from a developer, even if it just contains “When It’s Ready”. At least it´d shw us they´re working on it. SO far they seem to ignore it, which is a shame seeing how gamebreaking immobilize can be. Its only intend is to immobilize you, not to get you stuck or make skills react clunky.

TheBandicoot.5294:

You completely missed the entire point of this thread, Solori. Its not about a guy moaning…

This ^

TheBandicoot.5294:

You completely missed the entire point of this thread, Solori. Its not about a guy moaning that he should be able to engange and win 1v3 reliably. Its about pointing out the current broken state the condition “immobilize” is in.

Perhaps you miss the point. You have the nerve to claim he missed it and use the term “current”? Then mock him for asking a very relevant question, why you are using a video that is over a year old, to make a claim of a “current” problem.

As I see it, if you are trying to exploit aspect of jumping unnecessarily while in combat, and you are well aware that you have limitation on skill use while in the air, combined with the knowledge that you can be immobilized in the air, then it seems to me, that you are putting yourself in a high risk situation intentionally, and demanding they change the game so that you make exploit jumping in combat.

Personally I feel if you get immobilized, then you need to be immobilized precisely where you are and in the position you are in. Which is exactly what happens. As I see it, they simply need to fix the jump dodge so that it cannot be exploited. Not change how immobilize functions.

I’ve definitely absolutely noticed the immob bug when playing as a S/D thief. When you get immob’d you expect to INSTANTLY be able to withdraw away but there is ALWAYS a slight delay, It’s definitely glitchy.

From the “feeling” of the bug, I think it is working like this;

1. I am targeting an enemy, e.g Sword 3

2. I got immob’d a split second before I am bout to cast.

3. The sword 3 action is cancelled, due to it being similar to a leap, but I must still wait for the time duration of the animation itself to end before being able to do anything else.

4. After about half a second, the time window for the cancelled skill is complete, and I am able to withdraw

I guess the best way to test if this bug is legit would be to cast immob on a character that has a gap closer with a long cast time and see what happens.

Coglin, yes i use the term “current”. Because the immobilization condition never got a change in its mechanic. My point thus still stands – the bugs with it exist in the very same form and situation for almost 2 years now, not counting beta phase because thats were it should have been resorted.

Also you did not read my former post. I said i do not jump unnecessarily in combat. I do dodgejump, which is just evading while jumping, thus i cannot get immobilized midair. Also, before you jump onto that, the dodgejump itself has been semi-approved by the developers themselves when they brought us the Super Adventure Box. It was given as a tip for jumps with literally 5% more range. Would they do that if it was an exploit? No they won´t.

And even if the dodgejump was an exploit – i also wrote that getting immobilized midair for whatever reason is one (1) out of five (5) resons why immobilize causes stuck-bugs. So four reasons alone are not enough to justify a much needed mechanical change of how this condition works? You seem delusional to me, to be honest, much like if you simply cannot dodgejump and therefore hate others for doing it.

Immob shouldn’t stack. Also stunned target should be immune to any forms of stun.