Guild Wars 2

Okay, okay, let’s just say that during the four days between the Skill Bar Segment and the actual Patch, the devs are not only working hard to finish implementing and rounding off the changes, but also looking at feedback, running the numbers, tweaking things, rounding them off, and changing them, then going to the drawing board to see why the feedback was there.

Now, let’s remember that the four days between the Skill Bar and the Patch include Saturday and Sunday.

So unless the balance team wants to pull an weekend retreat at the office, I highly doubt the Necro and Guardian feedback are going to account for much.

@Mark Katzbach, doing a system based on how “Karl feels” is a really bad idea. It’s not that I don’t care how Karl feels (because I really don’t, sorry), but there are reasons for placement. Someone going first shouldn’t be getting minor changes to their skills and actions and someone going last shouldn’t be requiring a lot of major changes.

Additionally, as people have pointed out, you shouldn’t be doing this feedback checking after sign-ups for a Tournament, nor should you be doing it right before a patch. It really makes it seem like you were sloppy and only caring about showing your playerbase that you were actually doing something, when you weren’t.

That’s not to say that you weren’t doing anything, but that’s what it looks like, which is why it’s sloppy. Remember the WvW threads where people would get little feedback and tidbits of potential upcoming changes? It kept people interested in the direction the game was going, along with giving feedback as to how they thought it would break or balance the game.

I think that’s what feedback is about, not a last minute: “OH HEY GUIZ, HERE’S A PATCH, WE’RE NOT SURE IF THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED, WHADYA THUNK ’BOUT IT?!”

I just feel like this entire ordeal is sloppy and too player-reliant without actually giving the players a chance to give feedback. For example, with the Warriors, I highly doubt anything is going to be changed off of what was said in the Skill Bar, scaling might change slightly, but we never looked at that, anyways. All of the feedback on the Warrior forum was therefore useless, and that profession could have been done last. If any changes are going to be made, it’s most likely going to be in reverting a change or “unnerfing” one of the potential nerfs, which is also fine if you’re going to only do that as a last minute thing.

For Necromancer and Elementalist, people should be preparing to know what they are going to get changed around because they have very fluid builds and setups. If you suddenly drop a bomb on them, it’s going to hit them hard. The Warrior got no such bomb, and therefore should have been towards the end. (Actually, the Warrior did get a bomb, which was Adrenalin decay and missing a Burst, but those are QoL nerfs that almost every other profession has been hit with in year 1 of balance.)

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Not if you do it right, there should be no ants left then.

If you are doing something, do it right, just an example for you to think about.

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Depends how you destroy it. Collapse it? Yeah, new one will be built. Flood it with molten aluminum? Not so much.

Axialbloom.8109:

Agreed. Our feedback will be (even more) meaningless for the last 2 professions at this rate.

I don’t think they are looking for feedback. If they did, they wouldn’t have buffed turret engi.

Look I don’t really understand whats happening behind the anet curtain of darkness. But I think we can agree that necro’s have been a tad underplayed and for good reasons. Maybe there is some truth behind some lack of necro-dev specialist and would explain much of the discombobulated tweaks to the class. For example, I’m generally more inspired to think about what necro’s could use because.. I like necromancers lol.

But whatever changes they make we’ll have to work around them. There’s even discord among the necromancer community itself for what necromancers are in need of. The dev’s (in retrospect) try to adhere to the issues that stand out.

I understand where bawb is coming from, it’s a bit disheartening to know that even IF there was a slight chance that the necromancer community might have had to have a say in what they may feel is a more sensible approach (like the Enfeeble example), that chance has significantly decreased.

And I think if anyone is to be blamed for the conception of how necro’s are “whiny” its me lol; not spoj or bawb. I can get rage-aholic about some of my own experiences especially if they are things necro’s tend to find regularly problematic.

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Though a candle burns in my living room, there is noone home.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Not if you do it right, there should be no ants left then.

If you are doing something, do it right, just an example for you to think about.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Depends how you destroy it. Collapse it? Yeah, new one will be built. Flood it with molten aluminum? Not so much.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

I really didn’t mean to stir up all this discussion. I was just hoping we could learn everything on Friday. That’s not possible, so we’ll learn what we can.

We have a lot of people who care deeply about their professions, so I think that’s a good thing.

For sure, if you make software, you know it’s really tough to take feedback and work with it right at the end of the release cycle. I appreciate getting the nicely produced video overviews of the coming changes. Thanks for going to all that trouble.

My question has totally been answered for a while, so I’m fine if the moderators want to close this thread.

Looking forward to Friday

Have to agree with Esplen on the way in which the devs have implemented these skill bars. Not particularly organised to say the least.

It skips my mind completely why the devs won’t just release written versions of the proposed changes for all the remaining professions (and reasoning thereof) so that there will be at least time for feedback before the patch goes live. I’m not quite sure what the devs’ reasoning could be for not wanting to reveal the balance preview notes.

Bryzy.2719:

Have to agree with Esplen on the way in which the devs have implemented these skill bars. Not particularly organised to say the least.

It skips my mind completely why the devs won’t just release written versions of the proposed changes for all the remaining professions (and reasoning thereof) so that there will be at least time for feedback before the patch goes live. I’m not quite sure what the devs’ reasoning could be for not wanting to reveal the balance preview notes.

It’s because the devs aren’t sensible like we are. They are proud and they don’t like admitting that they made a mistake or are wrong about anything, when they clearly are wrong about so many things..

so I’m hearing a lot of angry replies about how the last 2 professions will not have enough time between the preview and patch to discuss the changes…

I hate to say this, but seriously, do you guys really believe that discussing the changes is going to persuade them to change anything they already decided on? What in the history of Anet makes you people believe that after releasing patch notes/previewing patch notes, that forum discussions will get them to change their mind?

The fact that they have been picking essentially at random, when to preview what profession, should be enough evidence that they are not seeking feedback for the purposes of changing their minds.

Zatoichi.1049:

so I’m hearing a lot of angry replies about how the last 2 professions will not have enough time between the preview and patch to discuss the changes…

I hate to say this, but seriously, do you guys really believe that discussing the changes is going to persuade them to change anything they already decided on? What in the history of Anet makes you people believe that after releasing patch notes/previewing patch notes, that forum discussions will get them to change their mind?

Deceptive Evasion and Weakening Shroud are two examples where preview feedback changed how things went down.

Jayce.5632:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Not if you do it right, there should be no ants left then.

If you are doing something, do it right, just an example for you to think about.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Depends how you destroy it. Collapse it? Yeah, new one will be built. Flood it with molten aluminum? Not so much.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

Too messy, and far to expensive. Kill the Queen and the rest will follow.

Strike the head of the snake.

Blot out the sun.

No body walks away.

Hail Zeon!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zatoichi.1049:

so I’m hearing a lot of angry replies about how the last 2 professions will not have enough time between the preview and patch to discuss the changes…

I hate to say this, but seriously, do you guys really believe that discussing the changes is going to persuade them to change anything they already decided on? What in the history of Anet makes you people believe that after releasing patch notes/previewing patch notes, that forum discussions will get them to change their mind?

Deceptive Evasion and Weakening Shroud are two examples where preview feedback changed how things went down.

ok, sure, but unless there are many , many more examples (which there may be), those 2 examples don’t really paint a picture of Anet being a company interested in community feedback when it comes to balance. They are historically not the best of listeners when it comes to balance. Only recently with the CDIs have they shown to have some interest in it, but that was highly structured and planned

but really, going back to my last point, considering how haphazardly they ordered the classes, for the exception of maybe ranger chosen first for a reason, do you honestly think they are going to be listening this time? The have already made it clear that the choices were random week to week, and to me, that shows a clear and purposeful lack of structure. If they wanted feedback, at least significant feedback and not just “oh kitten we overlooked a really stupid thing we did” feedback, they would have been a little more conscientious and purposeful with their ordering, and planned for X amount of time for each class. To me this just shows that they don’t give a kitten and therefor aren’t looking for any significant amount of feedback.

The only other explanation for such disregard is that they just plain didn’t realize that the last 2 classes would have no time for feedback, which to me seems less plausible.

Its not like they’ve been having these previews for feedback for a long time. They’ve only done it 1-2 times before this, so yes having 2 examples is actually quite nice.