Guild Wars 2

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dynnen.6405:

Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.

all of these skills are working as intended.
there is nothing wrong.
there are no mobility issues in WvW.

you do not come here to whine and complain because you failed to put down some one in WvW. would you kindly please accept the fact that you do not deserve that kill in the first place.

Noliver.1475:

they were intended as gap closers… thus the damage..

If they are designed to be escapes there will be no dmg assigned. Like Shadow step

they are designed as leap skills.
intended to close the gap,
or to attempt an escape (with auto targeting turned off)

nothing wrong here.

stop complaining.
accept the fact that you are incapable of snaring the target effectively.

havoc.6814:

Just no. Are you even aware that all of those skills are on melee weapons? Melee (of any profession) needs the mobility to get into the fight, stay in the fight , and, yes, to escape, because that is part of the overall dynamic of the games combat. If you want to disallow this, then you should also disallow kiting, which is really the same thing. When a ranged character attempts to kite a melee character, he is attempting to avoid taking damage. When a melee character uses his leaps away from an opponent he is doing the same thing. The difference is that the ranged player only has to get 131 units of range away from the melee character to avoid an attack – the melee character may have to get well over 1200 units of range away from the ranged character to avoid that characters attack.

These movement skills are no more a problem than is kiting. If you haven’t figure that out yet, then you are hopelessly lacking in any form of deductive reasoning. If you have figured it out and still can post this then you’re either a great troll, or a terrible player.

Agree 100%.

/thread

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Noliver.1475:

they were intended as gap closers… thus the damage..

If they are designed to be escapes there will be no dmg assigned. Like Shadow step

they are designed as leap skills.
intended to close the gap,
or to attempt an escape (with auto targeting turned off)

nothing wrong here.

stop complaining.
accept the fact that you are incapable of snaring the target effectively.

So a couple of classes should be able to escape from 95% of their fights without having to have any risk vs reward built into their class?

Dynnen.6405:

So a couple of classes should be able to escape from 95% of their fights without having to have any risk vs reward built into their class?

Then why are we not talking about stealth?

In WvW, you almost never get a fair fight when roaming. It’s either 1vX or Xv1. The smart ones spec to be able to escape (*). If you have to escape from a Xv1, your opponent should not be disappointed, it’s just some WXP. If you escape from 1vX, your opponent was a puss to begin with.

*So why don’t all classes have good escape mechanics? Who knows. But why are you not trying to fix that?

Dynnen.6405:

Now here is a great example of how NOT to do balancing, just check the warrior section of the update: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673

Huge buffs, massive changes, no scaling in ‘balancing’ what-so-ever. This was the patch where warriors went from having to have a brain to be good to the emergence of hammer trains in wvw, hambow, and various other builds.

Oh wow. Right now, go to sPvP forums, find tier-list topic, read posts for pre-25 June patch, and try to understand why ALL serious PvP-ers put warrior in lowest power tier possible. Or you can PM to them all and call them “people without brain”, lol.

Dynnen.6405:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Noliver.1475:

they were intended as gap closers… thus the damage..

If they are designed to be escapes there will be no dmg assigned. Like Shadow step

they are designed as leap skills.
intended to close the gap,
or to attempt an escape (with auto targeting turned off)

nothing wrong here.

stop complaining.
accept the fact that you are incapable of snaring the target effectively.

So a couple of classes should be able to escape from 95% of their fights without having to have any risk vs reward built into their class?

of course, it is certainly not the speedy warrior’s fault if the slow mesmer is unable to catch and put down the warrior.

the other topic about warriors with best landspeed is the same thing.

all i see are people who whine and complain because they are not happy that their “prey” got away.

so instead of modifying their builds to have better snares, or work together with friends with multiple snares etc, they come to the forums to whine and complain.

Cygnus.6903:

Dynnen.6405:

So a couple of classes should be able to escape from 95% of their fights without having to have any risk vs reward built into their class?

Then why are we not talking about stealth?

In WvW, you almost never get a fair fight when roaming. It’s either 1vX or Xv1. The smart ones spec to be able to escape (*). If you have to escape from a Xv1, your opponent should not be disappointed, it’s just some WXP. If you escape from 1vX, your opponent was a puss to begin with.

*So why don’t all classes have good escape mechanics? Who knows. But why are you not trying to fix that?

I could write a thesis on how stealth in this game is broken from its foundation up. Zero risk-vs-reward involved. Its all reward. Plus when a thief hides in stealth house they usually heartseeker away at nothing, which is a leap finisher.

The reason I don’t mention stealth is because it will never be fixed. However balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

I don’t mind leaving things as they are, provided other classes get escapes too.
Why should my Necro have to sit and eat leaps, but fail to catch a running Warrior? I have a gap closer that won’t do jack all if it misses. I want free movement – And I know Necros were supposed to have bad movement, but Warriors were supposed to have mediocre cleansing, so clearly it’s ok to break some roles.
By the logic posted here, give my Necro some leaps/dashes/etc, then we’ll see how many Warrior’s are happy with “their prey [getting] away.”

Dynnen.6405:

balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

i read that as:

hunter: “kitten! the fox is too fast! the fox ran away before i could beat it to death with my stick!”

so the hunter complained to the skies and hope some great powers up there would hear the complains and somehow make foxes run slower.

Balefire.7592:

I don’t mind leaving things as they are, provided other classes get escapes too.
Why should my Necro have to sit and eat leaps, but fail to catch a running Warrior? I have a gap closer that won’t do jack all if it misses. I want free movement – And I know Necros were supposed to have bad movement, but Warriors were supposed to have mediocre cleansing, so meh.
By the logic posted here, give my Necro some leaps/dashes/etc, then we’ll see how many Warrior’s are happy with “their prey [getting] away.”

rocks paper scissors.
warriors do not have death shroud, minions, etc.
play other professions if you wish to escape.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Balefire.7592:

I don’t mind leaving things as they are, provided other classes get escapes too.
Why should my Necro have to sit and eat leaps, but fail to catch a running Warrior? I have a gap closer that won’t do jack all if it misses. I want free movement – And I know Necros were supposed to have bad movement, but Warriors were supposed to have mediocre cleansing, so meh.
By the logic posted here, give my Necro some leaps/dashes/etc, then we’ll see how many Warrior’s are happy with “their prey [getting] away.”

rocks paper scissors.
warriors do not have death shroud, minions, etc.
play other professions if you wish to escape.

That’s not a valid argument. By that logic, we should be ok to fix dash-escapes, and you can go “play other professions if you wish to escape.”

Dynnen.6405:

killahmayne.9518:

Any class can do "a ton of burst" when they trait for it or go full zerker. Axe is actually very weak if you don’t go nearly full zerker. Eviscerate has a long animation, easily telegraphed, is hampered highly by movement impairing conditions and if it doesn’t crit it hits like wet noodle. They are also easily kited and their DPS is unreliable. Warriors also got "nerfed" when they had 30% burst damage reduced to 3% burst dmg in their traitline.

Nerfing doesn’t have to mean just outright putting a class or a skill into the dumpster. It is just a specific term for a change or a tweak indicating whether they are weakening something, or a buff which is to strengthen something, in order to achieve the desired balance.

You’re acting like the warrior is only trying to chase people down with an axe only in their mainhand and no utilities or traits. Dogged march? Cleansing Ire? Top tier HP pool? Adrenal Healing? Healing Signet? ZZzz...z....zzzzzzzz....

And that ’nerf’ you got to your 30% damage was a change. It went to 30% CD reduction in burst skills, and the damage went to burst mastery which started at 10%, then went to 7%. A decent example of how to balance...Now here is a great example of how NOT to do balancing, just check the warrior section of the update: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673

Huge buffs, massive changes, no scaling in ’balancing’ what-so-ever. This was the patch where warriors went from having to have a brain to be good to the emergence of hammer trains in wvw, hambow, and various other builds.

Anywho, back on topic since that we’ve come to the end of the ’warriors need balancing’ debate. Leap skills need a target to keep mobility in the game balanced.

What I have mentioned, I’ve even accounted the off weapon greatsword. So why with a mobility weapon such as greatsword, can one get kited? Because once you switch to axe, the opponent can easily distance themselves away from you. Because the greatsword has no hard CC whatsoever to keep the opponent locked in order for you to use the axe effectively. Well shield you might say? That still requires you to be in melee range and things like dodge, stability, stunbreaks, aegis, block, invulnerability still exist in the game. Cleansing Ire I guarantee you is not going to help you when using an axe or a greatsword because landing both bursts are very difficult.

What people do not know is that outside Cleansing Ire, a warriors condition removal is pure kitten. And if they actually want condition removal they give up everything. How are you supposed to land an eviscerate when Necros just stack chills, cripples with 70% condition duration? Or axe auto attacks, or anything for that matter? Dogged March??? Pfft.

Top tier HP doesn’t have anything to do with being kited, or Healing Signet and Adrenal Health for that matter.

It is funny cuz even after that patch Warriors were still not even viable in tournament play. It was only after Healing Signet was buffed. Warriors were still considered underpowered at that point in time because their healing was pure kitten. Hambow builds weren’t even meta back then, and hammer trains have always been meta since the launch of this game.

Leaps don’t even need to be only usable with targeting persay to keep it balanced. Because I still think there should be viable escape options, i.e if you are taking too much damage in a zerg, you need to create distance, etc. Obviously the problem comes through people abusing it and just running but that can be solved by even introducing cast-times if lets say you are leaping outside of 900 range from an enemy. However, what I do believe is that certain classes should have more access to mobility than others and that certain classes should have less. For example, I don’t think a mesmer should be able to chase a thief down across the entire map, and I think it is rather silly that they think they should be able to.

Balefire.7592:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dynnen.6405:

balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

i read that as:

hunter: “kitten! the fox is too fast! the fox ran away before i could beat it to death with my stick!”

so the hunter complained to the skies and hope some great powers up there would hear the complains and somehow make foxes run slower.

Balefire.7592:

I don’t mind leaving things as they are, provided other classes get escapes too.
Why should my Necro have to sit and eat leaps, but fail to catch a running Warrior? I have a gap closer that won’t do jack all if it misses. I want free movement – And I know Necros were supposed to have bad movement, but Warriors were supposed to have mediocre cleansing, so meh.
By the logic posted here, give my Necro some leaps/dashes/etc, then we’ll see how many Warrior’s are happy with “their prey [getting] away.”

rocks paper scissors.
warriors do not have death shroud, minions, etc.
play other professions if you wish to escape.

Same to you. Go play thief if you want to escape. That’s not a valid argument.

no, my argument is valid. not my problem though if you do not agree.
yes, thief with shadow refuge stealth certainly is a better escape.
warrior’s long sword savage leap is only useful in 1 vs 1 situation where the other person did not have good snares.
or i 2 v 1 situation if the 2 people party do not carry good snares.

dear hunters, please roam in a group and bring better snares if you do not wish for your prey to escape.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dynnen.6405:

balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

i read that as:

hunter: “kitten! the fox is too fast! the fox ran away before i could beat it to death with my stick!”

so the hunter complained to the skies and hope some great powers up there would hear the complains and somehow make foxes run slower.

Balefire.7592:

I don’t mind leaving things as they are, provided other classes get escapes too.
Why should my Necro have to sit and eat leaps, but fail to catch a running Warrior? I have a gap closer that won’t do jack all if it misses. I want free movement – And I know Necros were supposed to have bad movement, but Warriors were supposed to have mediocre cleansing, so meh.
By the logic posted here, give my Necro some leaps/dashes/etc, then we’ll see how many Warrior’s are happy with “their prey [getting] away.”

rocks paper scissors.
warriors do not have death shroud, minions, etc.
play other professions if you wish to escape.

And I read this as: I love having my I get out of jail free card built into my class because my alt+F4 doesn’t work anymore! Also I’m a forum troll that has 69 pages worth of posts!

Lightning Teleport should get a 80 second cooldown when it doesn’t hit a target, It blinds when hit on an enemy.

Blink should get a 80 second cooldown when it isn’t used as a gap closer to make things fair.

Dynnen.6405:

I could write a thesis on how stealth in this game is broken from its foundation up. Zero risk-vs-reward involved. Its all reward. Plus when a thief hides in stealth house they usually heartseeker away at nothing, which is a leap finisher.

The reason I don’t mention stealth is because it will never be fixed. However balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

I disagree. Stealth is fine. Playing a thief against any half decent player is hard. In WvW at least. Off course, ganking mediocre players is easiest when playing thief. But who cares about that.

For the sake of argument, let’s say stealth is broken. Saying stealth can never be fixed and should therefore be left alone is such a weak argument, I can write a thesis about it. And again, why nerf mobility? Give the other classes better escapes also.

To be sure, we are dividing the classes in two groups, one with good, and one without good escaping mechanics, right?

So, the good ones:

Warrior
Elementalist
Engineer
Thief
Mesmer

Bad:
Necro
Guardian
Ranger

That leaves only three classes to ‘fix’ when it comes to mobility.

Or am I missing something here?

Cygnus.6903:

Dynnen.6405:

I could write a thesis on how stealth in this game is broken from its foundation up. Zero risk-vs-reward involved. Its all reward. Plus when a thief hides in stealth house they usually heartseeker away at nothing, which is a leap finisher.

The reason I don’t mention stealth is because it will never be fixed. However balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

I disagree. Stealth is fine. Playing a thief against any half decent player is hard. In WvW at least. Off course, ganking mediocre players is easiest when playing thief. But who cares about that.

For the sake of argument, let’s say stealth is broken. Saying stealth can never be fixed and should therefore be left alone is such a weak argument, I can write a thesis about it. And again, why nerf mobility? Give the other classes better escapes also.

To be sure, we are dividing the classes in two groups, one with good, and one without good escaping mechanics, right?

So, the good ones:

Warrior
Elementalist
Engineer
Thief
Mesmer

Bad:
Necro
Guardian
Ranger

That leaves only three classes to ‘fix’ when it comes to mobility.

Or am I missing something here?

Rangers have great mobility when using GS or even sword if you know how to use it properly.

killahmayne.9518:

Rangers have great mobility when using GS or even sword if you know how to use it properly.

I think I agree, but I don’t have very extensive knowledge of that class.

Cygnus.6903:

Dynnen.6405:

I could write a thesis on how stealth in this game is broken from its foundation up. Zero risk-vs-reward involved. Its all reward. Plus when a thief hides in stealth house they usually heartseeker away at nothing, which is a leap finisher.

The reason I don’t mention stealth is because it will never be fixed. However balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

I disagree. Stealth is fine. Playing a thief against any half decent player is hard. In WvW at least. Off course, ganking mediocre players is easiest when playing thief. But who cares about that.

For the sake of argument, let’s say stealth is broken. Saying stealth can never be fixed and should therefore be left alone is such a weak argument, I can write a thesis about it. And again, why nerf mobility? Give the other classes better escapes also.

To be sure, we are dividing the classes in two groups, one with good, and one without good escaping mechanics, right?

So, the good ones:

Warrior
Elementalist
Engineer
Thief
Mesmer

Bad:
Necro
Guardian
Ranger

That leaves only three classes to ‘fix’ when it comes to mobility.

Or am I missing something here?

Well, that would require them to admit that theres something wrong with mobility, and to be honest I don’t think they’ve even thought about it. Especially considering things like PU, Shadow’s Embrace/Rejuvination, healing signet/adrenal heal can easily be combined with mobility and give stupid survivability. However specific classes have a ton, have a little, or next to nothing.

Oozo.7856:

Some older games got it right …

Some people apparently would rather play other games.

Cygnus.6903:

killahmayne.9518:

Rangers have great mobility when using GS or even sword if you know how to use it properly.

I think I agree, but I don’t have very extensive knowledge of that class.

GS has a 1000 range leap every 15 seconds, traited it is 12 seconds. Sword if you use number 2, you roll back about 400 units, pan your camera backwards and use the leap to escape an additional 600 units. You can do this every 8 seconds, and approximately every 6 and a half seconds if you have the sword trait. So yeah, Rangers can have amazing mobility, god forbid if they use sword/greatsword.

killahmayne.9518:

Cygnus.6903:

killahmayne.9518:

Rangers have great mobility when using GS or even sword if you know how to use it properly.

I think I agree, but I don’t have very extensive knowledge of that class.

GS has a 1000 range leap every 15 seconds, traited it is 12 seconds. Sword if you use number 2, you roll back about 400 units, pan your camera backwards and use the leap to escape an additional 600 units. You can do this every 8 seconds, and approximately every 6 and a half seconds if you have the sword trait. So yeah, Rangers can have amazing mobility, god forbid if they use sword/greatsword.

Well there you go.

So, the good ones:

Warrior
Elementalist
Engineer
Thief
Mesmer
Ranger

Bad:
Necro
Guardian

That leaves only two classes to ‘fix’ when it comes to mobility.

Cygnus.6903:

Dynnen.6405:

I could write a thesis on how stealth in this game is broken from its foundation up. Zero risk-vs-reward involved. Its all reward. Plus when a thief hides in stealth house they usually heartseeker away at nothing, which is a leap finisher.

The reason I don’t mention stealth is because it will never be fixed. However balancing movement for the rest of us that don’t have a spamable leap finisher, or low-cd get away would be a nice thing to have for the next 3 months.

I disagree. Stealth is fine. Playing a thief against any half decent player is hard. In WvW at least. Off course, ganking mediocre players is easiest when playing thief. But who cares about that.

For the sake of argument, let’s say stealth is broken. Saying stealth can never be fixed and should therefore be left alone is such a weak argument, I can write a thesis about it. And again, why nerf mobility? Give the other classes better escapes also.

To be sure, we are dividing the classes in two groups, one with good, and one without good escaping mechanics, right?

So, the good ones:

Warrior
Elementalist
Engineer
Thief
Mesmer

Bad:
Necro
Guardian
Ranger

That leaves only three classes to ‘fix’ when it comes to mobility.

Or am I missing something here?

I am not arguing against your main point. Just the details that carries bad misconception.

Necromancer’s escape utility is in snares. Every weapon set that necromancer has except the off-hand dagger has a snare of some kind. Every necromancer has a fear on their third DS skill which will turn the enemy away. You are creating a gap by slowing the enemy down, just like a warrior creates a gap by leaping away. Still don’t like it? You can always place a wurm somewhere.

Necromancer has bad mobility? yes. Bad escape mechanics? No.

Rangers have sword/gs as escape mechanics. They have gap openers in swoop, Lightning Reflexes and Hornet sting/monarch leap. They also have AoE snare from Muddy Terrain, traps or entangle. If you use bows, you can stealth away, point blank shot and/or barrage.

Bad mobility? No. Bad escape mechanics? No

Guardians have wards to create gaps, they can also carry a lot of sustain to get to a safe place. Although they carry a specific weapon sets and they are not as flexible as the profession above, warriors aren’t flexible either. To get mobility, you need sword or gs. If you have a hambow in the warrior, your mobility comes crashing down compared to the GS and sword combo.

Bad mobility? Yes. Bad escape mechanics? It is the worst of all profession. It requires sustain for survivability and hope the enemies get tired of chasing you.

runeblade.7514:

I am not arguing against your main point. Just the details that carries bad misconception.

Necromancer’s escape utility is in snares. Every weapon set that necromancer has except the off-hand dagger has a snare of some kind. Every necromancer has a fear on their third DS skill which will turn the enemy away. You are creating a gap by slowing the enemy down, just like a warrior creates a gap by leaping away. Still don’t like it? You can always place a wurm somewhere.

Necromancer has bad mobility? yes. Bad escape mechanics? No.

Rangers have sword/gs as escape mechanics. They have gap openers in swoop, Lightning Reflexes and Hornet sting/monarch leap. They also have AoE snare from Muddy Terrain, traps or entangle. If you use bows, you can stealth away, point blank shot and/or barrage.

Bad mobility? No. Bad escape mechanics? No

Guardians have wards to create gaps, they can also carry a lot of sustain to get to a safe place. Although they carry a specific weapon sets and they are not as flexible as the profession above, warriors aren’t flexible either. To get mobility, you need sword or gs. If you have a hambow in the warrior, your mobility comes crashing down compared to the GS and sword combo.

Bad mobility? Yes. Bad escape mechanics? It is the worst of all profession. It requires sustain for survivability and hope the enemies get tired of chasing you.

I guess I was using the words ‘mobility’ and ‘escape mechanics’ wrong, thanks for clarifying.

The thing with necro’s, though, is that after the initial snare, you can quite easily catch up to them, if you have good mobility. If you avoid the snare, you don’t have to catch up at all. That’s where mobility outshines other escape mechanics. But, for the sake of clarity, we can redivide the classes:

Good mobility:

Warriors
Thieves
Rangers
Elementalists
Mesmers

Good snares:

Engineers
Necros

Stealth:

Thieves
Mesmers

Lacking:

Guardians

This topic is so bad.

Little time ago there was a MESMER in wvw.
He kept holding our waypoints contested.
So i hop on warr and equip gs/sword.
So i run after this guy… With 30 other people!!
You know what? We couldnt get him!!

And you what? He didnt even have to use leap skills..

Teleport/stealth can do the same.

Necro can create a gap also > fear.

So if you nerf leap. Nerf all teleports etc also!

I would love to see mesmers teleporting at me all the time..

Cygnus.6903:

runeblade.7514:

I am not arguing against your main point. Just the details that carries bad misconception.

Necromancer’s escape utility is in snares. Every weapon set that necromancer has except the off-hand dagger has a snare of some kind. Every necromancer has a fear on their third DS skill which will turn the enemy away. You are creating a gap by slowing the enemy down, just like a warrior creates a gap by leaping away. Still don’t like it? You can always place a wurm somewhere.

Necromancer has bad mobility? yes. Bad escape mechanics? No.

Rangers have sword/gs as escape mechanics. They have gap openers in swoop, Lightning Reflexes and Hornet sting/monarch leap. They also have AoE snare from Muddy Terrain, traps or entangle. If you use bows, you can stealth away, point blank shot and/or barrage.

Bad mobility? No. Bad escape mechanics? No

Guardians have wards to create gaps, they can also carry a lot of sustain to get to a safe place. Although they carry a specific weapon sets and they are not as flexible as the profession above, warriors aren’t flexible either. To get mobility, you need sword or gs. If you have a hambow in the warrior, your mobility comes crashing down compared to the GS and sword combo.

Bad mobility? Yes. Bad escape mechanics? It is the worst of all profession. It requires sustain for survivability and hope the enemies get tired of chasing you.

I guess I was using the words ‘mobility’ and ‘escape mechanics’ wrong, thanks for clarifying.

The thing with necro’s, though, is that after the initial snare, you can quite easily catch up to them, if you have good mobility. If you avoid the snare, you don’t have to catch up at all. That’s where mobility outshines other escape mechanics. But, for the sake of clarity, we can redivide the classes:

Good mobility:

Warriors
Thieves
Rangers
Elementalists
Mesmers

Good snares:

Engineers
Necros

Stealth:

Thieves
Mesmers

Lacking:

Guardians

Guardians have wards for gap creators. If you put guardians down there, you need to put warriors down there because both professions require a specific skill set in order to achieve maximum escapability.

runeblade.7514:

Guardians have wards for gap creators. If you put guardians down there, you need to put warriors down there because both professions require a specific skill set in order to achieve maximum escapability.

I’m putting guardians down there because their maximum escapability is bad, not because you have to spec for escapability to be able to escape. Every class has to do that, so it is a null fact.

Besides, a ward is extremely easy to circumvent (stability, for instance, or…walking around it).

havoc.6814:

Just no. Are you even aware that all of those skills are on melee weapons? Melee (of any profession) needs the mobility to get into the fight, stay in the fight , and, yes, to escape, because that is part of the overall dynamic of the games combat. If you want to disallow this, then you should also disallow kiting, which is really the same thing. When a ranged character attempts to kite a melee character, he is attempting to avoid taking damage. When a melee character uses his leaps away from an opponent he is doing the same thing. The difference is that the ranged player only has to get 131 units of range away from the melee character to avoid an attack – the melee character may have to get well over 1200 units of range away from the ranged character to avoid that characters attack.

These movement skills are no more a problem than is kiting. If you haven’t figure that out yet, then you are hopelessly lacking in any form of deductive reasoning. If you have figured it out and still can post this then you’re either a great troll, or a terrible player.

^

havoc.6814:

Just no. Are you even aware that all of those skills are on melee weapons? Melee (of any profession) needs the mobility to get into the fight, stay in the fight , and, yes, to escape, because that is part of the overall dynamic of the games combat. If you want to disallow this, then you should also disallow kiting, which is really the same thing. When a ranged character attempts to kite a melee character, he is attempting to avoid taking damage. When a melee character uses his leaps away from an opponent he is doing the same thing. The difference is that the ranged player only has to get 131 units of range away from the melee character to avoid an attack – the melee character may have to get well over 1200 units of range away from the ranged character to avoid that characters attack.

These movement skills are no more a problem than is kiting. If you haven’t figure that out yet, then you are hopelessly lacking in any form of deductive reasoning. If you have figured it out and still can post this then you’re either a great troll, or a terrible player.

Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = Melee character
Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = No weapon swap, locked into melee
Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = RTL nerf, setting a precedent that should be applied to ALL kittenING OTHER CLASS GAP SKILLS or revert the nerf.

Consistency from the balance team would be amazing.

ITT: A necro and guardian realize they are slow

As a guardian (seconds slowest class in the game besides my mesmer) this would be awful to me. I can rarely use this skill to escape a fight because I’m so ridiculously slow. I use this one to keep up with zergs and just to move across terrain. If they were to make this skill like all of my target required teleports I would never take my guard into wvw because I can’t keep up.

eleshazar.6902:

As a guardian (seconds slowest class in the game besides my mesmer) this would be awful to me. I can rarely use this skill to escape a fight because I’m so ridiculously slow. I use this one to keep up with zergs and just to move across terrain. If they were to make this skill like all of my target required teleports I would never take my guard into wvw because I can’t keep up.

Yes, that is the problem when all gap closers need targets to being used.

For example:
If RTL is changed to require a target to be used, eles would be in a bigger problem than now.

In the end, no one would escape from fights and (for the sake of balance) all gap closer would be like thief ones, but requiring targets.

Interesting idea.

But it has a glaring problem and that would be the impact on combinations.

If you look at the value of leap finisher effects, many of them are not directed really at a target. I may want to leap to create stealth or any of the 3 armors that can be created. And the benefits of these effects goes beyond impacting a single character.

Your concern about the ability to escape combat has to be taken in light of the ability of so many classes to get into melee range easily without taking much ranged damage in the process.

A warrior hardly comes into a battle with a ranger at under half health by the time they engage in melee.

Working as intended.
Nothing to see here.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Noliver.1475:

they were intended as gap closers… thus the damage..

If they are designed to be escapes there will be no dmg assigned. Like Shadow step

they are designed as leap skills.
intended to close the gap,
or to attempt an escape (with auto targeting turned off)

nothing wrong here.

stop complaining.
accept the fact that you are incapable of snaring the target effectively.

Warriors can have nearly passive immunity to roots and snares in WvW. Throw in multiple sources of stability, their mobility, and healing signet and it is extremely difficult to lock one down long enough to kill them if they aren’t idiots.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Working as intended.
Nothing to see here.

If it is working as intended then why were elems nerfed for exactly what warriors are doing now.

Dynnen.6405:

Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.

Why? One of the best choices the dev’s made when designing this game was the combat style/engine – the entire idea that you can use most of your skills without a target/target in range is one of the biggest difference between this game and most other PvP MMO’s – your reason for wanting it changes is pretty minor in comparison to that.

evilapprentice.6379:

Dynnen.6405:

Charge, Heartseeker, Leap of Faith, savage leap, monarch’s leap, etc, etc, etc…these really need to be changed to be used at a target, would fix a lot of mobility issues in wvw.

Why? One of the best choices the dev’s made when designing this game was the combat style/engine – the entire idea that you can use most of your skills without a target/target in range is one of the biggest difference between this game and most other PvP MMO’s – your reason for wanting it changes is pretty minor in comparison to that.

And then they said: “Frack this, elementalistss shan’t have any of that!” and nerfed RTL into the ground.

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

Some older games got it right …

Some people apparently would rather play other games.

And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.

Anet either doesn’t take balancing seriously or has a vision that just doesn’t mesh well with people more interested in fights with good play and counterplay.

K U T M.4539:

ITT: A necro and guardian realize they are slow

I have a 80 guardian, 80 necro, and an 80 warrior.

Dogged march with melandru and lemongrass on the warrior. Two sources of stability.

Oozo.7856:

Warriors can have nearly passive immunity to roots and snares in WvW. Throw in multiple sources of stability, their mobility, and healing signet and it is extremely difficult to lock one down long enough to kill them if they aren’t idiots.

what if, you are not meant to kill them in the first place?

you know, because, they are, not idiots?

get over the fact, you or your group are not supposed to put down every warrior you see.

Disagree with this there are already plenty of suggestions running around that attempt to remove the action from “action mmo”. Vigor uptime nerf is hitting soon which is more action being nerfed. If this keeps going we could just spreadsheet math everything and already have the outcome of a engagement figured out like we are playing WOW.

oZii.2864:

Disagree with this there are already plenty of suggestions running around that attempt to remove the action from “action mmo”. Vigor uptime nerf is hitting soon which is more action being nerfed. If this keeps going we could just spreadsheet math everything and already have the outcome of a engagement figured out like we are playing WOW.

Running away from a fight like a giant kitten constantly isn’t action. Risk vs. Reward is action, combat that forces you to make choices due to this Risk vs. Reward idea is action.

totalpwnage.6534:

MarzAttakz.9608:

havoc.6814:

Just no. Are you even aware that all of those skills are on melee weapons? Melee (of any profession) needs the mobility to get into the fight, stay in the fight , and, yes, to escape, because that is part of the overall dynamic of the games combat. If you want to disallow this, then you should also disallow kiting, which is really the same thing. When a ranged character attempts to kite a melee character, he is attempting to avoid taking damage. When a melee character uses his leaps away from an opponent he is doing the same thing. The difference is that the ranged player only has to get 131 units of range away from the melee character to avoid an attack – the melee character may have to get well over 1200 units of range away from the ranged character to avoid that characters attack.

These movement skills are no more a problem than is kiting. If you haven’t figure that out yet, then you are hopelessly lacking in any form of deductive reasoning. If you have figured it out and still can post this then you’re either a great troll, or a terrible player.

Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = Melee character
Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = No weapon swap, locked into melee
Dagger / Dagger Elementalist = RTL nerf, setting a precedent that should be applied to ALL kittenING OTHER CLASS GAP SKILLS or revert the nerf.

Consistency from the balance team would be amazing.

Are you stupid? Elementalists can use SCEPTER/DAGGER meaning they have range damage + RTL. THATS why it was nerfed. If RTL could only be used by D/D eles then it probably wouldn’t have been nerfed but the fact they could RTL away with low CD and attack from range made it OP. I don’t know why people keep referring to RTL here as it was used as a kiting skill for range damage.. Warriors can’t range while escaping so there is no imbalance.

This is completely false. Not only have the developers stated why RTL was nerfed (because fight reset + healing, EXACTLY the reason warriors use their supreme mobility) you couldn’t even do that, because scepter only has 900 range and RTL was 1500.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

This is completely false. Not only have the developers stated why RTL was nerfed (because fight reset + healing, EXACTLY the reason warriors use their supreme mobility) you couldn’t even do that, because scepter only has 900 range and RTL was 1500.

+1, basically this, Warriors are able to completely reset a fight and restart it again, this is what caused RtL top get nerfed, now the other classes who can pull this off should be brought up to parr.

Oozo.7856:

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

Some older games got it right …

Some people apparently would rather play other games.

And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.

Good, you do that, go back to Everquest or whatever (older) games got it right. Being able to use skills without having a target was a selling point of this one.

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

Some older games got it right …

Some people apparently would rather play other games.

And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.

Good, you do that, go back to Everquest or whatever (older) games got it right. Being able to use skills without having a target was a selling point of this one.

Fairly certain he was talking about games like: Elder Scrolls Online, Camelot Unchained, and maybe even Wildstar. Ofc if we took the entire gw2 population and moved them to DAoC we’d all be a lot happier, lol

Dynnen.6405:

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

frans.8092:

Oozo.7856:

Some older games got it right …

Some people apparently would rather play other games.

And I will be along with up to twenty or so other people from my guild and allied guilds alone as soon as a viable option presents itself. I suspect I’m not alone.

Good, you do that, go back to Everquest or whatever (older) games got it right. Being able to use skills without having a target was a selling point of this one.

Fairly certain he was talking about games like: Elder Scrolls Online, Camelot Unchained, and maybe even Wildstar. Ofc if we took the entire gw2 population and moved them to DAoC we’d all be a lot happier, lol

I don’t know which games he was talking about but he did say “older games”.

Oozo.7856:

Dogged march with melandru and lemongrass on the warrior. Two sources of stability.

Shh, I gonna tell you one thing, secret thing, almost nobody knows it yet.
It’s hard to believe, but… you can use melandru runes and lemongrass on other classes. I was literally shocked when someone told me about that.