“Professionals… are predictable; the world is full
of dangerous amateurs.” Murphy’s Law
Mr Mooo → Piken Square
of dangerous amateurs.” Murphy’s Law
Mr Mooo → Piken Square
Litany Vs Defiant - balance reasoning
Because as you say, the other way around they’d fit too well.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Guardians in the current meta aren’t usually devoted towards dealing large amounts of damage, so Litany of Wrath can move their desires towards that. Defiant Stance wouldn’t work so well for them, I don’t think, because they have more of an emphasis on mitigating damage through blocks, Aegis, blinds and dodges than Warriors. It would also fill more or less the same role as Shelter.
Warriors already have very stable heals at their disposal. Healing Signet’s the obvious choice at the moment, but the other two heals don’t exactly take a genius to use effectively; Defiant Stance contrasts this by being a very aggressive, very high-risk heal. Litany of Wrath wouldn’t work so well, in my opinion, because it’s really obvious how to use it, as warriors already have constant burst options regardless of their weapons; you just go “oh i use litany of wrath and then i use my hundred blades combo, fairly straightforward” (i know that 100b is not really popular at the moment, it’s an example). It fits too seamlessly into their toolkit, whereas an option which doesn’t quite fit into their toolkit asks you to think outside of the box to use it effectively.
I should also add a disclaimer here; I am talking out of my kitten.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
I’m not entirely sure I would classify Defiant Stance as a “high risk” heal (since you cannot take damage during it), but otherwise the person above me probably has it right.
Yeah I want a developer to give us an answer for this.
Not some made up logic by forum keyboard warriors.
I agree that the two should switch professions.
http://strawpoll.me/3648686/r Queue for PvP from any map. Vote Here. Zojoel [ASAP Zerg]
indeed, defiant stance works just like Mark of Protection from GW1 which was a monk skill, and guardians have pretty much taken all of the old monk skills.
like smite condition, contemplation of purity, smiters boon, healing breeze etc.
it would have fitted guardian so well.
warriors will never use it aslong as healing signet remains godly.
it would have fitted guardian so well.
warriors will never use it aslong as healing signet remains godly.
That’s really more of a healing signet problem than anything else, and healing signet’s already on the chopping block. Would be nice to see the other warrior heals get some action as well.
Yeah I want a developer to give us an answer for this.
Not some made up logic by forum keyboard warriors.
I agree that the two should switch professions.
Going to have a tough time getting one with that attitude.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
(edited by Sarrs.4831)
Just spitballing, but wouldn’t defiant stance overlapped too much in functionality with shelter if it had been given to guardian? I know they aren’t identical, but maybe they share too much similarity to have been thought useful.
Just spitballing, but wouldn’t defiant stance overlapped too much in functionality with shelter if it had been given to guardian? I know they aren’t identical, but maybe they share too much similarity to have been thought useful.
This is my thinking also you would basically use them for the same thing though you could potentially gain more hp back with defiant on a guardian.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
The only thing that always confused me was that definant stance gets a 1/4s cast time, whereas litany has a 1s cast time. Even if they buff it to 3/4s, it’ll still be too slow, IMO. Should be at least 1/2s or instant cast like the other meditations.
I’ve used it for awhile in PvP, but I feel like shelter is just much better at getting the job done, especially since it’s on a lower cooldown. That may perhaps be that I usually only fight 1-2 targets at a time though, whereas litany would obviously get better healing output when damaging multiple targets.
The only thing that always confused me was that definant stance gets a 1/4s cast time, whereas litany has a 1s cast time. Even if they buff it to 3/4s, it’ll still be too slow, IMO. Should be at least 1/2s or instant cast like the other meditations.
I’ve used it for awhile in PvP, but I feel like shelter is just much better at getting the job done, especially since it’s on a lower cooldown. That may perhaps be that I usually only fight 1-2 targets at a time though, whereas litany would obviously get better healing output when damaging multiple targets.
I think the difference here is because:
Defiant Stance is a reactive button. When you use it reactively, you need that short cast time; something like a thief comes up and is about to pistol whip you or something? Pop Defiant nice and quick so you get a big bunch of healing from the slashy portion of it. Elementalist running up to prepare his Phoenix Burning Grasp combo, you pop it quick and turn it on his head. It’s useless if you can’t anticipate a burst, or activate it before that burst happens.
Litany of Wrath is a proactive button because you’re the one who controls when and where you burst. You’re probably watching your CDs and checking when they line up so that you can use Litany of Wrath and then dump a bunch of damage on your target. A longer cast time doesn’t completely prevent the ability from being useful, but a cast time that’s too long does make your burst very predictable. If Litany were a 1.5 second cast, for example- You’d cast Litany, and then the other dude would be like “oh hey he’s cast Litany let’s spam some dodges and immunities”, but it does need to have some cast time so that there is some opportunity to identify and counterplay.
TL;DR, reactive vs proactive. Reactive skills need to have short cast times so that you can react properly with them. Proactive skills don’t.
again, pulling-it-out-of-my-kitten disclaimer
Nalhadia – Kaineng
^I get what you saying but the disproportion is too big. One of the is eaaaasy and other is quite hard to pull off.
It hurts my eyes to see a 1/4 cast time on this heal (Defiant stance) – there is no counter play to that. With this heal you can choose which oponent skill you want to give you 100% dmg->life (and most skills have much longer cast time). I won’t even mention group fight when it’s hard to see – team can’t even communicate in time to stop attacking for this 3s seconds so he wouldn’t end up with full heal.
This would be great on guard – becaus you would need to control your boons and not use it together with protection, and why it look similiar to shelter in a way (oponent doesn’t want to attack you in this time) this one would be more offensive as it would be meditation and allowed you to apply some burst without worrying to be bursted down in the process.
On the other hand – Lithany has 1s cast time! Obvious animation as any other heal, and it’s only 20% of the dmg.
Hom much dmg can you do on guard on steady target? Now try on moving NPC in the mists – guardians can’t lock down people and have 6s of easy dmg on target. One dodge and swiftnes is all that will make this heal wasted.
Maybe more “symmetry” in ballance approach would be better – Litany of Wrath – 1/2s cast time, 100% dmg done comes back as heal – 3s – high risk, high reward – and Dev could add even clearer animation – Guardian would be all glowy and shiny for the whole 3s, just like the new achievment armor skins.
“Professionals… are predictable; the world is full
of dangerous amateurs.” Murphy’s Law
Mr Mooo → Piken Square
of dangerous amateurs.” Murphy’s Law
Mr Mooo → Piken Square
(edited by monochrome.9841)
I’m not entirely sure I would classify Defiant Stance as a “high risk” heal (since you cannot take damage during it), but otherwise the person above me probably has it right.
It’s high risk because it has a 35 sec cooldown, 3 seconds of uptime, and big green numbers appear to the enemy telling them that they are healing you. If you just “use” it with no situational awareness you will have wasted a heal that doesn’t even last long to begin with and die in an instant.
I’m not entirely sure I would classify Defiant Stance as a “high risk” heal (since you cannot take damage during it), but otherwise the person above me probably has it right.
It’s high risk because it has a 35 sec cooldown, 3 seconds of uptime, and big green numbers appear to the enemy telling them that they are healing you. If you just “use” it with no situational awareness you will have wasted a heal that doesn’t even last long to begin with and die in an instant.
Fair enough. Makes sense to me.
Litany of Wrath fits warrior perfectly.
But on the other hand, Defiant Stance wouldn’t fit guardian. Thematically maybe, but mechanically?
That’s like making your Protection and Aegis a debuff, and removing conditions as crippling yourself, as they would heal you for that period of time instead.
Much better on a warrior without protection and aegis.
Litany of Wrath will be garbage until it has no cast time like all the other mediations.
Defiant Stance would work well with the guardian if it provided a set amount of healing scaled with healing power per hit.
Defiant stance is just a dumb skill to begin with, and should be replaced by something more skillful.