Guild Wars 2

DONT TAKE THEM AWAY. PLEASE KEEP THEM SAME AS NOWWW.

Edit at least let us have increased boon duration for boons changed from 5 condis,

RIP Lyssa’s Stability.

HEAR HEAR. ANET! U STILL HAVE TIME LEFT. PLEASE. LYSSA WAS THE SAVING GRACE FOR LOTS OF PVP CLASSES. DONT RUIN IT! PLEASEEEEEE…

anet just wants to make sure conditions completely reign supreme.

they’re nerfing direct damage and making conditions stronger, as if they weren’t already broken.

I’m actually not impressed with the nerf. The problem was the cooldown, not the effect.

lyssa runes finally are getting nerfed,pls close down this thread

There’s no pleasure like anticipation.
I want to smell all the delicious tears from the thiefs and warriors and everyone else with this stupid rune.

sinject.4607:

anet just wants to make sure conditions completely reign supreme.

they’re nerfing direct damage and making conditions stronger, as if they weren’t already broken.

Yeah, because Lyssa runes weren’t unbalanced and don’t need a nerf. It doesn’t matter how strong or weak conditions are, in a vacuum, Lyssa still needs a nerf.

Lol… People and their Lyssa. When a nerf of a rune set causes this much of an uproar, you KNOW it wasn’t in line with the others.

as a thief i don’t mind the the nerf because we use lyssa for the “CONDITION CLEAR”
for the sword builds the acrobatics trait line lacks condition clear big time.
the thief sword builds r kinda pigeon holed around lyssa for the condi clear :S

people see the boons and think it is op
but in reality they don’t do that much for u.

but i do wish the condi clear was not limited to 5 conditions and maybe more than 5 seconds of boons now that u can only get them from actually clearing conditions

You still have the condi clear. When do you have more than 5 conditions on you? not often, I hope.

What was op was having stability and aegis, and getting the boons regardless of whether or not you used it to cleanse conditions. It is still a very good rune if you have low CD elites and need of condi removal.

Guess what? thief and mesmer still have low CD elites and need of condi removal.

no not often at all but it would be nice if it was not limited any way .

yes i under stand the benefits of stability and aegis.
like i said i dont mind the nerf … because we use it for the condition remove !
i dont need that gimmick.
it was such a short amount of protection.
in a fight vs a thief i would hope they would blow there elite like a fool
because i would stall them for 5 seconds and attack XD lol

it only hurt my play style if i used the elite with out using it as a condition remove

if anything this unintentionally teaches thieves to play more conservative and not do foolish things
like blow there elite to only gain a few seconds of boons.
that could be used against them with skills like corrupt boons the necro skill

#boons r over rated

Inexor.7804:

There’s no pleasure like anticipation.
I want to smell all the delicious tears from the thiefs and warriors and everyone else with this stupid rune.

Too bad those classes STILL can utilize the effect better than others just because they have low coodown elite skills. Like I said, the problem is the cooldown, not the effect. 5 condition removal + opposite boons is still good for 45 second cooldown.

Basilisk Venom it is more like a utility :S
Devourer Venom a utility skill has a longer duration compared to
Basilisk Venom a elite :S

mixing lyssa and basilisk venom is really the only thing Basilisk Venom has going for it as a elite :S

but the only way u will even out the time difference for different classes is if everyone had a 45 sec cool down elite

the only reason sword thieves u lyssa anyway is because the acrobatic trait line is so incredibly weak when it comes to condition removal

I have to smile at how closely they followed my suggestion for Lyssa Runes in the progression CDI . Converting 5 conditions was even more slick that remove 5 at random & grant 5 at random, but its still nice to see signs they are reading our posts.

What is the nerf and where was the information originally posted?

there was a picture from a video of lyssa when some one was showing the new pvp or something

lyssa will remove 5 conditions and give a boon for every condition removed

caveman.5840:

Basilisk Venom it is more like a utility :S
Devourer Venom a utility skill has a longer duration compared to
Basilisk Venom a elite :S

mixing lyssa and basilisk venom is really the only thing Basilisk Venom has going for it as a elite :S

but the only way u will even out the time difference for different classes is if everyone had a 45 sec cool down elite

the only reason sword thieves u lyssa anyway is because the acrobatic trait line is so incredibly weak when it comes to condition removal

… Because Trickery DP thieves have a lot of ways to remove conditions.

but they spec in to shadow arts for condition remove
there is no real reason to run lyssa on a back stab build ..
and they can easily stealth which makes a world of difference

sword builds dont usually use stealth or try not to as much

xFireize.6318:

Inexor.7804:

There’s no pleasure like anticipation.
I want to smell all the delicious tears from the thiefs and warriors and everyone else with this stupid rune.

Too bad those classes STILL can utilize the effect better than others just because they have low coodown elite skills. Like I said, the problem is the cooldown, not the effect. 5 condition removal + opposite boons is still good for 45 second cooldown.

the main and only good reason to run basilisk venom was for lyssa synergy.

other than giving you a semi reliable (as basilisk venom is very easily interrupted) condition clear and boons on a 45 second cooldown, it largely is useless since it has such a relatively low stun time, can be evaded/blocked/blinded/invuln’d, and can be stunbroken.

thief, like many other professions, has very little in the way of managing conditions on the monstrous scale they are now being abused without being forced into shadow arts or other build crippling methods of dealing with conditions, lyssa runes were the one way we could have some sort of appropriate, proportionate, response to the condition meta- and the reality is that the runes barely did that.

the condition meta needs to be toned down drastically before anyone could ever fairly say lyssa is/was overpowered.

Nike.2631:

I have to smile at how closely they followed my suggestion for Lyssa Runes in the progression CDI . Converting 5 conditions was even more slick that remove 5 at random & grant 5 at random, but its still nice to see signs they are reading our posts.

Huh.. that’s accurate and disappointing. I wish there were more discussions to it. If every class had an elite skill that has around 45 cooldown, I would not have any problems with it. The new nerfed effect is actually appropriate for the cooldown.

Lyssa Runes is a good set, but like others have stated, it’s dependent on the skill cool-down and not as much the effect itself.
It’s just completely stupid when your elite has something like under a 60sec cool-down and people have relied too heavily on that being their only condition cleanse, which is sad.

Overall, the nerf IS needed imo. And besides, at least the Sigil of Purity is changed so that it doesn’t rely on critical hits anymore (or is that the sigil of water I’m thinking of?)

if Basilisk Venom had more than a 45 sec cool down it would be the worst elite in the game … it is the equivalent of a normal utility skill …
it is like having a under powered 4 utility skill with lyssa being the only thing that gives it any credit :S

sinject.4607:

the main and only good reason to run basilisk venom was for lyssa synergy.

This is exactly the problem.

I don’t give a crap about condition meta. It doesn’t matter what the class is, if one doesn’t trait for handling conditions, then he/she should suffer from dealing with conditions. If you think the class still can’t handle conditions even if traited, bring it to the class discussion. Don’t rely on rune of lyssa to fix your class problem. If you say Basilisk Venom is semi reliable and useless, then ask them to fix it. What do you expect from a 45-second cooldown elite skill? Something super powerful? Of course it’s weaker than the others. That’s the point of cooldown: it’s related to how strong the skill is. Rune of Lyssa messes up that principle.

I too as a guardian should be able to say that I rely on rune of lyssa if I traited for fully DPS build without any traits for handling conditions. But you know what? I can’t because the guardian’s lowest elite skill cooldown is 90 seconds.

everyone asked for basilisk nerfs its ben nerfed.
thief cant ask for a buff lol
this is what we r forced to do lol. ….rely on a rune to play sword builds effectively
as sad as it sounds ..
thieves never get buffs only nerfs lol ..
asking for a buff even if it is reasonable it is impossible lol

caveman.5840:

but they spec in to shadow arts for condition remove
there is no real reason to run lyssa on a back stab build ..
and they can easily stealth which makes a world of difference

sword builds dont usually use stealth or try not to as much

I wrote “Trickery DP” for a reason.
SD thieves have Pain Response and Infiltrator Return for dealing with conditions (on top of Withdraw).
Trickery DP thieves have… Withdraw.

withdraw does not help with condition ? immobilize chill cripple :S
pain response would be reasonable if fleet foot was not garbage
if pain response could be coupled with a weak condition remove besides fleet foot.
sword builds would be slightly more flexible when it comes to conditions .
pain response is not much of a condition clear at all :S

any way looks like lyssa is nerfed

xFireize.6318:

sinject.4607:

the main and only good reason to run basilisk venom was for lyssa synergy.

This is exactly the problem.

I don’t give a crap about condition meta. It doesn’t matter what the class is, if one doesn’t trait for handling conditions, then he/she should suffer from dealing with conditions. If you think the class still can’t handle conditions even if traited, bring it to the class discussion. Don’t rely on rune of lyssa to fix your class problem. If you say Basilisk Venom is semi reliable and useless, then ask them to fix it. What do you expect from a 45-second cooldown elite skill? Something super powerful? Of course it’s weaker than the others. That’s the point of cooldown: it’s related to how strong the skill is. Rune of Lyssa messes up that principle.

I too as a guardian should be able to say that I rely on rune of lyssa if I traited for fully DPS build without any traits for handling conditions. But you know what? I can’t because the guardian’s lowest elite skill cooldown is 90 seconds.

never said I expected anything more out of basilisk venom, at it’s current cooldown especially, I’m just saying that it’s synergy with lyssa puts it at the level of usability. it is in no way broken considering where conditions are at the moment.

also, conditions should not, as should anything for that matter, go so unchecked and then be answered with the excuse of “well it’s your fault for not traiting for it!”; that is as weak of an argument I have ever heard.

this mode of thinking promotes the absolutely horrendous “hard-counter” balance model, profession/build overempowerment (warrior, necro, engie), and is viciously caustic at best to build diversity.

How is the current effect not broken? It’s stronger than “Save Yourself!” and Contemplation of Purity. Lyssa’s cooldown is also lower.

It’s called consequences. I choose the condition handler traits and expect to be able to cope better with conditions than those who don’t.

It’s not hard counter, you can’t just have everything. I don’t expect to have high DPS when I go bunker.

If condition meta is a problem, then it’s a whole different problem. Let anet fix that by actually fixing it, not by “balancing” other part of the game.

Is there any rune of lyssa apologists that are not a thief or warrior?

lyssa needed a nerf. asking for it to saty he way they are is like saying: please i wanna keep using my imbalanced op skill for the easy win!
fact is, lyssa was broken for some classes with low cd elite skills and the nerf is needed!

Why should lyssa have stab when runes like Rune of Sanctuary need to be at 20% hp for it to just get a stab and on a 90 sec cd 45 sec longer then Lyssa for the same amount of stab?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Sanctuary
vs
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa

Lyssa runes atm are way too much for a level 6 rune set there are classes that cant even pull off what Lyssa runes can do.

xFireize.6318:

How is the current effect not broken? It’s stronger than “Save Yourself!” and Contemplation of Purity. Lyssa’s cooldown is also lower.

It’s called consequences. I choose the condition handler traits and expect to be able to cope better with conditions than those who don’t.

It’s not hard counter, you can’t just have everything. I don’t expect to have high DPS when I go bunker.

If condition meta is a problem, then it’s a whole different problem. Let anet fix that by actually fixing it, not by “balancing” other part of the game.

Is there any rune of lyssa apologists that are not a thief or warrior?

wait what? are you being serious right now? well, you’ve lost your validity either way.

“only if you go out of your way to handle something should you be able to do so”

“this is not a hard-counter”

seriously if you’re going to try to carry out this vendetta against thieves and warriors at least try.

also lol @ the guy comparing good runes against garbage ones

“why isn’t sigil of justice as good as sigil of force???? NERF PLS”

selan.8354:

lyssa needed a nerf. asking for it to saty he way they are is like saying: please i wanna keep using my imbalanced op skill for the easy win!
fact is, lyssa was broken for some classes with low cd elite skills and the nerf is needed!

When has that ever stopped Warr.. Ok not constructive, but in before part of the Warrior community claim is was a targeted nerf (like all quickness and life steal pies.)

I would wait to see what rune sets there are on the 15th.

sinject.4607:

Never said I expected anything more out of basilisk venom, at it’s current cooldown especially, I’m just saying that it’s synergy with lyssa puts it at the level of usability. it is in no way broken considering where conditions are at the moment.

You can say that, but the people with top-down view and charged with the health of the game clearly don’t agree .

Like I said earlier, its almost exactly the change I asked for, and the reason I asked for it was after coming to the Thief board looking to refine some theorycraft it became a common refrain than no other set of runes would see play as long as Lyssa was available. I have no doubt the devs did a quick data-base sift of Level 80 competitive Burglars and found an overwhelming number of them rocking Lyssa. That’s a sign there’s a problem that NO AMOUNT of pleading from a player that uses them will dispel.

xFireize.6318:

I’m actually not impressed with the nerf. The problem was the cooldown, not the effect.

I would agree that the cooldown was the issue, not the actual effect. Although I think they might be trying to stay away from cooldowns that long on runes/sigils, so maybe they felt kitten was a nice place to be at.

I still feel they’ll probably be used a fair bit even after they’re nerfed, but I guess we’ll see.

sinject.4607:

xFireize.6318:

How is the current effect not broken? It’s stronger than “Save Yourself!” and Contemplation of Purity. Lyssa’s cooldown is also lower.

It’s called consequences. I choose the condition handler traits and expect to be able to cope better with conditions than those who don’t.

It’s not hard counter, you can’t just have everything. I don’t expect to have high DPS when I go bunker.

If condition meta is a problem, then it’s a whole different problem. Let anet fix that by actually fixing it, not by “balancing” other part of the game.

Is there any rune of lyssa apologists that are not a thief or warrior?

wait what? are you being serious right now? well, you’ve lost your validity either way.

“only if you go out of your way to handle something should you be able to do so”

“this is not a hard-counter”

seriously if you’re going to try to carry out this vendetta against thieves and warriors at least try.

also lol @ the guy comparing good runes against garbage ones

“why isn’t sigil of justice as good as sigil of force???? NERF PLS”

Yikes.. You got me. Your earlier post was well-written so I thought I could make a healthy argument with your context. Turned out inside you’re just one of the QQers who likes to attack the validity of a person’s argument and screams “That argument is weak!”. Oh btw, it’s a video game, not rocket science. It’s not complicated. Nice job tricking me though, I’ll give you that.

So far debating with thief apologists are like boxing against jelly.

i liked lyssa on my ranger more than on my thief because i could really use the boons.

i would mix rampage as one. and the pet siamoth skill to consume plasma to easily gain 30 sec of stability and other boons for a LONG TIME ….
plus i would use the elite to gain aegis to actively block back stabs.

the thief may have a shorter cool down . but the boons only stay for 5 sec. which really is nothing.

i dont see the cool down as a issue

Nike.2631:

You can say that, but the people with top-down view and charged with the health of the game clearly don’t agree .

Like I said earlier, its almost exactly the change I asked for, and the reason I asked for it was after coming to the Thief board looking to refine some theorycraft it became a common refrain than no other set of runes would see play as long as Lyssa was available. I have no doubt the devs did a quick data-base sift of Level 80 competitive Burglars and found an overwhelming number of them rocking Lyssa. That’s a sign there’s a problem that NO AMOUNT of pleading from a player that uses them will dispel.

by saying that the fact that lyssa is so popular and therefore is the issue is missing the point completely.

lyssa runes are largely a reactionary measure forced onto thieves as the condition meta has worsened; if lyssa only granted 1 or 2 boons, or hell even none, yet still cleared all conditions, usage would barely drop at all- even with the actual nerf going into effect tomorrow i don’t see many planning on dropping lyssa runes (including myself) as it’s one of the few ways thieves can counter conditions at all.

to say that a rune set that gives much needed ‘vs. condi’ viability to anything that’s not a stealth-heavy SA build is a bad thing is something a condition player would say.

what they have done here is take a rune that was viable for a lot of classes / builds.
this was a over looked pvp rune for ever till the condition meta increased…
than popularity went up

and now has ben nerfed only based on an idea that the thief has a unfair advantage because of cool down.

when in fact theres other classes that can take advantage of the boons better than the thief.

this hurts other classes more than the thief because we only use it for the
condition clear.
the 5 seconds of boons is pretty unimpressive to a thief compared to other classes that can take advantaged of the boons better

Lyssa runes needed a nerf.

caveman.5840:

what they have done here is take a rune that was viable for a lot of classes / builds.
this was a over looked pvp rune for ever till the condition meta increased…
than popularity went up

If you look at the basic design of the rune, it was hardly conceptualized as a condi-clear setup. Its boons are the pivotal element, yet that never played out in practice.

all i am saying is the nerf does not hurt my thief lol
and i am a thief that uses dagger storm a 90 sec cool down elite with lyssa

it hurts my ranger lol or any class that can stack boons better than the thief …
thief is not good at stacking boons at all.

i feel like lyssa had a lot of mis placed hate .
the whole reason the whole nerf lyssa thing started is because people where seeing thieves with full boons

The runes functionality is just fine if you ask me. As already mentiones, they just need a 90s ICD on the 6 piece set .

thats the worst idea ever . makes it so basilisk venom is broken on lyssa.

the low cool down is not much a advantage

specially when i can get like 30 sec of full boons on a ranger . i did not mind a longer cool down because i had a better and longer lasting effect .
vs 5 sec of boons that can easily be stalled

classes with out aegis could actively block a back stab with there elite.

Ahh, I see. It is only a bad idea because it equalizes your preferred professions benefit to that of the other profession.

That is brilliant balance philosophy by the way.

what ever u say lol .
i am not going to sit here and talk about all the ways every class can use lyssa now thats it is changing.

but lyssa will not be leaving my thief as long as i need the condition clear