Guild Wars 2

yo waddup, (you dont have to read everything to discuss it…..i know that would be too much for most^^)

just wanted to give my oppinion about elementalists scepter weaponset: (pvp perspective, i didnt play any other gamemode much at all)

as it is right now, scepter simply cant be viable. you have no sustained dmg, and scepter makes you worse of a guy that can stand on point than dagger. you dont have the huge aoe stuff staff has, scepter just has its burst. thats what its good at. meaning to run scepter somewhat viable you have to rely on this burst. meaning you have to go for an offensive build – something that isnt optimal for elementalist, cause mesmer aswell as thief are superior at it, and thiefs take you out of a fight as easy, if not easier as they can take out mesmers.
thats why i think scepter needs a sustained dmg buff – while its instant/unavoidable dmg needs to be nerfed.

at first i want to give some nerf ideas:

lightning flash: a port that can deal up to 3.5k dmg on a D/D cele build with some mights….dk…think a port shouldnt be supposed to be a big dmg source. nerfing the dmg would be part of nerfing the instant dmg overall, which si good imo

lightning strike: unavoidable/ instant….think i dont have to say more…it needs a slight(!) dmg nerf….maybe even a redisign…smth like a 0.5s delay with an instant animation to make it avoidable

phoenix: actually i think its damage is fine cuz its a skillshot. but, other ppl said this before aswell, the soundeffect should start as soon as you start CASTING the skill.
and the casttime maybe should be 1/2s instead of 1/4 sec…im not sure about this, maybe the soundeffect is enough to make it really avoidable in melee range

now the buffs:
actually, pretty much everything i would buff are autoattacks/ sustained dmg^^
if the sustained dmg of scepter wouldnt suck that hard, i think it could be a viable option.
fire: decrease cast to 3/4s down from 1 1/4…right now its way too clumsy….it wont be the best then aswell, but it would be ok i guess
water: imo thats fine
air: needs a major dmg buff; compared to e.g. mesmer gs or even thief sb its dmg is just too low; improving the dmg should fix the sustained dmg problem imo.
earth: too clumsy; should start shooting the projectiles immideatly; not starting after ca1 sec casttime

another thing that needs to be adressed to make scepter more viable is daggerdaggerceleele…nerf the burnduration from drakes breath, fix air1canceling, there were already a lot of good suggestions; nerf battle sigil and maybe mightduration on runes. gg. i think that would balance the spec tbh.

theres one more thing i wanted to adress that just came into my mind
only viable amulett for ele is celestial. i think there should be another one. valkyrie is a great amulett imo. but you cant rly use it cuz ele lacks hp.
i think if you would split the toughness part to like 50% toughness, 50% vitality(or even more vitality) it could be another viable option for a more offensive version of elementalists.

thanks for reading even though i doubt anyone read this wall of text through :P
probably its more like a dream; but i want to see scepter being viable in tpvp again

pls discuss!…stay constructive if possible.

This is just a thinly veiled ‘Nerf Cel D/D’ thread and makes it hard to take serious tbh. Scepter has MUCH better built in survival with the range and defensive skills that cover two of Ele’s major weaknesses. This is made even more so when paired with a focus. It can also stack Might very well. A well played S/F Ele is truly menacing and can hardly be considered “not ‘viable’”.

im curious, if its viable, why didnt we see any of them in any tornament for like a year?
…just saying

In my opinion scepter just needs a redesign for a lot of the skills. Dragons tooth is useless 99% of the time, and shatter stone are absolutely useless 100% of the time. It is a weapon that has some extremely powerful/op skills, and some useless skills which as a personal preference I just don’t like. It results in play styles such as yolo burst where you unload every strong skill you have then run around like a headless chicken till they are back off cool down. If scepter is to be anything other than this type of game play, then skills such as lightning strike, and phoenix need to be toned down a bit while making the auto attacks, shatterstone, and dragon’s tooth worth their cast times.

However we already do have dagger where every skill is useful, so perhaps leaving scepter in this state is necessary to keep them different in a way other than range. That just means I will personally stick to dagger unless it is nerfed to complete non viability.

Curiously off hand dagger vs. focus has the same issue, some really strong skills on focus (magnetic wave, swirling winds, and obsidian flesh) vs. all the skills on off hand dagger being useful (except churning earth to an extent).

B/c people like running other things for point control reasons in pvp I guess would be a reason. The AoE of Daggers and staff would be another reason. The ‘no-target’ nature of dagger’s blast finishers makes it easier to frontload the damage even if it makes less during an extended fight. The high survive and damage from the meta dagger build makes taking a ranged and more defensive oriented option redundant to some. Are these enough or do I need to go further? None of these things make S/x “not ‘viable’”. (Viable=/=optimal for any given situation.)

Tman.6349:

B/c people like running other things for point control reasons in pvp I guess would be a reason. The AoE of Daggers and staff would be another reason. The ‘no-target’ nature of dagger’s blast finishers makes it easier to frontload the damage even if it makes less during an extended fight. The high survive and damage from the meta dagger build makes taking a ranged and more defensive oriented option redundant to some. Are these enough or do I need to go further? None of these things make S/x “not ‘viable’”. (Viable=/=optimal for any given situation.)

viable= playable in top tier play without crippling your team.
S/x isnt “viable”.
actually i think thats enough to prove everything you said against it invadlid. dk.

and i think its a “balance the game” thread…nerfing thiefs possibility to shut almost every other zerker stuff out of the meta and nerfing D/D eles is part of it.

these comments really remind me of why i dont like posting in the forums, but like reading them….
ppl claiming to know what is going on without even understanding what is being talked about

Yes is absolutely is viable.

Sickness.9831:

. Please nerf teefs

So why exactly does nerfing dd all of a sudden make s/x viable? It isn’t like dd shuts down s/x, as you stated that is what thieves do. The two builds aren’t competing for the same role since they are completely different builds that serve different purposes. Sure they are both ele’s but they are not builds competing against each other. Nerfing dd won’t make s/x viable because people will not think “hmm let’s use the next best ele build” they will think “let’s use the next best bruiser (hambow, condi engi) build.” All you would get is a meta with less ele’s because teams don’t need “eles”, they need builds which when it is dd vs s/x it is apples to oranges. Go back to before the big feature patch where dd was even less viable than s/x is now, did that make s/x viable? no it just made both ele builds nonviable. I am not saying dd shouldn’t be shaved, but shaving it won’t make s/x magically viable.

ArthurDent.9538:

So why exactly does nerfing dd all of a sudden make s/x viable? It isn’t like dd shuts down s/x, as you stated that is what thieves do. The two builds aren’t competing for the same role since they are completely different builds that serve different purposes. Sure they are both ele’s but they are not builds competing against each other. Nerfing dd won’t make s/x viable because people will not think “hmm let’s use the next best ele build” they will think “let’s use the next best bruiser (hambow, condi engi) build.” All you would get is a meta with less ele’s because teams don’t need “eles”, they need builds which when it is dd vs s/x it is apples to oranges. Go back to before the big feature patch where dd was even less viable than s/x is now, did that make s/x viable? no it just made both ele builds nonviable. I am not saying dd shouldn’t be shaved, but shaving it won’t make s/x magically viable.

sry did only read the first sentence, too lazy to read more tho

that is, by no means, what ive said:
only thing i said is that making S/x viable requires the game to get balanced; which includes nerfing the op D/Dceleele, and buffing scepter(or nerfing pretty much all the dmg output ingame)…and literaly noone can tell me that D/D cele isnt op.

Sickness.9831:

ArthurDent.9538:

So why exactly does nerfing dd all of a sudden make s/x viable? It isn’t like dd shuts down s/x, as you stated that is what thieves do. The two builds aren’t competing for the same role since they are completely different builds that serve different purposes. Sure they are both ele’s but they are not builds competing against each other. Nerfing dd won’t make s/x viable because people will not think “hmm let’s use the next best ele build” they will think “let’s use the next best bruiser (hambow, condi engi) build.” All you would get is a meta with less ele’s because teams don’t need “eles”, they need builds which when it is dd vs s/x it is apples to oranges. Go back to before the big feature patch where dd was even less viable than s/x is now, did that make s/x viable? no it just made both ele builds nonviable. I am not saying dd shouldn’t be shaved, but shaving it won’t make s/x magically viable.

sry did only read the first sentence, too lazy to read more tho

that is, by no means, what ive said:
only thing i said is that making S/x viable requires the game to get balanced; which includes nerfing the op D/Dceleele, and buffing scepter(or nerfing pretty much all the dmg output ingame)…and literaly noone can tell me that D/D cele isnt op.

Well here is the thing, why do you specifically target dd ele, as opposed to all of the other meta builds that are nearly as strong (engi is arguably stronger). If anything you should be attacking the ones that actually are competing with s/x (thief, mesmer, medi guard). DD ele is strong right now no doubt, but it is not even close to the reason for s/x’s non viability which was shown by how the previous meta (which was completely dd free) and s/x was still non viable. This is why you got called you out for a " thinly veiled ‘Nerf Cel D/D’ thread".

ArthurDent.9538:

Sickness.9831:

ArthurDent.9538:

So why exactly does nerfing dd all of a sudden make s/x viable? It isn’t like dd shuts down s/x, as you stated that is what thieves do. The two builds aren’t competing for the same role since they are completely different builds that serve different purposes. Sure they are both ele’s but they are not builds competing against each other. Nerfing dd won’t make s/x viable because people will not think “hmm let’s use the next best ele build” they will think “let’s use the next best bruiser (hambow, condi engi) build.” All you would get is a meta with less ele’s because teams don’t need “eles”, they need builds which when it is dd vs s/x it is apples to oranges. Go back to before the big feature patch where dd was even less viable than s/x is now, did that make s/x viable? no it just made both ele builds nonviable. I am not saying dd shouldn’t be shaved, but shaving it won’t make s/x magically viable.

sry did only read the first sentence, too lazy to read more tho

that is, by no means, what ive said:
only thing i said is that making S/x viable requires the game to get balanced; which includes nerfing the op D/Dceleele, and buffing scepter(or nerfing pretty much all the dmg output ingame)…and literaly noone can tell me that D/D cele isnt op.

Well here is the thing, why do you specifically target dd ele, as opposed to all of the other meta builds that are nearly as strong (engi is arguably stronger). If anything you should be attacking the ones that actually are competing with s/x (thief, mesmer, medi guard). DD ele is strong right now no doubt, but it is not even close to the reason for s/x’s non viability which was shown by how the previous meta (which was completely dd free) and s/x was still non viable. This is why you got called you out for a " thinly veiled ‘Nerf Cel D/D’ thread".

D/D was just an example i brought up. could have been cele engi or thief/mesmer aswell. it was just an example. i said you would have to balance, what includes(<- !!!!) nerfing D/Dcele ele.

yeah you are right, i think i didnt clarify it well enough. D/D ele isnt the main reason why S/x isnt viable.
the previous meta btw wasnt only D/D free, it was ele free. ofc i dont want the meta to be ele free. but i want a weaponset that has like the highest skilled-play potential(imo) of all weaponsets ele got to be viable. buffing it in certain aspects therefore would help.

Has anyone seen Zoose on an s/f ele….

NeXeD.3042:

Has anyone seen Zoose on an s/f ele….

Only in Soloq so it doesnt count :P

IMO, S/F eles are very strong. A zerker amulet ele running 0 6/0/4/4 S/F is a perfectly viable dueling elementalist, and fares well against teefs, less well against mesmers of the PU variety (especially if they’re good at chaining their stealth to maintain the most invisibility time). Most thieves are more predictable in stealth in comparison to a mesmer in a 1v1 setting.

with the focus offhand, you are able to complete rotations that are offensive and defensive, the latter while you wait for your phoenix and lightning flash to come off cooldown. Start in fire, 2, 4, 3 (LF) 5 -> switch to air, (321)and when you’re almost ready to leave air for another attunement, use swirling winds and rotate to earth(23). If you’re fighting a ranged hero, you’re now at a slight advantage within the swirling winds. apply damage with earth 2 and blind, watch and wait for a burst to use your obsidian flesh or reflect for a melee or ranged burst respectively. Switch to water heal, (453)comet and chill them, and your fire burst should be ready yet again.

equally glassy classes like thieves and mesmers who are not prepared for you can and will die in less than 3 seconds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c2XBKKmDrQ&feature=youtu.be&t=12m21s), and the focus skills give you much of the defensive utility that you need for a sustained fight, as well as a clutch CC skill that will secure many a burst.

While it takes significantly more care to set up fire fields and finishers with s/f, you are still able to blast the dragon tooth, phoenix, magnetic wave and comet on the fire 4 fire field.

Sickness.9831:

Tman.6349:

B/c people like running other things for point control reasons in pvp I guess would be a reason. The AoE of Daggers and staff would be another reason. The ‘no-target’ nature of dagger’s blast finishers makes it easier to frontload the damage even if it makes less during an extended fight. The high survive and damage from the meta dagger build makes taking a ranged and more defensive oriented option redundant to some. Are these enough or do I need to go further? None of these things make S/x “not ‘viable’”. (Viable=/=optimal for any given situation.)

viable= playable in top tier play without crippling your team.
S/x isnt “viable”.
actually i think thats enough to prove everything you said against it invadlid. dk.

and i think its a “balance the game” thread…nerfing thiefs possibility to shut almost every other zerker stuff out of the meta and nerfing D/D eles is part of it.

these comments really remind me of why i dont like posting in the forums, but like reading them….
ppl claiming to know what is going on without even understanding what is being talked about

…
sry did only read the first sentence, too lazy to read more tho

That’s what most of your comments show, lack of understanding and a great deal of arrogance. Some people here give much better ideas on how to make scepter viable than you, which is rather sad considering you play on one of the top pvp teams.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Sickness.9831:

Tman.6349:

B/c people like running other things for point control reasons in pvp I guess would be a reason. The AoE of Daggers and staff would be another reason. The ‘no-target’ nature of dagger’s blast finishers makes it easier to frontload the damage even if it makes less during an extended fight. The high survive and damage from the meta dagger build makes taking a ranged and more defensive oriented option redundant to some. Are these enough or do I need to go further? None of these things make S/x “not ‘viable’”. (Viable=/=optimal for any given situation.)

viable= playable in top tier play without crippling your team.
S/x isnt “viable”.
actually i think thats enough to prove everything you said against it invadlid. dk.

and i think its a “balance the game” thread…nerfing thiefs possibility to shut almost every other zerker stuff out of the meta and nerfing D/D eles is part of it.

these comments really remind me of why i dont like posting in the forums, but like reading them….
ppl claiming to know what is going on without even understanding what is being talked about

…
sry did only read the first sentence, too lazy to read more tho

That’s what most of your comments show, lack of understanding and a great deal of arrogance. Some people here give much better ideas on how to make scepter viable than you, which is rather sad considering you play on one of the top pvp teams.

Yeah you are completlely right, i was in a terrible mood yesterday, sorry for that. I dont play in a this team anymore

There for sure are way better ideas of how to make scepter viable; i didnt think much about what ive suggested..actually i didnt think about it at all, just wrote a few things down and hoped to get some other suggestions….scince noone brought something up i guess i failed, i apologize. I am just tired of knowing that d/d would pretty much always be the better thing to take.. just dont want to have to play these boring cele builds whenever i rly want to win vs a top team..
Guess you cant have everything…..either a fun build or a boring build and fun by winning vs good teams

hope i could keep my arogance-level tho :P

S/x is viable just not optimal.

Not all weapons are suppose to be good in all game mode.

D/D is not ideal for PvE, S/X is not ideal for PvP
D/D is really good in PvP, S/X is really good in PvE

Thaddeus.4891:

Not all weapons are suppose to be good in all game mode.

D/D is not ideal for PvE, S/X is not ideal for PvP
D/D is really good in PvP, S/X is really good in PvE

That is one of this game “problems”, there’s less variety, not all weapons are designed to fill roles in all modes, it looks a slacker way to try balancing the game.

Aeolus.3615:

Thaddeus.4891:

Not all weapons are suppose to be good in all game mode.

D/D is not ideal for PvE, S/X is not ideal for PvP
D/D is really good in PvP, S/X is really good in PvE

That is one of this game “problems”, there’s less variety, not all weapons are designed to fill roles in all modes, it looks a slacker way to try balancing the game.

I don’t see that as a problem. You CAN’T make all weapons good in all game mode. You live in a fairy tail world if you think that’s possible. The 3 game mode have different needs, some are overlapping, but other are not.
CC have limited use in PvP, but not in PvE.
Healing have an important role in PvP, but not in PvE.
Mobility have an important role in PvP, but not in PvE.

Any weapons that focus on that and don’t have high level of dmg have limited role in PvE, but not in PvP.

WTB better scepter auto.