Guild Wars 2

null field is broken, and not working as intended. please fix.

from wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field

Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 40 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 5 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Notes
This skill pulses once per second, removing one boon/condition per target per pulse.

^ this is wrong, and does not fit the description at all.
no, do not edit the description, fix the skill so that it does what it is intended to do.

- remove all boons
- cures all conditions

for the entire duration while being inside the null field.

it is called a null field, please make it behave like one!

no, it will not be overpowered at all but instead working as intended to be after the fix. at the moment, it is a broken skill, good for etheral combos every 40 seconds.

oh, the recharge timer should be 30 seconds instead of 40 seconds.
also, duration should be 6 s and not 5 s.

as such, meet the null field as how it should have been:

Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 30 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 6 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Notes
This skill pulses once per second, removing all boons and conditions per target per pulse.

discuss!

update:

if removing all boons conditions per pulse is too powerful, what about:

proposal by myself:
Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 30 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 6 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Notes
This skill pulses once per second, removing 2 boons from enemies and 2 conditions from allies per target per pulse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

proposal by Carighan (make it a bit larger and last 2 s longer)
Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 40 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 7 s
Radius: 360
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

null field is broken, and not working as intended. please fix.

from wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field

Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 40 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 5 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Notes
This skill pulses once per second, removing one boon/condition per target per pulse.

^ this is wrong, and does not fit the description at all.
no, do not edit the description, fix the skill so that it does what it is intended to do.

- remove all boons
- cures all conditions

for the entire duration while being inside the null field.

it is called a null field, please make it behave like one!

no, it will not be overpowered at all but instead working as intended to be after the fix. at the moment, it is a broken skill, good for etheral combos every 40 seconds.

oh, the recharge timer should be 30 seconds instead of 40 seconds.
also, duration should be 6 s and not 5 s.

as such, meet the null field as how it should have been:

Null Field | ¼ Activation time | 30 Recharge time
“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 6 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

Notes
This skill pulses once per second, removing all boons and conditions per target per pulse.

discuss!

i am a mesmer, and i gotta tell u that this would be totally op, its not only self, its aoe, and it harms enemy as well. its a great skill alrdy, but making it doing all boons / conditions at once is a bit.. too much i guess

dont get me wrong, i would love having it

no what it does now is what it’s suppose to do. it can remove all boons and it can remove all condition it just does it one at a time per pulse. if your confused by this you should be asking for a tool tip change

Wyrden,
i often see people complain about might stacking, this should help silence those complains a bit perhaps?

Tadsoul,
1 boon / 1 condition per pulse is too slow.
5 pulses over 5 seconds is too short.
40 seconds recharge time is too long.
should be at least

2 boons / 2 conditions per pulse.
6 pulses over 6 seconds.
30 seconds recharge timer.

this skill is good, but it could be better.

lets make it better!

If the skill only worked for curing conditions there would be no problem in buffing it.
But the skill also remove boons AND creates a field and you can trait that field to other things also.
The skill is already strong as it is.

Your buff will make it completely OP.

You might want to do some tests to see if the boon removal order is similar to what Necro skills are. You can do another set of tests to see which conditions are removed as well.

Necro-Boon-Removal-Priorities

It’s sad that the two boons you want to remove, might and stability, are low on the priority list for Necros

I thought OP was just taking the kitten out of Illusionary Leap’s fix, where it was changed to suit the description. So (even though it would be realllyyy OP) is the same not done to null field? ^^

The only boon clear skill hat I know of is Lich Form #5, which is a 30 second CD within a 30 second skill on a 180 second cooldown, not to mention its very slow. If Null Field ripped all boons instantly it would need a giant cooldown and way better telegraphing to be balanced, and I think it’s a fairly popular skill as it is.

So ANet, now we will see: are fixing skills according to tooltips (like you nerfedfixed ileap) your job or you don’t like/lose to/want delete mesmer.

I rather like the idea of buffing null field. It would give mesmers a solid place in the meta (like thief shadow refuge/boon steal) and be a danger to greedy condi spam and celestial builds… Which is exactly what the game needs.

Sure as hell a lot better than teams running shout guardian + double 0/0/10/30/30 eles just to manage the kittenstorm

Heyyyy someone read my post from the list of Mesmer stuff that’s broken and should get fixed.

Wooo… too bad I’m not credited in the OP.

I can’t think of anything you could do to make Mesmer OP at the moment. Null field is yet another on the long list of stealth nerfs, oops I mean broken skills.

I think it used to work that way and then they nerfed it. Same as with a lot of other class skills such a necros corrupt boons, wells, rangers empathic bond etc. probably decided it punished condi builds too much.

Esplen.3940:

Heyyyy someone read my post from the list of Mesmer stuff that’s broken and should get fixed.

Wooo… too bad I’m not credited in the OP.

sorry i did not read your list.
i just noticed this recently after trying out null field in hotjoin recently and checking out the wiki then releasing it does not remove all boons at one go.

so what if only lich form can remove all boons? the recharge time is 30 seconds as well, not 40 seconds. and lich form comes with other things, so the 180 seconds recharge time does not really count.

i say boon removal must be made more stronger, because people still complain about might stacking and all.

obviously, boon removal is not strong enough.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Esplen.3940:

Heyyyy someone read my post from the list of Mesmer stuff that’s broken and should get fixed.

Wooo… too bad I’m not credited in the OP.

sorry i did not read your list.
i just noticed this recently after trying out null field in hotjoin recently and checking out the wiki then releasing it does not remove all boons at one go.

so what if only lich form can remove all boons? the recharge time is 30 seconds as well, not 40 seconds. and lich form comes with other things, so the 180 seconds recharge time does not really count.

i say boon removal must be made more stronger, because people still complain about might stacking and all.

obviously, boon removal is not strong enough.

I’m saying there is only one AOE boon clear, and it’s gated behind an elite skill cooldown. If you keep null field with its current radius, it’s current cast time and animation, it’s current cooldown to do what you’re suggesting, it would be crazy OP.

Don’t get me wrong, I think there needs to be more boon clears. But this is the type of buff that results in massive, regular scheduled beatings with the nerfbat, because it is way, way too strong.

Roe,

like i said earlier, the comparison is invalid, because lich form comes with other packages.

what if it is done in baby steps instead, say

“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
2 boons / 2 conditions per pulse.
6 pulses over 6 seconds.
30 seconds recharge timer.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Roe,

like i said earlier, the comparison is invalid, because lich form comes with other packages.

what if it is done in baby steps instead, say

“Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.”
2 boons / 2 conditions per pulse.
6 pulses over 6 seconds.
30 seconds recharge timer.

I’m not sure that is what you outlined in the OP. But regardless it remains the only comparison because it is literally the only other skill that does that, and it does that from a gigantic telegraph and cooldown. Plus, it is without a doubt the most powerful skill on lich form, so recreating it with null field is really out there as a suggestion.

By the way I’m still referring to the instant, AOE, 30 second cooldown full boon clear you had outlined.

I’d actually love it if the field would temporarily suppress all effects.
Everything you see in the buff/debuff bars would not work while inside it. Food, boons, conditions, special effects, haste, nothing. Ofc, the moment you leave the field or the field ends, all effects apply as normal again. You could even still apply boons and conditions inside the field, they’d just have 0 effect. Super-pause-mode for effects.

Roe,
yes, that was what i originally proposed, but since there is feedback that it may be too powerful, so, i presented a baby step version in the replies. i shall go and append it in the original post now so new people participating in this topic may see it.

Carighan,
wow, that would be, super cool!

i’m not sure if they could code something like that though.

Hey guys I think anet just wants to delete mesmer huh.

I mean you’d think the skill would do what it description says it does but nope.

Another one of those “since release” problems.

Carighan.6758:

I’d actually love it if the field would temporarily suppress all effects.
Everything you see in the buff/debuff bars would not work while inside it. Food, boons, conditions, special effects, haste, nothing. Ofc, the moment you leave the field or the field ends, all effects apply as normal again. You could even still apply boons and conditions inside the field, they’d just have 0 effect. Super-pause-mode for effects.

Yep!
Very cool, but yeah, questions around how easy it would be to code.

Seriously, the proposed fix is OP is perhaps a touch too much. Glamors are supposed to be group utility rather then personal but null field in a group it still lacking somewhat. With WvW in mind perhaps a larger radius and removing the AOE cap on it?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Esplen.3940:

Heyyyy someone read my post from the list of Mesmer stuff that’s broken and should get fixed.

Wooo… too bad I’m not credited in the OP.

sorry i did not read your list.

It’s not MY list, but it’s a part of a thread in the Mesmer section that was: “List your top three Mesmer bugs to get fixed” where my response was:

Esplen.3940:

Xyonon.3987:

Warden, Staff, Sword 3. Everything else is ok imo. Focus reflection works fine, yet ppl don’t know how it works on curtain…

It’s because unless you drop the curtain directly on the mob (doesn’t work if they’re tall/shoot it from high up) you have to drop the curtain so the visual actually touches the projectile. Wall of Reflection is a lot larger (bigger vertical axis) which means it can actually hit things. Additionally, a player can jump while using WoR to make it go even higher at the risk of things hitting the floor right in front of the wall (engie nades aimed very, very well which doesn’t really happen in PvE).

1. Triumphant Distortion
This skill is supposed to have no ICD. It’s not broken because Invulnerability doesn’t stack intensity so it would be like stacking Chaos Armor. Sure, you can’t get hit, but how many things can you kill within 3 seconds as a Mesmer? Can you do it indefinitely? Also, in PvE, if you can’t get hit long enough, you can’t hit mobs either, so you’d just hit yourself in the face by staggering it too hard. Also, you (Arenanet) did say that we would get it with no ICD.

2. Winds of Chaos
Seriously. Nobody wants Vulnerability on a 33% chance 3/4s cast time.

3. Null Field
Nobody notices this but: “rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies.” does not translate to “Pulses every second for 5 seconds targeting only 5 allies and enemies.” I don’t care where you learned English, those are two fundamentally different statements and if we’re going by the standard Mesmer skill updates, it would mean that the functionality of the skill should match the description, not the other way around. Otherwise, revert the iLeap.

Neptune.2570:

With WvW in mind perhaps a larger radius and removing the AOE cap on it?

AE cap removal is always a bit… nya. Dunno. Could go overboard.
Maybe just increasing radius slightly and lengthening it by ~2 seconds.

Yeah, no. Null Field is working as is, having it remove everything, or double, is very overpowered. Moderately removing boons, moderately removing conditions, all is well.

About the changes you’re proposing….

Guys, you should not forget that specially WvW is a team game so imagine what 3-4 mesmers could do with the nullfield changes you’re proposing. They would definitely become meta.

The ability they way it is right now is in a good spot. Perhaps the only thing i don’t like about it is that you can not choose to rip boons or conditions while in it. I would definitely like to see a way to choose among the 2 options.

About the “real nullfield” i would be such a powerfull ability hat it would need to become elite and have a big cooldown. Maybe since haste is no longer usefull due to several nerfs it had its time to revamp the glamour elite to a “more elite effect”. Hovewer i think it still would be also OP.
Good idea though, devs should listen to this. Even being OP i would love to try this on WvW. A tool definitely designed to determine wich group takes more advantage of it. Organiced groups would love it.

Dondagora.9645:

Yeah, no. Null Field is working as is, having it remove everything, or double, is very overpowered. Moderately removing boons, moderately removing conditions, all is well.

i see.
what if the radius and duration is increased?
say

240 > 360
5 s > 8 s

how would that fare?
it would be a more defensive condition shield then, since standing inside would mean removing 8 conditions over 8 seconds.

enemies would obviously move out of the circle as soon as possible to avoid being boon stripped.

aye, thanks for the feedback and explanation everyone!
keep them coming!

IMO this skill is lackluster since the glamour nerf. On it’s own it’s just weak compared with the more directed necrofields. The only things that makes it a little interesting for me is the combo effect (chaos armor).
It’s a bad boon removal compared to our other options because it’s too slow and noone with eyes will stand in it for the full duration.
It’s a bad condition removal because an enemy with aefields will know where to aim them.
Since both effects are combined it becomes a mediocre skill with good comboeffects.

If the field was the size of the “warrior longbow max sized burst firefield” it would be harder to just leave the effected zone.

In large scale battles the most important thing about it really is just the comboeffect. You will not get the full duration of both effects, if even of one, ever.. Condition removal is someone elses job and can be done with the mantra better anyway and boon removal should be on point to really make an impact before the boon is applied again.

So what I suggest is a bigger area with a more burst like effect (short duration + strong effect) on a shorter cooldown.

As I said before, it’s the same for necros, the wells got nerfed into 1 condi per sec as well. Both it and null field were more powerful but got nerfed as they punished condition and buff specs too much.

Edit: to help clarify further, the reason it probably says it removes all boons is this is the way it used to work and they need to update the description.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dondagora.9645:

Yeah, no. Null Field is working as is, having it remove everything, or double, is very overpowered. Moderately removing boons, moderately removing conditions, all is well.

i see.
what if the radius and duration is increased?
say

240 > 360
5 s > 8 s

how would that fare?
it would be a more defensive condition shield then, since standing inside would mean removing 8 conditions over 8 seconds.

enemies would obviously move out of the circle as soon as possible to avoid being boon stripped.

aye, thanks for the feedback and explanation everyone!
keep them coming!

That essentially makes it AOE berserker stance.

Atleast nullfield could effect 5 ally with 5 foe together.. Is it worked as it ?
And dodge can evade nullfield?
And aegis invis or blind on caster has some effects?
What is its cleans and rip orders? Or is it effecting from last/first order? Or random?
How skill chooses its tags? Who are most close to middle of skill? And party have priority to choose its ally?
If players swap each other in nullfield, swap as closer/further to mid?

Those are the questions that i would like to know first!

Anyway why i dont see nulfield is usefull in organized wvw large scale groups

• mesmers have 2 skill slot already must, veil blink, so last one should be the survival skills as decoy or mirror images or if u hybrid mantra is MoConcentration,
  - in pug or blob zergs play however u liked to but in competitive fights as guild raid vs guild raid, or gvg as in os
  Mesmers is lacking aoe pressure so better join small scale group in your zerg and hunter peripheries as who are not in melee train players or hunter enemies hunters.. So nullfield on mesmers is sux in this way..

Or be a pug or blob for zergs and play however u liked to game in wvw.. Fun..

@OP: aka ileap +1 = anets intelligent balance philosophy.. = play however u liked to play in wvw..

Null field is fine, any buff to it makes it OP and a must-have skill for any kind of team fights.

Why do you say mesmer OP always, and not others? You foolish man. It is necessary to have the same balance +/-

Wait, Mesmers need to have Veil Blink only for WvW? What happened to Portal?

Esplen.3940:

Wait, Mesmers need to have Veil Blink only for WvW? What happened to Portal?

Culling changes removed what the other nerfs were originally there for (without changing those back).

I think you quoted the wrong person?

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

Mbelch.9028:

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

it is not ridiculous but reasonable.

the skill is not doing what it is intended to do.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mbelch.9028:

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

it is not ridiculous but reasonable.

the skill is not doing what it is intended to do.

Reasonable that this skill becomes an imbalanced kill switch?

None of your suggestions have been well thought out.

The skill is indeed doing what is intended. Punishing people over time and being a boon to you over time.

It pulses, like many other skills in the game do. It makes it a good dueling skill, good PvP skill and good WvW roaming skill.

• Also, I can establish that since ANet hasn’t looked at this skill as imbalanced nor changed it much since release— this is what is intended for the skill. Your job if you want to have it changed is prove with evidence that it isn’t what was intended for the skill. And the tooltip isn’t good enough. Because over time, if you stand on it, it does remove all boons.

Mbelch.9028:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mbelch.9028:

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

it is not ridiculous but reasonable.

the skill is not doing what it is intended to do.

Reasonable that this skill becomes an imbalanced kill switch?

None of your suggestions have been well thought out.

The skill is indeed doing what is intended. Punishing people over time and being a boon to you over time.

It pulses, like many other skills in the game do. It makes it a good dueling skill, good PvP skill and good WvW roaming skill.

• Also, I can establish that since ANet hasn’t looked at this skill as imbalanced nor changed it much since release— this is what is intended for the skill. Your job if you want to have it changed is prove with evidence that it isn’t what was intended for the skill. And the tooltip isn’t good enough. Because over time, if you stand on it, it does remove all boons.

This skill is in its current state inefficient at removing boons and conditions.
One must be a selfish elementalist on not understanding this.
I can understand that it is better for you that boon temoval remains weak…you and your tons of damage…huge boon appliance and no limit aoe stun.
I didn’t hear you telling this stun was brokenly op….strange the way you see opness.

well they did change sword 3 according to its tooltip and killed it so…

Okay, here’s your fix. It removes all conditions and boons in an AoE WHEN IT HITS THE ZONE. After that it is merely a field. So if your opponent or ally is not in that zone when it goes down, nothing is removed on them, even if they stand in it. There, it matches the tooltip.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Okay, here’s your fix. It removes all conditions and boons in an AoE WHEN IT HITS THE ZONE. After that it is merely a field. So if your opponent or ally is not in that zone when it goes down, nothing is removed on them, even if they stand in it. There, it matches the tooltip.

that would be so broken awesome for teamfights, aoe codni remove and aoe condi clean instant

careful what u wish for

Kicast.1459:

Mbelch.9028:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mbelch.9028:

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

it is not ridiculous but reasonable.

the skill is not doing what it is intended to do.

Reasonable that this skill becomes an imbalanced kill switch?

None of your suggestions have been well thought out.

The skill is indeed doing what is intended. Punishing people over time and being a boon to you over time.

It pulses, like many other skills in the game do. It makes it a good dueling skill, good PvP skill and good WvW roaming skill.

• Also, I can establish that since ANet hasn’t looked at this skill as imbalanced nor changed it much since release— this is what is intended for the skill. Your job if you want to have it changed is prove with evidence that it isn’t what was intended for the skill. And the tooltip isn’t good enough. Because over time, if you stand on it, it does remove all boons.

This skill is in its current state inefficient at removing boons and conditions.
One must be a selfish elementalist on not understanding this.
I can understand that it is better for you that boon temoval remains weak…you and your tons of damage…huge boon appliance and no limit aoe stun.
I didn’t hear you telling this stun was brokenly op….strange the way you see opness.

No clue what the garbage you’re saying means.

I play every class WHEN I get the chance to play. I specialize in elementalist in that I’ve trained and helped tons of new/improving eles.

When I do play ele, I specifically specialize in D/D, but am up to specs on focus, scepter, but I recoil at staff.

I think your “no limit aoe stun” is referring to staff. I could care less if they made staff a limp noodle and made it a toy for swimming with. Try again if you want to insult me.

Eles rely on boons, yes. Did you think you saw through some hazy veil I was trying to hide behind? No. Eles heavily rely on boons. So do guardians. As such it is on those classes that can’t survive without boons (See the history of Ele Vs prenerf fearmancer necro) to inform the community of negative repercussions in poor balance decisions/propositions.

See I’m not a celestial/str rune ele, so the cancer you’re thinking of doesn’t rest on me. I would like that nerfed. Check out my post history before you ignorantly post.

Have you ever fought against a Null Field? Have you ever thought: OH kitten, I NEED TO GET OUT OF THAT INSTANTLY?

I have fought Null Field. I have ran Null Field. Either way, it’s a casual stroll both in and out of it. It also forces the Mesmer into a small AoE circle where you can just stack condition applications through AoE, Single Target, Projectiles, or other LoS things (unless the Mesmer uses it in a well though-out spot to prevent Projectiles and LoS).

Unless you’re only able to apply 1 condition per second, the Null Field isn’t going to do anything.

Also, if that one condition you apply is Blind, Null Field is going to do very little if you stand in it because Blind removal will be at every pulse and you’re probably attacking more than once per pulse. If you ARE attacking once per pulse, you’ll have to sync your auto attack so you won’t have Blind while attacking, which is high level effort for minimal rewards.

One important thing that hasn’t been mentioned so far: because it is a field that stays up AND pulses over time, you can sort of pre-cast it to remove condis in advance. Most likely fear, which prevents you from using skills altogether, and high stacks of confusion, which punish you for using skills.
So yeah, you can drop null field on self when you expect being hit by fear in the next second (and/or already have/expect to be receiving additional conditions).