[Mesmer] Power Block: Why it's unviable
I’ve actually been playing a bit of an aoe interruption build the past few days, just to see what sort of interrupts I could pump out. I was cautiously optimistic based on the pretty strong amount of interrupts I was able to do, but then I realized something.
A huge amount of my interrupts were interrupting stomps or ressing. People naturally gather up during those activities, so it was a simple matter to strip stab and throw them around. However, stomping and ressing aren’t skills. They can be interrupted, but you start them with a ‘press f to execute action’. As far as I know, there’s no mechanic in the game other than a knockdown that can prevent you from using that.
Will Power Lock put those actions on kitten cooldown? If so, it could have some extremely interesting possibilities. I suspect that it won’t, but one can hope.
Full cooldown?
That sounds kittened. Please stop posting.
@Pyro I’ve been running 30/10/30/0/0 CS, BI, CI build in PvP. As far as I can tell the F to stomp/Res does not have a CD attached to it. In all reality I do not see Power Lock as being better than CS. The chance to stun which stops everything happening movement etc. Powerlock just keeps one certain skill on double the CD and is dependent on interrupting. CS is just based off dazes and not interrupts….
yeah CS will be better.
Full cooldown?
That sounds kittened. Please stop posting.
Learn to read, please stop posting yourself.
‘’This means if your #1 gets interrupted, it will get a 5 seconds cooldown, but if your #2 gets interrupted, it will have a 10 sec cooldown and if channeling skills gets interrupted it will go on full cooldown or full cooldown +5 second’’
Some ppl… really so ignorant.
Full cooldown?
That sounds kittened. Please stop posting.Learn to read, please stop posting yourself.
‘’This means if your #1 gets interrupted, it will get a 5 seconds cooldown, but if your #2 gets interrupted, it will have a 10 sec cooldown and if channeling skills gets interrupted it will go on full cooldown or full cooldown +5 second’’Some ppl… really so ignorant.
This is why I think CS will just be better still.
@Pyro I’ve been running 30/10/30/0/0 CS, BI, CI build in PvP. As far as I can tell the F to stomp/Res does not have a CD attached to it. In all reality I do not see Power Lock as being better than CS. The chance to stun which stops everything happening movement etc. Powerlock just keeps one certain skill on double the CD and is dependent on interrupting. CS is just based off dazes and not interrupts….
yeah CS will be better.
Well, that’s the thing. Did they code it to say ‘on interrupt, add 5 to cooldown’? If so, then you could potentially lock things like autoattacks…and thief skill…for 5 seconds.
A huge amount of my interrupts were interrupting stomps or ressing. People naturally gather up during those activities, so it was a simple matter to strip stab and throw them around. However, stomping and ressing aren’t skills. They can be interrupted, but you start them with a ‘press f to execute action’. As far as I know, there’s no mechanic in the game other than a knockdown that can prevent you from using that.
True. You will experience something similar when interrupting AAs. It does happen quite often since it is easy to fail interrupting a specific skill by a fraction of a second or when randomly using a CC to annoy your opponent. Power Lock won’t make any difference in this case. It is even more situational than the interrupt traits we already have.
Will Power Lock put those actions on kitten cooldown? If so, it could have some extremely interesting possibilities. I suspect that it won’t, but one can hope.
Most likely not. No cooldown. No benefit.
Well, that’s the thing. Did they code it to say ‘on interrupt, add 5 to cooldown’? If so, then you could potentially lock things like autoattacks…and thief skill…for 5 seconds.
Not if AAs or Thief skills lack the attribute ‘cooldown’.
Well, that’s the thing. Did they code it to say ‘on interrupt, add 5 to cooldown’? If so, then you could potentially lock things like autoattacks…and thief skill…for 5 seconds.
Not if AAs or Thief skills lack the attribute ‘cooldown’.
Yeah I think the only things that this one GM trait will be good for is only CERTAIN classes heals….
Which is really stupid because, like they said in the stream, they wanna bring back the ‘’lockdown mesmer of gw1’‘. Well, believe me. At some point you were down to maybe 2 or 3 skills that weren’t on cooldown due interrupt. In this game, that could somewhat happen too if this trait would allow all skills to gain an extra 5 seconds cooldown. Even those who used to have none.
Yeah I think the only things that this one GM trait will be good for is only CERTAIN classes heals….
Not necessarily. It should be awesome for shutting down Hambows and it might also seriously screw with certain Elementalist rotations. Outside of that, I agree. Power Lock will mainly be used for Heals.
Yeah I think the only things that this one GM trait will be good for is only CERTAIN classes heals….
Not necessarily. It should be awesome for shutting down Hambows and it might also seriously screw with certain Elementalist rotations. Outside of that, I agree. Power Lock will mainly be used for Heals.
CS can shut them down pretty well right now… the chance to stun them for 1.x seconds and then chain it with SOD and chaos storm makes it even better. Our stuns may be on longer CDS than hambow but we can keep one person locked out for longer…. I have been running without de for the last few weeks and against most classes have had a pretty good time keeping them locked down.
CS can shut them down pretty well right now… the chance to stun them for 1.x seconds and then chain it with SOD and chaos storm makes it even better. Our stuns may be on longer CDS than hambow but we can keep one person locked out for longer…. I have been running without de for the last few weeks and against most classes have had a pretty good time keeping them locked down.
I don’t really care about the stuns when it comes to Hambows. Stuns only limit their movement but that is something I usually don’t have any trouble with. It is way more important to lock down their skills and that is where Power Lock would be better.
Of course, this only applies to opponents with average mobility.
I see what you’re saying and I disagree completely.
Why do you think its a good idea to increase channeled skills recharge? Isnt a channeled skill already easy to interrupt/ dodge?
Why do you think its a good idea to put auto attack on recharge? It is the one thing in every build that is the linchpin for dps.
Maybe I should just /sit and wait for the mes to kill me so I can get on with my life.
(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)
I see what you’re saying and I disagree completely.
Why do you think its a good idea to increase channeled skills recharge? Isnt a channeled skill already easy to interrupt/ dodge?
Why do you think its a good idea to put auto attack on recharge? It is the one thing in every build that is the linchpin for dps.
Maybe I should just /sit and wait for the mes to kill me so I can get on with my life.
1. My biggest issue was the fact that this trait doesn’t work vs #1 skills, I don’t see why you’re bringing up channeling skills especially since I’ve already said: ‘’if channeling skills gets interrupted it will go on full cooldown or full cooldown +5 seconds.’’
As it is now channeling skills already go on full cooldown. Another 5 seconds wouldn’t hurt that much but I can see your frustration by not spamming skills.
2. To make profit of this trait, you would need some type of ’’lockdown’’. Interrupting 1 skill so you can’t spam that skill doesn’t mean you are totally useless. You would need to be able to stand still to be completly lockdowned, such as a stun. I didnt see you posting anywhere that you disagree’d with stunlock warriors, so why would you with lockdown mesmers?
3. To make it happen what I said @ #2, you would need to gain a build of:
30-x-30-x-x
That leaves 10 points open. With this build your damage will be close to kitten if you don’t interrupt anything and you would be very vurnable. The clone generation will be completely gone since you only have 1 cooldown reduction trait (at least if you will take it above the boon removal on shatter).
4. The amount of CC a mesmer got is seriously pathetic if you have the slightest knowledge about fighting a mesmer. It’s almost the same as with pve:
Sometimes there’s lava, get the kitten out of the lava!
Same goes for mesmer:
Sometimes there’s a chaos storm, get the kitten out of the chaos storm!
5. Using blind or stability will be direct counters to lockdown mesmers and make them, unless they somehow remove your stability, useless.
6. Oh poor baby, so if you get interupted on your #1 you can’t spam your lovely #1 skill and have to use other skills to find out how this game works?
7. Like you said, for (correcting here) Some classes #1 is the ’’linchpin’’ for dps. That means atm, some classes get’s punished much more than those who rely on spamming 1 till win.
This means skilled play get’s punished more by the player who interrupted a skill than players who have no idea of this game how to play it. Sounds fair?
And even now if you interrupt it with the trait, it’s 100% not worth it to put 30 points in there. If they wanna bring back the GW1 mesmer there’s much to improve at lockdown.
I think something closer to “Diversion” from GW1:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Diversion
Could be pretty nice. After you interrupt, you put an effect which will interrupt next cast and apply chill.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
1. My biggest issue is that you want it to work with #1 skills. I’m bringing up channeling skills because adding another 5 seconds to short recharge dps skills would kill dps. A lot of hard hitting damage skills come from channeled skills. My frustration is with your myopic point of view.
2. I would rather be stunned for 1 second because I didnt have stability then not be able to use dps and not be able to do anything about it. No one said anything about spamming.
3. Ok.
4. I agree with improving lockdown capabilities of a mesmer but this isnt the way to do it.
5. Blind Mantra of Distraction, diversion, signet of domination, magic bullet, chaos storm? With what? Do you automatically assume all of us have a d/p thief on standby? Do you automatically assume that this will be only used in tpvp where organization is second nature? Stability will be more useful but in an organized spike it doesnt last long with boon strips.
6. So instead relying on the core of my damage by using the #1 skill like everyone in this game does, you want me to A. wait for my 10+ second channeled skill to come off cooldown, B. run away, or C. switch weapons and wait for that to be on recharge. Spam #1 skill? Dude theres only what 5 weapon skills with lower cooldowns and 3 utilites? The game isnt exactly geared for diversity.
7. Again, no one said anything about spamming the #1 skill, but you know, sometimes its useful to put pressure on a target to actually contribute to the fight. Actually no that doesnt sound fair to the new player which Anet some what seems like they are gearing their game towards.
I freaked out when I read “Power Block” the first team when reading the new GM trait, simply because I imagined it doing something like GW1’s Power Block. Interrupted a Weapon Skill? All weapon skills go on kitten cooldown. Utility skill interrupted? All of them on CD for 5 seconds.
1. My biggest issue is that you want it to work with #1 skills. I’m bringing up channeling skills because adding another 5 seconds to short recharge dps skills would kill dps. A lot of hard hitting damage skills come from channeled skills. My frustration is with your myopic point of view.
2. I would rather be stunned for 1 second because I didnt have stability then not be able to use dps and not be able to do anything about it. No one said anything about spamming.
3. Ok.
4. I agree with improving lockdown capabilities of a mesmer but this isnt the way to do it.
5. Blind Mantra of Distraction, diversion, signet of domination, magic bullet, chaos storm? With what? Do you automatically assume all of us have a d/p thief on standby? Do you automatically assume that this will be only used in tpvp where organization is second nature? Stability will be more useful but in an organized spike it doesnt last long with boon strips.
6. So instead relying on the core of my damage by using the #1 skill like everyone in this game does, you want me to A. wait for my 10+ second channeled skill to come off cooldown, B. run away, or C. switch weapons and wait for that to be on recharge. Spam #1 skill? Dude theres only what 5 weapon skills with lower cooldowns and 3 utilites? The game isnt exactly geared for diversity.
7. Again, no one said anything about spamming the #1 skill, but you know, sometimes its useful to put pressure on a target to actually contribute to the fight. Actually no that doesnt sound fair to the new player which Anet some what seems like they are gearing their game towards.
1. Ok? Clearly you can’t see the ’’or’’ I’ve refered to. It fits in line with the context and my main idea was full cooldown no + x sec on it. Can’t see why you are so kitten still about it.
2. Can you read? Like wow. You said ‘’It is the one thing in every build that is the linchpin for dps.’’ It refering to #1 skills. #1 is a spamable skill. You don’t like the idea cause you can’t spam #1 like that if you get interrupted.
‘’ I would rather be stunned for 1 second because I didnt have stability then not be able to use dps and not be able to do anything about it.’’
2.1 Stunlock warriors, or even stun’s in general, stun you for a bit more than 1 second
2.2 If you would have stability you wouldnt get interrupted, same problem goes for any type of stun.
2.3 While being stunned you can’t deal dps, but seeing your sentence you actually do deal damage while being stunned? Tell me, how?
2.4 You could do something about it: put preasure on the mesmer, cc him, blind him, use stability, try not to think in single minded solo combinations only. Mesmer interrupts are mostly based on expecting someone to use X skill.
3. You just said ’’Ok’’ to the most imporant one. GJ keep it up.
4. Then what is? Shouting ‘’NO NO NO’’ at everything but not coming with solutions isn’t gonna help this game either.
5. I don’t see why you would use signet of domination as interrupt skill… There are too many utilities, SoD doesn’t got a spot there.
Mantra of distraction got only 2 charges and has a arguebly long cooldown. This is the only source of actually interrupting on reflex.
Pistol got no use in tpvp and can be dodged as it is very obvious when the mesmer is gonna cast it.
Diversion has a really long cooldown, is single target and is, unless well used, mostly a delayed daze, therefor it would be a personal skill issue if the enemy couldnt kill or dodge the clones running up to him.
Chaos storm is very unreliable and as I said, you can easily move out the chaos storm.
In organised fights it wont last long untill you’re dead if we’re bringing that up now. 10 second cooldown on skills is not gonna hurt you there more than the current 5 seconds.
6. Yes? Like you said you got 5 skills + 3 utility and another 5 skills on your other weapon. The mesmer has to put 30 points into domination to get this trait. As there’s almost no build without 30 points in chaos or illusions it’s gonna be really hard to get 20 in dueling to get the clone generation and do some proper shatters.
7. So I’m not allowed to bring arguments up myself? I, me, doiid, am bringing up #1 spamming as an argument that this trait should allow cd on the skill when interrupted with the trait. You are against it because… why exactly again? Because professions only got 13 skills to use and when your spamable skill get’s on cooldown it’s game over?
Or was it because you can’t deal any dps without #1?
(edited by BlackDevil.9268)
I freaked out when I read “Power Block” the first team when reading the new GM trait, simply because I imagined it doing something like GW1’s Power Block. Interrupted a Weapon Skill? All weapon skills go on kitten cooldown. Utility skill interrupted? All of them on CD for 5 seconds.
That would actually make it worth it. Right now playing a pure lockdown mesmer is… painful.
I’ll put this as simply as I can.
Say for example, I was to go 1v1 against a mesmer with your version of power block. Most of my damage comes from channeled skills, so when those go on the already fine 10sec cd, what am I supposed to do? I can pop a few defensive abilites and try to run away, but I’ll just get rupted again. So what then? What else can I do but spam #1? Should I bring 3 stun breakers to stand a chance (assuming those work against anets power block)? When I run out of stun breakers and my auto attack and weapon switch is on cd, what then?
Can you now understand where I’m coming from or are you going to continue being a pompous kitten bag?
You’re constantly asuming mesmer got unlimited interrupts no?
Mantra: 2 charges , average of 40 seconds cooldown.
Chaos storm: 1 max if you are smart enough to walk away from it, 35 sec cooldown
Illusionary wave: 1, 30 seconds cooldown
Diversion 1 daze that can actually proceed the interrupt, 2 if lucky and if the enemy is too blind to see a 2nd or 3rd illusion running up to him: 45 seconds cooldown
Let’s asume 80% of those interrupt (which is already a lot), since chaos storm is unriable, illusionary wave got a casting time and diversion is a delayed daze. 1/2 of those interrupts are on channeling skills or stomps which don’t affect the trait.
((40+35+45+30) / (6, this is if diversion hits twice)) / 0.8 = 1 interrupt per 31.25 seconds. That would be 1 interrupt on a skill that isn’t a channeling skill, so a skill that’s affected by the trait, every 62.5 seconds. The time you would have a lockdown on that 1 skill that isn’t a channeling skill, is 1/6,25 = 16% on a skill of 2-5 and a 1/13 = 7,7% of your whole time.
That means a mesmer has to sacrifice almost every possibility of playing with shatter skills, which also lowers his DPS and survivability, to lock you down for an average of about 13%, and you QQ about that being op?
I’ll tell you what you didn’t see too:
‘’most of my damage comes from channeled skills’‘, Power Block (PB) doesn’t affect channeling skills, so it seems like you’re struggling with another problem here.
‘’so when they already go on a fine 10 sec cd’‘, no they already go on full cooldown. Again, this trait has nothing to do with that and that means like I mentioned above, only 17% of those channeled skills would be lockdowned.
Yes so you spam 1, but what if I want to interrupt your #1 skill? What reward do I get for that? 1 second later you can use it again, doesn’t seem really fair to me.
No stunbreaker wont work against power block. That would the the most kittened thing in this game ever.
Yes you have 10 skills, being lockdowned by a skilled mesmer with good reflexes for only about 13% of the time while he sacrifices almost any type of damage and survivability seems pretty fair to me. Like I said, 6 interrupts. You have 10 (+ 5 utility/elite/healing) to use. Those 6 are off cooldown the moment you’ve used those other skills.
And if not? Well think again, this class wasn’t a lockdown class in GW1 for no reason.
P.s. I didnt even mention class mechanics in this calculation. That also gives up to 4 more skills to use.
No I’m not, I’m assuming that the mesmer is half decent and lands his/her interrupt skills.
Chaos Storm – yeah I’ll walk away from immob and a daze/stun. Not that hard to land on a melee attacker.
What is the point of that math? Are you trying to make it seem like a mesmer wont use an interrupt skill more then once every 30 seconds?
1:23:30 Not sure which RU you watched but yeah power block kinda works on any skill that is interrupted, with no ICD.
Look I came on aggressive, plus misinterpreted what you said and I apologize. I think your head is in the right place but this idea is not the right way to go about buffing the mesmer.
(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)
No I’m not, I’m assuming that the mesmer is half decent and lands his/her interrupt skills.
Chaos Storm – yeah I’ll walk away from immob and a daze/stun. Not that hard to land on a melee attacker.
What is the point of that math? Are you trying to make it seem like a mesmer wont use an interrupt skill more then once every 30 seconds?
1:23:30 Not sure which RU you watched but yeah power block kinda works on any skill that is interrupted, with no ICD.Look I came on aggressive, plus misinterpreted what you said and I apologize. I think your head is in the right place but this idea is not the right way to go about buffing the mesmer.
‘’This means that if you put an enemy skill on interrupt cooldown, like normally it’s like 4 seconds or so, that interrupt cooldown, so like if you interrupt a heal from your target, is gonna go from a 4 seconds ICD, or like eh… interrupt cooldown, to a 10 seconds interrupt cooldown’’
I litterly just quoted what he said. Channeling skills don’t have an interrupt cooldown, since you interrupt the skill itself, not the cast. Stomps don’t have interrupt cooldown either as it has no cooldown, #1 skills don’t have cooldown either. I’ve made a list few days back as linked here in the OP. That’s like all skills that have an interrupt cooldown. 3/4 of them are not worth interrupting, have a casting time of 0.5 or less seconds, which isn’t possible to interrupt unless you can predict, but this also requires luck or don’t have a specific animation (like necro marks) to see what he’s casting.
Use your cleanse? Or just don’t cast till you are out? Chaos storm isn’t made to just lay there so you can facetank the extremely low damage and low duration conditions which deal no damage. It’s one of the few aoe’s that actually requires targets to think what to do.
So asuming the mesmer would spam interrupt skills. Doesn’t that still come down to a GW1 mesmer? Where every skill you would cast would be interrupted and there was nothing to do besides running around? In this game, casting time of skills is about 200% faster than in GW1, so how exactly do you asume the mesmer to interrupt every single skill when he’s spamming CC to interrupt? Especially if those interrupt skills got a casting time. The math might not be optimal, but in the long therm it wouldn’t be far from 17% lockdown caused by the trait, especially in a game that lasts 10 minutes.
Not to forget that this is only if #1 skill get a 5 sec interrupt cooldown too in combination with this trait and that atm those skills that got an interrupt cooldown, already got 4-5 seconds. Meaning this ‘’10 seconds’’ isn’t even a 10 seconds interrupt buff, but only a 5-6 seconds buff. Which, if you would take that in your calculation, you would come down to a much lower number of lockdown caused by the trait.
And no, the point of the math is to convince you that a mesmer has to waste so much to make it even close to effective. 1/2 of the skills you use are impossible to interrupt or have no interrupt cooldown. The actually few skills that do got interrupt cooldown are not worth interrupting. So tell me, what is this trait good for if they want to bring back the interrupt lockdown mesmer, as mentioned just after the discussion of the trait?
Ah channeled skills are not affected. Now I know.
My cleanse has a casting time and using a stun break would be pointless. If channeled skills and auto attacks were effected like you want them to be, there would be nothing to do but marinate in the chaos storm. There is no time to react to a chaos storm mid channel or melee burst, especially if the mesmer approaches you while you are fighting some one else or from stealth.
So I had a misconception about a few things and now you assume spamming skills is involved. Wrong. I’m assuming the mesmer can read obvious channels and clearly cued powerful skills. I am a power necro and every bit of damage I deal is extremely obvious. I’m not crying over my favorite spec being hard countered I’m saying there are plenty of obvious cues out there. You make it seem like there isnt. I’m also assuming any stability is stripped.
I highly doubt they want to truly bring the gw1 mesmer back. The reason this trait is underpowered as of now is most likely because they are being careful to not repeat that. Of course this is purely speculation.
(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)
No? I never said I wanted channeling skills to be affected, only auto attack. Of there’s a button called esc. The chaos storm proceed is 25% for a daze. You must be pretty unlucky to gain the direct daze from it. In that time you can either interrupt your channeling skill yourself by using esc. or you take the risk of standing in the chaos storm. If you get immobilized in chaos storm then you just get outplayed cause then clearly you didn’t dodge a very important skill.
If a mesmer comes by from stealth and does a full shatter burst on you, is that op too then? Sorry but that argument is just stupid.
How many times do I have to say this. The trait doesn’t affect channel skills. Can you now stop bringing that up as argument. Yes as power necro everything is obvious. That’s the risk you take for going power necro. Just because your spec gets slightly countered doesn’t mean it directly counters everything in the game and therefor is a bad change in this game.
They said it in the stream themselves lol. Why would they say it if they don’t mean it on a stream where 3k people are watching? No the reason they bring up underpowered traits is because they don’t know kitten about balancing, but that doesn’t mean community can help with that. They barely buff stuff, only nerf, so this is either gonna get buffed in 6 months or will stay as it is now for the rest of the game.
But then again lets say:
Power necro = staff & Axe-warhorn
The skill a mesmer can interrupt combined with the trait are:
Staff:
Mark of blood
Chilblains
Putrid Mark
Reaper’s Mark
Axe:
Unholy feast
Warhorn:
Wail of doom (very hard to interrupt due 0.5 sec casting time so if you use it without standing in a chaos storm then you should 95% of the time get it off without being interrupted
Locust swarm
Your marks is obviously something every mesmer wouldn’t interrupt as it’s not worth it. It’s impossible to see which one is which mark and a waste to put interruts in that. Then you switch to your axe-warhorn, your deathshroud or lich form/ plague form.
You mainly go for stability in deathshroud (i guess??) so you can easily use your skills in that time as the mesmer is probably going for the interrupt on your life transfer. The mesmer can’t do any shatter unless you’re standing yourself close to an illusion to remove your stability. Same goes for diversion due the low clone generation. By that time you could’ve get a fear, immobilize, some 4-5k damage and switch back to axe-warhorn to do the daze. Do axe 2 during the daze duration to get full damage of it before getting interrupted. I’m not saying you will win with this, but you neither lose.
Like I said before many times, there’s almost no damage involved with 30-10-30 mesmer.
P.s. Isn’t power necro one of the specs that actually rely on spamming 1 to deal damage? Not many counters to that atm. Just annyoing to interrupt life blast and then try to evade it or interrupt it again 1 second later.
“if channeling skills gets interrupted it will go on full cooldown or full cooldown +5 seconds.”
That is what I’m referring to. I had assumed that this meant that channeled skills are now affected. I didnt know interrupting a channeled skill didnt put it on interrupt cooldown, I always thought the cast time was the skill cast. Full cooldown sounds good now that this is clarified, but not the +5 part. Maybe not seem like a big deal to you but it is to me. Thats because I rely on a rotation, not spamming 1. Unlike a greatsword mesmer. Oh see what I did there? I’m just kidding of course.