Guild Wars 2

lazycalm.5186:

You must have been playing Mesmer for so long you can’t even remember how it is to fight against one. The targeting and untargeting mechanic is sick broken, especially in a PvP scneario. The advantage to the Mesmer vs incompetent players is huge.
You probably couldn’t win against one, that’s why you joined the band

Fixed that for you.

lazycalm.5186:

Curunen.8729:

lazycalm.5186:

Runewolf.8456:

pretty easy to kill, just go for the one that isn’t standing still auto attacking you.

By the time you find the right one, you’re downed.
The deception is just too strong in this game. Mesmer was the easiest class I played in PvP, simply because you can do what you want to, most opponents will just be distracted with your clones, spending the she fight trying to target the real you.

Mesmers are a disease in PvP

I’m usually polite and never usually one to say this, but in this case…

…L2P.

Anyone who’s played this game for more than 5 minutes (slight exaggeration for effect) will rarely be deceived.

Anyone who’s actually good will never be deceived.

Anyone who is deceived needs to get better.

There’s only one single problem when fighting Mesmer – and that is fluent use of target cycling – pressing the right buttons to reselect the correct target. I will accept this part can be annoying because of the targeting system – but again it’s just a matter of getting used to it. If I can get used to the targeting system in GW2 (and I used to seriously struggle with the tab targeting, being used to games with crosshairs), then anyone can.

Anyone who can’t spot the real Mesmer in ~ 1 second needs to L2P.

You must have been playing Mesmer for so long you can’t even remember how it is to fight against one. The targeting and untargeting mechanic is sick broken, especially in a PvP scneario. The advantage to the Mesmer is huge.
You probably couldn’t win against one, that’s why you joined the band

What nonsense – I’ve fought and killed plenty of mesmers, good and bad ones and everything in between. And not only on my Mesmer, but also as ranger! And I barely have any playtime on ranger compared to amount of playtime on mesmer.

Seriously, learn to play. I already partly agreed with you that the targeting system is bad, but you can do far better with it than you’re making out is possible.

Maybe you should spend a lot of time playing as a mesmer, because then you’ll find it 10 times easier to fight against any Mesmer. You learn how they move, what skills to expect and when, and all the little subtle tells that make fighting them no more difficult than any other class.

If you have that much trouble against a Mesmer, I’d shudder to think how you feel about fighting a good thief, warrior, or ele at the very least.

Also funny you’re directing this at me when many other players in this thread are telling you exactly the same thing…

Unsure if lazycalm is the forums worst player or best troll.

Neptune.2570:

Unsure if lazycalm is the forums worst player or best troll.

I don’t think those things are mutually exclusive.

Neptune.2570:

Unsure if lazycalm is the forums worst player or best troll.

And I’m the most gullible bookah! xD

vincecontix.1264:

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable.

1v1 fights are explicitly not a supported form of PvP. If you fight it, you accept you cannot and should not expect any balance.

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable.

1v1 fights are explicitly not a supported form of PvP. If you fight it, you accept you cannot and should not expect any balance.

hold on, lemme go find those notes again from dulfy..

….

ah here we go, JUNE 13th

Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.

Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

Mesmer, Balanced only for 1v1 combat, strong at 1v1 combat, weak at team combat and also weak at 1v1 combat.

1v1, is apparently a supported thing, just very very kittenly supported…. for only 1 maybe 2 if you count thief? classes..

This is not the only example on this forum of people complaining about a class where it is strongest while the players who main that class reference where the class could be improved.

I really think everyone can get on board with making mesmers better where the class lags behind others, while simultaneously not making them crazy OP in 1v1. I’m not sure how to go about doing that myself, but it seems like an obvious middle ground.

the problem is not mesmers, the problem is the clunky targeting system and UI.

TrOtskY.5927:

the problem is not mesmers, the problem is the clunky targeting system and UI.

Absolutely.

Getting your fingers to work around it when your mind knows instantly what to do is most of the challenge.

I’ll wager if players could directly interface with their minds and switch target with a mere thought, then most Mesmer complaints would disappear.

Swish.2463:

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

So wrong in wvw and duels pu condi or hybrid is almost unbeatable.

1v1 fights are explicitly not a supported form of PvP. If you fight it, you accept you cannot and should not expect any balance.

hold on, lemme go find those notes again from dulfy..

….

ah here we go, JUNE 13th

Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.

Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

Mesmer, Balanced only for 1v1 combat, strong at 1v1 combat, weak at team combat and also weak at 1v1 combat.

1v1, is apparently a supported thing, just very very kittenly supported…. for only 1 maybe 2 if you count thief? classes..

..
O really..

Show me where I can queue up for this supported 1 v 1 game mode.

Don’t worry we will all be here take your time..

Swish.2463:

Mesmer, Balanced only for 1v1 combat, strong at 1v1 combat, weak at team combat and also weak at 1v1 combat.

You added that part yourself, but forgot to mention it? :P
The official note never said that 1v1 was in any way an intended part of balance. But hey, you can read it into it if you really want to, I suppose.

You could also just look at the game to know 1v1 isn’t a supported game mode. Nothing about the combat mechanics tell you that 1v1 is ever a better choice than simply bringing more people.

Funny how you guys took the one sarcastic part of his post seriously…

Miltek.2104:

The problem is mesmer can kite that’s all.
In “real” pvp matches there’s no time for fighting off point so kitting mesmer = useless mesmer.
They are not OP, I wouldn’t even categorize them into “strong” class. Thing that saves them are portal and stealth which are amaizing utility skills.

tl;dr L2P

You literally have no idea what you’re taking about. Look up Helseth then come back and tell me that a kiting Mesmer isn’t good.

Just because you think you’ve figured the game out doesn’t mean you have.

Getting my awesome bunker Guardian turned into a frickin Moa bird is really annoying. That’s my only complaint about Mesmer.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Step 1: Give Veil to thiefs, give Portal to eles.
Step 2: Delete mesmer profession.

Result: Noone, in not a single game mode would miss the mesmer profession in GW2.

There’s the rub. Then we wouldn’t have players complaining about how OP we are when they simply refuse to look in the mirror for their flaws. Nope, it’s easier to kick the already limping mesmer class.

The condition of the mesmer is ANet’s fault. They broke the class. Unless they acknowledge that fault and fix it, they might as well do what you just described. We’ll just be the vanity butterfly class, and maybe everyone else will finally be happy.

@OP: You have no idea what you’re talking about. Mesmer is the most dumped on class in the game – by the Devs, the other classes, and lovely players like yourself.

If you are a necro and you get out played by a mes it’s your own fault for lacking game sense. Just saying you cannot 1v1 something without knowing what it’s doing is not a good display of evidence and you are going to ruffle the feathers of every person who mains the neglected class esp with our current meta. (For all parts of the game)

You’re a necro! how can u lose to a mesmer?!
I own both mesmer and necro. mesmer in current version is very UP with bugs and stuff. Biggest weakness for mesmers – lack of CC clearing ability, lack of stability, lack of mobility.
My necro run Terrormancer build and basically can face roll any mesmer with heavy conditions. Corrupt boon does miracles for PU mesmers cuz they always have a lot of buffs

This is a pure Troll post. Mesmers being called OP is laughable. As to Moa.. it’s hard to finish a cast and gets evaded 50% of the time anyway.. and if you do succeed it’s too short.

Roe.3679:

This is not the only example on this forum of people complaining about a class where it is strongest while the players who main that class reference where the class could be improved.

I really think everyone can get on board with making mesmers better where the class lags behind others, while simultaneously not making them crazy OP in 1v1. I’m not sure how to go about doing that myself, but it seems like an obvious middle ground.

Nailed it. A massive issue I have with mesmers lies on targeting. You try and tab cycle to the real one, but while doing so the GS clone whirls into you and your tab cycle resets on it. Now you’ve been hit (for probably a significant chunk of damage or conditions), and you need to keep cycling your targeting until you finally get on the real one – and then just as you do and begin you cast your skills – the mesmer drops into stealth and you’re left over with the same mess as before.

This is the real issue. Thief stealth is much less problematic because as soon as it drops stealth, you can easily re-target the thief. With the mesmer, it’s a matter of desperate clicking and tabbing (and clones bodyblock on spawn when they dodge, too), just to get the correct one in your sights to attack even though you know precisely at all times which the real one is.

Consequently I also believe that chain stealth and high stealth uptime builds should be punished, especially ones which can deal damage while invisible/untargetable, such as condition caltrops thieves and the PU mesmer builds. These have extreme potency in small group situations, and frankly, are just unfair. The upcoming change to Choking Gas to reveal is a step in the right direction, but ultimately it won’t be enough.

I’m quite sure Caltrops reveals Thieves as long as you’re standing in the Caltrops. If you have conditions on you, then yes, the Thief won’t be revealed, but that’s… kind of hard to “fix”.

Esplen.3940:

I’m quite sure Caltrops reveals Thieves as long as you’re standing in the Caltrops. If you have conditions on you, then yes, the Thief won’t be revealed, but that’s… kind of hard to “fix”.

It doesn’t, simply because we have a trait that drops Caltrops everytime we dodge. If it dropped stealth through it, the trait and skill would never get used, much like most of the traits and skills Thieves have. The nerf to Choking Gas pretty much destroys all usage of the weapon outside of blast finishing, since Choking Gas was already a waste of initiative if you weren’t in stealth. Now it’ll never be used since we can’t even keep stealth up while using it, so the weapon is pretty much dead.

I saw the title and instantly wanted to punch you in the face

i read your original post and now i just want to gently caress your soft cheek and whisper:l2p

don’t qq over mesmers, we’re glassier than all hell and when you get a couple conditions on us we’re toast.

overcome the fact that necro is not the most mobile class and use literally everything else to your advantage

RyuDragnier.9476:

Esplen.3940:

I’m quite sure Caltrops reveals Thieves as long as you’re standing in the Caltrops. If you have conditions on you, then yes, the Thief won’t be revealed, but that’s… kind of hard to “fix”.

It doesn’t, simply because we have a trait that drops Caltrops everytime we dodge. If it dropped stealth through it, the trait and skill would never get used, much like most of the traits and skills Thieves have. The nerf to Choking Gas pretty much destroys all usage of the weapon outside of blast finishing, since Choking Gas was already a waste of initiative if you weren’t in stealth. Now it’ll never be used since we can’t even keep stealth up while using it, so the weapon is pretty much dead.

Not even close. Shortbow will remain the primary utility and GvG weapon for the thief for as long as Infil Arrow, cluster bomb, spammable evade on 3 + reposition + cripple and a massive AOE poison field are part of the weapon (effectively everything the set offers). The shortbow will remain one of the ONLY effective weapons in combat with a substantial number of enemies solely because of the poison field. Choking gas is an absolute game-changer because it pulses heal cuts, and actually triggers SoM which when used on 5 enemies + trick shot will yield about a 1500 heal/second. Just because you can’t condi spam poison in stealth doesn’t mean the set is “dead”. I also want to point out that the new damage aspect from its impact only reveals if it hits something, so if you use it and your allies coerce/knock an enemy into the field afterwards, you will remain in stealth. The weapon is very far from “dead.”

What I fail to understand about this topic is people complaining about mesmer condi removal. I’d argue they have some rather impressive removal as opposed to some of the other classes. They’re one of the few that can actually negate condi burst.

They’re one of the few that can actually negate condi burst.

Only with Mantra of Resolve and Harmonious Mantra’s can we remove a condi burst and then its only the initial one.. then we have a 20 second cooldown before we even get to cast the 2-1/2 second mantra recharge in order to do it again.

Null Field has a 40 sec CD and only removes one condition every second (5 seconds total) as long as we stay standing in it.

Phantasmal Disenchanter has a1-1/2 second cast time and a 20 sec CD. And while its alive only removes a single condition every 5 seconds..IF it bounces off the Mesmer and not his allies.. meanwhile the enemy can simply “breath” on it and there’s goes our condition removal.

Mender’s Purity is an adept trait that removes 2 conditions every time we cast a heal spell.. But now your waiting on the healing cooldown to remove conditions a whopping 2 at a time.

EDIT: Forgot about Arcane Theievery.. 45 second cooldown.. send 3 conditions/steal 3 boons. Again very long cooldown and for some reason a very very buggy skill. 1/3 of the time it simply doesn’t work. It must have a very narrow cone line of sight or something. Originally, this transfered ALL condition/boons and the 45 second cooldown was justified. But then it was nerfed to 3 and the CD remains.

So for condi burst.. Mantra of Resolve/Harmonious Mantra’s is the best option.. but that only gets us over that first bursts. Any condi-heavy build from necro’s, rangers, PU mesmer’s, engineer’s, etc. can simply can overpower(condition wise) a mesmer easily.

A mesmer’s best defense against conditions is simply to avoid them. And frankly many professions “condition-heavy” builds (Including the PU Memser) can simply keep applying conditions almost non-stop.

I especially like the Necro build I’ve been running into lately.. the one that casts 5-6 conditions at once and then again about 15 seconds later and keeps you feared as your health just drains away. Not even giving you a chance to remove them. Those guys are tough.

SlimChance.6593:

They’re one of the few that can actually negate condi burst.

Only with Mantra of Resolve and Harmonious Mantra’s can we remove a condi burst and then its only the initial one.. then we have a 20 second cooldown before we even get to cast the 2-1/2 second mantra recharge in order to do it again.

Null Field has a 40 sec CD and only removes one condition every second (5 seconds total) as long as we stay standing in it.

Phantasmal Disenchanter has a1-1/2 second cast time and a 20 sec CD. And while its alive only removes a single condition every 5 seconds..IF it bounces off the Mesmer and not his allies.. meanwhile the enemy can simply “breath” on it and there’s goes our condition removal.

Mender’s Purity is an adept trait that removes 2 conditions every time we cast a heal spell.. But now your waiting on the healing cooldown to remove conditions a whopping 2 at a time.

EDIT: Forgot about Arcane Theievery.. 45 second cooldown.. send 3 conditions/steal 3 boons. Again very long cooldown and for some reason a very very buggy skill. 1/3 of the time it simply doesn’t work. It must have a very narrow cone line of sight or something. Originally, this transfered ALL condition/boons and the 45 second cooldown was justified. But then it was nerfed to 3 and the CD remains.

So for condi burst.. Mantra of Resolve/Harmonious Mantra’s is the best option.. but that only gets us over that first bursts. Any condi-heavy build from necro’s, rangers, PU mesmer’s, engineer’s, etc. can simply can overpower(condition wise) a mesmer easily.

A mesmer’s best defense against conditions is simply to avoid them. And frankly many professions “condition-heavy” builds (Including the PU Memser) can simply keep applying conditions almost non-stop.

I especially like the Necro build I’ve been running into lately.. the one that casts 5-6 conditions at once and then again about 15 seconds later and keeps you feared as your health just drains away. Not even giving you a chance to remove them. Those guys are tough.

Not too mention how many of those are simply not viable in conquest. I disenchant is really, not a skill for conquest. A mesmer could take ONE of arcane thievery (3 condis removed every 45 secs) null field (terrible personal removal, ok for group support) or the mantra (4 condis over 20 seconds, with a 2 and 3/4 second charge time). An extra 2 condis removed a heal for the trade off of either your burst or your boon strip.
Realisically, Mesmer’s have either terrible condi removal, but can be OK in the teamfight, or can have OK condi removal but bring nothing to a teamfight.