Guild Wars 2

Renny.6571:

kylwilson.9137:

Like I said, if you really truly think that the main benefit of PU is the stealth, you either didn’t read the entire post and hand picked what you wanted to reply to (hence why I wasn’t fully quoted), or you really underestimate a near permanent protection uptime.

I think it’s both hon.

I didn’t quote the first half of your post because I’m not refuting that PU stacks loads of protection, but if you want to argue that too, then sure. Most boon strip and boon flip skills prioritize Swiftness and Protection before other boons. Assuming you use Decoy and The Prestige with all 8 ticks being Protection, you’d have lost 24 seconds of Protection at the cost of a stun break, blind/burn and 8 seconds of the best defensive mechanic in the game.

Besides, even if you weren’t boon stripped and managed to stay in a fight for >24sec, you’d still need to re-enter stealth for another 8 seconds to regain that much protection, and in that time wouldn’t be preventing the point from (de)capping; wherein lies the reason people choose to run traits that aren’t detrimental to the success of the match.

Oh I mean I most certainly know where you’re coming from, in terms of stealth being a huge hindrance to point capturing. Alas a Mesmer isn’t going to ever fill the role of a bunker so to speak, but the use of stealth pre-engagement along with CC skills (and our own personal form of boon stripping to handle enemy stability) sets up a great passive defence to overpower an enemy to neutralise a point (the Mesmer is in a pretty good position to dispose of decap engineers for example without having much trouble. I think the term bunker-buster is awesome).

Coupled with the size of maps, blink is invaluable (Spirit Watch, Legacy of the Foefire and Temple of the Silent Storm are where blink skills shine the most due to the nature of the maps) in order to get from point to point.

With aegis proccing so often and blocking boon removal options and a substantial vigour uptime (even slipping in and out of stealth for a second or two), you certainly have something to get the job done. Certainly not a roamer, but a bunker-buster for sure.

Zacchary.6183:

Renny.6571:

Offhand pistol thieves do perma daze better than mesmers. Not sure what you’re talking about man.

1/4 second x3 is not permadaze

WTB -1 button.

Literally thought the same thing but I’m an advocate of the thought that some people live very quickly so therefore a second to them is an hour to us

Reduce confusion by another 50%, or make the max amount it stacks to 3… It is a ridiculous condition when you rely on using your skills a lot. I hate when people say don’t attack. What the heck am I supposed to do for pressure then?

mrauls.6519:

Reduce confusion by another 50%, or make the max amount it stacks to 3… It is a ridiculous condition when you rely on using your skills a lot. I hate when people say don’t attack. What the heck am I supposed to do for pressure then?

That’s kind of the point in GW1 mesmer had people completely locked out of their skill bars for 10-20-30 sec at a time and unless the hexes were cleansed that person died. Now unless you clear this condition you die… It’s really not that bad especially since considering the worst class for condition cleanse is mesmers…. and no don’t reduce confusion again I think the condition itself needs a buff but the access that warriors/engis have to it need waaayyyy toned down. Anet didn’t like roles well now we are getting to a point where all classes can pretty much do the same thing except a select few classes do almost everything better than all other classes.

That doesn’t seem ridiculous to you?

mrauls.6519:

That doesn’t seem ridiculous to you?

Not really considering there were other things that were in play. In Gw2 we have conditions that punish you for movement (torment) and using your skills (confusion) confusion is one of the first things to be cleansed if you don’t have full cleanse…. And it’s damage modifier has be wrecked.

OP re-roll mesmer and then come back and talk. Legit sick of all this dribble about mesmers being OP, when ATM, mesmers are rather kittene.

just came here to say Mesmer is my main but I play across all classes and Engi Bunker is by far the most annoying thing youll ever play once you get better. If more people played engi in WVW and PVP it would be a true nightmare

Azure.8670:

just came here to say Mesmer is my main but I play across all classes and Engi Bunker is by far the most annoying thing youll ever play once you get better. If more people played engi in WVW and PVP it would be a true nightmare

Yep yep yep so much yep. The rare well played engi in wvw is by far the most frustrating thing possible. I play my mesmer way more and way better, but rarely get rage quits once i win a fight i “shouldnt have”. My engi on the otherhand i stopped playing because no one wanted to fight it, caused so many join party flame then shut games down before i even finish the opponents.

Im not saying its super powerful, just that it is by far the most annoying due to the fact that a lot of people feel like they cant do anything against it. Kind of like the OPs problem with mesmer (i assume this is due to the players not knowing the other professions fully including skill rotation possibilities traits and builds).

Personally the 2 classes that i feel the most confident completely destroying are engi and mesmer just for the fact that i have played so many builds on both and understand them rather deeply. A lot of what i found difficult to deal with when i started the game turned out to be super simple to counter play. Seriously how many people fall for magnet pull+prybar right off the bat, even though 5 min of practice and you will be able to dodge magnet every time as long as you have stamina.

Oh and OP mesmer is way worse at tossing out confusion than thief/warrior/engi it will be even worse post update.

jihm.2315:

perma daze, confusions and damage that will eventually wear you down even if they play a survival build ,
also dissappearing and spawning clones all the time, real gods of space and clowns at the same time.

what is the theory behind this irritating class?

i think they are gamebreaking beyond limits and in need of big changes especially at their cc, they should be able to confuse you visually not having you perma stunned confused with stacks of bleeds .

sorry for my english

And lol confusion on perma stun is pointless even if they could manage it. Good luck fighting someone in 1v1 or 2v1 with a survival build on guard you will be mocked, out maneuvered, outdamaged and out played. Stick with your team/zerg and leave 1v1 for people with builds made for it, then wipe your tears (not an insult i assume you are focusing too kitten trying to tell the difference in-between the clone and the real one… hint it is the one with all the buffs and dodging) and learn how other classes work.

Your english is just fine to be honest.

Pwent.2639:

jihm.2315:

perma daze, confusions and damage that will eventually wear you down even if they play a survival build ,
also dissappearing and spawning clones all the time, real gods of space and clowns at the same time.

what is the theory behind this irritating class?

i think they are gamebreaking beyond limits and in need of big changes especially at their cc, they should be able to confuse you visually not having you perma stunned confused with stacks of bleeds .

sorry for my english

And lol confusion on perma stun is pointless even if they could manage it. Good luck fighting someone in 1v1 or 2v1 with a survival build on guard you will be mocked, out maneuvered, outdamaged and out played. Stick with your team/zerg and leave 1v1 for people with builds made for it, then wipe your tears (not an insult i assume you are focusing too kitten trying to tell the difference in-between the clone and the real one… hint it is the one with all the buffs and dodging) and learn how other classes work.

Your english is just fine to be honest.

i was meaning if mesmer plays a survival they are still unkillable and what changes if you find the real one? you are already dead from debuffs cc and they can dissapear again and this can continue endlessly until they kill you , im not getting outplayed i dont even have a proper chance to play.

the find the real one is getting old so better find a new excuse, even if you find the real one there escaping and counter abilities are limitless.

mesmers are too powerful in certain situations but people use the l2p card to cover there opness and even if i dont usually use a strict 1vs1 build (i use shouts instead of meditations most time) i still deserve a chance to fight back than getting steamrolled by a class that its full of dirty tactics.

maybe that why warriors need to be op to sum with mesmers ridiculousness ,
maybe all classes should be at warrior levels.

it was the last profession confirmed after all wanted to have the mesmer also in gw2
what a bad luck :P

i also hate this profession most to fight against, but well we have to deal with it :P

a good mesmer player is still a pain, thats the real ai spam, zero fun to fight mesmers porting/running from one side to the other side in 1vs1 servers.
find the real one each 5 seconds and dodge well in the same time + trying to get him is not much fun, also to retarget all the time.

so fighting a mesmer is all about find the real one and retarget him + dodge well + try to get him when he is porting from one side to the other + attacking out of invis.
with condi profession its for sure much more easy but with my offguardian its not much fun if its not in conquest mode.

looks like the only hard problem is the thief if i read throw mesmer topics, but mesmer is not the only one have to deal with this sword/pistol chese

i dont understand most mesmers whining for buff atm, its still a verry powerful profession.
and after patch it will be maybe a pain again (maybe, depends on runes)
i remember the old mesmer on close point times really well by trying to kill those with my trapper ranger on point.
it was more that i was off point with my trapper to dont die and get him :P
just because it was mobile like hell and and also 1vs1 strong,
that was not really blanced

Bring something to remove conditions. Don’t try to pressure the mesmer, that’s what he wants and if you don’t do it, he will lose his pressure on you. Confusion from mesmers is weak compared to other classes because it only has a very short duration.

Edit: Really, the only difference to a condi necro or engi is the weaker application of conditions and stealth. This means a mesmer will take longer to kill you (and because of the huge confusion part will rely on you to do the damagepart) but will have other escape options. The only reason mesmer is the favorite roamer of them is the easy escape.

@ OP

If we are talking about PvP then it’s just a L2P issue.
In some guilds you are not even allowed to take a Mesmer in tPvP in the same way you can’t play a Ranger in most serious WvW guilds outside of roaming.

If you are talking about WvW it’s also a L2P issue
Let’s be honest shout Guardians can’t solo kill any good roamer build played by … a decent player. It’s simply too slow this as nothing to do with stealth or clones :
Warrior ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Engineers ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Theif ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Ele ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Mesmer ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
But anyway you can’t get the upper hand.

Finally,

Mesmers are too powerful in certain situations but people use the l2p card to cover there opness and even if i dont usually use a strict 1vs1 build (i use shouts instead of meditations most time) i still deserve a chance to fight back than getting steamrolled by a class that its full of dirty tactics.

Really ? I was under the illusion Ranger had no place in organized WvW group. And also, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmer got marginal roles while the meta is 80% Warriors + Guardians.
+ Guardians have the best PvP bunker/support builds.
Thank you. Now I know guardians “are too powerful in certain situations”.
The time to nerf them as come.

Redg.9807:

@ OP

If we are talking about PvP then it’s just a L2P issue.
In some guilds you are not even allowed to take a Mesmer in tPvP in the same way you can’t play a Ranger in most serious WvW guilds outside of roaming.

If you are talking about WvW it’s also a L2P issue
Let’s be honest shout Guardians can’t solo kill any good roamer build played by … a decent player. It’s simply too slow this as nothing to do with stealth or clones :
Warrior ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Engineers ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Theif ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Ele ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Mesmer ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
But anyway you can’t get the upper hand.

Finally,

Mesmers are too powerful in certain situations but people use the l2p card to cover there opness and even if i dont usually use a strict 1vs1 build (i use shouts instead of meditations most time) i still deserve a chance to fight back than getting steamrolled by a class that its full of dirty tactics.

Really ? I was under the illusion Ranger had no place in organized WvW group. And also, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmer got marginal roles while the meta is 80% Warriors + Guardians.
+ Guardians have the best PvP bunker/support builds.
Thank you. Now I know guardians “are too powerful in certain situations”.
The time to nerf them as come.

if you have something to point out about nerfing guardian be my guest, blobing in wvw is broken anyway, but still i cant troll whole groups kill almost anyone that passes by and never die myself .
btw mesmer is the top class for snaring people into blobs in wvw.
at the end i must roll a mesmer and start frustrating people, it will send out a clearer message for the game.

One can’t expect to beat someone who has a roaming build with a bus build.
One can try, but not expect to.

And even good roamers often change some utilities or trait when they see they are likely to fight some other class.

If I see a necro or an engie anywhere, i’ll put on at least one condi removal on my skill bar. If I see a war, stunbreak would be my natural choice. If I see a roamer I encountered previously, I will change things in order to counter his or her spec.

My roaming spec is close to my bus one (for not wanting to retrait all the time – new maj gonna be nice). But I know I am bound to lose duels with my bus build.

You say yourself you don’t have the best build for roaming, but you think that is not a L2P issue? You think you should be able to win them all without having to adapt?

Gonna quote a signature I love :
“Hi Anet, please nerf rock, paper is fine
Cordially, scissors”

Learn to adapt is a L2P issue.
Know you can’t win? Run before the fight.
Didn’t see the ennemy before he was on you?
Learn to be aware of all that surrounds you.

But first, go in the guard subforum, and ask for a build to beat mesmers.
Shouts won’t cut it, as far as I know…

[quote=3856839;jihm.2315:]

jihm.2315:

btw mesmer is the top class for snaring people into blobs in wvw.
at the end i must roll a mesmer and start frustrating people, it will send out a clearer message for the game.

Never heard this one before. Thanks for the laugh.

As far as Dueling mesmers is concerned, and being a guard main. Pure Shout build is not that good to fight a mesmer with. I know My meditation guard can kill mesmers( but you have to play ape **** aggressive if you want to do anything the the mesmer meaningful)

With Mesmer AI Phantasm spam, going invisible, blinking, stun/daze, distortion, Aegis/Protection(PU procs). it gets ridiculous even more so on a Condition build, but that just ends up in a stalemate if you just refuse to fight.

@Redg – oh please support builds and bunkering builds can’t do anything for themselves accept hold a point in Spvp, or just being a boon machine. Any other guardian building for survival is nothing but a slow moving rock, that’s pretty much a free kill. As a dev said Guardian’s are in a good spot so, your thoughts on nerfing them are invalid(besides they’re alread getting nerfed with the vigor change )

@Jportell pre-nerfed confusion was really OP, in terms of roaming in wvw, current confusion is much better(people still complain about it since perplexity and warrior trait :P)

Mesmers in GW1 were to be actually feared.
In GW2, they are close but no cigar.
Hell I’m still trying to figure out what the hell to do with mesmer after 1.5 years…

Lol.

toutatis.9245:

Everything arenanet ever did for mesmers was creating two builds or so that are quite easy to play but are so vulnerable at some points they don’t satisfy when it gets serious. The real problems for mesmers aren’t getting looked at. I don’t think the profession gets a lot of affection from the developpers.

yeah we get nothing at all.they took gw1 mes and put all the gw1 mesmer skills into 1 condition called confusion and then they nerfed it to the ground. now we are stuck with no wvw raid builds, a ton of bugs, no attention, get useless gm traits like 1k healing power(what a joke), we got put into the role of a weaker hitting thief with less armor and power, we are 1v1 only now, have ai only, that has been bugged foe ages, f1-f4 is useless without ip…etc. but no attention from devs ever!they fix some bugs but wont help us to get anything for wvw…i feel so stuck with my mesmer!

selan.8354:

toutatis.9245:

Everything arenanet ever did for mesmers was creating two builds or so that are quite easy to play but are so vulnerable at some points they don’t satisfy when it gets serious. The real problems for mesmers aren’t getting looked at. I don’t think the profession gets a lot of affection from the developpers.

yeah we get nothing at all.they took gw1 mes and put all the gw1 mesmer skills into 1 condition called confusion and then they nerfed it to the ground. now we are stuck with no wvw raid builds, a ton of bugs, no attention, get useless gm traits like 1k healing power(what a joke), we got put into the role of a weaker hitting thief with less armor and power, we are 1v1 only now, have ai only, that has been bugged foe ages, f1-f4 is useless without ip…etc. but no attention from devs ever!they fix some bugs but wont help us to get anything for wvw…i feel so stuck with my mesmer!

still the best class for spvp and one of the top roamers when i play spvp with mesmer i can beat a lot people almost effortlessly and i dont even know the skills well
ill keep playing and exposing the game for creating the most annoying class ever

Perma-daze? Are you sure you weren’t fighting a Raptor or perhaps even a Moa? You can totally move out of their frontal cone perma-daze attack.

Azgarn.2145:

Not sure about mesmer CC, but condi mesmers definitely need some adjustment and toning down. At least in small/roaming fights and 1v1. Infinite stunbreak/teleports, stealth, and continuous offensive pressure.

This is 100% right and from what I’ve seen in WvW is the only big problem with mesmers.

Elixir.2169:

Azgarn.2145:

Not sure about mesmer CC, but condi mesmers definitely need some adjustment and toning down. At least in small/roaming fights and 1v1. Infinite stunbreak/teleports, stealth, and continuous offensive pressure.

This is 100% right and from what I’ve seen in WvW is the only big problem with mesmers.

You realize, I hope, that Mesmer/Thief are intended to be beasts in 1v1/small-man roaming mode? Not to mention, if you bring down roaming Mesmer effectiveness, there’re still few true “group” roles, besides the much-lamented Utilitybot. A good deal of that issue, of course, stemming from the Great Confusion Nerf™.

with thief nerfed, mesmer can easily back to its throne as we all were saying.

jihm.2315:

selan.8354:

toutatis.9245:

Everything arenanet ever did for mesmers was creating two builds or so that are quite easy to play but are so vulnerable at some points they don’t satisfy when it gets serious. The real problems for mesmers aren’t getting looked at. I don’t think the profession gets a lot of affection from the developpers.

yeah we get nothing at all.they took gw1 mes and put all the gw1 mesmer skills into 1 condition called confusion and then they nerfed it to the ground. now we are stuck with no wvw raid builds, a ton of bugs, no attention, get useless gm traits like 1k healing power(what a joke), we got put into the role of a weaker hitting thief with less armor and power, we are 1v1 only now, have ai only, that has been bugged foe ages, f1-f4 is useless without ip…etc. but no attention from devs ever!they fix some bugs but wont help us to get anything for wvw…i feel so stuck with my mesmer!

still the best class for spvp and one of the top roamers when i play spvp with mesmer i can beat a lot people almost effortlessly and i dont even know the skills well
ill keep playing and exposing the game for creating the most annoying class ever

hotjoin? – may be
solo/team arena – sorry, no

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

selan.8354:

toutatis.9245:

Everything arenanet ever did for mesmers was creating two builds or so that are quite easy to play but are so vulnerable at some points they don’t satisfy when it gets serious. The real problems for mesmers aren’t getting looked at. I don’t think the profession gets a lot of affection from the developpers.

yeah we get nothing at all.they took gw1 mes and put all the gw1 mesmer skills into 1 condition called confusion and then they nerfed it to the ground. now we are stuck with no wvw raid builds, a ton of bugs, no attention, get useless gm traits like 1k healing power(what a joke), we got put into the role of a weaker hitting thief with less armor and power, we are 1v1 only now, have ai only, that has been bugged foe ages, f1-f4 is useless without ip…etc. but no attention from devs ever!they fix some bugs but wont help us to get anything for wvw…i feel so stuck with my mesmer!

still the best class for spvp and one of the top roamers when i play spvp with mesmer i can beat a lot people almost effortlessly and i dont even know the skills well
ill keep playing and exposing the game for creating the most annoying class ever

hotjoin? – may be
solo/team arena – sorry, no

^This 1000x over this…