Guild Wars 2

I have read many post complaining about warrior passive “healing” yet nobody complains about the mezmer passive damage AND healing. There is a build where the Mezmer can:

• receive up to 30 seconds of “regeneration”
• Spam clones/phantasms non stop
• deal direct damage / passive damage/ AND condition damage.
• Can cure conditions non stop thanks to mantra healing
• can remain in stealth for long time.

All these in just ONE SINGLE build. I believe this build is called PU i heard some one saying that.

Passive play needs to be tone down for Mezmers.

Yeah PU kill so fast eh? What CLASS and BUILD are you playing eh? Did you build to counter PU or to play what you like or both eh?

Yeah, awesome damage you get there with PU, I would call it insane!

Great troll thread, would read again!

Ah, it’s that 6/6/6/6/6. I have it and farm poor hambows and turreters.
You forgot at that build we can strip all your boons in 1 second and interrupt to death.

The old 6/6/6/6/6. Sword/torch, GS, Staff and Scepter/Pistol. No idea why more Mesmers aren’t running it.

Yep, definitely 6/6/6/6/6

The 30 sec of regeneration only if you cannot kill his phantasm or if he didn´t shatter them.

Maybe this build? (its noy PU).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npRtlpxGNcrNipxc6quaLSGQDlskxB-TJRAwAAeCA42fwzlAYcZAA

The build exists but you can do more damage with others setups.

I’ll answer one part of your post seriously – yes passive play needs to be toned down, bugs need to be fixed and active play needs to be buffed/supported.

Now for the rest of your post – 6/6/6/6/6 with four weapon sets sounds about right. This Mesmer can also portal across dimenstions, for example direct from stonemist to stonegaze spire, and is able to fly on an illusionary broomstick across all zones in Tyria. It can summon 3 phantasms instantly, each equivalent to a champion npc, and an army of clones that rival most zergs, each of which explodes when breathed on proccing bleed/confusion/burning/torment/chill/poison/weakness/vulnerability and blind on all targets in 1200 radius.
I heard these mesmers were trained by Queen Jennah herself.

Yes please! Passive damage on the Mesmer has come to cripple Mesmer dps. So please remove it, and bring in direct damage application.

Let me break it down for you. Mesmer do have a lot of passive condition application. In fact pretty much anything a Mesmer does applies some additional condition or effect. The trouble is unless the target is actively attacking the mesmer and/or his clones these things don’t proc. An enemy can simply stop attacking and he actively takes the pressure off himself.

Couple this with nerfs to confusion damage, and retal damage, and the mesmers passive damage went right out the window. Nerfs to things like blinding befuddlement and condition procs from chaos armor etc mean that application is lame. Then you can look at things like scepter 2, 5 stacks of torment GREAT!… but only if your enemy procs the riposte by attacking you, and even then there’s a delay between the block and the hit so the target can simply dodge, block, or evade.

So yeah, Mesmers passive damage application is severely kitten and doesn’t even begin to compare to the direct application of other classes (see engie, necro, whatever). So sure, remove it, and replace it with direct application that’d be infinitely more effective.

silentnight warrior.2714:

The 30 sec of regeneration only if you cannot kill his phantasm or if he didn´t shatter them.

Maybe this build? (its noy PU).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npRtlpxGNcrNipxc6quaLSGQDlskxB-TJRAwAAeCA42fwzlAYcZAA

The build exists but you can do more damage with others setups.

The point made here is that passive play needs to be tone down for these kinds of builds. Little by little your hp gets down and keeps going down until you are left with 0 hp and the mezmer kills you. More and more Mezmers are using this in PvP and frankly it is getting annoying that these suckers have permanent regeneration because they are not destroying their clones, if you destroy them you get punish with conditions. So either way you lose!

Oh I have really bad news for you OP. Guardians are even more Op. They have PERMANENT REGEN!!!!!11111 OMG how can they. Also they can blast, and pull and push and heal and buff and be invincible and deal tons of damage and cleans all condition and jump you like a billion times. Truly you must agree 6/6/6/6/6 Guardians are way way worse then 6/6/6/6/6 Mesmers.

Hitman.5829:

The point made here is that passive play needs to be tone down for these kinds of builds. Little by little your hp gets down and keeps going down until you are left with 0 hp and the mezmer kills you. More and more Mezmers are using this in PvP and frankly it is getting annoying that these suckers have permanent regeneration because they are not destroying their clones, if you destroy them you get punish with conditions. So either way you lose!

Yeah, I know this is just soooo unfair. Mesmer attacks should heal you instead of reducing your HP! It’s so overpowered!
Destroying their clones?! This sounds like a bug to me, clones should just be standing around doing 1dmg max.

Yoseue.4251:

Destroying their clones?! This sounds like a bug to me, clones should just be standing around doing 1dmg max.

Shhhhhh…. T.T

We don’t joke about that. They actually used to do the same amount of damage as you on there Autos in the Beta. Yes it was not balanced.

*Mesmer
*Mesmer
*Mesmer
*Mesmer
*Mesmer
*Mesmer

If you’re really talking about the build silentknight warrior posted, then you’re exaggerating. A lot. If not, please provide the correct build, otherwise you will just get trolled.
“Tanky” builds which are capable of dealing a lot damage are a problem in general at the moment, thanks to might stacking runes.

Hitman.5829:

Little by little your hp gets down and keeps going down until you are left with 0 hp and the mezmer kills you.

Did you try using your healing-skill?

It’s just not fair more and more Mesmers lately are dodging my bursts and then attacking me back!?!?! That’s not how Mesmer works. I hate getting killed by thing’s I don’t understand. Nerf 6/6/6/6/6 hambow Mesmer 2 tanky and passive. Has regen.

Hitman.5829:

There is a build where the Mezmer can:

• receive up to 30 seconds of “regeneration”
• Spam clones/phantasms non stop
• deal direct damage / passive damage/ AND condition damage.
• Can cure conditions non stop thanks to mantra healing
• can remain in stealth for long time.

Ok, let’s go through this:

1. Yes, 15 in Inspiration + standing next to a Phantasm for 24 seconds gives you 30 seconds of Regeneration. If there#s multiple and your target is nicely holding still (you tried this on a dummy then, I imagine? :P ), can do it in ~10 seconds.
2. Best I can do is 4 Phantasms in 15 seconds. And that only works once, and I need both utility phantasms (those which do virtually no damage) equipped to do that. Realistically it’s 2 every 15 seconds in a full melee setup, 20 for anything else.
3. Yes well, ever noticed how a Necro wielding a Scepter and using a Blood Fiend deals direct damage, condition damage and passive at the same time? Or a Thief with Shortbow and Elite? Or a Warrior who jumps into your group and crits?
4. Ah, but this point contradicts your second. I thought we were using Signet of the Ether?
5. Well if 6s is long for you, sure. Though by now you’re running out of trait points if you also want 6 in Chaos. Because if the direct damage is meaningful then you got ~10 points sunk there, and you need another ~8 on top of the condition damage. And now another line? Where do you get all the points?!

The op is right to want a mesmer nerf but if they get nerfed they will be another undowerpowered classes. (similar to the ranger situation).

Here’s a PSA from us Mesmer mains:

Hitman.5829:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The 30 sec of regeneration only if you cannot kill his phantasm or if he didn´t shatter them.

Maybe this build? (its noy PU).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npRtlpxGNcrNipxc6quaLSGQDlskxB-TJRAwAAeCA42fwzlAYcZAA

The build exists but you can do more damage with others setups.

The point made here is that passive play needs to be tone down for these kinds of builds. Little by little your hp gets down and keeps going down until you are left with 0 hp and the mezmer kills you. More and more Mezmers are using this in PvP and frankly it is getting annoying that these suckers have permanent regeneration because they are not destroying their clones, if you destroy them you get punish with conditions. So either way you lose!

That build also strip boons and can shut down a class if played right. I´ve seen that build in pvp too ( i dont play it, i prefer 20/20/0/0/30 with torment on shatter).

Passive play needs to be toned down greatly in all builds, passive healing or passive damage needs to go.
The problem is if you do that you need to rework some classes. Mesmer is the king of passive damage by default (this meaning that in every build they are more worried in defense while their phantas / shatters and conditions do the job). Thats unique to mesmer in almost every build. What mesmer have is active defense, they need to work their position constantly to be able to avoid damage.

I had an idea before for mesmers:
Mind Focus
Source similar to Adrenaline, which is filled with clone/ilussion shatters, attacking.

Every phantasm attacks once at full damage at summon. Then, they constantly damage the opponent ever 1-2 seconds for far lesser damage, adding to Mind Focus resource.

You can then use Mind Focus to order your creations full-damage attack, empower one of your attacks/heals or shorten cooldowns, or such.

Yes, I’m a fan of resource management

Hitman, what is going on with your posts? You seem to just target a class and rage against them without providing any evidence or experience with the topic. The lack of merit in your posts makes it near impossible to take you seriously, even though I agree the passive damage of some Mesmer builds is pathetic. That falls more into all the AI builds though, its more than a Mesmer problem.

Sounds like someone got owned by a half decent Mes recently. Mes have a number of weaknesses which are easily exploited. To be a good mes takes a lot of concentration and very fast reflexes which are not always on tap depending on the day. I would say PU is the only real good build that gives glass builds some help, but it not OP or even particularly good against some builds/classes especially in sPvP/WvW.

Poor troll attempt. I much preferred your “Stances should Reveal Thieves and Mesmers” thread. That one was more….punchy

Simonoly.4352:

Poor troll attempt. I much preferred your “Stances should Reveal Thieves and Mesmers” thread. That one was more….punchy

Ah, is this the clever “Do something to make Warriors stronger”-troll-thread poster? If yes, this is kinda disappointing, I agree.

Meh..mer 2 stronk! buff warrior! – This thread in a nutshell.

OP reminded me someone…

Hitman.5829:

I have read many post complaining about warrior passive “healing” yet nobody complains about the mezmer passive damage AND healing. There is a build where the Mezmer can:

• receive up to 30 seconds of “regeneration”
• Spam clones/phantasms non stop
• deal direct damage / passive damage/ AND condition damage.
• Can cure conditions non stop thanks to mantra healing
• can remain in stealth for long time.

All these in just ONE SINGLE build. I believe this build is called PU i heard some one saying that.

Passive play needs to be tone down for Mezmers.

I’ll make a serious reply.

Hitman, it sounds like your ran into a Phantasm build Mesmer using torch, not PU. Many are joking here since it is well known that this build cannot excel in tPvP play and is only passable in Hot Join against newer players. As long as you kill the Phantasm in 2 hits (or 1 hit on crit), the Mesmer is open and extremely vulnerable for the next 16s before he can summon again.

It is not a hard build to counter, and even easier if you are running next to a teammate with any form of AoE.

Finally, if you saw more than 30s regen, that just means you did not kill any phantasm and allowed the Mesmer to sit still for nearly 20s. That’s the only way he can obtain 30s regen. An unacceptable performance for any PvP play.

Simonoly.4352:

Poor troll attempt. I much preferred your “Stances should Reveal Thieves and Mesmers” thread. That one was more….punchy

Hold on; that was this guy? Now I know why I thought I’ve seen this nickname before… yeah, that thread was quite hilarious as well.

I really do hope that he takes the serious replies in here and makes something out of them (like improving himself to become a better player).

Saturn.6591:

Simonoly.4352:

Poor troll attempt. I much preferred your “Stances should Reveal Thieves and Mesmers” thread. That one was more….punchy

Hold on; that was this guy? Now I know why I thought I’ve seen this nickname before… yeah, that thread was quite hilarious as well.

I really do hope that he takes the serious replies in here and makes something out of them (like improving himself to become a better player).

psshh i don’t..

Who else will entertain me while I’m at work?

Rym.1469:

I had an idea before for mesmers:
Mind Focus
Source similar to Adrenaline, which is filled with clone/ilussion shatters, attacking.

Every phantasm attacks once at full damage at summon. Then, they constantly damage the opponent ever 1-2 seconds for far lesser damage, adding to Mind Focus resource.

You can then use Mind Focus to order your creations full-damage attack, empower one of your attacks/heals or shorten cooldowns, or such.

Yes, I’m a fan of resource management

I can’t believe no one else has responded to this post. You literally just fixed the cheesy game play of the Mesmer by the simplest means and one that would actually promote skill.

This is the first post I have bothered to log back in and quote for a while simply because I have given up on this community and game, but you good sir give me hope that it can achieve what it was meant to be if the developers listen.

Vanthian.9267:

Rym.1469:

I had an idea before for mesmers:
Mind Focus
Source similar to Adrenaline, which is filled with clone/ilussion shatters, attacking.

Every phantasm attacks once at full damage at summon. Then, they constantly damage the opponent ever 1-2 seconds for far lesser damage, adding to Mind Focus resource.

You can then use Mind Focus to order your creations full-damage attack, empower one of your attacks/heals or shorten cooldowns, or such.

Yes, I’m a fan of resource management

I can’t believe no one else has responded to this post. You literally just fixed the cheesy game play of the Mesmer by the simplest means and one that would actually promote skill.

This is the first post I have bothered to log back in and quote for a while simply because I have given up on this community and game, but you good sir give me hope that it can achieve what it was meant to be if the developers listen.

And the complete removal of adrenaline (and hundred blades, replace it with a skill that shoot flowers into the air) would totally fix the Warrior.

Changing the basics of a class is a really really bad idea. Fixing the class, sure. But changing fundamental mechanics on the whole (ie how damage works) is not fixing it. The only thing that need a rework on the whole in terms of mechanics is mantras. Why?

Because resource management sucks.

As a mesmer main I can tell you that if they’d reduce the passive damage the mesmer deals, they’d also increase the active damage. If your thread would achieve that, then all the noob mesmers would be nerfed to the ground but the good mesmer players would recive a really strong buff. Do you really want that? :P I’d support your idea =)

Solori.6025:

Saturn.6591:

I really do hope that he takes the serious replies in here and makes something out of them (like improving himself to become a better player).

psshh i don’t..

Who else will entertain me while I’m at work?

Hahaha xD. Well, I’m a nice guy (I think), so I’d like him to improve and stop making himself look silly. ^^

Me Games Ma.8426:

As a mesmer main I can tell you that if they’d reduce the passive damage the mesmer deals, they’d also increase the active damage. If your thread would achieve that, then all the noob mesmers would be nerfed to the ground but the good mesmer players would recive a really strong buff. Do you really want that? :P I’d support your idea =)

This is true. But they would not buff damage that much because mesmer already can do very good damage. What they probably would do is increase base hp/armour so mesmer can sustain better while attacking.

^
Well I don’t think they’d increase the Damage of Mindwrack or Halting Strike.
I rather think they’d change the damage of:

• all the AAs
• Blurred Frenzy
• Illusionary Counter
• Chaosstorm
• Mindstab
• Illusionary Wave
• Illusionary Riposte
• Confounding Images
• The Prestige
• Cry of Frustration

Blurred frenzy is one thing that could definitely do with a slight damage buff, whatever happens.

Curunen.8729:

Blurred frenzy is one thing that could definitely do with a slight damage buff, whatever happens.

If they lower the amout of passive damage, mesmers will need that.

key to beating PU Mesmer is walking away and fighting something else.

this is an Anet balance dev….pretending to be a troll player….just to test mesmer player reaction to the future “Skill Bar” segment.

as compensation, they will attempt to fix 3 skill bugs…..1 will be fixed, i will not, and one will get worse.

Dawdler.8521:

And the complete removal of adrenaline (and hundred blades, replace it with a skill that shoot flowers into the air) would totally fix the Warrior.

Changing the basics of a class is a really really bad idea. Fixing the class, sure. But changing fundamental mechanics on the whole (ie how damage works) is not fixing it. The only thing that need a rework on the whole in terms of mechanics is mantras. Why?

Because resource management sucks.

This here is a great example as to why I left this horrid game. Between players like this and the horrible direction Anet took this game (not to mention how they balance) it is no wonder why all the slightly above average to pro, and everything in between, PvP players left.

Instead of listening to the actual Pro players (when they had them) and decent ones they cave to the ones like I quoted.

Resource management sucks? Yes having to time, manage, and think about things while playing a game sucks. We should all just smash our face against the key board as fast as we can when we see things off cooldown to determine the winner. Long live Guild Wars 2.

Vanthian.9267:

Dawdler.8521:

And the complete removal of adrenaline (and hundred blades, replace it with a skill that shoot flowers into the air) would totally fix the Warrior.

Changing the basics of a class is a really really bad idea. Fixing the class, sure. But changing fundamental mechanics on the whole (ie how damage works) is not fixing it. The only thing that need a rework on the whole in terms of mechanics is mantras. Why?

Because resource management sucks.

This here is a great example as to why I left this horrid game. Between players like this and the horrible direction Anet took this game (not to mention how they balance) it is no wonder why all the slightly above average to pro, and everything in between, PvP players left.

Instead of listening to the actual Pro players (when they had them) and decent ones they cave to the ones like I quoted.

Resource management sucks? Yes having to time, manage, and think about things while playing a game sucks. We should all just smash our face against the key board as fast as we can when we see things off cooldown to determine the winner. Long live Guild Wars 2.

Youre saying Anet listens to me?! Ooooh I feel so flattered. Because that would be amazing. Last time I checked, anet listen to no one when it comess to the Mesmer.

And yes, I will keep thinking resources managed sucks no matter the class. Action based counterplay is where its at. I got enough on my hands trying to manage unruly clones.

I will also keep thinking that changing core mechanics of a class is a bad idea. I started playing Mesmer because I like how it plays overall. Not because of some feverish dream of how I can change the Mesmer to be how I want it to be. Shall we remove the pet from the Ranger perhaps? Add initiative and stealth to the Guardian? Make the Warrior the ultimate pet class that can summon necro minions? Perhaps give the engineer clone on dodge?

Anet please listen to me!!! My elementalist need to cause all magic damage that completely bypass toughness. And also a 75% runspeed signet. Thanks. That’d be great.

30seconds of regeneration isnt all that amazing. 130hp/sec, that doesnt in anyway compare to Warriors passive healing. Who, without gearing for healingpower get 362 from Healing Signet and another 120per second from Adrenal Health.
No contest, Warrior is far and beyond much better in this department. So i dont see how this is relevant.

I also dont see where all that passive damage comes from. Mesmer doesnt have that great of autoattacks. And fantasms dont auto-spam themselves, these are active abilities that need to be cast on a target. Clones dont do any damage worth mentioning, unless used in a Shatter… but thats an active ability.

And stealth, bar i believe one trait, is all actively cast abilities from either weaponskills, utilities or an elite.

So where is all this passive play?

“Last time I checked, anet listen to no one when it comess to the Mesmer.”

You are wrong. Mesmer is the ONLY profession in the game who avoided to be nerfed because ANet listened mesmers.

The trait DE was anounced to be nerfed but ANet didn’t go ahead with it based on mesmers feedback.

Terrahero.9358:

30seconds of regeneration isnt all that amazing. 130hp/sec, that doesnt in anyway compare to Warriors passive healing. Who, without gearing for healingpower get 362 from Healing Signet and another 120per second from Adrenal Health.
No contest, Warrior is far and beyond much better in this department. So i dont see how this is relevant.

I also dont see where all that passive damage comes from. Mesmer doesnt have that great of autoattacks. And fantasms dont auto-spam themselves, these are active abilities that need to be cast on a target. Clones dont do any damage worth mentioning, unless used in a Shatter… but thats an active ability.

And stealth, bar i believe one trait, is all actively cast abilities from either weaponskills, utilities or an elite.

So where is all this passive play?

OP was talking about passive damage. People complain about passive healing but are forgeting the passive damage from classes. Thats what OP is saying.

And mesmers can have more than regeneration as a passive defense if they are traited for it (aegis, protection, vigor)

“So where is all this passive play?”

When you can summon one / two phantasm and forget about it while he still does damage from time to time, persue the target while you are worried mostly about your defense.
When you can shatter them and they folow the target anywere he moves and you can still be doing something else.
When you kill the clones and get filled with conditions.
When you drop a field and interrupt everyone in it without need to see what are they doing.

Mesmer is all about passive damage. The only mesmer build i can with see less passive damage is the meta one. And even that have some.

silentnight warrior.2714:

When you can summon one / two phantasm and forget about it while he still does damage from time to time, persue the target while you are worried mostly about your defense.
When you can shatter them and they folow the target anywere he moves and you can still be doing something else.
When you kill the clones and get filled with conditions.
When you drop a field and interrupt everyone in it without need to see what are they doing.

Because this is how a Mesmer plays. Uh huh. Btw, that interrupt on Chaos Storm was fixed half a year ago. :P

Suffice to say, what you are saying about Mesmer is like saying Warriors are best in everything. Wishful thinking that the class which killed you is so overpowered that you had no chance, so you don’t have to justify your mistakes to yourself.

(Not saying that warriors don’t need a nerf, but they’re far from the best in everything)

Carighan.6758:

silentnight warrior.2714:

When you can summon one / two phantasm and forget about it while he still does damage from time to time, persue the target while you are worried mostly about your defense.
When you can shatter them and they folow the target anywere he moves and you can still be doing something else.
When you kill the clones and get filled with conditions.
When you drop a field and interrupt everyone in it without need to see what are they doing.

Because this is how a Mesmer plays. Uh huh. Btw, that interrupt on Chaos Storm was fixed half a year ago. :P

Suffice to say, what you are saying about Mesmer is like saying Warriors are best in everything. Wishful thinking that the class which killed you is so overpowered that you had no chance, so you don’t have to justify your mistakes to yourself.

(Not saying that warriors don’t need a nerf, but they’re far from the best in everything)

Like you i know that warrior is not the best at anything. I also know that mesmers play that way, i was only responding to someone who dont know were the passive damage / gameplay come from.

And Chaos Storm still works for me

It used to always trigger the daze the moment it was laid down. Actually worked that way for a fairly long time, which made it kinda awesome. Now that it’s random… meh, too unreliable.

Poor OP . . . you learn (i hope) at the hard way to not come and QQ for nerf without basis.

I hate this “nerf them, buff me” threads.

6\6\6\6\6 the new number of the beast. . .