Guild Wars 2

I have been seeing warriors that are impossible to catch or get away as they use their GS Whirl or sword leap. I even had one of these guys catch me on my Ele despite the fact I was using FGS which is an elite.

I think it only fair for them to have to have longer cool down when these kind of weapon skills miss, just like it was done to ride the lightening.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Elementalist and Thieves are supposed to be the most mobile classes in the game and not warriors.

RTL CD nerf should be reverted and all mobility skills meant to be gap closers (rush/rtl/savage leap/heartseeker/swoop/etc) should be changed to only function (in combat) when you have something targeted.

Warriors are supposed to be A+ students in every subject. Working as intended.
Didn’t you get the memo?

All warrior’s mobility are effected by cripple/chill/immobilize.

Where as Elementalist and Thieves can teleport away the same distance even when effected by snares.

runeblade.7514:

All warrior’s mobility are effected by cripple/chill/immobilize.

Where as Elementalist and Thieves can teleport away the same distance even when effected by snares.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mobile_Strikes

Substance E.4852:

runeblade.7514:

All warrior’s mobility are effected by cripple/chill/immobilize.

Where as Elementalist and Thieves can teleport away the same distance even when effected by snares.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mobile_Strikes

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

Warriors shouldn’t be this mobile.

But very often, any Warrior specced for it is just a troll and wouldn’t be able to kill you anyway, unless you just stand still and eat 100B and 100B ofc.

I do agree. Their mobility is equal to Rangers & Thieves, who both are pinpointed “AGILITY” fighter. WvW should be about Scouts report, people support, some do special tasks, and warriors are kind of tanks who move slowly but they’re serious.
Slowing them down would make WWW feel mutch better at less rush.

It is time to make ALL classes needed for some kind of sieges. Just like in a BattleField game. Everyone is needed. If some messing from a fort wall, ask Rangers to neutralize them. Spotted the healers and commanders? Thieves will fulfill the contract.
Elementalists and Engineers are the two side of same coin, go ahead, let them do their job. Etc…

I wouldn’t have a problem with it if they weren’t using skills the devs themselves call gap closers". They simply need to make weapons skills that offer gap closers require a target in range for them to function. Utility skills on the other hand I am okay with because they have the trade off of taking up a utility slot. But a simple weapon should not offer so much more then utilities.

Anet, just nerf GS mobility already. I’m drowning in tears over here.

Requiring a target only addresses cases where a warrior is running away from you. The OP’s scenario was a warrior chasing him down. The problem is that warrior has too many mobility skills with relatively low cool-downs, particularly with a greatsword equipped.

This would make sense if the profession required melee range, but the ability to swap to several different ranged weapons eliminates much of the need for mobility.

ANet / Warrior players / Everyone else

So much fun on Warrior:

1. Sword 2
2. Shield 4
3. Bull’s Charge
4. Signet of Rage
(wait 3 seconds)
5. Sword 2 again

You can cover an absolutely massive amount of ground with that combo in a very short period of time.

Obviously you don’t always have those skills up at once, but it’s pretty fun nonetheless.

runeblade.7514:

All warrior’s mobility are effected by cripple/chill/immobilize.

Where as Elementalist and Thieves can teleport away the same distance even when effected by snares.

To bad that those work only against bad players. A good player will time is removels in such a way that his movment skills arent effected by it, not to mention how much cripple/chill/immobilze removels warriors have. And if you dont have movment skills to close the gap again you cannot to a kitten against it, no matter how good you are.

These topics always say the same thing. Nerf warrior mobility, the only classes that are allowed an escape option are thieves, mesmers and elementalists.

Now, of those three, thieves obviously have the best escape ability of them all (WAY better then warrior to begin with, but nvm that), so nerf them next, both the mobility and the stealth.

After that, pick one who has the best. I’d say mesmer, because stealth with decent positioning can escape pretty much everything (not to mention teleports). So nerf that.

Now the elementalist has superior mobility and thus escape capabilities. Nerf it.

Sweet, now we can all join the zerg train.

Then you see a warrior with a hammer and bow and run him down. Gs has mobility but you have to set up its damage. Swords damage is pretty weak except final thrust. When I see a warrior running sword and gs I think troll run away build.

I barely see GS/ S/Sh or hambow warriors in WvW. The majority run GS/A/Sh or GS/H or LB/GS or SS and if not switch to bow in zergs. The mobility is very easily seen but its more annoying than anything else. Most wars just run away to reset a fight and are able to catch up when they’re healed. All you can do for now is /laugh and walk away from the fight, literally walk away compared to their mobility ahha.

ITT People complain about a troll build that can do pretty much nothing else but troll.

Why do you not understand that if your opponent runs away you’ve effectively won the fight?

Just for the record: Warrior with Hammer immobilises you even in the underworld.
*Once you got it, you can’t do anything. *

/Ranger

RoyalPredator.9163:

I do agree. Their mobility is equal to Rangers & Thieves, who both are pinpointed “AGILITY” fighter. WvW should be about Scouts report, people support, some do special tasks, and warriors are kind of tanks who move slowly but they’re serious.
Slowing them down would make WWW feel mutch better at less rush.

It is time to make ALL classes needed for some kind of sieges. Just like in a BattleField game. Everyone is needed. If some messing from a fort wall, ask Rangers to neutralize them. Spotted the healers and commanders? Thieves will fulfill the contract.
Elementalists and Engineers are the two side of same coin, go ahead, let them do their job. Etc…

Their mobility is NOT equal to rangers. I have perma swiftness full GS/SA combo WITH reduced sword/gs cool downs and and can never, ever catch a mobility warrior that opts to flee from; this is with me properly utilizing all the leaps; sword 1 with no target, reverse sword 2 swap direction and forward with the second leap, swap and gs 3 swoop.. take it from me we can’t quite match that rate of movement warriors can bring to the table. We’re somewhat close and can indeed cover massive distances, but its a given a mobility warrior setup will always be ahead of us by that 800+ range or so and build that up more and more over time.

Any ranger with anything less than that setup won’t even cover half the distance these warriors put out.

Cygnus.6903:

These topics always say the same thing. Nerf warrior mobility, the only classes that are allowed an escape option are thieves, mesmers and elementalists.

Now, of those three, thieves obviously have the best escape ability of them all (WAY better then warrior to begin with, but nvm that), so nerf them next, both the mobility and the stealth.

After that, pick one who has the best. I’d say mesmer, because stealth with decent positioning can escape pretty much everything (not to mention teleports). So nerf that.

Now the elementalist has superior mobility and thus escape capabilities. Nerf it.

Sweet, now we can all join the zerg train.

dont forget rangers with evasion escapes. Sword + Dagger and lightning reflexes… all you’ll ever see is “evasion, evasion, evasion, evasion, evasion, evasion, evasion” and a target running away from you slowly but certainly.

I agree that warrior mobility is too high but requiring movement skills to have a target would destroy whats left of solo/small group roaming.

law.9410:

I agree that warrior mobility is too high but requiring movement skills to have a target would destroy whats left of solo/small group roaming.

Say that to a necro…
Necros have no movement skills and still can roam (though they are dead if they come into a bad engagement).

I don’t understand how warrior mobility is to high when it has always been the same since launch.

It wasn’t to high pre-buff, now it is to high? That is one of the main separations of guardians and warriors as heavies is mobility.

Where was the nerf warrior mobility bandwagon formed, when warriors didn’t have the hs, cleansing ire, dogged march? Let me guess it was ok cause they didn’t have sustain in fight so it was ok to force them to run away. Give them a little tap and they could speed racer all they want.

honestly I think the engineer has the best mobility :p perma swiftness a utility that gives double running speed and he’s got rocketboots. Also, engineer can spec for 1500 range making it possible to hit anybody on any pvp map in an average of 10 seconds.

This was no Troll Build as this warrior hit very Hard in WVW and I have seen other warriors that are this mobile that also hit this hard. The problem is the warrior is mobile to the point where they can get away when ever they want and then come back and pick people off. The problem is their mobility is to the point of being invulnerable, which is game breaking. Despite the fact that I have one of the most mobile conjured weapons up which also happens to be an elite they were able to easily catch catch.

I was not exactly hitting soft either as I hit for 1-2k on an auto attack easily and have 2.6k armor. They were also healing that off like no bodies business and hitting me every bit has hard as I was hitting them.

I honestly do not have issues with players running away, but something to this extent breaks WVW and the amount of ground they are able to cover was twice what I could have gotten with FGS with skills 2 and 3 respectively, as I did have a head start.

I am pretty indifferent about any other class mobility because it is not as game breakingly extreme as this.

I also want to mention that Perma-Swiftness is not even an issue has has nothing to do with what I am talking about. These are weapon skills I am talking about.

oZii.2864:

I don’t understand how warrior mobility is to high when it has always been the same since launch.

It wasn’t to high pre-buff, now it is to high? That is one of the main separations of guardians and warriors as heavies is mobility.

Where was the nerf warrior mobility bandwagon formed, when warriors didn’t have the hs, cleansing ire, dogged march? Let me guess it was ok cause they didn’t have sustain in fight so it was ok to force them to run away. Give them a little tap and they could speed racer all they want.

When one class has access to great mobility, damage, control and sustain, it does become an issue. And when you think of a warrior, it’s that crazy mobility that doesn’t really fit in. Some classes have 2 or 3 of those attributes down pat, but generally not all 4.

ATMAvatar.5749:

Requiring a target only addresses cases where a warrior is running away from you. The OP’s scenario was a warrior chasing him down. The problem is that warrior has too many mobility skills with relatively low cool-downs, particularly with a greatsword equipped.

This would make sense if the profession required melee range, but the ability to swap to several different ranged weapons eliminates much of the need for mobility.

I do not see the logic in taking gap closers away, or making them not close gaps.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

honestly I think the engineer has the best mobility :p perma swiftness a utility that gives double running speed and he’s got rocketboots. Also, engineer can spec for 1500 range making it possible to hit anybody on any pvp map in an average of 10 seconds.

It really isn’t a fair comparison to compare utility skills to weapon skills in my opinion. As well, you speak as if swiftness is a rarity in WvW. It is quit the opposite.

And what the heck does attack range have to do with an over abundance of movement weapons skills???

law.9410:

I agree that warrior mobility is too high but requiring movement skills to have a target would destroy whats left of solo/small group roaming.

Good.

Might actually force people to worry about movement and being spotted by the enemy when they can’t just cartwheel away from fights.

GS/SwWh is a troll build. It’s a 1 trick pony, Flurry (cancel) swap to GS 100B. If that doesn’t work you run away. Looks like they might have been former thieves.

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Sometimes I wish I Main’d a fun class that just gets to face-roll the keyboard and be good…

Freakin complicated Mesmers, no one ever gets fooled by my clones! :-[

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Heavy should mean slow then light should mean fast? So Ele, Mesmer, and everyones favorite necro should have the best mobility in the game? Ok

The problem with warriors is that their skills not only do much more base damage, but the cooldowns on their weapons are all stupidly low compared to other classes.

Its amazing that a skill with the damage of 100b can have a 6 sec cd, or Arcing Arrow and most burst skills hit that hard and yet have a low cd.

The hammer is just the same. No amount of stunbreaks will save you from a hammer warrior because of how often they can stunlocks relative to defenses against stunlocking.

A warrior with hammer+axe/mace has 3 CC’s in relatively short cooldowns, and the thing is if you try to dodge the hammer CC you are going to eat an eviscerate. It’s a complete lose/lose scenario.

Cygnus.6903:

These topics always say the same thing. Nerf warrior mobility, the only classes that are allowed an escape option are thieves, mesmers and elementalists.

Now, of those three, thieves obviously have the best escape ability of them all (WAY better then warrior to begin with, but nvm that), so nerf them next, both the mobility and the stealth.

After that, pick one who has the best. I’d say mesmer, because stealth with decent positioning can escape pretty much everything (not to mention teleports). So nerf that.

Now the elementalist has superior mobility and thus escape capabilities. Nerf it.

Sweet, now we can all join the zerg train.

The problem with your argument is you disregard all the other factors. A thief out of stealth is a dead thief The only other option they have is evasion and you only get so many dodges before the damage hits and kills you. Mesmers are pretty much in the same boat. A mesmer that isn’t constantly stealthing is a pretty easy kill. With the upcoming vigor trait nerf they will certainly be worse off. I haven’t really seen many ele’s anymore that really escape that well. Every once in awhile a Fiery greatsword one will get away but not nearly as consistently as warriors.

Now look at the warrior. They have great survivability right out of the gate, something none of the classes you mentioned have. They have high damage on top of that survivability. Then you put mobility on top of that. Yeah, it’s a bit overboard. When you’re rocking 3400 attack, 40% crit(60% with fury), 90% crit damage, 3200 defense, healing 400+hps, 95% reduction in cripple/chill/immobilize and you’re able to set landspeed records things need toned down.

Now look at the warrior.

HS is going to be nerfed.

minus condi duration is going to be nerfed with rune/sigil update. and by extension 95% reduction in cripple/chill/immobilize.

Critical damage is going to be nerfed, and by extension most of warrior burst skills including earthshaker which was previously nerfed.

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

By this logic all light armor classes should be only be able to take 1 hit from a greatsword/rifle/longbow/ you name it. Because silk cloth isn’t going to save you from that.

This is a GAME.

Harper.4173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

By this logic all light armor classes should be only be able to take 1 hit from a greatsword/rifle/longbow/ you name it. Because silk cloth isn’t going to save you from that.

This is a GAME.

Using gap closers for escape tools is still doesn’t look right and a warrior can choose them to not completely kitten themselves with it.

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Then that means light means fast.

So a football jock should run slower than a book nerd?

I agree that kind of light/heavy armor logic shouldn’t be used to determine mobility without taking into account all other factors, which are many. There is no denying though that with all the survivability and low immob/cond uptime on most war build used currently that mobility needs to be addressed. You can google Yishi’s more recent thief videos on youtube and see how ridiculous it was for him to catch up to a war as a thief. Its already ridiculous that a warrior is running away from a thief and at the same time doing a good job at it.

I personally don’t see any need to remove distance closers or force the need of selected targets. That would just promote more lame kite-and-spam easy win tactics on the hands of ranged classes as you could only aim for where the class(being mobile) WAS, and not intercept to where they will be in the second, and in the first there would be no counter to simply taking a ranged beating every time someone kites and spams ranged attacks, outside wielding one of your own which some classes simply don’t shine in the same way. Lack of distance closers is one of the things that gimps ranger melee pets, applying that to all classes would be tasteless. It would dumb down fight mechanics needlessly and eliminate much of the need of CC variants like immobilize, stun, cripple.

Also, I think it’s completely fair to have escape capability on any class if you have traits/weapon sets to specialize in form them and maintain a mobility setup. You can say its about constantly panning your camera watching for incoming all you want but being caught up in a serious fight, but personally I think players should be able to have some real escape ability if some 5 man or massive zerg comes training in out of nowhere bloodthirsty for an easy meal, EVEN IF they are already engaged with a camp or player. Being in combat reduces your speed so there is already risk, and out of combat groups can so easily rush in and start chucking their ranged immobilize that catching someone with the mobility of say, a ranger, generally isn’t that difficult if they have any level of competence. And even despite that, such mobility at least for us comes at a COST. You do have to make sacrifices to make it work, and specific gear sets/traits for it.

Therein lies the problem with warriors, they have mobility in their mobility setup drastically surpassing the level of what is necessary for a CHANCE of survival enough so to turn it into a near guarantee of absolute survival. So probably the mobility needs to be dulled down a bit for warriors is all. But not by that much. I feel where a mobility ranger with gs/s and reduced sword cool down is at.. would be a good place for the warrior with mobility to be at. I’m running a tank heavy build but can only have a chance at escaping if I react extremely quickly, and one well timed immobilize can easily shut things down. I still die in retreat plenty of times. If the distance covered by them was brought down to about that level, it’d be much more manageable. Not OP at all.

runeblade.7514:

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Then that means light means fast.

So a football jock should run slower than a book nerd?

That is a bit irrelevant and illogical since neither of those two are in GW2. If it is all the same to you, we prefer applicable sense and context. Linemen/running back might make sense, but Nerds can be linemen and linemen can be nerds. Analogies are great but blunt prejudgments tend to make poor analogies.

Light, medium, or heavy, makes no difference to me. What really bothers me, is that they have drifted miles away from their posted balancing philosophies that they pushed at as as canon, and I feel that is relevant here.

Detharos.3157:

I personally don’t see any need to remove distance closers

Then you agree they need the nerf then. Because no one is asking to remove distance closers as you call them. We are asking they stop allowing them to be exploited as escape tools, which they were not intended to be.

Warriors are supposed to be weak to conditions, particularly chill, immobilize, and cripple. with one trait they can ignore them with their gap closers to escape using gap closers as escapes, which by definition is exploitative.

coglin.1867:

runeblade.7514:

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Then that means light means fast.

So a football jock should run slower than a book nerd?

That is a bit irrelevant and illogical since neither of those two are in GW2. If it is all the same to you, we prefer applicable sense and context.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy

coglin.1867:

Then you agree they need the nerf then. Because no one is asking to remove distance closers as you call them. We are asking they stop allowing them to be exploited as escape tools, which they were intended to be.

Warriors are supposed to be weak to conditions, particularly chill, immobilize, and cripple. with one trait they can ignore them with their gap closers to escape using gap closers as escapes, which by definition is exploitative.

Where has it been stated that it’s suppose to be their weakness? I know I have seen a dev state that conditions are a intended part of mesmers weakness and that necromancers not having mobility is also intended. Never seen the one about warriors and cripple, chill, immobilize.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Game_mechanics (good reading in here to avoid people making things up)

Warrior greatsword skill

(Leap Skill) Rush – Charge and strike your foe

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gap_closer

A gap closer is a mechanic related to control and refers to any skill or effect that decreases the distance between the player and the target. Leaps, teleports, and shadow steps are skill mechanics that can be considered gap closers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kiting#Controlling_movement

Kiting allows your character to avoid damage dealt by the enemy while forcing them to chase you, allowing your allies to survive and deal damage and perform other combat roles much more freely.

Leap

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap

Snip – “Leap skills are used for positioning and thus control in battle.”
Snip – “leap skills can move the player out of the range of an attack similar to dodging”

Warrior leap skills
Rush
Bullscharge
Savage leap
Whirlwind
Shield Bash
Dash

Working as intended.

What’s the problem?

If a Warrior is running away from you and you can’t catch them, you’re not dead.
Not being able to catch them doesn’t really have any negative effect, just not a positive one either.

People used to complain about how thieves could reset fights, so when it comes to warrior don’t expect it to be any different.

oZii.2864:

coglin.1867:

Then you agree they need the nerf then. Because no one is asking to remove distance closers as you call them. We are asking they stop allowing them to be exploited as escape tools, which they were intended to be.

Warriors are supposed to be weak to conditions, particularly chill, immobilize, and cripple. with one trait they can ignore them with their gap closers to escape using gap closers as escapes, which by definition is exploitative.

Where has it been stated that it’s suppose to be their weakness?

Right here in the dev posted balance philosophies….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Warriors that set themselves up to be slippery are pretty much useless, except for their ability to grief other players by being slippery.

Lots of complaining about warriors on this thread, lol. Heal sig is slightly op, and is already going to get a nerf (although it will stay strong). Everything else about warriors is fine with the possible exception of some condi skills like pin down (also getting nerfed soon).

runeblade.7514:

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Then that means light means fast.

So a football jock should run slower than a book nerd?

In high school I was a book nerd and I could out run any of the foot ball jocks in a sprint. I was smaller, lighter and more agile. They could beat me in the long game but the sprint, not happening. They trained in foot ball while I read books and trained in Tae Kwon Do.

So yes, all things equal, the big heavy guy will loose to the little guy hands down. And this game is supposed to be no different, that is the idea of balance. Elementalists and thieves should have the highest mobility because of the low armor rating and the lowest hp base in the game while warriors should be the slowest with the highest health pool and armor rating in the game.

Personally I would address this issue by requiring a target for the warrior rush skills much like thief infiltrators strike works and decreasing the range the rush covers.

Jitae.3715:

runeblade.7514:

Sube Dai.8496:

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

Then that means light means fast.

So a football jock should run slower than a book nerd?

In high school I was a book nerd and I could out run any of the foot ball jocks in a sprint. I was smaller, lighter and more agile. They could beat me in the long game but the sprint, not happening. They trained in foot ball while I read books and trained in Tae Kwon Do.

So yes, all things equal, the big heavy guy will loose to the little guy hands down. And this game is supposed to be no different, that is the idea of balance. Elementalists and thieves should have the highest mobility because of the low armor rating and the lowest hp base in the game while warriors should be the slowest with the highest health pool and armor rating in the game.

Personally I would address this issue by requiring a target for the warrior rush skills much like thief infiltrators strike works and decreasing the range the rush covers.

You shouldn’t be able to stop bleeding unless you have a band-aid? Where is this thread even going omg.