Guild Wars 2

Immobilize is starting to get even more annoying. It’s extremely unskillful for players to be able to use all of their skills that apply immobilize on a target which can ultimately lead to the target’s death. I want immobilize to only apply to a target when they are not already under the effect of immobilize already.

Yeah, most people that I’ve seen post on here agree that immobilize stacking should never have been added. It’s the strongest control condition, yet it’s available in moderately high amounts, so I feel like it needs that limitation.

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

it is spamable and as a condition easily to cover and hard to removal this certain condition (only engi rocket shoes works ).and easily counter power spec build like power ele ,mesmer and thief.
And just like this any other cc build like hambow should be nerfed more . otherwise this game will need cc duration reduce mechanism?

Spammable? Define spammable ? What profession can spam it? You still have not defined and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

So your complaining because it counters something? I assume it counters your builds.

Why do CC builds need CC duration reduced? That makes no sense at all. So does stealth duration for thieves need reduces if they have a stealth focus build? Should clone skills cool down double because they spam clones? Should elementalist direct damage skills cool down be increased because they spam damage skills.

Sure seems mighty hypocritical to see posters support game play actions that they claim as “spam” or “skill less play” then support the same type of skills used repeatedly and spammed for skill less play on their preferred professions.

I would also like to know how one spams immobilize like one would spam an AA

Here I’ll help you out.

Thieves- have a spammable immobilize on thief pistol..
It also means they cant use any of their other skills to actually kill you with.

on the earth , comparing other cc skills in this game most classes have a short cd immobilize skill or trait to apply it .Also it takes 0 skill to stack and this game doesnt have monk support skills are still lacking ,so those 2 men stack then instantly kill should be nerfed . just ask most pvp players .
And many has all lv80 classes dont try to sound smart like this game skills are so complicated

Stackable CC is a terrible idea, full stop. The fact that avoidance measures are so unevenly distributed just makes it worse. Oh, and the lovely immobilise bug that you have to /dance to get out of.

“What class has an immobilize that is spammable?”

I already gave you one class that had one

Waiting on you to provide the rest of the spammable list.

If you arguement is “well two people can perma immobilize you”
Then the counter for that is two people can also kill you faster

I really hope that isn’t what you are trying to use as a counterpoint.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

I think it should be treated the same as the first four and differently from the last two.

Knockback, blowout, daze, and stun do not stack in duration, a new one applied overwrites the previous. I would liken immobilize to them more (as a sort of counterpart to daze, especially because it stops dodges) than to chill and cripple, despite immobilize being in the same category as the latter two.

May i also remind you folks that by now, most professions have one or several passive abilities in addition to one or several active abilities that will cleanse and or lessen the impact of immobilize by a fair amount.
In addition to this, Lemongrass + Melandru Runes will further reduce the impact of this condition by over 50%.
Most immobilize skills, bar Entangle on ranger (14 pulses, each applying 1sekittenil vines is destroyed) barely pin you down more then 3-4 seconds. Half of that is 1.5-2 seconds.
On the contrary, you can be stunned for over 6 seconds by certain professions, you can at most reduce it by 25% at any given moment. Most professions has one or two traits that will negate the effect ONCE every 30-90 seconds. And it requires you to take a precious stunbreaker skill which could otherwise be used for something else.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Knockback, blowout, daze, and stun do not stack in duration, a new one applied overwrites the previous. I would liken immobilize to them more (as a sort of counterpart to daze, especially because it stops dodges) than to chill and cripple, despite immobilize being in the same category as the latter two.

If I was knocked down, my body can receive a a blow out, and knock back consecutively, disallowing one to break out of the chain of stun until the enemies knock backs and blow outs are exhausted. Such as a group of all hammer warriors and guardians.

dancingmonkey.4902:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Knockback, blowout, daze, and stun do not stack in duration, a new one applied overwrites the previous. I would liken immobilize to them more (as a sort of counterpart to daze, especially because it stops dodges) than to chill and cripple, despite immobilize being in the same category as the latter two.

If I was knocked down, my body can receive a a blow out, and knock back consecutively, disallowing one to break out of the chain of stun until the enemies knock backs and blow outs are exhausted. Such as a group of all hammer warriors and guardians.

Yes, but they still don’t stack duration. The second interrupts the first, the third interrupts the second and so you don’t end up getting double mace-stunned and being there for a full 7.8 seconds. I would have immobilize work the same way as stuns, so that consecutive casts replace the previous (i.e. if you cast a one-second immobilize, and then a second one after half a second, you get a total of 1.5 seconds of immobilize, instead of the current two).

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Yes, but they still don’t stack duration. The second interrupts the first, the third interrupts the second and so you don’t end up getting double mace-stunned and being there for a full 7.8 seconds. I would have immobilize work the same way as stuns, so that consecutive casts replace the previous (i.e. if you cast a one-second immobilize, and then a second one after half a second, you get a total of 1.5 seconds of immobilize, instead of the current two).

Got ya. And personally, I am okay if immobilize functions in the same manner.

the drawback by doing it that way, is that for immobilize to matter, all immob skills must have their durations raised to a minimum of 3-4 seconds. Not just 1-2 as VERY many does right now.

And with 3-4 as base, you will see condi duration builds able to pump out over 30 seconds immobs. Worst of them all being ranger, as its elite would have to be buffed considerably to make it work.

Immobilize is fine itself. However if you dodge roll while immobilized you got perma immobilized forever, this bug exist since day 1 and 233,555,234,565,344 ppl has reported it, but Anet just simply ignore it.

I am all for immobilize not stacking. That way when you clear the immobilize, you burnt your skill and I can just use one, every other skill. Who wants to burn there break out of immobilize after most of them are spent and stacked right?

Guess what. Before it was stack able. The forums were flooded with threads demanding it was stack able so they could all be broke at once.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

If i lose to it, then yes it’s unskillful
/s

BobbyT.7192:

If i lose to it, then yes it’s unskillful
/s

Indeed this appear to be the case across the forums as a whole. The best part is how posters state there opinion as fact, then use there previously posted opinion to support their later post on the subject.

Immobilize is the bane of an eles existence, along with chill. I would not complain if immobilize was unstackable again. :p

Cecilia.5179:

Immobilize is the bane of an eles existence, along with chill. I would not complain if immobilize was unstackable again. :p

last time it was it’s own separate entity, and was harder if not impossible to remove immobilize

Now it stacks from multiple sources..
and can be removed
altogether..

But the only way this is a problem is when it’s you vs multiple people..
Which is a horrible debate in the first place because 1 v X is a horrible perspective for balancing decisions?

Solori.6025:

Cecilia.5179:

Immobilize is the bane of an eles existence, along with chill. I would not complain if immobilize was unstackable again. :p

last time it was it’s own separate entity, and was harder if not impossible to remove immobilize

Now it stacks from multiple sources..
and can be removed
altogether..

But the only way this is a problem is when it’s you vs multiple people..
Which is a horrible debate in the first place because 1 v X is a horrible perspective for balancing decisions?

Exactly. At that time, there were complaints of posters demanding it should stack, so they could clear them all at once. Which set of complaints should Anet listen too?

This discussions surmounts to;
Immob is annoying – Bring condi cleanse
Immob is stacking – learn your enemy, learn their number of immob sources and cleanse WHEN their exhausted
Immob can be “covered” by other conditions – bring more/full wipe cleanses
Immob can immob immob stack stack Q_Q_Q_Q – no remedy for that one.

As others have mentioned, doesn’t Immob Stacking only really apply when you’re getting trained? If you’re getting trained with no support, aren’t you going to basically die shortly anyway?

I don’t think they can functionally make Immob like the rest of the CCs, since it runs by Condition rules. At best, they can probably limit the # of Immobs that can stack sequentially before stopping any additional contribution. Limiting that to 1 would then require more coordination to chain them, but I don’t think in those situations where it is getting chained it would really help people survive any better. They would just die for some other reason, like being Crippled/Chilled.

Rangers stacks immob so fast, so easily that you get screwed by it.

Entangle = 14x 1 second. 1 sec immob/pulse/second
Muddy terrain (on creation) – 3 seconds
Krytan Drakehound F2 Howl – 3 seconds
Spider (AI skill) – 3 seconds
Spider (F2 skill) – 3 seconds

then there is thief;
Devourer Venom – 2x 2 seconds (3x if traited)

Cogbyrn.7283:

As others have mentioned, doesn’t Immob Stacking only really apply when you’re getting trained? If you’re getting trained with no support, aren’t you going to basically die shortly anyway?

We al no that is something kills you, the proper thing to do is to go on the forums and DEMAND it is OP and requires a nerf. By forums QQ protocol, Even it that thing that killed you is a 5 man group or a zerg, by forums QQ protocol, it required a nerf.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers stacks immob so fast, so easily that you get screwed by it.

Entangle = 14x 1 second. 1 sec immob/pulse/second
Muddy terrain (on creation) – 3 seconds
Krytan Drakehound F2 Howl – 3 seconds
Spider (AI skill) – 3 seconds
Spider (F2 skill) – 3 seconds

then there is thief;
Devourer Venom – 2x 2 seconds (3x if traited)

I’ve never seen a Ranger do much more than use Entangling Roots, so there’s either a reason for it (those pets being terrible/counterable, the related skills being on weapons/utilities that aren’t very good, etc.), or I’ve discovered yet another thing I never see Rangers do in the midst of all the complaints about how kitten the class is.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers stacks immob so fast, so easily that you get screwed by it.

Entangle = 14x 1 second. 1 sec immob/pulse/second
Muddy terrain (on creation) – 3 seconds
Krytan Drakehound F2 Howl – 3 seconds
Spider (AI skill) – 3 seconds
Spider (F2 skill) – 3 seconds

then there is thief;
Devourer Venom – 2x 2 seconds (3x if traited)

So we have the ranger elite-150sec
A jungle spider pet f2-40sec
A Hound f2-20 sec

and muddy terrain-25sec

All of those are spammable?

On the thief?
Why would you take a Devourer venom ( on a 45sec CD) over another-more useful utility.

Unless you plan on running in a group to share venom.
Then the argument is still 1 v X
And you would need to explain why you feel your class needs to have an advantage/ be privileged to win 1 v X

Solori.6025:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers stacks immob so fast, so easily that you get screwed by it.

Entangle = 14x 1 second. 1 sec immob/pulse/second
Muddy terrain (on creation) – 3 seconds
Krytan Drakehound F2 Howl – 3 seconds
Spider (AI skill) – 3 seconds
Spider (F2 skill) – 3 seconds

then there is thief;
Devourer Venom – 2x 2 seconds (3x if traited)

So we have the ranger elite-150sec
A jungle spider pet f2-40sec
A Hound f2-20 sec

and muddy terrain-25sec

All of those are spammable?

On the thief?
Why would you take a Devourer venom ( on a 45sec CD) over another-more useful utility.

Unless you plan on running in a group to share venom.
Then the argument is still 1 v X
And you would need to explain why you feel your class needs to have an advantage/ be privileged to win 1 v X

we are not talking you should take advantage in 1vx situation we are talking there should be more response rooms to actually counterplay more than just who acts first who wins .You can just add a skill that 2 players could press that button same time and their enemy dies .If you feel that’s enjoyable then good for you .Its all deponds on how often and how easy that kill button can be used .Right now ,Its too easy to use (lets be honest its even easy than using moa actually hit target).
If this game support skills are not that lacking then it might be far less issue .So anet could do many changes to balance this but for now just making it unstackable is easy way to do .

also this can happen when just 3v3 or even 5v5 . Focus on necros , stack stun stack immobilize if he does a lucky dodge your group memeber will die first and you lose.
On the other hand if you are real coordination team then limit it to one stack that shouldn’t be a problem with your coordination .
This game right now is so spamming ,either anet takes much more effort to rework a lot of stuff or simply limit those ability .Everyone would suggest easy way because they can hope that happens.

Explain how the game is specifically “so spamming” ?

In the game you are always hitting one button or another for various actions or movement.

I hear this “spamming” accusation consistently, yet have failed to see anyone explain it or define it. Folks appear to simply think regurgitating what everyone else is regurgitating in other threads.

musu.9205:

also this can happen when just 3v3 or even 5v5 . Focus on necros , stack stun stack immobilize if he does a lucky dodge your group memeber will die first and you lose.
On the other hand if you are real coordination team then limit it to one stack that shouldn’t be a problem with your coordination .
This game right now is so spamming ,either anet takes much more effort to rework a lot of stuff or simply limit those ability .Everyone would suggest easy way because they can hope that happens.

Stack all of your immob at once on a Necro, and there’s a really good chance one of you will just eat it right back in your face.

musu.9205:

also this can happen when just 3v3 or even 5v5 . Focus on necros , stack stun stack immobilize if he does a lucky dodge your group memeber will die first and you lose.
On the other hand if you are real coordination team then limit it to one stack that shouldn’t be a problem with your coordination .
This game right now is so spamming ,either anet takes much more effort to rework a lot of stuff or simply limit those ability .Everyone would suggest easy way because they can hope that happens.

Wait, so is your problem with coordinated group play?

I mean, if you dont like being focused roll a thief and run away in stealth.

On that same note

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Can you answer how that is different from people focusing you with other stun skills or other CC skills or chill and cripple?

If you get focused you die.
Now if you want to change the nature of that then please target the entire damage mechanic because that seems to me what you have a problem with.

You have done nothing to explain why and how immobilize is “spamming”
You have done nothing to explain or refute why immobilize is worse than any of the other skills above
and now you need to explain why it’s bad for a group to coordinate and burst a target and why skills like chill, daze,knockback, cripple, knockdown, and stun are sooooo much better than immobilize, and why immobilize needs to be nerfed because all of those skill’s wont guarantee you die vs focus fire apparently.

The “spamming” accusation probably comes from the fact that many of these immobilizes are passive and often unintentional. You can be held in place for 5+ seconds just from a Supply Crate turret and a Ranger’s unattended pet, for example. Throw in more pseudo-AoEs like Guardian and Warrior (traited) hammer and it just becomes a mess.

I wouldn’t like to see these skills themselves be changed, the Ranger pet’s immobilize is its thing and it shouldn’t be taken away. What has to go is either immobilize-stacking (which rewards poor timing) or a change in cleanse priority. It was already a powerful condition anyway and it didn’t need the extra help.

shimmerless.4560:

The “spamming” accusation probably comes from the fact that many of these immobilizes are passive and often unintentional. You can be held in place for 5+ seconds just from a Supply Crate turret

Supply crate is an elite-
Are you saying that the now nerfed net turrent is still to strong?
Or that the rifle net is too fast to dodge?

and a Ranger’s unattended pet, for example.

The ranger’s pet will only ever get a 5+ second immobilize if you time muddy terrain, it’s A2 attack, AND its F2 attack at pretty much the same time..Or the ranger will use an Elite skill
Now let’s say the ranger doesnt use an elite skill. If a ranger has that much micro management skill and spacial awareness are you saying that it he shouldn’t be rewarded for it.

I would also ask * What happened to your condi cleanse*

Throw in more pseudo-AoEs like Guardian and Warrior (traited) hammer and it just becomes a mess.

Are we talking again 1 v X or focus firing, because this still leads to the arguement of
A) why should you be privaleged to live through focus fire
B) What other condition or CC that limits your mobility wouldn’t do this, and why is immobilize sooo much worse.

You could say that the immobilization in a group is much more frequent but that would be false.
Especially when cripple and chill/ Daze and stun are available in MANY more forms.

I wouldn’t like to see these skills themselves be changed, the Ranger pet’s immobilize is its thing and it shouldn’t be taken away. What has to go is either immobilize-stacking (which rewards poor timing) or a change in cleanse priority. It was already a powerful condition anyway and it didn’t need the extra help.

So the immobilize should go before the cripple and chill?

Sure.
Tell me how much further you get from the group that is chasing you and bursting you down

ok, so shimmer. explain how to deal with this then;

1 ranger has 4 sources of AOE immob, 2 sources of single target immob. ON ONE BUILD.
With 70% condition duration, 1 ranger can apply over 50 seconds of immob by fast stacking, or almost 2 minutes if they just slowly let the immob wear off (cuz of cooldown reset).
This again means that ONE ranger, can tie down a larger group of players. ALONE.

While skills still stack, the other team merely need to wait for the ranger to exhaust its immob, then cleanse, or wait for the ranger to get close enough for them to cleanse and charge into the ranger before it can have a chance to reapply. This is how it works today.
You time your CC and position yourself to take advantage of it.

with the suggested change to make immob NOT stack. for it to be a valid threat to ANY enemy (since -condi duration would still be untouched as it is crucial to defending against other condies, not to mention many professions have traits to reduce CC in particular, including condi) the base condition duration would have to be increased on ALL skills. While cooldowns couldnt be changed much by the fact that it would make the skills worthless.

What you end up with is that either two scenarios happens;
1 – you will get locked in place, since the ranger would easily reapply immob until all your cleanses were gone, and by then, the ranger would still have more immob avaliable. You are thus DOOMED. Because having 6 sources, of which 4 have cooldowns of 20 seconds or less, is self explanatory as “OP” in a non-stack- quick-reapply enviroment.

2 – professions lacking the stacking ability of rangers would stack cripple + chill. Now you got TWO conditions to defend against, that together reduce movement speed by over 100% (i think 90% is the max negative value for movement though). Your CD’s will be increased. And to top it off, some professions can also apply weakness by the buckets (ranger, thief, necro – that i know of). Adding even more issues, as you will be out of dodges real fast.

Scenario 1 is equally problematic as scenario 2. However at the core of this is one common issue – Any change to the current system would make the games most hated profession into the most OP CC stacker ever (it already is, but noone acknowledges it).

Todays system offer more “leeway” and less chance of “locking” by simply giving the “victim” a choice. That choice is a form of skill. It is called TIMING.
When can i cleanse? how many more skills do he have? How many cleanses do i have? Can i simply facetank this?

Another monumentally important thing about immob is – IT DOES NOT STOP YOU FROM DODGING. Sure you are bound to 1 pixel, but you can still dodge attacks, as pressing shift (or whatever button you have your dodge on) will still grant you “evasion”.
You can still attack from immob. Thus skills like Sanctuary, Ring of Warding, Stomp, Banish, Fear marks, Feedback, any form of pbAOE condition skill will ward off attackers. They can move in closer, but you can still hurt them.

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

The only immobolize I have issues with is warriors. Against them unless you’re also a warrior, you aren’t getting out of their immobolize spam.

Immobilize has some counters.

Condition reduction food in WvW along with a handful of traits(i.e. Dogged March, Leg Mods).

Removal via gap closer in the case of Mobile Strikes, Lightning Reflexes, Rocket Boots, etc.

Complete condition clears or immunity(Berserker’s Stance, Signet of Stanima, Elixir C, Lyssa’s runes(still viable))

It’s an annoying condition, no doubt, but it can be countered.

K U T M.4539:

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

you forgot mesmer, guardian,and necro.

You still havent provided me with a list of “spammable” immobilizes outside of what I provided with the thief.

Do you know what spammable means in the gaming world?

Naming classes that have access to an immobilize isn’t helping your case
Secondly
If a group of people chain immobilize you every one of their immobilizes can be removed with 1 condition clear vs if I am chained stunned unless I am one of the two classes that has easy access to stability, I am chained there unable to defend myself at all.
Can we use this argument for immobilize sure..difference being
When I am immobilized I can still dodge, evade, or use skills that give me the effects of to mitigate the damage I am receiving and letting me live those 5 seconds longer.

Also you haven’t addressed why chill and cripple are not any worse than immobilize

K U T M.4539:

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

You sir, do not comprehend the definition of spamable then.

Please link the immobilize spam build for each of those professions.

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

you forgot mesmer, guardian,and necro.

You still havent provided me with a list of “spammable” immobilizes outside of what I provided with the thief.

Do you know what spammable means in the gaming world?

Naming classes that have access to an immobilize isn’t helping your case
Secondly
If a group of people chain immobilize you every one of their immobilizes can be removed with 1 condition clear vs if I am chained stunned unless I am one of the two classes that has easy access to stability, I am chained there unable to defend myself at all.
Can we use this argument for immobilize sure..difference being
When I am immobilized I can still dodge, evade, or use skills that give me the effects of to mitigate the damage I am receiving and letting me live those 5 seconds longer.

Also you haven’t addressed why chill and cripple are not any worse than immobilize

It is incredibly unlikely that you’ll remove an immob stack with just one clear, because (for whatever reason) it’s always the last thing removed. When you are constantly burning, bleeding, weakened and poisoned from the miasma of conditions thrown around it isn’t simple to just hone on one thing to cleanse away.

If I had to take a guess as to why on earth immobilize is last, it’s probably to balance things like the Guardian passive cleanse. Of course the best option would just be to change immobilize to only come last on passives, but that’s GW2 for you.

Why would it be unlikely to be removed when every profession has at least one if not two skills that have a 100% chance to remove cripple+chill+immobilize. Beyond that, several traits offer the same removal added to skills you already use.

shimmerless.4560:

If I had to take a guess as to why on earth immobilize is last, it’s probably to balance things like the Guardian passive cleanse. Of course the best option would just be to change immobilize to only come last on passives, but that’s GW2 for you.

No guessing about it. The community spammed the forums with as many threads as there are stealth/thief hate threads now, demanding that general cleanses remove damaging conditions first. It was a massive community out cry that caused this.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Why would it be unlikely to be removed when every profession has at least one if not two skills that have a 100% chance to remove cripple+chill+immobilize. Beyond that, several traits offer the same removal added to skills you already use.

There’s only four classes that have guaranteed immobilize clears, and two of them are tied to specific weapons. It’s the same with chill and cripple. To say every profession has these is completely wrong, these skills are not common by any stretch.

So what professions are you suggesting do not have capability to break immobilize? I am not suggesting your wrong or not. I am simply asking what professions you feel it is an issue. Because many posters suggest immobilization as a whole is a problem on all professions is anecdotal. Yet you didn’t argue that. Once I make the opposing anecdotal claim, you do. Seems a bit biased. But any way, lets look at this per profession and not as a whole for the specific condition.

dancingmonkey.4902:

K U T M.4539:

Spammable immobs:

Thief, ele, ranger, warrior, engineer.

The difference between those stun chains and the immob stacking is that they had to wait until the other persons cc was over to get the maximum effect. With immob stacking, you don’t have to wait.

You sir, do not comprehend the definition of spamable then.

Please link the immobilize spam build for each of those professions.

I don’t know about ranger (though I hear they can stack some pretty mean immobs), warrior, or engineer, but I assume that the immobilize spam from an ele would be elemental surge arcane retribution +arcane power, possibly with some other arcane spells. With zero condi duration it would be possible to get upwards of continuous immobilization if you timed your arcane powerretribution correctly. With 40% duration (just food) you could have seven seconds of immobilization from a single utility skill (though you would need to get some five hits in while in earth attunement).

You don’t see this because arcane retribution is a passive % health proc, which are hard to use on eles, and switching evasive arcana for elemental surge sacrifices so much survivability, not to mention that earth on the whole is…
Wait a sec, stone heart. BRB I’m going to go try something.
This might be funny.

Immobilise stacking is pretty broken. It’s hilarious just how long you can root people now with very little effort. As a Mesmer I like to partner up with a Warrior for maximum immobilise hilarity. If they don’t have a specific immobilise removal skill, then it’s pretty much a death sentence as all you have to do is dump a few covering conditions. Necros in particular are great targets for this as Consume Conditions is very easy to interrupt. Rangers and Mesmers are also easy to to perma-root.

I used to find immobilise stacking unpalatable but I have now learnt to embrace the cheese and am personally looking forward to Daze stacking

Also, since when has every class had the ability to specifically remove immobilise? One only has to spend a few moments perusing the wiki or exploring their alts to see that this is limited to just 4 classes.

Nope, elemental surge is as meh as ever, mostly because arcane power uses up multiple charges for spells that hit multiple people or even pets, so one AoE uses up everything.
It was pretty funny to watch people just be unable to kill me while I froze them in place repeatedly, though. I even took earth shield and tornado for maximum troll.