Guild Wars 2

I just bumped a thread from April of 2013 in Necro forums, but see this as a better place to put the topic.

Dear ArenaNet, for the good of ALL Necromancers… Some of us would love to play non-condition builds in a melee setting, but you have made Necromancers the ONLY CLASS WITHOUT A CLEAVE! Even if it is just 3 targets, please make our Axe or Dagger a cleave attack. Or allow Necros a New Weapon… Maybe Scythe’s a new melee weapon for Necro.

We’d need a new weapon, or Axe would need a mini-rework (which wouldn’t necessarily be bad, since the weapon is overall subpar, and only used when absolutely necessary).

Cleaving wouldn’t make Necromancers any more useful against bosses. I don’t think that is the issue…

Kain Francois.4328:

Cleaving wouldn’t make Necromancers any more useful against bosses. I don’t think that is the issue…

It’s an issue. Power builds are desired for bosses, and necros do pretty high single-target damage in Power builds. However, much of the dungeon is trash mobs where cleave is necessary. Necros lack that on Power builds.

Necro condition builds, on the other hand, will destroy trash mobs, but struggle against bosses.

Cleave would be really nice for trash mobs, especially if the cleave was attached to a weapon set that gave us some tankiness/utility that would allow us to fill a bunker role in PvP (which SHOULD be something we can do, according to our profession balance ideal).

If not cleave, then at least some weapon-based AoE burst to blow through trash mobs more than once every 40s.

Bhawb.7408:

Cleave would be really nice for trash mobs, especially if the cleave was attached to a weapon set that gave us some tankiness/utility that would allow us to fill a bunker role in PvP (which SHOULD be something we can do, according to our profession balance ideal).

If not cleave, then at least some weapon-based AoE burst to blow through trash mobs more than once every 40s.

i’m still holding out on greatsword. though we get almost no attention from feature patches.

Give Necros a greatsword.

Greatsword attack animation is the hammer animation.

Swinging causes the greatword to be engulfed by dark flames and produce a scythe visage like when using Staff.

Now if a necro could make up some skills.

Zacchary.6183:

Now if a necro could make up some skills.

How many skillsets you want? Because literally dozens have been put on the Necro forums over the months.

Bhawb.7408:

Zacchary.6183:

Now if a necro could make up some skills.

How many skillsets you want? Because literally dozens have been put on the Necro forums over the months.

Lol he’s right go over to necro forums and take.a look

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s an issue. Power builds are desired for bosses, and necros do pretty high single-target damage in Power builds. However, much of the dungeon is trash mobs where cleave is necessary. Necros lack that on Power builds.

Necro condition builds, on the other hand, will destroy trash mobs, but struggle against bosses.

Got to agree. I really enjoy my power Necromancers but rarely play her because of the lack of cleave. I don’t think introducing a new weapon is needed, though. Adding a cleave to the dagger might be too much damage and lifeforce gain. But they could turn the axe AA into something like the staff AA of Guardians with a slightly shorter range. Against bosses dagger would still be the best choice while axe could be used against trash mobs.

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

In the ready up, they said clearly sustained power aoe is not something they want to give necros…
So unless they change their mind, we will never see cleave on necros.

Though i personlly dont like it, given that every other profession has some sort of sustain aoe power damage.

But if they ever have a change of mind, the best would probably give Axe autoattack some sort of aoe (like a cone attack).

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

Xaylin.1860:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s an issue. Power builds are desired for bosses, and necros do pretty high single-target damage in Power builds. However, much of the dungeon is trash mobs where cleave is necessary. Necros lack that on Power builds.

Necro condition builds, on the other hand, will destroy trash mobs, but struggle against bosses.

Got to agree. I really enjoy my power Necromancers but rarely play her because of the lack of cleave. I don’t think introducing a new weapon is needed, though. Adding a cleave to the dagger might be too much damage and lifeforce gain. But they could turn the axe AA into something like the staff AA of Guardians with a slightly shorter range. Against bosses dagger would still be the best choice while axe could be used against trash mobs.

if they did that with axe they would have to buff the damage. yay for that because i’m close to frostfang, but we need melee cleave too.

Lightsbane.9012:

if they did that with axe they would have to buff the damage. yay for that because i’m close to frostfang, but we need melee cleave too.

Why would they have to buff the damage?

As someone else said, they don’t want them to have too much sustained area damage and such an attack would certainly provide some. Therefore, the damage can’t be that high. However, having no cleave at all just kicks Necros out of every PvE group.

Bhawb.7408:

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

One of the best auto attacks in the game. But not really one of the best dps weapons in the game. WTB burst skill on dagger 2. :P

Necro with hammer FTW

I’d give Staff a 2nd “spec” make it so you can choose condition/ranged staff or power/melee staff

Melee staff

#1(chain): swing your weapon dealing X damage and aply vuln – swing a 2nd time dealing 1.5X damage – your weapon turns into a schyte dealing a masive blow deals 2X damage and aplies 3 stacks of vuln

1. your weapon turns into a long schyte grabbing your target and dragging it to you does more damage the further you are from your target. range: 900(may be too much? needs CD)

1. executioner, deals massive damage under 25%, does high damage under 50%, low damage for higher health (needs CD) if this skill deals a killing blow there is no CD

1. AoE channel, your weapon turns into a schyte and you spin dealing X damage per second (needs CD)

1. on use, you gain 3 stacks of might (5 sec) and fury for every foe under 50% hp on a 600 radius area around you (needs CD)

Bhawb.7408:

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

no, no with an extra helping of NO.
compare it to warrior greatsword damage for example,
the warrior will deal a hell of a lot more damage and his attacks cleave.

spoj.9672:

WTB burst skill on dagger 2. :P

Like axe 2? :P

Honestly, I don’t mind dagger as an overall weapon, its just not designed with PvE in mind. I love it on my minion builds where I can get stuck into combat and get all the sustain it gives.

We just need a weapon that specifically alleviates our PvE (at least weapon-based) issues. Something with cleave, something that let us debuff meaningfully (weakness, vulnerability at least), and has at least a bit of LF generation. If it also had something like an Aura for utility on the 4/5 or something that’d be awesome too. I think they actually need to sit down and say “why aren’t people taking Necromancers much in PvE, and what weapon can we make to fix some of that” (since I don’t think they can fix our utility issues fully on a weapon).

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

WTB burst skill on dagger 2. :P

Like axe 2? :P

Honestly, I don’t mind dagger as an overall weapon, its just not designed with PvE in mind. I love it on my minion builds where I can get stuck into combat and get all the sustain it gives.

We just need a weapon that specifically alleviates our PvE (at least weapon-based) issues. Something with cleave, something that let us debuff meaningfully (weakness, vulnerability at least), and has at least a bit of LF generation. If it also had something like an Aura for utility on the 4/5 or something that’d be awesome too. I think they actually need to sit down and say “why aren’t people taking Necromancers much in PvE, and what weapon can we make to fix some of that” (since I don’t think they can fix our utility issues fully on a weapon).

I think giving axe aa some sort of aoe (i would like some sort of cone that slices up to 3 enemies in the cone) would be the best solution, since the weapons is at the moment lackluster. Some sort of aoe vulnerability stacking is what also fit necromancer and the aa damage is bad to begin with. Though sadly they said they dont want to give necro sustain power aoe and unless they change their opinion, which they should regarding this in my opinion, it will not happen.

Liewec.2896:

Bhawb.7408:

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

no, no with an extra helping of NO.
compare it to warrior greatsword damage for example,
the warrior will deal a hell of a lot more damage and his attacks cleave.

Per-hit, true, but necro dagger attacks so much faster that it does have the superior DPS.

Xaylin.1860:

Lightsbane.9012:

if they did that with axe they would have to buff the damage. yay for that because i’m close to frostfang, but we need melee cleave too.

Why would they have to buff the damage?

As someone else said, they don’t want them to have too much sustained area damage and such an attack would certainly provide some. Therefore, the damage can’t be that high. However, having no cleave at all just kicks Necros out of every PvE group.

melee=higher risk therefore higher reward. proof: necro dagger chain. i wouldn’t mind axe being reworked to about 300 range but it sure as kitten better get a damage increase.
with all its flaws, it remains my favorite weapon to use on a necromancer. and holy kitten does it have flaws.

Thought this up a while back:

Torch as a mainhand weapon.
1- Stygian Flames: Send out a wave of chilling flames to slow your foes. Applies chill. Cleave. Chill duration increases for # of enemies hit, but increases CD. LF gained= 10% per wave, subtract 1% (up to a max of 5) for each enemy hit. Base CD= I dunno. CD modifier= I dunno.

2- Death’s Embrace: Small range AoE pull. Applies 7(?)secs of protection. CD= I dunno.

3- Vanishing Flame: Teleport backwards, leaving an AoE that burns foes. If they are chilled, the chill is detonated dealing (???) damage, and increasing burn duration. CD= I dunno.

Officially, the Necro cleaving weapon is the staff. It’s AA is power-based, it has line-AE on the AA and ranged-AE on all other attacks.

(not saying I think it’s good, but I bet it’s the intended weapon for the situation)

Staff is a support pierce weapon. Pierce =/= cleave. Its also really weak. Id be ok with it if it had similar damage to eles staff, but they wont do that.

Easy fix would be to change the life-blast piercing trait to make it cause a damaging aoe on hit instead.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Per-hit, true, but necro dagger attacks so much faster that it does have the superior DPS.

i have never seen a dagger necro deal anywhere near the damage that a warrior can do with greatsword and i play both, power necro is one of my favourite characters.
just an example

roamzero.9486:

Easy fix would be to change the life-blast piercing trait to make it cause a damaging aoe on hit instead.

For bonus points (because this’d fit the animation better) make the Life Blast pierce by default, and the trait adds an AE at your hand (from the energy forming) to it.

Liewec.2896:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Per-hit, true, but necro dagger attacks so much faster that it does have the superior DPS.

i have never seen a dagger necro deal anywhere near the damage that a warrior can do with greatsword and i play both, power necro is one of my favourite characters.
just an example

i am not cool enough to have recording software. But that vid sparked an interesting debate.

in as much as i took my own Berserker/Scholar Necromancer and beat the time.

regardless. the debate can go back and forth in more ways than i care to admit too.

Fully buffed. 25 might/vuln and fury a Necromancer will out DPS a Warrior.
the catch.
Necromancer Cannot do this on their own. it requires a group.

random segway… I wonder if there is a potential for Necromancers to use strength runes or even Aristocracy runes to beef up their personal damage….

Aristocracy condi necro is pretty op for solo.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Aristocracy condi necro is pretty op for solo.

I thought so… Did you guys get better numbers to compare to vs the Undead runes?

Rabid or Rampager?

Slotting Blood is Power and a sigil of strength?

Would the numbers of a Rampager/aristocracy Necromancer be able to fit into an organized Dungeon group? or would it still be a Berserker/Scholar

Or in the grand scheme of it all are we still out of luck due to the original topic of thread, and we just simply dont have the group utility Etc.

Condi doesnt work in groups as things die way too fast. Rampager d/d may work ok in groups but not tried it.

For solo you want BiP, signets and sigil of battle with arist runes. Can get between 9-25 sustained might. Can probably maintain about 15+ might with coordinated signet usage. And even more if you dont need energy sigil so you can take strength aswell.

I still want a scythe. A pure power based weapon with cleave, possibly with some sort of leap skill on it.

Nikkinella.8254:

I still want a scythe. A pure power based weapon with cleave, possibly with some sort of leap skill on it.

isn’t that funny? if we got a leap it’d probably solve so many of our problems.

Lightsbane.9012:

Nikkinella.8254:

I still want a scythe. A pure power based weapon with cleave, possibly with some sort of leap skill on it.

isn’t that funny? if we got a leap it’d probably solve so many of our problems.

Heaven forbid necros get a bit of in combat mobility..

Just add Hammer as a weapon. Imagine a skill: Unleash souls. You slam your hammer intot he ground unleasing souls. Each one damages your enemy like an Ice Storm.

I vote 2h sword. Would be nice to have a 2h option and I don’t wanna see anymore 2h hammers anymore lol.

Oh its nice to pretend things

I’d love to see Necro (among others) get a two-handed axe with cleave. The model and animation is there (executioner’s outfit toy axe) to build upon.

If I can’t have two-handed axe, then any cleaving weapon is acceptable right now. I just want to cleave!

jportell.2197:

Lightsbane.9012:

Nikkinella.8254:

I still want a scythe. A pure power based weapon with cleave, possibly with some sort of leap skill on it.

isn’t that funny? if we got a leap it’d probably solve so many of our problems.

Heaven forbid necros get a bit of in combat mobility..

i see what you did there, since y’know, necro powers draw from the underworld.

nerco greatsword could be one, Trahearne uses one…however he sucks.

Cleaving is not the only thing necros lack, they also lack easy of use blast finisher and no combo fields that people judge useful, like water and fire fields.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Liewec.2896:

Bhawb.7408:

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

no, no with an extra helping of NO.
compare it to warrior greatsword damage for example,
the warrior will deal a hell of a lot more damage and his attacks cleave.

Per-hit, true, but necro dagger attacks so much faster that it does have the superior DPS.

Greatsword is bad at auto-attack. Better compare necro dagger with warrior axe.

Else i would also like some way to simply transform our staff into a melee-scythe with cleave on auto-attack since we already have the visuals that makes a staff look a little like a scythe.