Hi,
It bother me that some class have a better access to torment than necro: warriors, thieves (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment).
Necro have to play with DS to access torment (#5). So Necro applies torment with “skill with special condition”.
What about changing Axe’s skill #1 weakness by torment (in AOE?). Axe skill #1 weakness isn’t that bad…but it does very low DPS and we have already plenty access to weakness (focus, utlitaries, etc..).
They also have better fear duration even if you traited no fear the stolen fear on thieves is what necro’s really wanted.. same goes for warrior fear me AoE unblockable and duration are better then the necro’s .. even if fully traited..
weird huh ? XD
‘Stolen fear’ should be the duration of the person it was stolen from or scale in duration, same goes for ‘Fear me’, scale on duration.
oh well..
guess we can give Dhuumfire to other professions now too
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Some classes have no access to torment or fear, or hardly any conditions at all. I honestly think the last thing this game needs is more conditions. If you are looking into the classes which have high uptime on burning, keep in mind they also have less options than your necro when looking into conditions that deal damage.
IMO necro doesn’t need more condition damage, how ever I would like to see the necro gain some mobility options.
Hi,
It bother me that some class have a better access to torment than necro: warriors, thieves (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment).
Necro have to play with DS to access torment (#5). So Necro applies torment with “skill with special condition”.
What about changing Axe’s skill #1 weakness by torment (in AOE?). Axe skill #1 weakness isn’t that bad…but it does very low DPS and we have already plenty access to weakness (focus, utlitaries, etc..).
Warriors have one skill that applies 5 stacks to a single target, I think. Mesmer I believe now has some good torment application, which I disagree with. I also disagree with warriors having access to every damaging condition (including poison if they use the doom sigil), but it’s warrior, so of course it will have them all. Necromancers can apply their torment in an AoE, take conditions from allies, send conditions from themselves to enemies, and spread conditions on a single target to multiple enemies. When it comes to manipulating conditions, necromancer still wins. I’ve never touched engineer so this post doesn’t consider them.
Not only that, many other classes have better access to Confusion than Mesmers. Overall, I think both Sigils and Runes are way too impactful for a build. But then I’d argue the same about stats themselves.
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What exactly makes you think necromancers are the special snowflakes that “deserve” more torment than other classes? That’s exactly like a warrior complaining he has no access to chill and poison.
You guys must broaden your horizons a bit. Necromancers are bad at torment… against a single target. In AoE, however, they are pretty good at it. You’ve got to remember that torment hits 5 targets with tainted shackles, and not just 1 like all other classes. If I were to breakdown the amount of torment ticks per recharge for all of the torment inflicting skills, it would look something like this:
Warrior: 4 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Necromancer: 3.75 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Mesmer: 3.33 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Thief: 2.5 seconds of torment per second of recharge for Shadow Strike, 0.33 seconds of torment per second of recharge for Skale Venom, but with venomous aura this becomes 2 seconds.
So the necro is second only to warrior in frequency of application.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
You guys must broaden your horizons a bit. Necromancers are bad at torment… against a single target. In AoE, however, they are pretty good at it. You’ve got to remember that torment hits 5 targets with tainted shackles, and not just 1 like all other classes. If I were to breakdown the amount of torment ticks per recharge for all of the torment inflicting skills, it would look something like this:
Warrior: 4 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Necromancer: 3.75 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Mesmer: 3.33 seconds of torment per second of recharge
Thief: 2.5 seconds of torment per second of recharge for Shadow Strike, 0.33 seconds of torment per second of recharge for Skale Venom, but with venomous aura this becomes 2 seconds.
So the necro is second only to warrior in frequency of application.
This. If you also take into consideration epidemic, they have the potential to apply 6 stacks of torment to 4 players. They are hands down the best at applying AOE torment.
I can agree that “thematically” torment sounds necromantic, and that an option might be to take bleed off of a skill and put the equal or lesser amount of torment damage in its place. I certainly do not feel it is necessary by any means though.
What exactly makes you think necromancers are the special snowflakes that “deserve” more torment than other classes? That’s exactly like a warrior complaining he has no access to chill and poison.
Probably because the condition was explicitly designed for necromancers. The Death Shroud 5 was stated to be the first skill in the game to have the new DoT condition (it was, too, the other skills that got had that functionality added later in development) and they specifically asked the Necro community for ideas as to the nature of this new condition.
So if any class should have high application of Torment, it really should be necros, since the condition was designed for them to use.
First, to Liewec, Dhuumfire was the last on hit burning proc, which was unnecessary and many necros did not want because they didn’t need it. They got it, it was too good, and they got double nerfed for their troubles.
As for torment, changing several of the bleeds to torment wouldn’t be a bad thing for necros, but it isn’t necessary for the class.
What exactly makes you think necromancers are the special snowflakes that “deserve” more torment than other classes? That’s exactly like a warrior complaining he has no access to chill and poison.
right, because he should not have access to chill or poison. he can neither cast spells or concoct venoms. meanwhile, the necromancer is a dark caster. torment. the name even implies “for use by dark casters”
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What exactly makes you think necromancers are the special snowflakes that “deserve” more torment than other classes? That’s exactly like a warrior complaining he has no access to chill and poison.
Other than that it was ORIGINALLY MADE for the necromancer class, not much.
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
Probably because the condition was explicitly designed for necromancers. The Death Shroud 5 was stated to be the first skill in the game to have the new DoT condition (it was, too, the other skills that got had that functionality added later in development) and they specifically asked the Necro community for ideas as to the nature of this new condition.
So if any class should have high application of Torment, it really should be necros, since the condition was designed for them to use.
It was explicitly stated that the new condition was something to be proliferated across multiple professions. That’s why it was also explicitly stated to be a condition, following the same design principles as the other conditions right from the start. If it was a necromancer specific thing it’d have it’s own icon, like stances, elixir s, venoms, etc etc.
Also I seriously doubt when necromancers were asked what they wanted the new condition to be they said “bleed, but 50% stronger”. Obviously anet already had their plans with it.
Probably because the condition was explicitly designed for necromancers. The Death Shroud 5 was stated to be the first skill in the game to have the new DoT condition (it was, too, the other skills that got had that functionality added later in development) and they specifically asked the Necro community for ideas as to the nature of this new condition.
So if any class should have high application of Torment, it really should be necros, since the condition was designed for them to use.
It was explicitly stated that the new condition was something to be proliferated across multiple professions. That’s why it was also explicitly stated to be a condition, following the same design principles as the other conditions right from the start. If it was a necromancer specific thing it’d have it’s own icon, like stances, elixir s, venoms, etc etc.
Also I seriously doubt when necromancers were asked what they wanted the new condition to be they said “bleed, but 50% stronger”. Obviously anet already had their plans with it.
If you’d like, I can go dig up the thread. It’s in the necro subforum, btw. When it was first announced that there would be a new condition, it was also stated that it would first be appearing on the new Death Shroud #5 skill and its exact nature was still up for debate, so they asked Necromancrs, the primary recipients of said condition (we knew it would not be exclusive, and there are other things that conditions interact with that would make an exclusive debuff not work the same), what it should be.
There were dozens of ideas (from siphoning endurance or health, to a burst if the condition was cleansed early), but the one thing most of us agreed on was that Death Shroud #5 needed to be a skill that prevented enemies from escaping us so easily, or at least punish them for it. The current functionality of Torment was one of the many ideas.
So thank you for proving your own ignorance. Torment was explicitly designed for necros.
>a player created thread with less than a page of player replies as your proof
???
There is literally no other condition attributed to a special snowflake class. In fact the only case that could possibly be seen that way is ironically, necromancers having the best access to chill.
>a player created thread with less than a page of player replies as your proof
???
There is literally no other condition attributed to a special snowflake class. In fact the only case that could possibly be seen that way is ironically, necromancers having the best access to chill.
It was created for Necros, not exclusively for them, however. I see you did not even bother to go to the SotG episode where John Chapman was pretty explicit in asking the necro community for ideas at 55:30, where he also was extremely explicit in saying that the new condition would first show up on the new Death Shroud 5.
Quit talking out of your kitten and follow all of the evidence. There were three or four threads on the topic in the necro subforum, and that one was nowhere near the longest. It was just the first one that popped up on a quick Google search.
And just to prove that, you say “There is literally no other condition attributed to a special snowflake class.” What do you think Fear is? Did you know Fear was originally intended to be Necro only? It’s functionality hasn’t changed at all, by the way, as it has always been a condition.
There were dozens of ideas (from siphoning endurance or health, to a burst if the condition was cleansed early), but the one thing most of us agreed on was that Death Shroud #5 needed to be a skill that prevented enemies from escaping us so easily, or at least punish them for it. The current functionality of Torment was one of the many ideas.
One of the worst ideas. Personally i don’t see any difference between bleed and torment.
I don’t get the idea behind torment. Staying immobile is asinine, so the double damage while moving is essentially guaranteed. Why even have this “situational” extra damage when its nearly 100% unless immobilized or stunned which will actually cut the dps of it.
In any case, I don’t think necro axe should have torment on the aa, axe is a power weapon and a pretty good one. I’d rather have more combo finishers on necro before more torment, like making unholy feast a blast finisher.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Axe is a no-condition-DPS weapon. I’d rather have it stay that way.
Each profession should have both Condition-DPS and no-condition-DPS weapons, bot for range and melee. Elementalists are horribly left out in that regard. Why doing that to necromancers too?
As for adding more torment to necromancers, I don’t see why not, but it should be either in a new weapon, or replacing one of the appearances of a condition found twice in a weapon, like replacing the bleed in Grasping Dead, since it’s already in Blood Curse and Rending Curse. And torment is movement-related so it goes well with Grasping Death’s theme of grabbing the enemy so they do not move.
I think torment works thematically on mesmers. The class is all about mind games, after all, and torment delivers in that respect.
Anything can work thematically with anything presented the right way.
“More damage when moving” is a really broad base for any theme. So even elementalsits could use Torment.
Not just torment. Torment and chilled in the same skill:
LOL a necro complaining about not having enough condition, you seriously can’t be serious about this
Pretty much this. Don’t they have access to every condition in the game? Now that Fear Interrupts they could have Confusion as well. they have great access to conditions already, why do they think they need the BEST access to every condition that is in the game….
LOL a necro complaining about not having enough condition, you seriously can’t be serious about this
Pretty much this. Don’t they have access to every condition in the game? Now that Fear Interrupts they could have Confusion as well. they have great access to conditions already, why do they think they need the BEST access to every condition that is in the game….
Perplexity isn’t even necessary for necros to get Confusion. Nor are transfers or boon corruption. Necros have been able to get Confusion on their own since day 1 without RNG or enemy dependance.
That said, we aren’t asking for "the best access to every condition in the game (even though necros are supposed to be “masters of conditions”)". We’re asking for better access to a condition that was designed for the profession to use. If getting better Torment access causes us to lose out on other conditions, fine. The condition was designed for Necro use, it would be nice if they could use it well.
It’s rather similar to a Guardian wanting to use a hypothetical new boon that was designed for them (say, higher outgoing heals?) at least as well as an Engineer, who also got it (but has more frequent access and can get higher stacks).
I get that you have this unreasonable hatred to conditions, but this is primarily a matter of “it was meant for us, why are we the worst at it?”
I would was torment was made for the necro seeing how every necro gets it naturally from their profession mechanic while other classes need to equip a certain trait, rune or weapon. And it not like their is a lot of ways to apply it in general compare to other conditions, so there is not much competition.
If getting better Torment access causes us to lose out on other conditions, fine. The condition was designed for Necro use, it would be nice if they could use it well.
Confusion probably should’ve been a Mesmer-only thing but they threw that out the window a long time ago, so.
It would be quite interesting if Mesmer damage output was substantially based on the concept of Confusion, not being able to attack directly. Alas, different game I suppose
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
