Guild Wars 2

Necromancer MM… Assuming all minions live, and all minions have a steady rate of damage, how does a Necromancer MM’s damage rank against other classes?

(I’m aware this isn’t practical for dungeons, but curious)

Depends on the build. A traditional MM build 40640 doesnt rate terribly highly from boons. Mostly becuase the boons only benefit the necro himself and rarely the minions.

To explain. A guardian cast uses his f1. If the group is stacked on the guardian all 5 players will get the boon and burning on hit proc but the pets will not. This is how most pve currently is. Theres usually 4 other players in range that get hte boon. However if there AREN’T 4 players in range but the necros minions are in range. instead THEY will get the boon and the burning on hit proc.

Minions tend to benefit more form boons in PvP scenarios. An MM mancer partnered with a guardian is an interesting combo because the guardain can reliably use his f1 to its fullest effect. He casts f1 and the pets around him will ALSO burn his target just as normally a player would. The pets will also get might as long as the necro himself is out of range. It looks to some very interesting play as time goes on. The pets will also gain protection,regeneration, and aegis from the guard as well as the fight lasts increasing there performance and there “effective” dps

However in PvE (currently the only place where dps is the end all do all goal to some players) Your either in dungeons (stacked into a corner or using a similar method to easy mode a fight because kitten near no one ever bothers to actually FIGHT bosses. or stacked in melee to boon share between the PLAYERS) its impossible to grant might stacks reliably to your flesh golem or your bone fiend. (primary sources of long term MM dps besides the MM itself…bone minions im considering a burst option as there often used as a “drop and pop” attack)

TlDR for the first part: MM dps isn’t capable of reaching its potential in the current working of the game except in specific circumstances. Due to priority of players of pets for boon distribution and the inability of the necromancer to reliably buff his pets they can’t be a main source of damage in zerk meta situations.

Theres way around this though. Using minions primarily as a utility source and instead focusing damage on the necro itself can enable you to still do comperable damage to other players without losing the heart of your playstyle. A 20606 Cavalier build is an example of this (something I currently use in PvE and am testing in TPvP with some friends)

However a traditional MMancer cant typically (except in specific circumstances) fully utilize its damage potential. Thus gets left behind by the often simpler spam methods of other builds as far as PvE is concerned. Remember. The metas arn’t the metas because there fun. But because there the easiest way to do the most damage. There the most “efficient” method. Some people honestly enjoy them. Power to them. Sadly mostt people I know despise the meta and use them only because they feel they have to.

TL;DR for the whole: A traditional Minion Mancer does significantly enough less damage that while a viable method of play there typically looked downed on. However other variants of the MM build have more success at being closer to optimal without sacrificing the heart of the playstyle.

Kain Francois.4328:

Necromancer MM… Assuming all minions live, and all minions have a steady rate of damage, how does a Necromancer MM’s damage rank against other classes?

(I’m aware this isn’t practical for dungeons, but curious)

The Grandmaster trait deathnova would need rework. Death nova does decent damage when they die.

I go more bunker build rather then DPS when running MM see signature for build (changed shadow fiend to flesh wurm). When using minions for DPS i tend to focus more on bone minions and death nova. I’ve been playing around with 4-0-6-0-4 trait line that seems fun. I’ll post a link to the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAndWjc00UbxN22whbifhS6SIASBIDzTgysYKA-TZRBABbcEAAvMQFnAAr2fAgHBAA

Reminder: This topic exists solely to find out how a zerker necro + minions compare against the DPS against other classes.

I would like numbers, not opinions.

Please do not go off-topic from my thread just to show off builds that the topic discussion does not care about.

Kain Francois.4328:

Reminder: This topic exists solely to find out how a zerker necro + minions compare against the DPS against other classes.

I would like numbers, not opinions.

Please do not go off-topic from my thread just to show off builds that the topic discussion does not care about.

No one has numbers on a MM build because no one would ever consider it a competitive DPS build for PvE

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

So? Play MM if you want to have fun but it is nowhere near optimal DPS

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Thaddeus.4891:

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Highlight the part I agree with the most. Minions thats focus on DPS die too fast. If your going to try to use minions for DPS then your better off using minions like bombs or only using ranged minions and hope they don’t get too close to all the AOE that is constant in a fight. 4-4-6-0-0 or 6-6-4-0-0 personally I don’t like too much for MM stats because like I said before the minions just die way too fast. You’ll be able to get 1 or 2 (if your lucky) uses of you minions utility skill before having to wait for their cool down because they die quick. 2-0-6-6-0 for me is the optimal MM trait because it allows your minions to actually stay in the fight and lets you use your utilities more often then other trait lines. Life Siphon + toughness will give you a lot of survivability while still doing enough DPS to win in a 1v1. Personally when I play with builds I look for two thing. 1) Can the build win 1v1 2) Can the build hold out in a 1v2 or even have enough survivability to let me escape. Full DPS MM might win a few 1v1 (maybe) but will not last in a 1v2 situation.

How does its damage rank? Pretty high against vets and lower ranked mobs. Anything else and they spend a lot of time respawning but they are a lot better than they were.

Please stay on topic… I would like numbers, please.

Numbers do not mean anything out of context. Against an ordinary mob in PvE and combined with the Necromancer’s own dps, MM is a great build… for roaming PvE.

The thing about AIs is that they do not dodge, ever, and do not heal in combat unless you do it for them.

Zoso.8279:

Thaddeus.4891:

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Highlight the part I agree with the most. Minions thats focus on DPS die too fast. If your going to try to use minions for DPS then your better off using minions like bombs or only using ranged minions and hope they don’t get too close to all the AOE that is constant in a fight. 4-4-6-0-0 or 6-6-4-0-0 personally I don’t like too much for MM stats because like I said before the minions just die way too fast. You’ll be able to get 1 or 2 (if your lucky) uses of you minions utility skill before having to wait for their cool down because they die quick. 2-0-6-6-0 for me is the optimal MM trait because it allows your minions to actually stay in the fight and lets you use your utilities more often then other trait lines. Life Siphon + toughness will give you a lot of survivability while still doing enough DPS to win in a 1v1. Personally when I play with builds I look for two thing. 1) Can the build win 1v1 2) Can the build hold out in a 1v2 or even have enough survivability to let me escape. Full DPS MM might win a few 1v1 (maybe) but will not last in a 1v2 situation.

You know the minion health, attack, toughness have nothing to do with the necros stats right?

NeXeD.3042:

Zoso.8279:

Thaddeus.4891:

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Highlight the part I agree with the most. Minions thats focus on DPS die too fast. If your going to try to use minions for DPS then your better off using minions like bombs or only using ranged minions and hope they don’t get too close to all the AOE that is constant in a fight. 4-4-6-0-0 or 6-6-4-0-0 personally I don’t like too much for MM stats because like I said before the minions just die way too fast. You’ll be able to get 1 or 2 (if your lucky) uses of you minions utility skill before having to wait for their cool down because they die quick. 2-0-6-6-0 for me is the optimal MM trait because it allows your minions to actually stay in the fight and lets you use your utilities more often then other trait lines. Life Siphon + toughness will give you a lot of survivability while still doing enough DPS to win in a 1v1. Personally when I play with builds I look for two thing. 1) Can the build win 1v1 2) Can the build hold out in a 1v2 or even have enough survivability to let me escape. Full DPS MM might win a few 1v1 (maybe) but will not last in a 1v2 situation.

You know the minion health, attack, toughness have nothing to do with the necros stats right?

Flesh of the Master give you 20+ toughness for each minion summoned. Vampiric Master gives you life. Fetid Consumption give you automatic condi cleanse.

Kain Francois.4328:

Please stay on topic… I would like numbers, please.

I feel sorry for you and your topic, as everyone who wrote here doesn’t care what did you ask for and instead of ignoring the topic they just come here and write undesired messages.

Zoso.8279:

NeXeD.3042:

Zoso.8279:

Thaddeus.4891:

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Highlight the part I agree with the most. Minions thats focus on DPS die too fast. If your going to try to use minions for DPS then your better off using minions like bombs or only using ranged minions and hope they don’t get too close to all the AOE that is constant in a fight. 4-4-6-0-0 or 6-6-4-0-0 personally I don’t like too much for MM stats because like I said before the minions just die way too fast. You’ll be able to get 1 or 2 (if your lucky) uses of you minions utility skill before having to wait for their cool down because they die quick. 2-0-6-6-0 for me is the optimal MM trait because it allows your minions to actually stay in the fight and lets you use your utilities more often then other trait lines. Life Siphon + toughness will give you a lot of survivability while still doing enough DPS to win in a 1v1. Personally when I play with builds I look for two thing. 1) Can the build win 1v1 2) Can the build hold out in a 1v2 or even have enough survivability to let me escape. Full DPS MM might win a few 1v1 (maybe) but will not last in a 1v2 situation.

You know the minion health, attack, toughness have nothing to do with the necros stats right?

Flesh of the Master give you 20+ toughness for each minion summoned. Vampiric Master gives you life. Fetid Consumption give you automatic condi cleanse.

Thx, not what I asked though. Also totm is bugged to kitten right now right? Why handicap yourself.

Kain Francois.4328:

Necromancer MM… Assuming all minions live, and all minions have a steady rate of damage, how does a Necromancer MM’s damage rank against other classes?

(I’m aware this isn’t practical for dungeons, but curious)

I won’t do the math but I can assure you the damage is abysmal compared to the standard zerk setups of ele guards warriors theives. Even compared to other necro specs it wouldn’t come close. If your doing it for fun then rock on man. If your looking for efficiency I’m pve then I’m kinda useless but I’m pretty sure it’s full zerk and the traits are one of these 6/5/0/0/3, 6/6/0/0/2, 6/2/0/0/6

NeXeD.3042:

Thx, not what I asked though. Also totm is bugged to kitten right now right? Why handicap yourself.

Oh sorry, misunderstood the question. Yeah I know the minions stats don’t affect my necromancer stats but they themselves affect my necromancer because of the traits I pointed out in my last post. FotM is a bit bugged basically exploding all my minions when I have Death Nova but its ok because of the damage done when they explode and when running a minion build you have to expect bugs lol minions themselves are bugged so even playing an MM your kinda handicapped :P

To address the OP i’ve never ran any variation of full DPS MM because when playing an MM build you have to take your minions survivability into consideration and minions just die way to fast for me to even experiment with a full DPS MM build but if your looking for numbers a GREAT way to find out is going to HotM open up the combat log from your chat box and test the minions DPS on a test golem. Very easy to do just takes some time.

Short answer if you want to play MM do not I can’t lie it is fun, but it won’t compare in dps

Kain Francois.4328:

Please stay on topic… I would like numbers, please.

Sorry mate. Nobody will do the math for MM Necromancer. Maybe you will be lucky and someone will, but you probably better to do it yourself.

MM have terrible dmg so really few ppl if any will take the time to calculate it.

Anyway, it will be terrible.