[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

so … does all minion master necromancer uses this grandmaster trait?
how useful do they find it?
does the 10% chance trigger often?

well i have this grandmaster trait equipped and i have no idea how good it is or when it actually activates.

could i request some buffs for this grandmaster trait?
as well as introduce some visual effects on minion removing boons.

this is how the trait is currently at:
______________________________________________________________
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necromantic_Corruption
Necromantic Corruption
Trait line Necromancer Death Magic
Tier Grandmaster
Type Major

Minions have a chance to remove a boon when they attack.
Trigger chance: 10%
Boons removed: 1
______________________________________________________________

and now i wish to propose the following changes, the more powerful the minion, the higher the chances.

Minions have a chance to remove a boon when they attack.
Bone Minion Trigger chance: 10%
Jagged Horror Trigger chance: 15%
Blood Fiend Trigger chance: 20%
Bone Fiend Trigger chance: 20%
Flesh Wurm Trigger chance: 20%
Shadow Fiend Trigger chance: 25%
Flesh Golem Trigger chance: 30%

Boons removed: 1

also add an obvious visual effect on the minion who successfully removed a boon. maybe like make the minion flash blue upon a successful removal?

by the way, for ease of reference, the approximate attack speed of minions:

bone minion: 3 seconds melee
jagged horror: 3 seconds ??? melee
blood fiend: 3 seconds ranged
bone fiend: 2.5 seconds ranged
flesh wurm: 3 seconds ranged
shadow fiend: 1.5 seconds melee
flesh golem: 0.8 seconds melee

there we go …

since they said they wanna lower the sustain of necromancers, i feel that it is only fair to give them better sustained boon removal.

what do you think?

update:
what if we change the way it works completely?

Necromantic Corruption
Trait line Necromancer Death Magic
Tier Grandmaster Type Major
“Minions explodes into an unholy feast when they die.”

Notes
The activated skill is Unholy Feast:
“Cripple nearby foes and remove a boon. Gain retaliation for each foe you strike.”
Damage Damage: 269 (0.800)?
Retaliation: 3 s
Crippled: 5 s
Boons Removed: 1
Range: 600

please discuss!

(edited by Deimos Tel Arin.7391)

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

Just a tiny little detail, that actually you have more than one Bone minion, ocasionally more than one Jagged horror too and Bone fiend shoots 2 projectile, so the trigger chance is bigger with those minions.
Increasing the base value of the trigger would be too drastic (30% on golem is huge with that attack speed), i can already imagine that a guardian pops Save yourselves and it immediately disappears from him.
Long lasting boons should be removed already with these numbers, but a more experienced player could tell if its working as intended or not.
If its goind up to 15% maybe it wouldnt be that op, as you still have a bunch of melee minions in a MM build, which can be kited.

ps: +1 for the visual effect idea

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Just a tiny little detail, that actually you have more than one Bone minion, ocasionally more than one Jagged horror too and Bone fiend shoots 2 projectile, so the trigger chance is bigger with those minions.
Increasing the base value of the trigger would be too drastic (30% on golem is huge with that attack speed), i can already imagine that a guardian pops Save yourselves and it immediately disappears from him.
Long lasting boons should be removed already with these numbers, but a more experienced player could tell if its working as intended or not.
If its goind up to 15% maybe it wouldnt be that op, as you still have a bunch of melee minions in a MM build, which can be kited.

ps: +1 for the visual effect idea

aye, thanks for the feedback!
sorry that my reply is 6 months late!

still, 10% is a very low chance, how to make this grand master trait more useful without making it too powerful?

i just realized this topic does not have any other feed back.
fellow necromancer players, please give some feed back!
thanks!

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

Mhhh in a mm build i would still go with death nova. I think death nova simply gives to much compared to Necromantic corruption.

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

since they said they wanna lower the sustain of necromancers, i feel that it is only fair to give them better sustained boon removal.

What? Where did they say that they want to lower the sustain of necros?

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Mhhh in a mm build i would still go with death nova. I think death nova simply gives to much compared to Necromantic corruption.

i see. thanks for the feedback!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Nova
Death Nova
Minions explode in a cloud of poison when they die. This effect also triggers when you are downed. When you kill an enemy, summon a Jagged Horror minion to fight by your side.

Miscellaneous effect.png Jagged Horror Summon Recharge: 15 s
Duration.png Jagged Horror Lifetime Duration: 30 s

Notes
The cloud of poison has a duration of 4 seconds.
The activated skill is Poison Cloud:

Damage Damage: 183
Poison 40px.png Poison: 5 s (420 damage)
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Targets: 5
Miscellaneous effect.png Pulses: 2
Range.png Radius: 240
Combo.png Combo Field: Poison
Miscellaneous effect.png Unblockable

what if, necromatic corruption causes minions to remove boons when they die?

say,
Necromantic Corruption
Trait line Necromancer Death Magic
Tier Grandmaster Type Major
“Minions explodes into an unholy feast when they die.”

Notes
The activated skill is Unholy Feast:
“Cripple nearby foes and remove a boon. Gain retaliation for each foe you strike.”
Damage Damage: 269 (0.800)?
Retaliation: 3 s
Crippled: 5 s
Boons Removed: 1
Range: 600

since they said they wanna lower the sustain of necromancers, i feel that it is only fair to give them better sustained boon removal.

What? Where did they say that they want to lower the sustain of necros?

it was a long time ago.
i think some minion life stealing abilities were nerfed.

the original post of this topic was made quite some time ago.

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

since they said they wanna lower the sustain of necromancers, i feel that it is only fair to give them better sustained boon removal.

What? Where did they say that they want to lower the sustain of necros?

it was a long time ago.
i think some minion life stealing abilities were nerfed.

the original post of this topic was made quite some time ago.

Sry but i dont think that is so correct. They reduced the healing aspect of vampiric master in order to allow healing power to have an effect on it. It only nerfed the soldier amulet mms the clerics amulet necros (the in my opinion better mms) were buffed with that. So it was hardly a nerf for the mm sustain.

[Necromancer] Necromantic Corruption

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

So first off about, sustain, they lowered VM’s life stealing because it was bugged and not scaling with healing power. So they reduced the siphon by 10% but allowed healing power to scale, overall it was pretty neutral of a change.

As far as Necromantic Corruption: the issue is there is absolutely no control over it and it competes with Death Nova. People really seem to underestimate just how hard death nova puts in work.
Death Nova:
Directly punishes enemies for mindlessly killing minions, because the 1.2k damage (or so) can really add up
Self-combos with every commonly used minion except Flesh Golem
With simply Bone Minions, gives you 100% poison uptime (far more, actually) and 50% (ish) weakness uptime, due to how quickly it stacks poison and since Putrid Explosion self-combos for blast on the poison fields.
Gives you access to on-demand poison fields, something extremely powerful for downed-pressure on a profession that has very bad stomping

Basically, Death Nova pulls MM builds together, giving a massive boost to the attrition they want (this trait is a major reason why MM is one of the only real attrition builds necros have).

Necromantic Corruption on the other hand… removes boons sometimes, and purely randomly. Sure rarely it might completely strip a save yourselves, but most of the time it’ll just remove regen over and over. This isn’t just bad for the Necromancer, who can never choose when to spike boon removal, but also for the enemy, who has no counterplay besides… never getting hit. My suggestion is it modifies all minion active skills (similar to how the engi elite trait works), giving them boon-stripping related functionality on the actives only.

For example:
Putrid Explosion removes 1 boon per enemy hit
Haunt steals one boon off the target (only the target, since he is technically AoE, and works like Thief steal where it doesn’t mirror the duration but uses a set duration) and applies it to the Necro
Rigor Mortis removes one boon per shot (note, this could either mean two boons total, one for each volley, or four, one per individual shot)
Charge steals one boon per enemy hit and applies it to the Flesh Golem (same as Haunt, it works off a set duration, and only applies once per enemy, not once per time they are hit)

Note that all the above can be changed around as necessary, you can make them more “generic” as just 1-2 boons removed per skill, but I think it makes for far better play/counterplay patterns if it is centered around active skills, since those should be the main focal points of the interactions between an MM and opponent. I also highly suggest the same thing apply to Training of the Master, changing it from a passive damage boost to adding certain effects to the minion actives.

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