Guild Wars 2

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

Pointed out the most common dhuumfire build, more specifically the one that was mentioned to which you responded passing it off as a power build. Stay in denial all you want, but in terms of, and let me spell this out for you, V-I-A-B-L-E builds, dhuumfire builds are condi builds. ; P

I’m still waiting for Gaile Gray to come and give us hope.

Good luck with that. Necro is a hot potato. Most of the time I think the profession causes so much headache for the balance team it should die.

Anchoku.8142:

it should die.

You cannot kill what is already dead!

Kain Francois.4328:

You cannot kill what is already dead!

Apply fire.

Dhuumfire problem?
Easy.
Just remove it.
Problem solved.

;)

Anybody who takes dhuumfire over the full terror spec is getting more burst but are missing out on the extra cc that comes from nightmare runes + greater marks/reapers protection. Dhuumfire is all right for 1v1s but the traditional terrormancer build is just simply better because of all the fears; considering you miss on your life blast you’re kind of screwed for dhuumfire.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)

Jelzouki.4128:

Anybody who takes dhuumfire over the full terror spec is getting more burst but are missing out on the extra cc that comes from nightmare runes + greater marks/reapers protection. Dhuumfire is all right for 1v1s but the traditional terrormancer build is just simply better because of all the fears; considering you miss on your life blast you’re kind of screwed for dhuumfire.

You lose out on rp, you gain 300 power 30% condi duration, a damaging boon removal, and I usually take the signet trait(ughhh just imagine if we had aristocracy runes). It’s a glass condi spec but played correctly is still quite amazing and the only passive is then nightmare rune.

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)

Thought we were talking about viable build options. I don’t consider dhuumfire viable. You may think something else, idc. Many traits are in the wrong traitline for a necro, including dhuumfire. Putting 6 in a power traitline for a condi spec is a waste if you want to play a condi build. Again, this is my opinion.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)

Thought we were talking about viable build options. I don’t consider dhuumfire viable. You may think something else, idc. Many traits are in the wrong traitline for a necro, including dhuumfire. Putting 6 in a power traitline for a condi spec is a waste if you want to play a condi build. Again, this is my opinion.

To be fair, when I was experimenting with it again, I did enjoy having Chill of Death back in a Condition build :P
And Spiteful Spirit is not half bad…
Plus, you can safely stay on range, whereas PoC requires you to get into melee range

Dhuumfire isnt bad on PvP/WvW power builds. Its a cover condition and a bit of extra armour ignoring damage when you life blast. And seeing as most people are going to be above 50% hp for most of a fight you probably get more out of dhuumfire than close to death. Especially if you cant burst very efficiently at the start of the fight.

Burn is pretty strong even without condition damage investments.

I have been wondering why burning is so strong. I have been messing with it in other professions and it really is powerful. It does a lot of damage rapidly where bleeds and poisons give enough time for condition clears. Bleeds can stack but that takes a while. Confusion has some counterplay, at least. Burning hits hard and fast. I am considering whether converting it to a stackable, lower damage condition might be better for the game. It would give people more knobs to tweak – both dev’s and players.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)

Thought we were talking about viable build options. I don’t consider dhuumfire viable. You may think something else, idc. Many traits are in the wrong traitline for a necro, including dhuumfire. Putting 6 in a power traitline for a condi spec is a waste if you want to play a condi build. Again, this is my opinion.

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

Anchoku.8142:

I have been wondering why burning is so strong. I have been messing with it in other professions and it really is powerful. It does a lot of damage rapidly where bleeds and poisons give enough time for condition clears. Bleeds can stack but that takes a while. Confusion has some counterplay, at least. Burning hits hard and fast. I am considering whether converting it to a stackable, lower damage condition might be better for the game. It would give people more knobs to tweak – both dev’s and players.

Burning is the same as having 5 stacks of bleeding while having 462 more condition damage (which is around half a pvp amulet). I think increasing the scaling round 20%~40% while removing that 462 extra base stat would be good for the game .

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

signet mastery and chill of death are good for condi builds.

spoj.9672:

signet mastery and chill of death are good for condi builds.

Yep, if Necromancer’s had any kind of proper sustain, I’d swap Worm for Plague Signet, get SoS and Corrupt Boon and voila, proper signet condi build…

… if ;_;

Yeah its not so great in PvP because you cant really afford to run full signets. But for PvE you can run 3 signets and BiP coupled with aristocracy runes and sigil of battle. Really good amount of might on a condi build.

Chill of death is useful everywhere though. For pvp you could just run spiteful spirit. Its not great but its something.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Dhuumfire is fine for its place. Parasitic contagion is in the wrong traitline.

As is Unholy sanctuary.

I dont think unholy sanctuary is in the wrong place. Its just not good enough to justify going that far into a bad traitline. Although i would say it fits slightly better in soul reaping. But meh.

I think this …
but then if you put that …
and if you do that …

zapv.8051:

Here is the problem,
things necrors lack:
in combat mobility on par with any other class
burst damage
invulnerabilities
vigor
dodge skills
blocks
sustain through traits
stability
the amount of combos fields and finishers other classes have

Yes, necros have a lot of bad traits, but the real problem is that necros forgo all the mechanics that make other classes what they are. Necros don’t have an identity in this game that makes sense. Right now the class focuses around using conditions for defense, offense, and utility which doesn’t work unless you dedicate to it fully because of how conditions work. No other class is as dependent on conditions in every single build as necros. Even necro power builds are extremely dependent on soft cc conditions, which doesn’t work when the enemy has cleansing. The class needs to get either some serious mobility, and some vigor, or some stability and improved sustain. Currently necros are simply too much of a sitting duck because of their inability to avoid cc.

Point.

spoj.9672:

Dhuumfire is fine for its place. Parasitic contagion is in the wrong traitline.

Which traitline would then be the right one for Parasitic contagion? Bloodmagic grandmaster?

Muchacho.2390:

spoj.9672:

Dhuumfire is fine for its place. Parasitic contagion is in the wrong traitline.

Which traitline would then be the right one for Parasitic contagion? Bloodmagic grandmaster?

Thats where i would put it or even curses. Or I would have never put it in the game at all. It seems they designed so many traits which fit curses best so they were forced to put them elswhere. So basically forcing us into condition type builds.

spoj.9672:

I dont think unholy sanctuary is in the wrong place. Its just not good enough to justify going that far into a bad traitline. Although i would say it fits slightly better in soul reaping. But meh.

I agree. I wouldn’t mind leaving it in its space but it doesn’t feel like it is at its full potential yet. It should definitely be worked on. Parasitic Contagion is definitely in the wrong spot.

spoj.9672:

Muchacho.2390:

spoj.9672:

Dhuumfire is fine for its place. Parasitic contagion is in the wrong traitline.

Which traitline would then be the right one for Parasitic contagion? Bloodmagic grandmaster?

Thats where i would put it or even curses. Or I would have never put it in the game at all. It seems they designed so many traits which fit curses best so they were forced to put them elswhere. So basically forcing us into condition type builds.

That is exactly what I’ve been thinking ever since I started playing necro and this is why so many people respond to the forums asking for a type of rework to our traits.

spoj.9672:

I dont think unholy sanctuary is in the wrong place. Its just not good enough to justify going that far into a bad traitline. Although i would say it fits slightly better in soul reaping. But meh.

It would have much more synergy if it was put into Blood magic. Maybe that this traitline gets some purpose then.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Every proffesion have its “wrongly placed traits”,but yet using them for the sake of the build.Condi PU memsers use a line that have no passive boosts to condi,but a minor trait that gives cond on clones death. that is the game made,dhuufire is very much viable to be meta,and to just be known.Bottom line is , necro dosn’t have lack of builds like guardians or thieves.

I think Dhuumfire is fine in Spite. It still is a “hybrid” type skill but much less powerful.

Here is where I would shuffle the GM traits.

Parasitic Contagion -> Curses
Path of Corruption -> Spite
Unholy Sanctuary it is fair to leave it in Death Magic but I would rather change it to a passive retaliation proc with ICD
Unholy Martyr -> Soul Reaping
Renewing Blast -> Blood Magic

Perhaps the developers nerfed the positions of the new Grandmaster traits on purpose.

Anchoku.8142:

Just another opinion but here is where I would shuffle the traits.

Parasitic Contagion -> Curses
Path of Corruption -> Spite
Unholy Sanctuary it is fair to leave it in Death Magic but I would rather change it to a passive retaliation proc with ICD
Unholy Martyr -> Soul Reaping
Renewing Blast -> Blood Magic

Perhaps the developers nerfed the positions of the new Grandmaster traits on purpose.

Disagree with this.

My list would be:

Parasitic Contagion > Blood Magic
Path of Corruption > Stay in Curses
Unholy Sanctuary > Soul Reaping
Unholy Martyr > Scrap it (why did we get a grandmaster trait which basically does what plague signet does?)
Renewing Blast > Scrap it (Completely stupid as its unreliable to hit and doesnt make sense positioning wise. Doesnt heal the necro either.)

Then create two new traits which actually fit necros, do something useful, are worthy of grandmaster tier and fit the correct traitline. :P

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Every proffesion have its “wrongly placed traits”,but yet using them for the sake of the build.Condi PU memsers use a line that have no passive boosts to condi,but a minor trait that gives cond on clones death. that is the game made,dhuufire is very much viable to be meta,and to just be known.Bottom line is , necro dosn’t have lack of builds like guardians or thieves.

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

A guardian utilizes most of his weapon combinations, where as a necro is limited.

Jelzouki.4128:

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Every proffesion have its “wrongly placed traits”,but yet using them for the sake of the build.Condi PU memsers use a line that have no passive boosts to condi,but a minor trait that gives cond on clones death. that is the game made,dhuufire is very much viable to be meta,and to just be known.Bottom line is , necro dosn’t have lack of builds like guardians or thieves.

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

A guardian utilizes most of his weapon combinations, where as a necro is limited.

Weapons and builds are not the same.For a guard,in tpvp,you have one effective build which is tank that you can tweak a little,meaning you can say it have two tanking builds.But that is it,dps and condi guard are not close to viable in tpvp.And weaponset dosnt change that.

Jelzouki.4128:

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

No it doesn’t. What thief lacks, is thief players willing to play anything outside of stealth spam builds. Similarly Necro has a fair bit of diversity. You simply claim they do not. (See, I can claim my opinion as if it were fact, as easy as you can)

I can agree that some of the necromancers could use both trait line changes (changing some traits from one line to another), as well as trait changes. Then again, this can be said for every profession.

As I see it, the problem of build diversity is as much the players as anything else. As for example. Go to individual professional sub forums. When players start a new profession, they go to its corresponding sub forum, and ask for the meta builds. Instead of playing and experimenting with the profession to see what they find fun or what works for them. We have seen entire “metas” change between updates, with literally no changes added in game, simply because 2 high end PvP teams made a change. One team lost a player, and the other changed a build to adjust for the changed play in the first team. Viola, all of the sudden we had two build that were not “meta” that then were. The second problem, is that everyone wants to point fingers to demand changes to what would work for their build, regardless of what is fair, balanced, or who they screw over. Again, this is a player problem. Then conflicting opinions bash the devs and make post attacking Anet for what ever choice they do make.

I agree with the others, Jelzouki. At launch, I thought Necro had more build options than any other profession and its flexibility has only gotten better. It just does not have a stand-out build that everyone has to run like other professions. Dhuumfire on axe was like that and got nerfed along with Fear chaining and bleeds.

The current build gaps ate full signets, full spectral, and siphons but a lot of the individual skills are used ad hoc. Signets, spectral, minions, axe, dagger, downed health, and whatnot have all been improved.

The only gaps not improved are siphon heals, group heals, specral ans signet synery, and combat mobility.

I get chided for experimenting with sub-optimal builds but Necro, being somewhat nicheless, has many options.

Jelzouki.4128:

Where is the variety?

Necromancer has got to be the one class that has most un-used skills/traits. I find myself getting countered by most builds in the game. A condi necro is really only good at countering engis without condi removal and thieves. Power necro is a joke, its one of the all-or-nothing builds that are extremely difficult to sustain yourself. Every other class has a better source of sustain while rolling berserker. Lich form you say? Yeah blind/dodge/invul etc.

Anyways its not just necros, a lot of other classes have useless builds/traits.

What is the goal of arena net?
Are you trying to balance heavies with heavies, lights with lights, mediums with mediums? You’re doing a terrible job if that is the goal.

Let’s take a look at these three classes on metabattle: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior.

Conquest Builds
Warrior – Axe/Longbow
Warrior – Axe/Wh Longbow
Warrior – Banner Bunker
Warrior – GS/Longbow
Warrior – Hambow
Warrior – Hybrid Sword Warrior
Warrior – Mace/Sword Lb Condition
Warrior – Shout Support

Conquest Builds
Engineer – Bomb/Grenade
Engineer – Celestial Rifle
Engineer – Decap
Engineer – Double Kit Condi
Engineer – HGH Hybrid
Engineer – Mobile Turrets
Engineer – Static Discharge
Engineer – Triple Kit Condi
Engineer – Turret

Elementalist – Celestial Staff
Elementalist – D/F 4 Signet Condi
Elementalist – Dagger/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Focus
(not as many builds as the warrior and engi but they are still superior at everything)

As stated by metabattle.com “this build is in the current in-game meta”
Why is everyone else left in the dust?

The simple fact that you actually believe all of these builds are even remotely “meta” demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Everyone else is left in the dust simply because players like you havn’t added the builds for other professions to the site. You do understand that it is players like you who put those builds there on the site right?

Sandrox.9524:

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Each one of these builds to a greater or lesser degree relies upon death shroud. There engineer builds that don’t rely on toolbelt, warrior builds that rely on burst, thief builds that don’t require stealth or steal etc etc..necromancer relys heavily on death shroud because it is the make shift, one size fits all for everything that it lacks. It is akin to going into your tool shed and throwing everything away and just having duck tape and super clue..nio matter what you do, it will always come back to those limited options. It makes necromancer stale and repetitive to play.

gw2: death shroud consumer
gw1: anti-melee
hex overload
melee support (iway)
minion master
energy battery
conditionstacker
e-denial
shut down (via spoil victor etc)

the previous offering had players create multiple roles and builds. The current offering just see’s players horde and drain death shroud in a rinse-repeat cycle.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

Where is the variety?

Necromancer has got to be the one class that has most un-used skills/traits. I find myself getting countered by most builds in the game. A condi necro is really only good at countering engis without condi removal and thieves. Power necro is a joke, its one of the all-or-nothing builds that are extremely difficult to sustain yourself. Every other class has a better source of sustain while rolling berserker. Lich form you say? Yeah blind/dodge/invul etc.

Anyways its not just necros, a lot of other classes have useless builds/traits.

What is the goal of arena net?
Are you trying to balance heavies with heavies, lights with lights, mediums with mediums? You’re doing a terrible job if that is the goal.

Let’s take a look at these three classes on metabattle: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior.

Conquest Builds
Warrior – Axe/Longbow
Warrior – Axe/Wh Longbow
Warrior – Banner Bunker
Warrior – GS/Longbow
Warrior – Hambow
Warrior – Hybrid Sword Warrior
Warrior – Mace/Sword Lb Condition
Warrior – Shout Support

Conquest Builds
Engineer – Bomb/Grenade
Engineer – Celestial Rifle
Engineer – Decap
Engineer – Double Kit Condi
Engineer – HGH Hybrid
Engineer – Mobile Turrets
Engineer – Static Discharge
Engineer – Triple Kit Condi
Engineer – Turret

Elementalist – Celestial Staff
Elementalist – D/F 4 Signet Condi
Elementalist – Dagger/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Focus
(not as many builds as the warrior and engi but they are still superior at everything)

As stated by metabattle.com “this build is in the current in-game meta”
Why is everyone else left in the dust?

The simple fact that you actually believe all of these builds are even remotely “meta” demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Everyone else is left in the dust simply because players like you havn’t added the builds for other professions to the site. You do understand that it is players like you who put those builds their right?

Yes..and those builds are put through trials. You can’t just slap a build on there and call it meta. Evidently most of those builds come from when they are displayed in high tier play such as tournaments, and are discarded when the “in-game metas” outrun said build.

I never stated that they are all “GREAT” metas, as metabattle ranks the effectiveness of these builds.
Please provide factual information when you post to this forum, rather than flaming.

coglin.1867:

Jelzouki.4128:

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

No it doesn’t. What thief lacks, is thief players willing to play anything outside of stealth spam builds. Similarly Necro has a fair bit of diversity. You simply claim they do not. (See, I can claim my opinion as if it were fact, as easy as you can)

I can agree that some of the necromancers could use both trait line changes (changing some traits from one line to another), as well as trait changes. Then again, this can be said for every profession.

As I see it, the problem of build diversity is as much the players as anything else. As for example. Go to individual professional sub forums. When players start a new profession, they go to its corresponding sub forum, and ask for the meta builds. Instead of playing and experimenting with the profession to see what they find fun or what works for them. We have seen entire “metas” change between updates, with literally no changes added in game, simply because 2 high end PvP teams made a change. One team lost a player, and the other changed a build to adjust for the changed play in the first team. Viola, all of the sudden we had two build that were not “meta” that then were. The second problem, is that everyone wants to point fingers to demand changes to what would work for their build, regardless of what is fair, balanced, or who they screw over. Again, this is a player problem. Then conflicting opinions bash the devs and make post attacking Anet for what ever choice they do make.

No one is simply going to run a build that isn’t effective. When you claim there is build diversity, you don’t seem to understand that using an ineffective build is useless and leads to the demise of you and your team in tpvp. There is a reason why so many top tier teams do NOT run necromancer in there team composition. Now you’re going to name some teams that run necromancer and claim that I base my builds and base the skill level of a build off of high tier play, when that is simply not the case. It is just proof that fully backs my argument.

Jelzouki.4128:

coglin.1867:

Jelzouki.4128:

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

No it doesn’t. What thief lacks, is thief players willing to play anything outside of stealth spam builds. Similarly Necro has a fair bit of diversity. You simply claim they do not. (See, I can claim my opinion as if it were fact, as easy as you can)

I can agree that some of the necromancers could use both trait line changes (changing some traits from one line to another), as well as trait changes. Then again, this can be said for every profession.

As I see it, the problem of build diversity is as much the players as anything else. As for example. Go to individual professional sub forums. When players start a new profession, they go to its corresponding sub forum, and ask for the meta builds. Instead of playing and experimenting with the profession to see what they find fun or what works for them. We have seen entire “metas” change between updates, with literally no changes added in game, simply because 2 high end PvP teams made a change. One team lost a player, and the other changed a build to adjust for the changed play in the first team. Viola, all of the sudden we had two build that were not “meta” that then were. The second problem, is that everyone wants to point fingers to demand changes to what would work for their build, regardless of what is fair, balanced, or who they screw over. Again, this is a player problem. Then conflicting opinions bash the devs and make post attacking Anet for what ever choice they do make.

No one is simply going to run a build that isn’t effective. When you claim there is build diversity, you don’t seem to understand that using an ineffective build is useless and leads to the demise of you and your team in tpvp. There is a reason why so many top tier teams do NOT run necromancer in there team composition. Now you’re going to name some teams that run necromancer and claim that I base my builds and base the skill level of a build off of high tier play, when that is simply not the case. It is just proof that fully backs my argument.

one of the two best teams in NA and probably the whole game runs necro.

There are alot of necros complaining lately which in find crazy we seem to be in one of the best spots I’ve seen, I mean I should probably just shut up let the community whine and hopefully I can get an undeserved buff lol.

We should totally revert dumbfire.

Jelzouki.4128:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

Where is the variety?

Necromancer has got to be the one class that has most un-used skills/traits. I find myself getting countered by most builds in the game. A condi necro is really only good at countering engis without condi removal and thieves. Power necro is a joke, its one of the all-or-nothing builds that are extremely difficult to sustain yourself. Every other class has a better source of sustain while rolling berserker. Lich form you say? Yeah blind/dodge/invul etc.

Anyways its not just necros, a lot of other classes have useless builds/traits.

What is the goal of arena net?
Are you trying to balance heavies with heavies, lights with lights, mediums with mediums? You’re doing a terrible job if that is the goal.

Let’s take a look at these three classes on metabattle: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior.

Conquest Builds
Warrior – Axe/Longbow
Warrior – Axe/Wh Longbow
Warrior – Banner Bunker
Warrior – GS/Longbow
Warrior – Hambow
Warrior – Hybrid Sword Warrior
Warrior – Mace/Sword Lb Condition
Warrior – Shout Support

Conquest Builds
Engineer – Bomb/Grenade
Engineer – Celestial Rifle
Engineer – Decap
Engineer – Double Kit Condi
Engineer – HGH Hybrid
Engineer – Mobile Turrets
Engineer – Static Discharge
Engineer – Triple Kit Condi
Engineer – Turret

Elementalist – Celestial Staff
Elementalist – D/F 4 Signet Condi
Elementalist – Dagger/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Focus
(not as many builds as the warrior and engi but they are still superior at everything)

As stated by metabattle.com “this build is in the current in-game meta”
Why is everyone else left in the dust?

The simple fact that you actually believe all of these builds are even remotely “meta” demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Everyone else is left in the dust simply because players like you havn’t added the builds for other professions to the site. You do understand that it is players like you who put those builds their right?

Yes..and those builds are put through trials. You can’t just slap a build on there and call it meta. Evidently most of those builds come from when they are displayed in high tier play such as tournaments, and are discarded when the “in-game metas” outrun said build.

I never stated that they are all “GREAT” metas, as metabattle ranks the effectiveness of these builds.
Please provide factual information when you post to this forum, rather than flaming.

LMAO. you can’t just slap a build up there and call it “meta”……………………You absolutely can. Anyone can sign onto that site and put any build they want, call it anything they want. The same goes for the GW2 Wiki. Any random person can log onto the wiki and put false information on there. I know, I fix troll addition in my maintaining of aspects of the GW2 wiki…………….

You sem confused, I am not flaming, I am offering you facts. You are attacking me out of your own lack of knowledge on the matter.

Example: If you think an Engineer HgH build is meta, you should be ashamed of yourself

Turret build as meta? LMAO, it is an extremely sub par build. Because it is popular for casual play in solo q doesn’t define it is “meta”. A popular, yet totally uneffective build is by no means “meta” in my eyes.

You really think SD builds are meta?

These are just your misinformation on engineers, I have yet to go into other professions. Mind finding me a recent tournament in which anyone who won a match used a turret build, static discharge build, or HgH build please?

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” – Harlan Ellison

I didn’t read this entire thread previously. I never realized until now that the OP was misinformed and claiming all of those builds were “meta”.

Op as I see your denying reasonable arguments, I have to say, in the case of an MMO, I do not think “meta” means what you think it means.

I assure you, a great many of those builds are not meta now.

Many were never ever meta.

Some may have been meta over a year and a half ago.

coglin.1867:

Jelzouki.4128:

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

No it doesn’t. What thief lacks, is thief players willing to play anything outside of stealth spam builds. Similarly Necro has a fair bit of diversity. You simply claim they do not. (See, I can claim my opinion as if it were fact, as easy as you can)

I can agree that some of the necromancers could use both trait line changes (changing some traits from one line to another), as well as trait changes. Then again, this can be said for every profession.

As I see it, the problem of build diversity is as much the players as anything else. As for example. Go to individual professional sub forums. When players start a new profession, they go to its corresponding sub forum, and ask for the meta builds. Instead of playing and experimenting with the profession to see what they find fun or what works for them. We have seen entire “metas” change between updates, with literally no changes added in game, simply because 2 high end PvP teams made a change. One team lost a player, and the other changed a build to adjust for the changed play in the first team. Viola, all of the sudden we had two build that were not “meta” that then were. The second problem, is that everyone wants to point fingers to demand changes to what would work for their build, regardless of what is fair, balanced, or who they screw over. Again, this is a player problem. Then conflicting opinions bash the devs and make post attacking Anet for what ever choice they do make.

The only different,that you claimed a very wrong,misguided opnion.thief have 1 build to every weapon set,as you can see that if you ask for thief build,it will say I use d/p,or I use S/D(most commons ones),the stealth thing is really dosnt matter cause it is not viable at tpvp in long shot.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Sandrox.9524:

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Each one of these builds to a greater or lesser degree relies upon death shroud. There engineer builds that don’t rely on toolbelt, warrior builds that rely on burst, thief builds that don’t require stealth or steal etc etc..necromancer relys heavily on death shroud because it is the make shift, one size fits all for everything that it lacks. It is akin to going into your tool shed and throwing everything away and just having duck tape and super clue..nio matter what you do, it will always come back to those limited options. It makes necromancer stale and repetitive to play.

gw2: death shroud consumer
gw1: anti-melee
hex overload
melee support (iway)
minion master
energy battery
conditionstacker
e-denial
shut down (via spoil victor etc)

the previous offering had players create multiple roles and builds. The current offering just see’s players horde and drain death shroud in a rinse-repeat cycle.

Thief dosnt rely on either stealth and steal !?!?!
Mesmer who dosnt rely on clones?!
Engineer who uses only his weapon skills?
Warrior who dosnt use his burst skill/adrenalin for advantage?!

Bold statement,I would like you to prove it cause this is pure rubbish to me.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jelzouki.4128:

Where is the variety?

Necromancer has got to be the one class that has most un-used skills/traits. I find myself getting countered by most builds in the game. A condi necro is really only good at countering engis without condi removal and thieves. Power necro is a joke, its one of the all-or-nothing builds that are extremely difficult to sustain yourself. Every other class has a better source of sustain while rolling berserker. Lich form you say? Yeah blind/dodge/invul etc.

Anyways its not just necros, a lot of other classes have useless builds/traits.

What is the goal of arena net?
Are you trying to balance heavies with heavies, lights with lights, mediums with mediums? You’re doing a terrible job if that is the goal.

Let’s take a look at these three classes on metabattle: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior.

Conquest Builds
Warrior – Axe/Longbow
Warrior – Axe/Wh Longbow
Warrior – Banner Bunker
Warrior – GS/Longbow
Warrior – Hambow
Warrior – Hybrid Sword Warrior
Warrior – Mace/Sword Lb Condition
Warrior – Shout Support

Conquest Builds
Engineer – Bomb/Grenade
Engineer – Celestial Rifle
Engineer – Decap
Engineer – Double Kit Condi
Engineer – HGH Hybrid
Engineer – Mobile Turrets
Engineer – Static Discharge
Engineer – Triple Kit Condi
Engineer – Turret

Elementalist – Celestial Staff
Elementalist – D/F 4 Signet Condi
Elementalist – Dagger/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Dagger
Elementalist – Scepter/Focus
(not as many builds as the warrior and engi but they are still superior at everything)

As stated by metabattle.com “this build is in the current in-game meta”
Why is everyone else left in the dust?

The simple fact that you actually believe all of these builds are even remotely “meta” demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Everyone else is left in the dust simply because players like you havn’t added the builds for other professions to the site. You do understand that it is players like you who put those builds their right?

Yes..and those builds are put through trials. You can’t just slap a build on there and call it meta. Evidently most of those builds come from when they are displayed in high tier play such as tournaments, and are discarded when the “in-game metas” outrun said build.

I never stated that they are all “GREAT” metas, as metabattle ranks the effectiveness of these builds.
Please provide factual information when you post to this forum, rather than flaming.

LMAO. you can’t just slap a build up there and call it “meta”……………………You absolutely can. Anyone can sign onto that site and put any build they want, call it anything they want. The same goes for the GW2 Wiki. Any random person can log onto the wiki and put false information on there. I know, I fix troll addition in my maintaining of aspects of the GW2 wiki…………….

You sem confused, I am not flaming, I am offering you facts. You are attacking me out of your own lack of knowledge on the matter.

Example: If you think an Engineer HgH build is meta, you should be ashamed of yourself

Turret build as meta? LMAO, it is an extremely sub par build. Because it is popular for casual play in solo q doesn’t define it is “meta”. A popular, yet totally uneffective build is by no means “meta” in my eyes.

You really think SD builds are meta?

These are just your misinformation on engineers, I have yet to go into other professions. Mind finding me a recent tournament in which anyone who won a match used a turret build, static discharge build, or HgH build please?

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” – Harlan Ellison

I never once attacked you, but you are quite the keyboard warrior.