Guild Wars 2

effects from wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect

lets introduce a new effect, lets call it “suppressed” which stacks in intensity, and reduces most recent boon duration by number of suppressed stacks per second.

for example, if someone has 3 stacks of suppressed effect with 8 seconds duration, each second, the duration of their most recently applied boon would be reduced by 4 seconds instead of 1 second.

john, suffering from 3 stacks of the suppressed effect, activated dolyak signet and applied 10 seconds of stability to himself, if he is not suppressed, the stability would count down 10 9 8 7 … 1 but since he is suppressed, it goes 10 6 2 … expired !!!

so, do you get this idea of this new effect called suppressed?

discuss!

proposed professions to be able to apply the suppressed effect:
mesmers
- long sword auto attack chain skill 1 and skill 2
- long sword skill 2

necromancers
- dagger auto attack chain skill 1 and skill 2
- grandmaster trait Necromantic Corruption
“Minions suppresses foes when they attack.”
Suppressed: 3 s

Those classes are the least in need for a new condition if you know what I mean.

i do not understand how this condition works so i would say no.

Sagat.3285:

Those classes are the least in need for a new condition if you know what I mean.

but … but … people complain that, there is not enough boon removal options!

Sarrs.4831:

i do not understand how this condition works so i would say no.

hmmm would you let me try to explain it properly so you might reconsider?

tl; dr
it makes the last applied boon expire much faster.

hmmm i thought the example is being clear enough.
which part of it is confusing?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hmmm would you let me try to explain it properly so you might reconsider?

tl; dr
it makes the last applied boon expire much faster.

hmmm i thought the example is being clear enough.
which part of it is confusing?

Okay I’m reading through.

Condition’s design flaws:
1. The condition is self destructing. If you stack it too high, it self destructs. This is really really bad. No boon or condition in the game gets worse if you stack it too high, outside of endangering yourself in boon steal/condition transfer situations.

Seriously if you stack this to 25 it will almost immediately vanish from the target because it will eat boons more quickly than the target could possibly apply them. Stacking something as high as possible is supposed to be rewarding, not punishing.

2. The effect already exists in the game in another form, which is boon stripping. There are no conditions currently existing which are basically another game effect’s “little brother”; they all work differently. Even the cripple/immobilise/chill family has distinct differences between them that make them work very differently from one another, but this one basically just strips boons over time.

3. Condition stacking. The game can only handle so many conditions at the moment before it gets ridiculous. Consider an engineer; they can currently apply almost every single condition in the game in a burst and overload peoples’ abilities to cleanse conditions. How much worse would that get if they had access to another condition? We can already see this in play with Perplexity runes.

Some classes are intended to have strong access to very few conditions. Some classes are intended to have access to many conditions, but their access is limited by cooldowns or resources.

And the one thing relevant to your specific example:
Why do mesmers need more boonstrip? Sword is already one of their best weapons, if not the best.

i see. thanks for the comprehensive feedback!

1. what if it does not self destruct? it would actually cause new boons to expire the next second they are applied!

2. actually cripple and chill have some similarities, both reduce movement though chill reduces even more and increases recharge time. bleed, poison, burning all does damage over time. what is wrong with boon bleed reducing duration of last applied boon over time?

3. true, but that did not stop them from introducing torment condition. :p

well, yes, correct.
but people still complain about having too many boons and not enough boon stripping so why not?

Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

1. what if it does not self destruct? it would actually cause new boons to expire the next second they are applied!

Yes?… It would?… I don’t know where you’re going with this.

That might actually be kind of cool. Fighting a necro, they slowly stack up this condition on you over the course of a fight that severely hinders your boon application. Fits into the theme of a necro; you get weaker, they get stronger. I’d probably say that this is a stronger design. Of course, it steps on complaint 3’s toes, but let’s get to that when we get to it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

2. actually cripple and chill have some similarities, both reduce movement though chill reduces even more and increases recharge time. bleed, poison, burning all does damage over time. what is wrong with boon bleed reducing duration of last applied boon over time?

They have similarities, but they are not another effect’s baby version. You could make a case for Cripple, but that’s counterbalanced by Chill being an incredibly strong and relatively infrequent effect, while Cripple just goes all over the place. Chill is also primarily focused on its inhibiting effect, while Cripple is focused on its snaring effect.

Burning and Bleeding have key differences which greatly affect how they math out. Poison is first and foremost a utility condition, not a damaging one.

As I noted above I think it would be stronger if it didn’t self destruct. If that were the case it might address this, because it’s no longer a baby boon strip but boon suppression.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

3. true, but that did not stop them from introducing torment condition. :p

What they’ve done in the past is no justification for doing things in the future. Adding Torment might even be internally considered to be a mistake. There is a precedent for them adding a condition when they feel it’s necessary, yes, but first it needs to be proven that it is indeed necessary.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, yes, correct.
but people still complain about having too many boons and not enough boon stripping so why not?

Do they? I mean, I don’t pay much attention, so idk.

Even if they are, this is not necessarily calling for a new condition. Boon strips, boon corruptions, boon steals and boon punishes do that just fine without adding new mechanics.

Nay, would be confusing for a lot of people.

As much as i think mesmer sword needs a buff, the #1 chain is actually fine (damage could be higher but that’s it).

Also, remember that clones use the #1 attack, too, so 1-2 of them would probably render any short duration boons useless.

That aside, i don’t think we need a new condition. Regardless of what it does, it would make cleansing damaging conditions much harder, especially for classes without any spammable or full cleanse (e.g. mesmer).

NinjaEd,
true, but why do i still hear (read) people say (post) on these forums that, there is not enough boon removal options? T_T

Sarrs,
thanks again for the comprehensive feedback! i have made some adjustments! i have also renamed the condition accordingly when i saw you wrote “boon supression” so thanks again!

yes! that’s it! boon suppression! do you think it might work? well, let’s don’t care about the technical limitations first and assume that the guild wars 2 servers are strong enough to handle a bit more data eh? :p

yeah, kinda, though. from time to time i often see (read) people complain in these forums that certain professions can stack certain boons (might) too easily and there is not enough boon removal options to suppress them.

thanks again for your feedback Sarrs!

Holl,
aw, why not? i edited the original post, removed extra words.
is it better now and less confusing?

Iavra,
yes, but it only remove boons if the 3rd hit in the chain actually hits, with this new condition, as long as the 1st or 2nd hit connects, their boons will be suppressed.

also, it reduces the duration of the last applied boon, not all of the boons, it would slowly remove the boons one by one, though huge stacks of it would prevent new boons from being lasting more than one second.

I wouldn’t put it in as a condition, I’d keep it as an unremovable debuff to be used on a few select utility/elite skills, mainly on Mesmer/Necromancer (maybe thief?) that makes it so a target is unable to receive boons for X seconds. No stacking.

why not make it a condition that cancels the next boon.

for example your opponent has 1 stack of suppression and tryst to use a sigil of battle and instead of giving the might stacks it removes the suppression condition.

Bhawb,
but i want it to be more common!
more easily applied!

ukuni,
that may be too powerful? O_O

A unique idea, but how would one go about using it as skillful counterplay, especially if it’s thrown on the AA chain? Seems like it would be a bit spammy and success with it would come from luck rather than skill.

how bout:

acknowledge the condi meta is awful and that no class except possibly the necro has strong enough removal to counter the top spamming classes
dont add a new condition
reduce the amount of existing conditions that classes can apply (eg kill off perplexity, torment runes / sigil, or class restrict them to classes that naturally apply those conditions).
get rid of + and – duration condition food.

thats my suggestion.

NinjaEd.3946:

Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.

Are we playing the same game? Our options of boon removal are:
Sword auto chain, requires 3 hits for 1 boon.
Mind Stab, small aoe ground target, roots player during cast.
Arcane Thievery, dodgeable, blockable, blindable (yes, you can BLIND and AEGIS a skill that swaps boons and conditions), easily fails due to lack of LoS when LoS is clearly maintained.
Null Field, 5 pulses, 1 boon per pulse, average aoe size, can be walked out of, 15% uptime
Phantasmal Disenchanter, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, spawns close to target making it easy to destroy, does bounce so it’s nice, relatively low cooldown, takes up a utility slot
Shattered Concentration, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, kite-able.

And no, you’re not going to have more than 2 of these options in a game (3 if you’re running a shatter build without greatsword) with one being a utility and the other being the weapon or trait.

i’m… against this. we really don’t need a condition that reduces boon duration, it feels unecessary. the next step would be a boon that improves condition duration, which is also just silly.

I do agree, that this would be annoying. Not only is it another condition to balance and play against (or with, for that matter), but it’s essentially the chill of boons and, with boon ripping/removal/corruption, it’s not necessary. As interrupts don’t actually do anything significant to punish the player, I can see why Chill is still part of the game, especially since it’s hard to access.

Esplen.3940:

NinjaEd.3946:

Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.

Are we playing the same game? Our options of boon removal are:
Sword auto chain, requires 3 hits for 1 boon.
Mind Stab, small aoe ground target, roots player during cast.
Arcane Thievery, dodgeable, blockable, blindable (yes, you can BLIND and AEGIS a skill that swaps boons and conditions), easily fails due to lack of LoS when LoS is clearly maintained.
Null Field, 5 pulses, 1 boon per pulse, average aoe size, can be walked out of, 15% uptime
Phantasmal Disenchanter, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, spawns close to target making it easy to destroy, does bounce so it’s nice, relatively low cooldown, takes up a utility slot
Shattered Concentration, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, kite-able.

And no, you’re not going to have more than 2 of these options in a game (3 if you’re running a shatter build without greatsword) with one being a utility and the other being the weapon or trait.

So you’re counter argument is listing a bunch of boon removal options, and saying you can run a shatterer build to destroy them. So in other words, you want boon striping to be overly passive on Mesmer to the point where its all they do on any build?

Hmm…

My counter argument was that most mesmers (in PvE) only have access to two boon removals at any given point in time. Mix that with the high cooldowns they all have (bar Sword auto and Mind Stab which are both unreliable), we really don’t have that much.

Actually, iDisenchanter has a low cooldown but is not very useful since it’s spawned within 600 range of the opponent.

Running Shattered Concentration is the main way of getting a third boon removal in your build, but is also unreliable because shatters aren’t always guaranteed to hit, especially if you need that boon gone on demand. Additionally, you’re blowing an attack to remove a boon. And by attack, I mean one of your bursts (unless you do F2).

So my counter is that we don’t have much boon removal. Yes, I can run a build of Shattered Concentration, Sword + Greatsword, Arcane Thievery, Null Field, Phantasmal Disenchanter and I’ll do all of nothing for myself or my team. In fact, even that won’t be able to strip boons that well.

Esplen.3940:

My counter argument was that most mesmers (in PvE) only have access to two boon removals at any given point in time. Mix that with the high cooldowns they all have (bar Sword auto and Mind Stab which are both unreliable), we really don’t have that much.

Actually, iDisenchanter has a low cooldown but is not very useful since it’s spawned within 600 range of the opponent.

Running Shattered Concentration is the main way of getting a third boon removal in your build, but is also unreliable because shatters aren’t always guaranteed to hit, especially if you need that boon gone on demand. Additionally, you’re blowing an attack to remove a boon. And by attack, I mean one of your bursts (unless you do F2).

So my counter is that we don’t have much boon removal. Yes, I can run a build of Shattered Concentration, Sword + Greatsword, Arcane Thievery, Null Field, Phantasmal Disenchanter and I’ll do all of nothing for myself or my team. In fact, even that won’t be able to strip boons that well.

you must be playing a different game if two boon removals on average, with capacity to spec for more, and with a good amount of them being on weapon skills isn’t much.

half the classes don’t even have boon removal.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Esplen.3940:

My counter argument was that most mesmers (in PvE) only have access to two boon removals at any given point in time. Mix that with the high cooldowns they all have (bar Sword auto and Mind Stab which are both unreliable), we really don’t have that much.

Actually, iDisenchanter has a low cooldown but is not very useful since it’s spawned within 600 range of the opponent.

Running Shattered Concentration is the main way of getting a third boon removal in your build, but is also unreliable because shatters aren’t always guaranteed to hit, especially if you need that boon gone on demand. Additionally, you’re blowing an attack to remove a boon. And by attack, I mean one of your bursts (unless you do F2).

So my counter is that we don’t have much boon removal. Yes, I can run a build of Shattered Concentration, Sword + Greatsword, Arcane Thievery, Null Field, Phantasmal Disenchanter and I’ll do all of nothing for myself or my team. In fact, even that won’t be able to strip boons that well.

you must be playing a different game if two boon removals on average, with capacity to spec for more, and with a good amount of them being on weapon skills isn’t much.

half the classes don’t even have boon removal.

^^ He gets it.

mesmers have plenty of boon removal, we don’t need more
boon removal is more of a specialty, a way of getting on even footing with other classes that have the big boon generators, just like necros are able to counter the boon-rich classes by CORRUPTING

Just going to post this here too.

Why are you constantly proposing bad options for boon removal? In my opinion, Outside of PvE, condition spam is the strongest thing there is.

You’re proposing buffs to warrior, an already strong class which is arguably settling into a state of balance, and adding a NEW condition when there’s already more conditions than can ever be countered by condition removal in a balanced build.

Take engineers for example. They can’t remove conditions as is. They also don’t have many boons/sources of stability. Both of your changes would be super detrimental to that class. And that’s just one example.

All of your propositions aren’t thought out for the entire game.

Also the grumbling of the forums is almost inconsequential, so if you are hearing grumbling about boon removal (which I don’t see frequently at all, actually much less than I see grumblings about “war op” or “condi op”) then you can be sure it’s a very small percentage of players complaining.

Before any new Conditions get added, the current onces should receive first a complete redesign/rebalancing + merging to make up space for new Conditions.

Then on the other side its now time first to add a feew needed new Boons first and to make more use of Toxin to integrate it better into the overall game and integrate also Petrification more into the game as official condition and not as a kind of gimmick that only exists for 1 single Elite Skill – Basilisk Venom, just so that this skill lokks trustworthy, otherwise they could just take petrification completely out and just rename Basilisks and that Elite Skill, when there is no real petrification as an official condition in this game with a fittign own unique effect thats not just only a cheap copy of stun/daze >.>.

So from me an absolute clear NO to Suppression. There are completely other issues first with the condition system of GW2 which have to be solved first with much higher priorities, than to make the game balance with another new condition even more chaotic and reduce also the game performa, because so more conditions the game gets, so more suffers the game performance under the condition calculations that need to be made.

Thats why I also want ANet to reduce the amount of conditions through senseful merges so that the total amount of conditions doesn’t become more, than it is now.
—-

Example:

Poison + Weakness = Toxin. Stacks in Intensity now. Toxin becomes a stronger State of Poison
If you get poisoned more than 4x, Poison becomes Toxin and it can’t be cured anymore with Skilsl that cure only Poison.
When under Toxin, the Health Degenration is stronger, the Healing Reduction is increased from 33% to 40% and Endurance Regens 50% slower.
Weakness gets removed.

Blindness, gets changed. It doesn’t protect anymore 100% against a single hit, but instead has only a 80% Chance and protects against up to 2 hits now and makes Hits Glancing Striks that can’t crit and deal only half damage.
This way Blindness absorbs the other half of the removed Weakness.

Chill & Petrification = Effect Splitting
Chill loses its Movement Reduction over to Petrification.
Chill gains therefore the Effect, that decreases Boon Duration by its Duration Time.
So a 3S Chill lets you lose 3S of Duration of your current working Boons.
petrification therefore gets changed into a 66% Movement Speed Reduction, which slows down also your Attack Speed by 50% to be basically a counter against Quickness.
With this Counter, als Quickness Skills get their integrated minus effects lowered/removed. petrification becomes finalyl an integrated official condition by putting it to some of the Earth Elementalist Skills, to some ranger skills/pets ect.

Burning + Torment could get merged with keeping the duration stacking, that Burning should do exactly what Torment does. and add to it a Spreading Effect like the old GW1 Disease, that the burnign spreads over to nearby foes if they are in touch range
—-
Thats 2 obsolete Conditions , space that could be used maybe for some interestign new conditions in the future, like:

Apathy – Characters won’t receive the Stat Boosts under this condition from Banners, Signets, Buff Food ect. as logn this Condition is up. Stacks in Duration.

Demoralization – Hits against your Target have a Chance of to interrupt their Skills leading to longer Cooldown Times than normal if in that way gets a Skill interrupted.
Stacks in Intensity. More Stacks let the chance to interrupt increase to a Max of 25% at 25 Stacks.

At leasts thats what i would do with the current Conditions and reduce for better Balancing the Maximum Stacks for PvP and WvW from 25 down to 20 for both Boons as like Conditions and remove the Condition Cap for PvE and give Monsters better A.I to react better on super high condition amounts by giving them also more skills to remove conditions as also more resitances agaisnt conditions (not 100% immunity, just resistances that make certain conditions just lesser effective, while also giving weaknesses, that certain conditinos can be more effective, than others, like a creature beign weak towards poison/toxin, but resistant to burning for example.)

Mesmer here.

[Illusionary Disenchanter].

I don’t need another buff on Sword. I need buffs on Torch and Sceptre AA. Some reason to ever use those weapons.

Hayashi.3416:

Mesmer here.

[Illusionary Disenchanter].

I don’t need another buff on Sword. I need buffs on Torch and Sceptre AA. Some reason to ever use those weapons.

Sword doesn’t need a ‘buff’ it does desperately need a fix though.

it has been 2 months, but i have something new to say, have edited the original post much.

discuss please!

I +1 OP for giving that condition to Necromancers.

OR

on necromancer’s dagger auto attack add Remove Boon on 3rd chain skill.

P.S. – yeah, I know everyone love this idea. People just are shy.

Tao.5096:

I +1 OP for giving that condition to Necromancers.

OR

on necromancer’s dagger auto attack add Remove Boon on 3rd chain skill.

P.S. – yeah, I know everyone love this idea. People just are shy.

by the way, after the initial discussion (2 months ago) i decided to make this an “effect” and not condition. so it cannot be removed by condition removals.

if not, it would be very nice if necromancer’s dagger auto attack corrupts boon on the 3rd chain skill.

lets leave things the default way eh? as in

thieves: steal boons from opponents and give the boons to yourselves
mesmers: remove boons, boons vanished completely.
necromancers: corrupt boons and turns them into conditions

This suggestion uneccisarily convolutes an otherwise simple system. In my opinion, you are simply trying to out think common sense in terms of the system. It would be uneccisarily complicated to new and old players alike. Not to mention the weight it would put on back end systems to track it all. I see almost no benefit from this what so ever.

Esplen.3940:

NinjaEd.3946:

Mesmer has enough methods of destroying boons and more than enough methods of applying conditions. Although kind of unique, I say nay.

Are we playing the same game? Our options of boon removal are:
Sword auto chain, requires 3 hits for 1 boon.
Mind Stab, small aoe ground target, roots player during cast.
Arcane Thievery, dodgeable, blockable, blindable (yes, you can BLIND and AEGIS a skill that swaps boons and conditions), easily fails due to lack of LoS when LoS is clearly maintained.
Null Field, 5 pulses, 1 boon per pulse, average aoe size, can be walked out of, 15% uptime
Phantasmal Disenchanter, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, spawns close to target making it easy to destroy, does bounce so it’s nice, relatively low cooldown, takes up a utility slot
Shattered Concentration, dodgeable, aegis-able, blind-able, kite-able.

And no, you’re not going to have more than 2 of these options in a game (3 if you’re running a shatter build without greatsword) with one being a utility and the other being the weapon or trait.

How Ironic. That is a lot of Boon removal you are listing there.

Warriors, Rangers, Elementalist don’t have boon removal in skills or traits.

Guardians don’t have skills that removes boons. Only 1 unreliable trait.

Engineer has only 1 boon removal skill or up to 3 if engineers want to play a terrible build.

Only Necromancers can rival Mesmers through boon removal. That is if Necromancer has a auto-attack that removes boon.

Let’s give classes who do the best against boon classes and have the most boon removal even more boon removal!

Simon.3794:

Let’s give classes who do the best against boon classes and have the most boon removal even more boon removal!

yes, why not?

because every now and then, i am still hearing complaints about how might stacking is overpowered etc.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Simon.3794:

Let’s give classes who do the best against boon classes and have the most boon removal even more boon removal!

yes, why not?

because every now and then, i am still hearing complaints about how might stacking is overpowered etc.

Yes, because necro and mesmer can totally not strip might. while other classes can strip might by farting, so it must be so hard for necro and mesmer to go against might’ed enemies.

I present a cleaner version!

Curse – Outgoing and incoming Boon Duration is reduced by 2%. Stacks in intensity.

yolo swaggins.2570:

I present a cleaner version!

Curse – Outgoing and incoming Boon Duration is reduced by 2%. Stacks in intensity.

yes, the description certainly looks clean, you made me realize i have not gave suppressed a proper clean short description!

but, the name “curse” kinda errrr seems exclusive to necromancers though.

2% with 25 stacks would means 50%, effecting halving all boons given out or received from others.

hmmm …

then again, i’m just playing with myself here.
i dun think they (anet) will ever gonna implement any new effects into the game.

new condition torment was really kinda unexpected for me.
i dun think the community was asking for a new condition back then.

Didn’t read anything beyond the first post, so that’s all I’m responding to.

I don’t thing we need this, as we have some classes which have straight-up boon removal and boon conversion and boon stealing, usually those who need to, so to say, weaken the foe to gain equal footing. Other classes, on the other hand, were deemed strong naturally and didn’t need the boon removal, instead gaining the boon production. And all have access to boon removal if they went with a Sigil of Nullification, which will give them something which they otherwise wouldn’t have had on their class.

Also, remember that not all classes are supposed to be able to do the same things, but can all do the same “role” and deal with different situations differently. For instance, the support a guardian gives[Lots of healing and stuff] is different from that of warriors[banners buffing stats]. Just as this is, boon removal is another kind of control/support which certain classes excel at.

Mesmers and Necros are currently kings of removal, however it is still possible for thieves[Boon Steal], engineers[Elixirs], and guardians[with an ICD]. Boon removal is not lacking, it is simply people not wanting to spec for the useful ability. And if they’re a class without boon removals, there’s SoNullification, however it is unlikely they should need it if they are the classes deemed good without boon removal, as they’re likely able to produce the amount of boons they want whether they’re stripped of them or simply to match the enemy, or just don’t need them in the first place.

yolo swaggins.2570:

I present a cleaner version!

Curse – Outgoing and incoming Boon Duration is reduced by 2%. Stacks in intensity.

Better idea, but worse name. Should still be called suppressed. It also wouldn’t have to be limited to Necromancers or Mesmers in this way either (though neither class needs any help dealing with boons)

If traits get added to account for a new condition like this, Rangers could get a trait called Suppressive Fire, which could make all of their ranged attacks have a chance to get a non-damaging AoE aspect that applies this condition to enemies wherever the arrow travels. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_fire)[Rangers are the only class with the equivalent of a machine gun right now…]{and not that Rangers need anymore help with their longbow right now, it just sort of makes sense}

Thieves or Engineers could apply it when they apply another condition, Warriors could apply several stacks when they stun/daze an enemy, which even if stun/daze doesn’t work on an enemy with stability, it starts to eat into that duration a little bit. Its not quite boon removal, but it helps in weakening an enemy, just like vulnerability would.

What about Null or Suppression? Suppressed doesn’t ring.