Guild Wars 2

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

tPvP or hotjoin? I’d believe the latter. You can generally faceroll with anything in hotjoin.

Tell you what, if you’re so confident that it’s not the spec that needs the survivability, but the player, try out a Rampager’s build for a while and let me know how you do. There’s a reason that gearset is practically unused.

You can believe w/e you want bud.

You do hit the nail on the head here though. There is a reason Rampager is not used. It’s because condition specs don’t need power or precision to do well.

Depending on the class, I invest into vitality as far as nessecary to not get instaganked when up against glass cannons. Other then that, all rabid. I get insane condition pressure on my enemy with such a set-up (Dire+Rabid).

Now try using Knights+Soldiers. You will fail.

The reason Rampagers is not used is because it provides no survivability for condition builds and a useless stat for power builds.

Condition builds do need Precision. It’s necessary to proc traits and sigils. They can also make use of Power to help against objects or DS eles. Power isn’t as necessary, but condition builds are all dealing some direct damage anyway, so it’s not a wasted stat. Again, if you’re so confident that it’s the players who need the extra survivability, run a Rampager’s gear condition build. I’ll give you a hint to the outcome: you’ll get wrecked.

And I have done Knights or Soldier’s. They work quite well in the right builds, primarily on necros who can’t Power burst anyway and have other ways of making up for deficient stats (such as Death Perception on a Soldier’s build).

What does “make condis mitigatable” mean? They already are, with cleanses and several runes/food. The condition cap is mostly a technical issue anyway, since the game keeps track over every stack from every player(so if you gain might while the bleed is ticking, your bleeds get stronger ticks but bleeds from other players do not). I don’t think this will be easy to implement without changing the whole system.

And having armour affect condis is a bad idea, it would make bunker/celestial builds even harder to kill. It has nothing to do with the cap anyway, I doubt anyone ever had 25 bleeds stacked on them in sPvP anyway without dying right away, that’s nonsense.

^ good point. Bunker are already rampant and condi classes are rare in tpvp. Would really shift things for the worse if that change was made.

I think that conditions are a little to prevelant in PvP right now. It is accepted that to have a viable build for PvP you need to bring tons of cleanses with you. While I think having that as an option is fine I would like for other builds to have some more viability. Conditions are fun to play with but they are also suppressing a lot of possible builds.

I suggest making protection also apply to conditions. It would help a lot of classes and ease the potency of conditions without nerfing them directly.

If they rework con damage so it can crit would be great as you cant stay in tank gear for max condition damage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The reason Rampagers is not used is because it provides no survivability for condition builds and a useless stat for power builds.

Condition builds do need Precision. It’s necessary to proc traits and sigils.

Tell this to a P/D thief.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

They can also make use of Power to help against objects or DS eles. Power isn’t as necessary, but condition builds are all dealing some direct damage anyway, so it’s not a wasted stat.

It is a wasted stat, because other stats would add more. Even precision would be better. A few critical hits every now and then will be more then enough against DS eles.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Again, if you’re so confident that it’s the players who need the extra survivability, run a Rampager’s gear condition build. I’ll give you a hint to the outcome: you’ll get wrecked.

I am confident about this for 99% of the players doing these specs.

And I won’t get wrecked on Rampager more then I get wrecked on zerker gear.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And I have done Knights or Soldier’s. They work quite well in the right builds, primarily on necros who can’t Power burst anyway and have other ways of making up for deficient stats (such as Death Perception on a Soldier’s build).

You can not seriously argue that Soldier’s gear gives you sufficient damage to kill anything right?

Fiorrello.8126:

I think that conditions are a little to prevelant in PvP right now. It is accepted that to have a viable build for PvP you need to bring tons of cleanses with you. While I think having that as an option is fine I would like for other builds to have some more viability. Conditions are fun to play with but they are also suppressing a lot of possible builds.

I suggest making protection also apply to conditions. It would help a lot of classes and ease the potency of conditions without nerfing them directly.

No, no they are not. I have no idea where this is coming from, maybe wvw, but most builds in the meta are not condition builds – most are celestial/hybrid. The only classes with pure condition builds are engi and necro, and even then they also have builds that are hybrid/power based respectively.

Cygnus.6903:

You can not seriously argue that Soldier’s gear gives you sufficient damage to kill anything right?

Sure it does, soldier hambow can kill plenty. Rom was even running a soldier axe eviscerate build and it worked well.
In general, I think someone did the calculations and I remember them saying that a soldier and a zerker trading hits soldier will eventually win.

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The reason Rampagers is not used is because it provides no survivability for condition builds and a useless stat for power builds.

Condition builds do need Precision. It’s necessary to proc traits and sigils.

Tell this to a P/D thief.

P/D thief is the exception to proccing traits, but not sigils. It’s still useful for them.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

They can also make use of Power to help against objects or DS eles. Power isn’t as necessary, but condition builds are all dealing some direct damage anyway, so it’s not a wasted stat.

It is a wasted stat, because other stats would add more. Even precision would be better. A few critical hits every now and then will be more then enough against DS eles.

No, not wasted. Just not necessarily desirable. You still get some extra damage out of it. There’s a reason the argument “Carrion or Rabid” is actually a rather good discussion.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Again, if you’re so confident that it’s the players who need the extra survivability, run a Rampager’s gear condition build. I’ll give you a hint to the outcome: you’ll get wrecked.

I am confident about this for 99% of the players doing these specs.

And I won’t get wrecked on Rampager more then I get wrecked on zerker gear.

Sure you would. You have the same survivability, but without the damage output.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And I have done Knights or Soldier’s. They work quite well in the right builds, primarily on necros who can’t Power burst anyway and have other ways of making up for deficient stats (such as Death Perception on a Soldier’s build).

You can not seriously argue that Soldier’s gear gives you sufficient damage to kill anything right?

Quite a few builds do so. Especially those that can might-stack and get good Fury uptime. Eles, Warriors, Guardians, and Necros are all capable of that. Engineers can stack Might as well, but Fury is a little less common on them.