Guild Wars 2

I don’t think foods should be usable in WvW. They only seem to add more balancing issues and power creep which tend to fall on changing classes instead of the foods themselves.

Some specific foods, such as condition duration boosters or negators, can single handedly make a spec too powerful, such as anti-condition warriors (they can become virtually immune to cripple, chilled, and immobilize) or, in the case of a cd booster, many condition based builds.

I think a simple fix to many of these problems would just be to remove foods from WvW in their entirety. It may cause a slight decrease in build variety, but overall, it’s worth it.

I agree, but I doubt anyone else will. It’s become a part of WvW and if it’s changed, a lot of people will get upset.

Ya food is annoying in wvw. It feels like a ‘tax’ because if you’re fighting certain condi classes, you need certain foods to counteract koi cakes.

I wouldn’t be opposed. It also reduces power creep from extra stats.

Food is fine. Stop whining. If your going to start an aimless complaint thread, at least have the decency to post a thorough explanation and demonstrate some applicable math to support your argument.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Food is fine. Stop whining. If your going to start an aimless complaint thread, at least have the decency to post a thorough explanation and demonstrate some applicable math to support your argument.

You dont need to be so hostile to peoples suggestions. It’s enough to just say you disagree without attacking someone for making a perfectly valid suggestion.

Anyway… I think it’s a pretty decent suggestion. I dont think food adds a great deal to the WvW experience, it was clearly never balanced properly which is why there are inconsistancies between the boosts different foods give and why it was never put in PvP.

I agree, food makes so many builds OP on all classes and makes for a balancing nightmare.

Wvw is not suppose to be balance. Uplevel vs full ascended, guard stack, 3 bl buffs. Spvp is were you go for a mostly balance fight. This does not happen in wvw.

Honestly I don’t really care, but what other purpose would food be used for? I don’t think I even use food outside WvW.

Why would an entire tradeskill be declared meaningless for an entire game mode?

Why not… you know… balance the food instead? I mean let’s be honest, this is about the +40% and -40% food. Reduce the to 10% each for parity, and all done and over with.

I absolutely agree with this and I’m suggesting /demandign this change for WvW already way longer than the OP.

Buff Food/items need to become finally PvE Only Items, just like they worked so in GW1.
Then would be WvW finally a big step nearer towards the best kind of possible “Balance” you can speak of in terms of WvW and alot of massively overpowered builds that are only so extremely OP due to the food buffs making either conditions ridiculopusly OP, condi cleans ridiculously op or stat wise the character ridiculously OP dealing insane high damage numbers, havign to insane good self healings ect. pp and that with other helf of gemstore items even for 12 hours long or theoretically forever, if you are willing to keep up using those duration enhancers permanently, what is a significant advantage over players, which don’’t use them – literally turning this into a small pay2win-scenario where you can pay for a permanent advantage over other players for WvW.

You can at this point naturally discuss the relevancy from this, but for me just counts only the principle, thats its possible, regardless of how big the relevancy is for the issue for each individual player based around this in WvW.

I already can’t count it anymore, how much battles I would have won barely for 100% sure, if my opponent wouldn’t have had used buff food and a buff stone/oil/crystal to boost their builds into total overpoweredness for either superior conditions, superior condition duration reduction or superior self heal effects/max damage, like permanent extra healings per second, consenquent heals on critical hits ect. pp. or having so high critical hit rates/ crit damage stats, so yxou could easily one hit specific foes using the right class with the right skills, like Kill Shot or Back Stab

There’s quite a few foods that are completely useless for PvE and are only used for WvW. This would be a terrible change and cause those foods to never be used.

Storie,

I guess you seem to have never thought about the total easy fact, that Anet can change food effects to different new effects whenever they want, if its needed, do you ??? >.>

Foods absolutely unbalance WvW, but that’s just it, Anet has even said at the start of the game WvW isn’t supposed to be balanced, it’s supposed to be reasonable (which it is) and nothing should be drastically better than other options (see crit chance flamethrower pre life steal food nerf), but it’s not meant to be a super even playing field like sPvP is, it’s the “casual”/fun world PvP.

I think if foods were removed it’d eliminate a lot of the fun of WvW and I hardly even use foods.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Food is fine. Stop whining. If your going to start an aimless complaint thread, at least have the decency to post a thorough explanation and demonstrate some applicable math to support your argument.

There doesn’t need to be a thorough explanation. Anyone who has spent a considerable amount of time in WvW will immediately understand what I’m talking about. And I know you do too.

This topic has been talked about several times before. I’m just trying to keep it alive in hopes a-net might change it.

After all, the less a topic is discussed, the more it falls off of a-net’s radar.

Keep food in wvw. It adds a lot of build variety.

Bombsaway.7198:

Keep food in wvw. It adds a lot of build variety.

This really isn’t true, at all.

Very few foods are necessary to a build. The majority of them simply complement a build.

The only build I can think of which requires a food is total anti-condition warrior. But I’m not making this thread for warriors, I’m making it for all classes and specs.

Certain foods really help a build (such as a regen rangers and mango pies) but do not nullify the purpose of a build if it isn’t used.

But even in both those cases, the builds would still be highly effective without the food.

Partially agree. people who have food (especially +/-Condi) have a huge advantage over those that don’t. not because of skill, but because they happened to have money.

that said, the same can be said for say, ascended gear.

along with that, some foods (e.g. condi foods) are only as expensive as they are because of the popularity in wvw.

I think a better idea would be to severely nerf foods, or balance them. somehow. I don’t want to dish out 1g an hour to be able to play competetively

Orpheal.8263:

Storie,

I guess you seem to have never thought about the total easy fact, that Anet can change food effects to different new effects whenever they want, if its needed, do you ??? >.>

And what would be the point in redoing half (or more) of all the foods in the game?

A lot of builds – no, I’m not talking about condis – in WvW are built with certain food in mind. Taking that away from everyone just because people don’t like condi food is a pretty massive overreaction.

Let’s be real. The issue people have is with +/- condi duration food. Ask them to nerf that, if you want, but other foods don’t unbalance WvW.

They added more + duration food in the newest Living Story. I doubt they’re going to be changing anything up with the current “meta” food situation anytime soon.

My only problem with foods and stones is the price. Only wvw players must to spend money to play while the income is far less as from other gameplays

Theres more food, than only the condition duration changing foods, that can make up for quite a difference in combat, like also the regeneration, the life steal, the all stat boost and that combine with fittign to your class stones/oils/crystals.

Buff food alone can make up for only a tiny compensatable difference, but together with stones/oils/crystals, shrine-all stat buffs and maximum WvW ability stat boosts + max stacks from sigil of bloodlust for example, you can boost your builds to somewhat of OP-ness, that its nearly impossible to be competitive against that on an equal gaming skill level of 2 opposing players, when you don’t have all this, while your enemy has all this, unless you can successfuly outplay your enemy so much, that all these buffs don’t help.

WvW doesn’t need buff food, it has already the shrines and WvW ability stat buffs.
I propose Anet should remove all buff food out of WvW and therefore improve the Shrine System to make the shrines more important. Praying to the shrines should allow the Player to choose out one unique buff effect, like we were able to do that in GW1, where we could choose out a buff effect from the gods when we prayed at their shrines and if the shrine gets taken, players lose those buffs again, so that theres also a way how you can forcefully remove those buffs again from your foes.
Thats the problem with buff food/stones ect. theres no way how you can remove it from your foes.
The WvW abilities are simple, just kill your foe and they will lose those buffs, until they kill their next guard npcs … but buff foo/stones ect. aren#t removeable and that makes them a kind of small pay2Win items, because people which can’t permanently afford these items to stay competitive, will be in disadvantage and can’t even do anythign agaisnt that on the battlefields, killing those players won’t do anything

Plus I’ve also not menationed yet the regional Guild Stat Boosts, if a guild claimed a keep and build up there all kinds of stat boosts which also add to all of the other boosts you can get in WvW. WvW has way too many options to boost players into total ridiculous OPness and you just can’t always expect from WvW, that just simply the numbers of players will compansate so easily for these kind of power differencies between two sides.

The outmanned bonus is laughable and no help at all to come back effectively or be any competitive agaisnt an overwhelming side, which has all the boosts mentioned above, while you have not, nor at that mometn the masses of players on your side to compensate for that lack of power …

Soilder.3607:

I don’t think foods should be usable in WvW. They only seem to add more balancing issues which tend to fall on changing classes instead of the foods themselves.

The notion of balance in WvW is strange to me. I was solo roaming yesterday, I ran into an enemy party, and do you know what — they stomped me.

WvW is not a balanced arena, I like not knowing what’s behind the next bend and I head for the Frozen Maw if I want something predictable.

Now… this is OT, but I would love to see balanced leaderboards (points per played server hour or something).

nice idea to make cook more meaningless!

anyway, i rly dont want food to be gone from wvw, its fun to have the 20% extra boon duration , ofc its unbalancing etc, but wvw never has been balanced

dancingmonkey.4902:

have the decency to post a thorough explanation and demonstrate some applicable math to support your argument.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Food is fine.

mmmmmmmmmmmh

Anyway, i support no food in wvw simpley because its pay(gold)to win, and the wasted bag space, more icons on the buff bar, having to refresh it and having to pay for it annoys me.
But i dont care that much at all.

All they need to do is balance the foods… -40% or +40% condition duration is way too much, what were you thinking Arenanet O_o

No

Carighan.6758:

Why would an entire tradeskill be declared meaningless for an entire game mode?

Why not… you know… balance the food instead?

Removing it completely is much easier. That’s the main reason to favor removal over balance. Also, removing food reduces about 170 stat points from power creep in WvW.

Exedore.6320:

Removing it completely is much easier. That’s the main reason to favor removal over balance. Also, removing food reduces about 170 stat points from power creep in WvW.

True, but weapon- or armoursmithing isn’t removed from WvW either. There’s no real case upon which you could say that armour contributes less power to WvW than food does.

There are a handful of foods which provide comparatively too-strong effects, chief of which the +40% and -40% condition duration ones (of which I have myself said time and time again to reduce them to 10% each, as given in parity by the trait lines).
Other than that, what differences does it make whether you get your 100 power from a crafted head piece or a piece of cake you eat, and both are supported by a tradeskill system?

I might as well argue that one jewelry slot should be removed to combat power creep in WvW. At least there’d be plenty left so Jewelry doesn’t feel redundant.

I don’t really see where removal is easier, sorry. Not with the minimal amount of food items posing a problem as is.

Carighan.6758:

There are a handful of foods which provide comparatively too-strong effects, chief of which the +40% and -40% condition duration ones (of which I have myself said time and time again to reduce them to 10% each, as given in parity by the trait lines).
Other than that, what differences does it make whether you get your 100 power from a crafted head piece or a piece of cake you eat, and both are supported by a tradeskill system?

Did you do any math on this before you made this statement? It has already been proven that 100 power adds more damage to a soldiers gear build then +40% condition duration adds to a dire build in 7/8 profession, with necromancer being the only possible exception.

I would much rather they make game changes on facts, then to do so because 20 people out of the millions that bought this game, feel that something would change, while offering no discussed logical reasoning or actual facts to the matter.

To be honest I don’t really see a gamebreaking advantage with a person with food vs a person without food. However foods like -40% condi duration should be balanced.

On the other hand though, why complain about food so much? It’s not essential, sure it’s nice to have, but it really isn’t gamebreaking. Why don’t you just buy some food yourself? It’s not that hard… If you really want to be “equal” with other players.

i’d go the other way and make food available everywhere. it’s already available in 2/3rds of the game why shouldn’t it be in the last 1/3rd?

just make it a permanent selectable buff in sPVP instead of an itemised consumable.

Errrr… No. Why? Because I feel like WvW should be all or nothing stat-wise. It’s supposed to be unbalanced, that’s part of the fun. PvP is where everything is strictly controlled and “balanced”.

Besides, if we’re going to get rid of food in WvW, I vote to get rid of Ascended/Legendary equipment — it gives power creep and it takes forever to get. Pay2Win. Wait… thinking about it now, I say no to Exotics! Those cost money and have too many stat points! And how about those Rares and Masterworks! Pshh, too good and contributes to power creep too. Get rid of them. AND those trait things? They add stat points also, so those should be denied because… power creep and balance, yeah! AND those other [insert aspect that adds stat points], etc. etc. etc.

See where I’m going with this? Keep food in WvW, and balancing the foods themselves should be your priority.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Carighan.6758:

There are a handful of foods which provide comparatively too-strong effects, chief of which the +40% and -40% condition duration ones (of which I have myself said time and time again to reduce them to 10% each, as given in parity by the trait lines).
Other than that, what differences does it make whether you get your 100 power from a crafted head piece or a piece of cake you eat, and both are supported by a tradeskill system?

Did you do any math on this before you made this statement? It has already been proven that 100 power adds more damage to a soldiers gear build then +40% condition duration adds to a dire build in 7/8 profession, with necromancer being the only possible exception.

I would much rather they make game changes on facts, then to do so because 20 people out of the millions that bought this game, feel that something would change, while offering no discussed logical reasoning or actual facts to the matter.

I would love to see the research that came to that conclusion.

Rabbitstew.2756:

Besides, if we’re going to get rid of food in WvW, I vote to get rid of Ascended/Legendary equipment — it gives power creep and it takes forever to get. Pay2Win. Wait… thinking about it now, I say no to Exotics! Those cost money and have too many stat points! And how about those Rares and Masterworks! … See where I’m going with this?

Yes, I see your argument, but it is flawed: The game is balanced around a game mode with exotic stats without food. Any deviation from that breaks the balance. But yes, if the food stays, the condi foods should at least be balanced: 40% condi duration is worth 400 stat points and not 100.

Btw: I’m still against the power creep indroduced with Ascended, but that will also never change back…

Why balance for something that’s not meant to be balance ?

pmnt.4067:

Rabbitstew.2756:

Besides, if we’re going to get rid of food in WvW, I vote to get rid of Ascended/Legendary equipment — it gives power creep and it takes forever to get. Pay2Win. Wait… thinking about it now, I say no to Exotics! Those cost money and have too many stat points! And how about those Rares and Masterworks! … See where I’m going with this?

Yes, I see your argument, but it is flawed: The game is balanced around a game mode with exotic stats without food. Any deviation from that breaks the balance.

Umm… where was it stated that current WvW was balanced with exotic equipment in mind without food? Link Please. You hinting at PvP? WvW is much more similar to PvE to be honest — and in PvE, you can use food, therefore WvW should have food. Both should (and probably are) be balanced around having food buffs.

Also, to put this out there: Cooking (the tradeskill) should not be made even more useless than it already is… it’s quite sad even in its current state. And food buffs add build variety, just as different sets of stats on armor/weapons/runes/sigils gives more build variety. Those who disagree really need to look again at the definition of variety . Some foods are blatantly better than others, yes, and should either be bumped down or the others bumped up.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Did you do any math on this before you made this statement? It has already been proven that 100 power adds more damage to a soldiers gear build then +40% condition duration adds to a dire build in 7/8 profession, with necromancer being the only possible exception.

Nah, plus DPS is a pretty bad case of comparison between Power and Expertise as is. Because while I can compare the damage gain for someone employing say, bleeds and direct attacks, I cannot compare the effect on cripple or weakness or so. Or the opportunity-gain from the +duration.

Anyhow, the point was a different one.
The traits give 100 Power for the same amount of points invested as 10% condition duration. This to me indicates that this should be the (rough) balance point, the “itemization cost” of the basic stats, so to say.
This is for most things reflected in items, btw. The healing power trait line gives the same 300 HP at maximum as you can gain in Power from the power trait line. And when you look at items, yes, items with primary HP have the same amount as a zerker item has in Power.

Ofc, we can then argue that healing power is way too weak due to low scaling, but that’s a different matter (because it’s rooted in the skills on the classes, not in the item stat itself).

Likewise, we see 10% of something stack up against 100 X. But on food, while that stat-parity is held for just about everything, it is not there for duration-modifying foods. So my point is, if you need 40% Expertise to make up for 100 Power, then that should be a global thing. If not, then reduce it and maybe rethink that underlying parity. Maybe trait lines need to give 45% duration, sure. But it ought to be global.

If they disable food in WvW, it will be largely pointless outside of very particular PvE content or powerleveling.

The nice thing about having food enabled in WvW is that it provides the “anything goes” format of PvP. In sPvP, everyone is placed on an equal footing, but WvW has you relying on your own personal/guild kitten nal. If they made WvW the “equal footing” style of PvP it would create less variety in the game, and I don’t think that’s a healthy option.

If you’re going to advocate no food, you also need to advocate no upscaling (i.e. automatic level 80 like in sPvP), only exotic gear stats that are provided to players (i.e. no ascended, no sub-exotics, no investment needed), no racial skills, no boosters, no tonics, &c. Otherwise you’ve left the format in an “anything goes” format, which contradicts the choice to remove food in the first place.

I think there’s still a lot to say about the state of food in the game and advocating changes for the foods (i.e. +/- condi duration stuff perhaps being too strong, certain foods being statistically substandard, &c.). But I feel simply removing it entirely from WvW would be an ultimately unhealthy choice for the game, particularly since you seem to be advocating the removal of food entirely over one or two specific foods. This issue could potentially be solved by way of tweaking the functionality of the food rather than a blanket removal of everything.

Ulion.5476:

Wvw is not suppose to be balance. Uplevel vs full ascended, guard stack, 3 bl buffs. Spvp is were you go for a mostly balance fight. This does not happen in wvw.

hate to admit this guy’s right, but I mean … Anet LITERALLY has said this before.

That whole philosophy keeps me from playing WvW as often as I thought I would before Beta. But it is the way it is for a reason. Maybe if there were actually some fun modes to play in Structured, it wouldn’t seem so bad as there would be alternatives to DubVee. (hence why I go play other games when I want to tryhard-PvP)

With food being as it is at the moment, it makes it feel like your forced into using it to gain the stat boost or it most cases the +40%/-40% bonuses from the high-tier foods. I feel that food needs to be balanced in a way that it’s a nice thing to have but doesn’t benefit you like it does now, as it is with Ascended and Food stuff, it makes it feel like WvW atleast is more of a Gear battle than skill/tactics, which isn’t fun and shouldn’t be part of the game.

Odokuro.5049:

I feel that food needs to be balanced in a way that it’s a nice thing to have but doesn’t benefit you like it does now, as it is with Ascended and Food stuff, it makes it feel like WvW atleast is more of a Gear battle than skill/tactics, which isn’t fun and shouldn’t be part of the game.

I would say – based on subjective guestimates – 80% of all my WvW encounters are far from being balanced, and it’s not primarily due to food or ascended gear.

They need to re-think the entire game-mode to make it balanced. I don’t think that’s going to happen and personally I don’t find it desirable. I like WvW the way it is, the chaos and unpredictability of it.

jpersson.7368:

They need to re-think the entire game-mode to make it balanced. I don’t think that’s going to happen and personally I don’t find it desirable. I like WvW the way it is, the chaos and unpredictability of it.

I play WvW because I want to see some semblance of actual fighting tactics at play, instead of boring twitch-click combat which is what most of the 1v1 roaming crowd seems to love.

In other words, my sense of balance is whether I can crush 50 people by bringing 80, and whether I can crush those 80 with 60 by boxing them off into two sets, swipe most of one, then crush the other.

The last thing I’d want in WvW is for anyone to focus on per-class-per-character balance. Why would I play mass PvP for that? I want WvW-balance, not 1v1-balance in it.

MightyMicah.7451:

I would love to see the research that came to that conclusion.

It has been broken down and posted in about 74 of the other 5,286 threads that discuss this topic. (I hope I didn’t just burst the OPs bubble that his thread isn’t an original idea)

Carighan.6758:

In other words, my sense of balance is whether I can crush 50 people by bringing 80, and whether I can crush those 80 with 60 by boxing them off into two sets, swipe most of one, then crush the other.

Yes… I was referring to micro balance, but that’s usually what the complaints are about. “Your” idea of balance suits me much better =)

Soilder.3607:

I don’t think foods should be usable in WvW. They only seem to add more balancing issues and power creep which tend to fall on changing classes instead of the foods themselves.

Some specific foods, such as condition duration boosters or negators, can single handedly make a spec too powerful, such as anti-condition warriors (they can become virtually immune to cripple, chilled, and immobilize) or, in the case of a cd booster, many condition based builds.

I think a simple fix to many of these problems would just be to remove foods from WvW in their entirety. It may cause a slight decrease in build variety, but overall, it’s worth it.

^
Person who cant afford consumables.

^
Person who has no real arguments so instead just assumes random things about people who think differently to themselves and pretends that’s an argument.

Carighan.6758:

Why would an entire tradeskill be declared meaningless for an entire game mode?

Why not… you know… balance the food instead? I mean let’s be honest, this is about the +40% and -40% food. Reduce the to 10% each for parity, and all done and over with.

Yeeeah:

Max stat for actual stats from food: +100
Comparable trait points (for that one stat): 2

Max stat for +condi duration food: 40%
Comparable trait points (for that one stat): 8

There’s no traited bonus for -condi duration, but even then it’s pretty clear that 40% is far too much. They need brought waaay into line.

This is definitely a side effect from food wars 2. I wouldn’t say remove food entirely from wvw, just completely remove the broken ones that everyone goes to. I shouldn’t be forced to combat other peoples food effects, that’s the worst balance design I experience in wvw and I get zerged down constantly. There is hundreds of foods, and only a handful have any noticeable effect from them, should probably look into buffing some.

[Support foods] make em stronger. Healing power doesn’t scale well on multiple professions, so give a little more than 100 healing power. Then there are downed foods, why not make those effects help you rally allies instead of spec’ing to be dead?

[Damage foods] After the ferocity nerf, all those ferocity foods are terrible. Far to low of a stat value with a much smaller effect than power at this point. On the flip side, 40% condi duration food is broken and should be nerfed (as it was posted awhile back on this forum)

This isn’t about a specific food. I know many people complain about +/-40% foods all the time, but I only want to see them all go in order to reduce some power creep and stop some class complaints.

WvW will still be as unbalanced as you’d like.