Guild Wars 2

Like seriously. I honestly hope the Dev’s do not listen to bad players who cannot counteract the skills or utilities of other classes. Everything has a counteract. People were crying about DD ele’s recently yet I have been killing them all day on my necro and engie.

LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME!

On contrary – everything is OP, and that will always stay this way…

Perfect Balance does not exist – and everything that is “Meta” is by default “Unbalanced” since they dominate other build out there, oftentimes competing against their very own class (S/D Ele v D/D Ele)… (Quotations means I am not serious)

Besides, you cannot stay with the same meta for months… People will find more and more things that annoy them, or what they feel as if it is imbalanced, and they have the right to do so!

There is a difference between whining and projecting your thoughts on the current meta and what feels imbalanced – you can see a recurring thought be that Might Stacking and Sigil of Fire/Air are imbalanced, which might just be true in the end, and may need to be toned down…
Though as for whining concerned, these are usually threads like “X is OP because I say so” – that does sprout nothing but useless debates of nothing but strawmen and childish arguements…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Perfect Balance does not exist – and everything that is “Meta” is by default “Unbalanced” since they dominate other build out there, oftentimes competing against their very own class (S/D Ele v D/D Ele)… (Quotations means I am not serious)

Yes, though we’re now down to semantics. For example, unbalanced has an inherent negative connotation, when in fact a lack of 1-for-1 balance is usually quite warranted and done on purpose, to actually facilitate balance in combat.

And “dominate” is a tricky word. What constitutes “dominating”? Except the whips and ropes and such?

Carighan.6758:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Perfect Balance does not exist – and everything that is “Meta” is by default “Unbalanced” since they dominate other build out there, oftentimes competing against their very own class (S/D Ele v D/D Ele)… (Quotations means I am not serious)

Yes, though we’re now down to semantics. For example, unbalanced has an inherent negative connotation, when in fact a lack of 1-for-1 balance is usually quite warranted and done on purpose, to actually facilitate balance in combat.

And “dominate” is a tricky word. What constitutes “dominating”? Except the whips and ropes and such?

Lightning whip is pretty dominant no? :P

A dominant build, or the way I referring it as, is a build that shows up more than regularly as a build for a class within a large demographic of the competitive scene, and now I mostly refer to the cough"Higher Tier"cough SPvP… – as a perfect example, almost all the ESL weeklies have featured multiple, if not solely exclusively Elementalists with a D/D Celestial build, with but a few itterations in traits and sigils… I refer to that as a dominant build, considering other options, such as Fresh Air or Nuke Staff Ele (If that still exists) are almost non-existant within this setting

I could’ve probably just used the word Meta, since it usually does not conflict as much within the competitive scene

Ah yeah, well, dominating is actually quite the correct word for that (while “meta” is not, I wouldn’t know any build which is actually meta, as in, a build about builds). It just needs qualifiers.

Because in the context of top-end sPvP pro gaming, you can very much observe builds dominating others due to the specific example being easy to measure.

There have been, and are currently aspect that are genuinely over powered, regardless of what the OP claims.

Then again, what is over powered, and why or how it is over powered, is subjective, and open to personal opinion. As you can see, I can state my opinion, as if we’re a fact, in the same manner you can OP.

coglin.1867:

There have been, and are currently aspect that are genuinely over powered, regardless of what the OP claims.

Then again, what is over powered, and why or how it is over powered, is subjective, and open to personal opinion. As you can see, I can state my opinion, as if we’re a fact, in the same manner you can OP.

Ok..playing Devil’s advocate. What is “currently” OP?

Mitch.4781:

Ok..playing Devil’s advocate. What is “currently” OP?

Hrm… well, talking about details is kinda pointless if the underlying causes aren’t fixed first. In that light, here’s my brief and non-exhaustive take on OP things which require action:

• Blast finishers compared to other finishers, especially in regards to stacking Might.
• Power variability in general, comparing minimum (or “baseline”) to attainable maximum for any specific effect.
• Stacking in general. I don’t necessarily mean stacking on the same spot though, but the game’s mechanics actively encourage providing as many targets as possible in a very small area, for boon-sharing, condition-cleansing, not providing a viable AE target due to limited targets per shot, maneuverability and ofc lack of collision detection. It’s exemplified even more in PvE where the lack of difficulty and lack of AI capabilities further augment its dominance.
• Power attacks in general, compared to healing and condition damage. Due to stacking issues and multiplicative power scaling, mostly.

None of those are op.

Ofc not, that was the point! Game has much bigger problems at a way more basic level than whether a skill or a class or someone’s nose is OP or not.

Mitch.4781:

coglin.1867:

There have been, and are currently aspect that are genuinely over powered, regardless of what the OP claims.

Then again, what is over powered, and why or how it is over powered, is subjective, and open to personal opinion. As you can see, I can state my opinion, as if we’re a fact, in the same manner you can OP.

Ok..playing Devil’s advocate. What is “currently” OP?

AHAHAHAH
Here are the things that are stronger than their counterparts, and, in a certain way are to be considered OP.

Skill …
Magnetic Wawe (Elementalist)
Obsidian Flesh (Elementalist)

Utility …
Particularly strong compared to other utility I can not think of anything, but many are weak and useless.

Elite …
Supply Crate (engineer)
Polymorph moa (mesmer)

And ’needless to say learn to play etc … speeches from children, the list above is the truth point. These skills and elites are stronger than the other skills and elite than any other profession. They need a small nerf… -> small nerf <-

In addition, it is necessary to improve the incredible amount of skill, utility and elite who are really weak and never used.

Hrm, Polymorph is always a weird one. It’s very much weaker than virtually any frequently taken elite from any class, and obviously stronger than its counterparts due to lack of there being any.

It’s strong if you compare single target daze abilities, though not without downsides. It’s weak comparing other elites and the game at large (even if used well it’s completely inconsequential in fights of any significant player count).

But calling it “OP”?

OP is exaggerated, in fact I said I need a little change

Moa and supply crate???

L2p pls

Stop spamming L2P. Fighting DD eles is not a L2P issue because you NEVER ASSUME THE OPPONENT IS LESS SKILLED THAN YOU. What if the DD ele knows how to play too? Then you get shrekt because that’s when you really see how OP they are. Watch “The Abjured” play in PvP. Phantaram never loses a single 1v1 ever. Is that cuz he’s best player NA? Possibly, but everyone he beats is similar skill level, so it can be assumed it’s over the top. Even Phantaram himself made a post about how his own class is OP. OP needs to learn to critically think.

Lol, just read OP thoroughly. Necro and Engi… this guy is a joke. Sure, beat Eles on the 2 classes that have the highest chance of beating them and then say “L2P”.

Mitch.4781:

Moa and supply crate???

L2p pls

I really need to explain why?

Then, as regards Supply crate is one of two elite strongest of the game because it has the effect of 3 utility + stun + combo finisher: blast …. None elite to so many effects.

Regarding Moa is simple, too hard. Many people have alternatives, without changing his role in a fight but making it more effective and less powerful at the same time.

Example …

Reducing the duration to 5 seconds
Reduce the CD to 90 seconds
When used invisible visible return

You have to compare skills with skills
the utility with utility
the elite with elite to determine who is too strong or weak.

OP is not even ranked. Ofc nothing is OP in hotjoins.

Well we could start with a definition of OP, OP!

glock.6590:

OP is not even ranked. Ofc nothing is OP in hotjoins.

sPvP is pretty much useless (especially when viewed alone) for any kind of balance discussion due to the nature of GW2’s classes (being heavily based on class-specifics and specialization, which is the opposite of what you need for ideal balance setups in smallscale games).

Then again, that’s the tricky part of something “being OP”. You can’t even define what would be OP about it, let alone why this ability should be considered that. It’s a class-based game, worst case you could argue that the class needs a specific weakness to make up for it.

Simplistic example: Bolt-casters in DAoC could kill targets very efficiently from range, casting higher-than-usual damage spells with very high direct damage numbers.
You could nerf these effects, saying they’re too strong. But doing so would erode the idea of a bolt-caster, and why do that if the idea is to have classes and specializations?
Instead, bolt casters had the additional downside that shield bearers could walk into their line of fire and actively deflect their bolts that way.

Indeed nothing is OP. People claim that condi damage is OP, just because they don t run enough condi clear. Things get countered in this game, deal with it

Mitch.4781:

Like seriously. I honestly hope the Dev’s do not listen to bad players who cannot counteract the skills or utilities of other classes. Everything has a counteract. People were crying about DD ele’s recently yet I have been killing them all day on my necro and engie.

LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME!

Warriors and Thieves and Rangers tried to use this to protect their classes.

It didn’t work.

glock.6590:

OP is not even ranked. Ofc nothing is OP in hotjoins.

wrong, team swap exploit is OP, it crits fun for 20k.

Elitist.8701:

Stop spamming L2P. Fighting DD eles is not a L2P issue because you NEVER ASSUME THE OPPONENT IS LESS SKILLED THAN YOU. What if the DD ele knows how to play too? Then you get shrekt because that’s when you really see how OP they are. Watch “The Abjured” play in PvP. Phantaram never loses a single 1v1 ever. Is that cuz he’s best player NA? Possibly, but everyone he beats is similar skill level, so it can be assumed it’s over the top. Even Phantaram himself made a post about how his own class is OP. OP needs to learn to critically think.

Lol, just read OP thoroughly. Necro and Engi… this guy is a joke. Sure, beat Eles on the 2 classes that have the highest chance of beating them and then say “L2P”.

Oh so it doesn’t count cos I can beat them with necro and engie…so that must make them even moooarrr op right?? The only joke here is you. Please learn to play the game. I never said they could not be a challenge , just I don’t think anything in this game is “op”

Practise and you can get better, yes..even you.

Just look through at all the different things that people think are op….Right now on various forums apparently, Hambows, turret engies, necro condi, shatter mesmers, then there was crying about longbow rangers…

None of these are op in my opinion. You don’t have to get angry because it is my view point.

glock.6590:

OP is not even ranked. Ofc nothing is OP in hotjoins.

Silly comment. I’m not ranked in SoloQ neither, but if I played 1 match I’de get back into top 100 in a blink, even if I lost.

Guys and Gals, we are playing with one of the most balanced game on the market!

Does it have flaws? Yes, a lot!

Could it be better? OFC

I cannot name an OP prof in this game… Certain game modes and certain builds? Yes I can name a few…

Top Darius, Tryndamere, Caster DK, rolling monk, roflkopter warrior, PU mesmer, IL2-Sturmovik, every russian plane, handlock, miracle rogue… you name it….

Mitch.4781:

Just look through at all the different things that people think are op….Right now on various forums apparently, Hambows, turret engies, necro condi, shatter mesmers, then there was crying about longbow rangers…

None of these are op in my opinion. You don’t have to get angry because it is my view point.

The skills that I have listed are “OP” in the sense that they are stronger compared to their peers. Is there a way to determine if a skill, utility, elite or tract is too strong, just compare it with other skills of the same type.

It is not difficult to understand, it’s pure logic.

As regards all three different areas of the game (pvp, pve and WvW) is the meta which changes, not the actual power of each single skill. But it is also true that in certain areas (PvE and WvW) other factors (food, runes, etc.) can cause “imbalances” united to things that already exist.

As someone already said, it is impossible to have the perfect game, because if there is a meta means that the game is unbalanced. The logical thing to do is to make everything “consistent” the skills must all be strong in a certain way.
The utility stronger than skill base and strong all of at the same level
The elite strongest utility but all of the same way
Ditto for traits according to the cost. So as to have a fun and balanced in its maccaniche without seeing abilities, traits, etc. useless !!! given that at present abound.

DejaVu.9825:

Mitch.4781:

Just look through at all the different things that people think are op….Right now on various forums apparently, Hambows, turret engies, necro condi, shatter mesmers, then there was crying about longbow rangers…

None of these are op in my opinion. You don’t have to get angry because it is my view point.

The skills that I have listed are “OP” in the sense that they are stronger compared to their peers. Is there a way to determine if a skill, utility, elite or tract is too strong, just compare it with other skills of the same type.

It is not difficult to understand, it’s pure logic.

As regards all three different areas of the game (pvp, pve and WvW) is the meta which changes, not the actual power of each single skill. But it is also true that in certain areas (PvE and WvW) other factors (food, runes, etc.) can cause “imbalances” united to things that already exist.

As someone already said, it is impossible to have the perfect game, because if there is a meta means that the game is unbalanced. The logical thing to do is to make everything “consistent” the skills must all be strong in a certain way.
The utility stronger than skill base and strong all of at the same level
The elite strongest utility but all of the same way
Ditto for traits according to the cost. So as to have a fun and balanced in its maccaniche without seeing abilities, traits, etc. useless !!! given that at present abound.

Some classes may have perceived “stronger” elites, but then it is balanced up with better utilities or better skills. I honestly don’t feel anything in this game is OP. I truly don’t. It is one of the better balanced MMO’s imo.

I’m sick of people crying for nerfs, when if anything there should be more buffs. We are supposed to be hero’s yet oddly not one class feels super powerful to me.

Mitch.4781:

DejaVu.9825:

Mitch.4781:

Just look through at all the different things that people think are op….Right now on various forums apparently, Hambows, turret engies, necro condi, shatter mesmers, then there was crying about longbow rangers…

None of these are op in my opinion. You don’t have to get angry because it is my view point.

The skills that I have listed are “OP” in the sense that they are stronger compared to their peers. Is there a way to determine if a skill, utility, elite or tract is too strong, just compare it with other skills of the same type.

It is not difficult to understand, it’s pure logic.

As regards all three different areas of the game (pvp, pve and WvW) is the meta which changes, not the actual power of each single skill. But it is also true that in certain areas (PvE and WvW) other factors (food, runes, etc.) can cause “imbalances” united to things that already exist.

As someone already said, it is impossible to have the perfect game, because if there is a meta means that the game is unbalanced. The logical thing to do is to make everything “consistent” the skills must all be strong in a certain way.
The utility stronger than skill base and strong all of at the same level
The elite strongest utility but all of the same way
Ditto for traits according to the cost. So as to have a fun and balanced in its maccaniche without seeing abilities, traits, etc. useless !!! given that at present abound.

Some classes may have perceived “stronger” elites, but then it is balanced up with better utilities or better skills. I honestly don’t feel anything in this game is OP. I truly don’t. It is one of the better balanced MMO’s imo.

I’m sick of people crying for nerfs, when if anything there should be more buffs. We are supposed to be hero’s yet oddly not one class feels super powerful to me.

I know, the term “OP” is exaggerated, however, certain skills are stronger than all the others. Should be modified.

In addition, it is better to first improve all skills, etc. that require new things, otherwise we would be with a multitude of things that would take up unnecessary space.

If you want to I make a list of all the things that should be improved (ability, utility elite traits). Given that I have already said what should be weakened.

DejaVu.9825:

I know, the term “OP” is exaggerated, however, certain skills are stronger than all the others. Should be modified

That’s not a good general rule to go by. Contextual use is very important, skills cannot be compared in a vacuum. For example in games with forced damage interrupt (like DAoC), a powerful gap opener on a ranged class makes a much weaker ranged skill actually balanced against a much stronger one because the context differs:
One class uses it purely as an alpha strike, the other can re-use it in combat.

DejaVu.9825:

I know, the term “OP” is exaggerated, however, certain skills are stronger than all the others. Should be modified.

Should be? So you do not find an imbalance in buffing a skill on a higher health pool and higher armor profession, simply because a lower health pool/armor profession has a similar functioning skill that either does more damage or has a lower cool down? You do not think the health pool, armor, professional mechanic, available trait, available weapon sets, available healing, available utility skills, available invulnerabilities, available blocks, available vigor, available stealth, figure into balance at all? That it should be a direct one to one skill comparison? …………………………Sheesh, I am sure glad you do not work in game development.

DejaVu.9825:

If you want to I make a list of all the things that should be improved (ability, utility elite traits). Given that I have already said what should be weakened.

No thanks. We have already seen the manner in which you justify how you feel things should be. Personally I would prefer to stay grounded to a more logical, dynamic, and scaling understanding of balance, rather then such a binary and narrow, one to one path that you feel we should be on.