Guild Wars 2

Yup, you know what time it is! But no really can we please see what damage we are doing to the thing in stealth in our combat log? That’s my only real gripe. It doesn’t make sense how stealth makes you invisible to the combat feed as well. That way say if a thief is in SR, and I hit him, I can at least make an educated guess if I did enough dmg to him to down him in stealth and therefore keep swinging or not even bother.

I can’t believe people still cry over stealth. It’s been over a year. Haven’t they realized Stealth is given to Thieves at a young age.. I swear it’s either Stealth QQ/Too much Damage QQ/ or Too much Evade QQ

AikijinX.6258:

I can’t believe people still cry over stealth. It’s been over a year. Haven’t they realized Stealth is given to Thieves at a young age.. I swear it’s either Stealth QQ/Too much Damage QQ/ or Too much Evade QQ

I can’t believe people don’t even bother to actually read the post before starting their blind ranting.

All he asks for is to see combat log entries for his damage dealt to a stealthed target.

I think this would be a good idea.

Totally agree with this

+1

I’m Against all stealth threads because its just whining people that need to learn to play and stop moaning about stealth. I have disagreed with every single nerf idea or change to stealth.

I do however agree with you on this. Seems like a really good idea and would like to see this implemented.

This is actually a good idea. So what if the opponent knows they did damage to you? That’s all it is going to tell them. You threw an AoE down and you know they took a single point of damage, it won’t tell the opponent where you’re at. But it IS nice to help us know whenever we hit something in stealth, so we at least know we’re doing some damage.

BFMV.3198:

I’m Against all stealth threads because its just whining people that need to learn to play and stop moaning about stealth. I have disagreed with every single nerf idea or change to stealth.

I do however agree with you on this. Seems like a really good idea and would like to see this implemented.

I was about to write exactly this xD

If this will stop people from QQ’ing about stealth being OP, then I’m all for it.

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Black Box.9312:

If this will stop people from QQ’ing about stealth being OP, then I’m all for it.

It probably won’t, but I could get behind this as well. Seeing a few thousand damage pop up in the combat log after a thief stealths might help assure people that stealth =\= invincibility.

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

While we’re at it. Make condy ticks show too! Makes sense! A burning man doesn’t hide and you can follow the blood trail! :}
(I’m kidding)

ronpierce.2760:

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

awww poor baby

Tricare.2946:

ronpierce.2760:

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

awww poor baby

… Are you mental? “QQ Needs game balance” → “Hey, there’s some inconsistencies that messes with balance.” → “WAAAH QQ MOAR BABY.”

Grow up, kiddo.

Tricare.2946:

ronpierce.2760:

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

awww poor baby

I understand that, but the point of the thread wasn’t to know if I’m hitting a stealthed target, it was to know how much damage I did to it, which would kill two birds with one stone.

ronpierce.2760:

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

Actually an easy way to tell if you play a warrior if you are hitting somebody is if you see your adrenaline go up. If your adrenaline is going up, you are hitting him.

killahmayne.9518:

ronpierce.2760:

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

Not everyone has this. Showing damage done would be just fine, and in fact would be more fair BECAUSE not everyone has this ability. Examples:
Warrior longbow
Guardian Scepter, Staff
Ranger Shortbow, longbow, axe
Engineer anything.
Thief Pistol
Necromancer Scepter, axe (neither can even hit because they aren’t projectiles) staff.
Mesmer staff
Elementalist… Pretty sure all #1’abilities for all weapons and atunements.

Most of those rely on blindly attacking or spamming woes and never knowing if they’re even close.

Actually an easy way to tell if you play a warrior if you are hitting somebody is if you see your adrenaline go up. If your adrenaline is going up, you are hitting him.

Unless your adrenaline is already full, which is possible against thieves. They aren’t usually heavy on the conditions, so you don’t blow Cleansing Ire, and you want to be sure you land your burst skill against the slippery things.

Still, yes, Warriors do have a possible way of telling. Necro staff has the same thing if their life force isn’t full.

Mesmer Staff and Ranger Axe would have a tell if they were within bounce range of another target (that’s not stealthed), but that’s it.

Not a good idea. If the person is in stealth the person is in stealth. You should not get a tell by doing a weapon cleave/spin in the hopes you hit something and get feedback that you did.

On conditions it even a worse Idea.So I lay down a poison or bleed then can track the thief wherever he goes by it ticking on screen?

Either I can see the theif or I can not. If I can not see the thief he is bleeding or poisoned?

Tricare.2946:

Easy way with most weapons to tell if you’re hitting a stealthed player is to watch and see if your #1 switches to the next attack in the chain.

The icon is easier to see, but not all auto-attacks have a chain.

babazhook.6805:

Not a good idea. If the person is in stealth the person is in stealth. You should not get a tell by doing a weapon cleave/spin in the hopes you hit something and get feedback that you did.

On conditions it even a worse Idea.So I lay down a poison or bleed then can track the thief wherever he goes by it ticking on screen?

Either I can see the theif or I can not. If I can not see the thief he is bleeding or poisoned?

Your argument already has a dent in it. Progression based auto attacks tell you if you hit something in stealth. Counters hit back if something hits you from stealth while your guard is up. By your logic we should get rid of those mechanics as well. So being that we know when we are hitting something, I want to know how hard I hit it. This isn’t in any way asking for a stealth nerf it should just be implemented since it would help me, and others, gauge encounters better

I like this idea. Nice job OP.

babazhook.6805:

Not a good idea. If the person is in stealth the person is in stealth. You should not get a tell by doing a weapon cleave/spin in the hopes you hit something and get feedback that you did.

Then exactly what else am I supposed to do while a thief is in stealth? Pick my nose?

Use combo fields for example? Most weapon sets that can’t hit the thief while he is invisible are based on condition damage. So the thief is either suffering to death or preparing his next attack.

So the best thing you can do over picking your nose is:
If the thief is likely to die

• Put condition fields on the spot where the thief dissappeared
• Stand inside the field and move in an upredictable way (180 degrees, dodge)
• Wait for the thief to strike or untill he becomes visible (and downed most likely)

If the thief is likely to survive

• Walk directly away from the thief
• Put a combo field up and walk trough it and keep increasing your distance
• Depending on the range you were from the thief and the direction he was heading, predict when he will strike and dodge, turn 180 degrees.
• The thief is now visible, and/or downed

All your clever knowledge fails to take into account a clever thief.

I can waste a 20-30 second cooldown placing down a combo field, which I then stand in. It lasts 4-10 seconds.

A good thief (using a broken weaponskill stealth) can simply choose to back off, wait until my advantage wears off, then restealth and continue the attack.

A good thief knows good opponents will expect backstabs and instead open in a unique way.

A good thief won’t even let you walk away and leave to go do other things. They’ll continue pestering you until you’re low enough on health or cooldowns for them to do a damage combo.

So you’re telling me to assume my opponent is terrible and put combo fields around myself, hope they don’t have some trick up their sleeve to do a ton of damage from outside of my safety zone, and wait.

I don’t know, I’d like to pick my nose instead. At least that feels productive.

So pick your nose..

Perhaps the clever thief thinks you have something up your sleeve and starts to run away instead.

I personally don’t like the D/P stealth either, but if you don’t want to improve your playstyle. The thief deserves to win.

Oh, I do all those things already. It works wonders against stupid thieves, which are the 90%.

And I automatically lose against intelligent thieves who are simply patient and wait out my defenses, since I’m too used to fighting stupid ones.

I’m really just tired of “clever strategies.” You’re basically just assuming your opponent is bad when you throw skills out into open air. A stealthed opponent isn’t necessarily going to close to melee distance, etc.

In the end it just comes down to the fact that there are very few specs that can effectively “prepare” against a thief assault without throwing away very meaningful cooldowns.

Aegael.6938:

All your clever knowledge fails to take into account a clever thief.

Stealth isn’t free, C&D costs half of their initiative and needs you in melee range, while BP&HS uses three quarters of their initiative. They don’t have an endless reservoir.

A good thief knows ….

You’re fighting ghosts and in your mind you’ve already made them invincible.

frans.8092:

Aegael.6938:

All your clever knowledge fails to take into account a clever thief.

Stealth isn’t free, C&D costs half of their initiative and needs you in melee range, while BP&HS uses three quarters of their initiative. They don’t have an endless reservoir.

A good thief knows ….

You’re fighting ghosts and in your mind you’ve already made them invincible.

True, as players can’t see the thief struggle most times as he is invisible.

As you are walking alone wondering where he will strike you. You are creating a situation in your mind as where the thief is in a great advantage. But if you outplay him before he stealths, he is usually crippled perhaps even dying. Trying to catch up with you.

And to be honest, patient thiefs aren’t less predictable. They are working with the exact same tools. And no thief can break the physics of GW2.

You can stand there as a bag of potatoes and wonder what will happen next. Or you could use your surroundings to great advantage. A corner of a wall, a rabbit, or a ledge. Crawl inside the mind of the thief and know that when the thief is being patient, he has to stay within range / has to be able to hit a shot / or has to restealth.

This way you can force him to reveal himself or walk to the exact spot where you will expect him.

If this doesn’t help you, try to play D/P for a change. So you know what the thief is struggling with.

Aegael.6938:

Oh, I do all those things already. It works wonders against stupid thieves, which are the 90%.

And I automatically lose against intelligent thieves who are simply patient and wait out my defenses, since I’m too used to fighting stupid ones.

I’m really just tired of “clever strategies.” You’re basically just assuming your opponent is bad when you throw skills out into open air. A stealthed opponent isn’t necessarily going to close to melee distance, etc.

In the end it just comes down to the fact that there are very few specs that can effectively “prepare” against a thief assault without throwing away very meaningful cooldowns.

Are you saying that 9/10 thieves you come across are pretty easy fights?

Aegael.6938:

In the end it just comes down to the fact that there are very few specs that can effectively “prepare” against a thief assault without throwing away very meaningful cooldowns.

So you’re saying that you shouldn’t have to use your important abilities to beat a thief? Because that’s kind of a silly thing to say.

I think it’s more of “you shouldn’t have to blow long cooldowns for defense against something the thief can just repeat within 5 seconds.”

Not saying I think thieves are really that big of a problem, but I think that’s what he was saying.

@OP:
Even as a thief I support the idea. it allows for some means of skilled counterplay/pseudo-tracking and requires thieves to really get out of the way if they wish to reset a fight. Would also solve a lot of QQ and makes more sense from a combat/simulation perspective.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I think it’s more of “you shouldn’t have to blow long cooldowns for defense against something the thief can just repeat within 5 seconds.”

Not saying I think thieves are really that big of a problem, but I think that’s what he was saying.

I agree. As a thief I shouldn’t have to blow a 50 second stunbreak just to chase down a warrior. Oh wait, I forgot this sort of mentality doesn’t apply to thieves because we’re invincible, my bad!

(Btw, not taking a dig at you Drarnor, just the overall mentality of people who actually believe they shouldn’t have to time important utilities/skills to beat a good opponent ).

frans.8092:

Aegael.6938:

All your clever knowledge fails to take into account a clever thief.

Stealth isn’t free, C&D costs half of their initiative and needs you in melee range, while BP&HS uses three quarters of their initiative. They don’t have an endless reservoir.

A good thief knows ….

You’re fighting ghosts and in your mind you’ve already made them invincible.

I play a thief. I know exactly how the class works. That’s why I mentioned the cooldowns and durations of a typical field.

A thief can stealth on me, or a nearby NPC mob, or even just do a heartseeker leap combo. Then he’s in stealth.

I go into defensive mode and pop a moderate cooldown.

He instead backs off out of range of me. Then he restealths after his initiative is back at full and I’m down a cooldown. (Since 6 initiative recharges way faster than 30 seconds.)

This is called “resetting the fight.” The problem comes from thief’s insane mobility and his unique recharge system paired with the fact that he has stealth on his weaponsets. A ranger can’t do the same thing with Hunter’s Shot because they’re not as mobile, and that has a static cooldown rather than being able to be re-used at will.

“Insane mobility?” Warriors, rangers, and eles have better access to mobility, strictly speaking. If a thief backs away, you should pursue him. He’s resetting the fight because he can’t win otherwise. To let him do so or to then blow cooldowns if he does is asking for death.

Stealth is accessible only if you use utilities for it outside of d/p and x/d sets. HiS is used so universally only because it’s the best heal and condi clear, not just because of stealth. Frankly, I’d love to run four signets on my signet build and play without stealth, but highest burst heal + condi clear is strictly better than the other spells for this slot.

Aegael.6938:

frans.8092:

Aegael.6938:

All your clever knowledge fails to take into account a clever thief.

Stealth isn’t free, C&D costs half of their initiative and needs you in melee range, while BP&HS uses three quarters of their initiative. They don’t have an endless reservoir.

A good thief knows ….

You’re fighting ghosts and in your mind you’ve already made them invincible.

I play a thief. I know exactly how the class works. That’s why I mentioned the cooldowns and durations of a typical field.

A thief can stealth on me, or a nearby NPC mob, or even just do a heartseeker leap combo. Then he’s in stealth.

I go into defensive mode and pop a moderate cooldown.

He instead backs off out of range of me. Then he restealths after his initiative is back at full and I’m down a cooldown. (Since 6 initiative recharges way faster than 30 seconds.)

This is called “resetting the fight.” The problem comes from thief’s insane mobility and his unique recharge system paired with the fact that he has stealth on his weaponsets. A ranger can’t do the same thing with Hunter’s Shot because they’re not as mobile, and that has a static cooldown rather than being able to be re-used at will.

Depending on the class I’m running at the time, I just eat the backstab and then cc or burst the thief to death. Just gotta be prepared with your best combo at your fingertips. Yes, I understand it’s risky, but I’ve even done it with my glass mesmer.

Anyway, just eat it without using any CDs then burn them after when the thief appears in front of you.

Whole-heartedly agree with this.

I’m really not a fan of how stealth works in this game…it should work like how it does in WoW where it immediately cancels upon getting hit. You would think getting smashed in the face would be enough to reveal their location, unless they are wearing Crysis nanosuits?

Aegael.6938:

…A thief can stealth on me, or a nearby NPC mob, or even just do a heartseeker leap combo. Then he’s in stealth.

I go into defensive mode and pop a moderate cooldown.

He instead backs off out of range of me. Then he restealths after his initiative is back at full and I’m down a cooldown. (Since 6 initiative recharges way faster than 30 seconds.)

BP+HS costs 9 initiative and provides 4 seconds of stealth and an additional 3 for every extra 4 seconds of stealth. The 9 initiative takes 9 seconds to restore, not 4. He might just have enough initiative for another round after the first stealth wears of, but after those 4 seconds run out he’s ran out of initiative.

This is called “resetting the fight.”

Resetting the fight is going far enough to go out of combat. There is no point in confusing the discussion with new definitions.

The problem comes from thief’s insane mobility and his unique recharge system paired with the fact that he has stealth on his weaponsets.

What insane mobility on D/P D/D? Shadowshot? Initiative, revealed. Heartseeker? Uses initiative and risks revealing. SoS? 25% IMS is standard and the 33% (capped!) ims in stealth is only a very small increase over 25%.

I would agree, if someone said stealth need a rework, but these 1000 cry threads, with always the same content, are really annoying.

I play 6 classes incl. a 99,95% stealthless thief and I have no problems to counter stealthbuilds.

So what does that mean? Are these 6 Classes OP or the others just to bad?

@OP
Is AA not enough to know, where they are and if you hit them?

Black Teagan.9215:

I would agree, if someone said stealth need a rework, but these 1000 cry threads, with always the same content, are really annoying.

I play 6 classes incl. a 99,95% stealthless thief and I have no problems to counter stealthbuilds.

So what does that mean? Are these 6 Classes OP or the others just to bad?

@OP
Is AA not enough to know, where they are and if you hit them?

For the last time, this isn’t to know if I hit them. Yes that’d be a side effect which I wouldn’t mind either, but this is to know how hard I hit them. I don’t see why this wasn’t implemented in the first place. Say a mesmer cloaks when they are at half health and I backstab the area and then suddenly get re- no let’s use a better example, say a thief is at half health and enters shadow refuge. I then proceed to to BS inside the circle and suddenly get revealed, indicating a hit. At this point three things will happen: I will keep swinging and finally come to the conclusion the thief is down and keep swing at the air that is magically progressing my AA, My AA will cease to progress indicating the thief got away, same as last scenario except the thief doesn’t retreat they retaliate catching me off guard.

Here is how that would change with my suggestion: I see that my BS did 2k damage, a face stab and surely not enough to down the thief as the state they were in. Even if they were at full health that doesn’t help much still. I can then retreat out of thier SR and use my normal tactics to counter an oncoming counter attack if that is what they were planning. Now same scenario, they go into SR I get revealed and I see I did a signature 8k damage. If they were at half or less, that’s a down and I can affirm I am not wasting my time looking for the downed body, granted this won’t happen every single time. Or, even if they were at full health, as a thief, if you get hit for half your hp with one of your crucial utilities on CD, you normally wouldn’t counter attack and risk anything.
In the case of mesmers, it’s basically the same thing except they aren’t known to make large groups of people go around furiously swinging at the air around them looking for the downed person.

Also, it would help those that have aoe’s and help shed the whole, thieves are invincible while in stealth yadda yadda etc etc and so on and so forth.

ronpierce.2760:

While we’re at it. Make condy ticks show too! Makes sense! A burning man doesn’t hide and you can follow the blood trail! :}
(I’m kidding)

I’m not – both of those are GOOD suggestions.

stale.9785:

ronpierce.2760:

While we’re at it. Make condy ticks show too! Makes sense! A burning man doesn’t hide and you can follow the blood trail! :}
(I’m kidding)

I’m not – both of those are GOOD suggestions.

While, yes, it could be a cool mechanic that makes sense, even… I doubt we’d get away with this. The tears would put out the fire and delude the blood.