Guild Wars 2

These are the two skills that make Warriors hard to deal with. Cleansing Ire only adds to the issue which is why it seems OP but it isn’t the main problem imo. Skills like these that are instant cast and have no drawbacks shouldn’t exist in any competitive environment.

I don’t even know why Endure Pain exists. Complete damage immunity on one of the tankiest classes in the game doesn’t seem fair at all. I understand that you can still do condition damage, but that’s simply not an option for everyone. This ability should just reduce direct damage by 40-50%. Or you could make it like the Warlock’s skill in WoW, Dark Bargain, so that you take half the damage you absorbed over time.

That being said the same holds true for Berserker Stance. Something similar could be done, like conditions not being able to stack in intensity or something like that.

Just my opinion on the matter.

I don’t think either ability is OP per se. But I do think they need to a much better and more obvious animation.

Fighting a Warrior it is imperative to watch their buff bar for these abilities or you end up blowing your cooldowns into them. And playing the interface is something ANet wanted to avoid.

Berserker Stance is also incredibly important when fighting certain builds or classes, especially Thieves and Necros. Against D/P Thieves it gives you a short window of opportunity to get through their blind-spam and against Necros it’s important to maintain momentum.

Dee Jay.2460:

I don’t think either ability is OP per se. But I do think they need to a much better and more obvious animation.

Fighting a Warrior it is imperative to watch their buff bar for these abilities or you end up blowing your cooldowns into them. And playing the interface is something ANet wanted to avoid.

Berserker Stance is also incredibly important when fighting certain builds or classes, especially Thieves and Necros. Against D/P Thieves it gives you a short window of opportunity to get through their blind-spam and against Necros it’s important to maintain momentum.

I get how the abilities are super useful in a lot of situations, but that doesn’t change the facts. There is literally no warning to them and they add a ton of survivability to an innately tanky class with literally no trade off.

And that’s why I suggested adding more obvious animations. Berserker Stance for example is “only” 8 seconds and can be kited easily.

Same applies to Endure Pain. When a Warrior triggers it that’s the right moment to go defensive and kite him for a moment. They are hardly “I win” buttons.

You can apply that to WvW maybe, but in spvp where you have to defend a point there is no way to kite the warrior without him neutralizing/capping the point.

It’s definitely not an instant win but it puts major pressure onto the person you’re fighting instantly.

Raunchy.6891:

These are the two skills that make Warriors hard to deal with. Cleansing Ire only adds to the issue which is why it seems OP but it isn’t the main problem imo. Skills like these that are instant cast and have no drawbacks shouldn’t exist in any competitive environment.

I don’t even know why Endure Pain exists. Complete damage immunity on one of the tankiest classes in the game doesn’t seem fair at all. I understand that you can still do condition damage, but that’s simply not an option for everyone. This ability should just reduce direct damage by 40-50%. Or you could make it like the Warlock’s skill in WoW, Dark Bargain, so that you take half the damage you absorbed over time.

That being said the same holds true for Berserker Stance. Something similar could be done, like conditions not being able to stack in intensity or something like that.

Just my opinion on the matter.

Complete damage immunity – and then you yourself realize that conditions can still be applied. That doesn’t really mean immune does it?

Also – the stance lasts for : 4 – FOUR – seconds. Is it really that tough to deal with? On a 60 second cooldown.

This is not an issue. It’s a L2P issue.

ptv and zerker stance and endure pain and cc and passive heal TOGETHER make warrior hard to deal with

I do not see a problem with either skill personally. They require the resource of taking up a utility slot, which are obviously limited. They are both reactive skills that require activation in the situation that a player feels they will be the most helpful, and they have long enough cool downs. Sure, they can seem over powered when combined with other things such as healing signet, cleansing ire, or other traits, but as I see it, that is a problem with those skills or traits, and not Endure Pain or Berserker Stance

I believe berserker stance is OP, 8 (10 if traited) seconds of complete immunity to an entire damage type and all soft cc. Would you imagine the chaos if endure pain has a 8 second duration. And if that isn’t enough that they are granted half a bar of adrenaline every second.

A Berserker Warrior heals on average approximately:
[Healing Signet] + [~Rank 2 Adrenal Health] + [~20% Regeneration uptime from Dogged March] = [Result]
392 + 78 + (130/100*20) = 496

So over the course of Endure Pain it heals about….. 2k.

Over the Course of Berserker Stance it heals about…. 4k.

I can perhaps understand a problem with Berserker’s Stance due to it’s duration, but Endure Pain definitely doesn’t create any problems whatsoever. The counterplay options for both are immediately apparent – just play defensive for a short while while the Warrior obviously tries to go for your face during his opportunity moment.

The two skills itself are relatively balanced.

First of all taking Endure Pain and Berserker Stance requires 2 utility slots.

Second of all, Endure Pain only grants immunity to direct damage, not conditions and Berserker Stance is the opposite of that. And both are on a 60 second cooldown. Maybe zerker stance can come down to about 6 seconds but that would be the only argument.

Some classes have skills that grant immunity to both.

But hey, I would love for my warrior not to be forced into the same utilities.

Harper.4173:

Also – the stance lasts for : 4 – FOUR – seconds. Is it really that tough to deal with? On a 60 second cooldown.

This is not an issue. It’s a L2P issue.

I swear people in this game just throw around L2P like they’re gods or something. First of all it’s a 5 second duration traited. Secondly, I actually don’t have that much trouble with warriors since most people that play them are pretty bad. I’m saying that their kit is too strong for having no trade offs. Also, ever heard of Defy Pain? It’s pretty commonly used so that makes it 9 seconds of no direct damage taken.

killahmayne.9518:

Some classes have skills that grant immunity to both.

I get that other classes have evades and invulnerability, and I think some of that (especially thief evades) need to get toned down also. These stances just seem a bit too strong to me is all. Also I get that it’s 2 utility slots, but really what else is there to use? Warriors don’t have very appealing utilities imho.

Raunchy.6891:

I swear people in this game just throw around L2P like they’re gods or something. First of all it’s a 5 second duration. Secondly, I actually don’t have that much trouble with warriors since most people that play them are pretty bad. I’m saying that their kit is too strong for having no trade offs. Also, ever heard of Defy Pain? It’s pretty commonly used so that makes it 9 seconds of no direct damage taken.

It’s 5 seconds traited with Sure Footed which competes with Dogged March. Defy Pain also competes with Merciless Hammer, so it’s decidedly not “commonly used.”

Raunchy.6891:

These are the two skills that make Warriors hard to deal with. Cleansing Ire only adds to the issue which is why it seems OP but it isn’t the main problem imo. Skills like these that are instant cast and have no drawbacks shouldn’t exist in any competitive environment.

I don’t even know why Endure Pain exists. Complete damage immunity on one of the tankiest classes in the game doesn’t seem fair at all. I understand that you can still do condition damage, but that’s simply not an option for everyone. This ability should just reduce direct damage by 40-50%. Or you could make it like the Warlock’s skill in WoW, Dark Bargain, so that you take half the damage you absorbed over time.

That being said the same holds true for Berserker Stance. Something similar could be done, like conditions not being able to stack in intensity or something like that.

Just my opinion on the matter.

History lesson 101;
For the first year of PvP warrior was undisputed in being considered the weakest profession. This is thoroughly backed up in the forums for that entire year. During this phase it was believed that warrior’s health and dmg meant they could abosrb a certain amount of conditions are survive. However this just wasn’t panning out to be the case. They were being eaten alive and their represetation was minimal to none. Endure existed as a 4 second stance that made you immune to physical damage only. This is not total immunity as you have stated. Conditions and control were still subject to working. Berserker stance also operated in an entirely different dynamic. It increased damage and crit chance. A-net change the skill completely by making it have 100% condition duration. This is not the same as immunity. Any full condition spec under multiple stacks of mights could still get conditions to stick, however their durations were fleeting at best and it may as well have been completely immunity. However you were still subject to physical damage and hard CC. With this change came cleansing ire, healing signet. This resulted in axe damage being back loaded and other damage spec’s being shaved. The reason these changes happened is because warrior was weak, it was not operating in PvP as a-net wanted and the community wanted to see them buffed. The community got what it wanted, and so did a-net. You have to remember for every complaint about warrior there were 1000 before that about how much of a push over they were. In any MMO warrior is going to be a popular profession. PvP had never taken off, the player community in PvE was decreasing. These changes were made because of demand and need. That is why a-net have stated they want warrior’s to be threatening and they’re happy with where warrior currently is, just unhappy about 2 particular builds that are dominating. You can’t really complain about what everyone wanted right from the start.

Both these skills have one considerable drawback… their CD (cooldown) which is 60secs while their effects are 8s (Berserker Stance) condition immunity and 4s (Endure pain) damage immunity.

If you stop spamming your precious skills on a warrior that simply negates them and wait for these to expire… then you got close to 1 minute where warrior won’t be able to do much.

Better/more obvious animations could be nice though.

Jzaku.9765:

Raunchy.6891:

I swear people in this game just throw around L2P like they’re gods or something. First of all it’s a 5 second duration. Secondly, I actually don’t have that much trouble with warriors since most people that play them are pretty bad. I’m saying that their kit is too strong for having no trade offs. Also, ever heard of Defy Pain? It’s pretty commonly used so that makes it 9 seconds of no direct damage taken.

It’s 5 seconds traited with Sure Footed which competes with Dogged March. Defy Pain also competes with Merciless Hammer, so it’s decidedly not “commonly used.”

Just because there are other traits that compete with it doesn’t mean that it isn’t common. Also I see Defy Pain more often then not in tpvp.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

.snip.

I said complete immunity besides conditions (which I know is contradictory), but that’s beside the point. I remember when warriors were just gimmicks that only really had Hundred Blades and Eviscerate, which basically only killed people who have never seen the moves before. I get that they needed buffs. I guess I’m just the only one that thinks damage immunity is a poor mechanic to give survivability, especially to already tanky classes. Saying it has a minute cooldown is not a justification, that’s just a result of it being too good of a skill to have a lesser cd.

boehoe.. just wait max 8 sec and hes yours for 60sec… soo OP.. lol

Raunchy.6891:

Harper.4173:

Also – the stance lasts for : 4 – FOUR – seconds. Is it really that tough to deal with? On a 60 second cooldown.

This is not an issue. It’s a L2P issue.

I swear people in this game just throw around L2P like they’re gods or something. First of all it’s a 5 second duration traited. Secondly, I actually don’t have that much trouble with warriors since most people that play them are pretty bad. I’m saying that their kit is too strong for having no trade offs. Also, ever heard of Defy Pain? It’s pretty commonly used so that makes it 9 seconds of no direct damage taken.

killahmayne.9518:

Some classes have skills that grant immunity to both.

I get that other classes have evades and invulnerability, and I think some of that (especially thief evades) need to get toned down also. These stances just seem a bit too strong to me is all. Also I get that it’s 2 utility slots, but really what else is there to use? Warriors don’t have very appealing utilities imho.

Signet of Stamina for extra dodge and cleanse, Bull’s Charge, Frenzy, Fear Me

Raunchy.6891:

Harper.4173:

Also – the stance lasts for : 4 – FOUR – seconds. Is it really that tough to deal with? On a 60 second cooldown.

This is not an issue. It’s a L2P issue.

I swear people in this game just throw around L2P like they’re gods or something. First of all it’s a 5 second duration traited. Secondly, I actually don’t have that much trouble with warriors since most people that play them are pretty bad. I’m saying that their kit is too strong for having no trade offs. Also, ever heard of Defy Pain? It’s pretty commonly used so that makes it 9 seconds of no direct damage taken.

killahmayne.9518:

Some classes have skills that grant immunity to both.

I get that other classes have evades and invulnerability, and I think some of that (especially thief evades) need to get toned down also. These stances just seem a bit too strong to me is all. Also I get that it’s 2 utility slots, but really what else is there to use? Warriors don’t have very appealing utilities imho.

Also heard of investment? Defy Pain requires a heavy investment in the defense tree. You get SOMETHING if you invest heavily into a trait tree.

Warriors have good utilities – you just don’t know the class.

Aside from the mechanics of the skills, the OP is right that they need to be more visual impact to these skills in order to telegraph their usage.

Compare Endure Pain to other invulns:

• Mist form The Ele turns into a white cloud of mist
• Signet of Stone (traited) The Ranger has a large icon of the Signet over his head
• Renewed Focus The Guardian stops attacking and starts channeling
• Elixir S The Engineer becomes tiny
• Distortion Blurred effect over the mesmer
• Endure Pain The icon on the UI, which all of the above have in addition to their obvious effects