Signet of Vampirism: The active life-siphoning effect of this signet can no longer be applied to inanimate objects, such as WvW gates.
We felt this signet wasn’t useless enough yet, so we scaled it down even further. This is to avoid any confusion regarding the uselessness of the skill.
Seriously, when I read the name of the skill in the patch notes, I became hopeful that perhaps a change to the skill had been considered to no longer make it useless. Of course that hope was instantly shattered.
Might as well just remove the skill completely. What’s the point?
For your info, this skill was able to destroy keepdoors in wvw better than siege equipment and was exploited.
I don’t see how it’s possible for 5,000 (max) damage on a 35 second cooldown to take down a gate faster than a flame ram that deals 8k to the gate per hit.
For your info, this skill was able to destroy keepdoors in wvw better than siege equipment and was exploited.
I don’t see how it’s possible for 5,000 (max) damage on a 35 second cooldown to take down a gate faster than a flame ram that deals 8k to the gate per hit.
the signet by itself is terrible. i tried it on my necro, but to be honest im glad they fixed this exploit because the signet could take down a gate wayyy to quick and im sure this wasnt intended. of course it doesnt change the fact that the signet is terrible as a healing signet.
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
For your info, this skill was able to destroy keepdoors in wvw better than siegeequipment and was exploited.
For your info, wvwvw should never be even in the mind of the profession balance team because its not their problem, wanna fix how keeps work make only siege damage destroy them.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
What I don’t get is what the big problem was. Could have just made the damage non-scaling versus objects, force the number of damage incurred to a hard amount. Although ofc I don’t know the script for the skill.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
The problem is how life leech works in GW2.
Every life leech adds a fixed amount of damage to you skills (that ignores armor and invuln(?)) and adds a fixed amount of health to your health-bar.*
It is not like in other games, where you “steal” 10% of you attacks damage, so it scales with the damage dealt.
So if you are facing a high toughness target (like the gates in WvW) where you only deal ~20 damage per hit, the additional ~420 damage per hit from your siphon are very much damage. So you are ~20 times faster in killing walls/gates with this exploit (with enough necros of course).
—
*Because of this fixed number thing, Anet can’t give those skills a good scaling with power or healing power (some scale with 0.0x, other don’t scale at all). Because they probably would get to mighty. too much heal in addition to your #6 and/or to much true damage.
In the end it is just a stupid design decision.
The problem is how life leech works in GW2.
Every life leech adds a fixed amount of damage to you skills (that ignores armor and invuln(?)) and adds a fixed amount of health to your health-bar.*
It is not like in other games, where you “steal” 10% of you attacks damage, so it scales with the damage dealt.
So if you are facing a high toughness target (like the gates in WvW) where you only deal ~20 damage per hit, the additional ~420 damage per hit from your siphon are very much damage. So you are ~20 times faster in killing walls/gates with this exploit (with enough necros of course).
—
*Because of this fixed number thing, Anet can’t give those skills a good scaling with power or healing power (some scale with 0.0x, other don’t scale at all). Because they probably would get to mighty. too much heal in addition to your #6 and/or to much true damage.
In the end it is just a stupid design decision.
Thats the point… Siphons ignored damage… on that note where is the nice scaling shadow damage? That should also be armor ignoring direct/power scaling damage which necro burst is based on.
If you wanna fix building damage… plain make buildings only take damage from said siege weapons… FGS, Golem charge and the now exed vampirism make most of it worthless (as in stuff that aint 50k+ range or burns trough zergs).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
@unleashed: Weeiiiiird. I would really like to see the implementation of that, sounds so strange.
I can’t imagine what the script for this must be like that they can’t relatively easily make the siphon damage subject to the same reductions.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I can’t wrap my head around it. How is completely disabling its damage to static objects, more important than the fact that this skill has no use what so ever in ANY situation? Not in pvp, not in wvw, and certainly not in pve. If you equip this skill as your healing skill, you will die. The balance team needs to get their priorities straight.
If you’re going to make a useless skill even more useless, (which could only happen to the necro, as ArmageddonAsh ironically pointed out), why not simply remove the skill completely?
I still haven’t bought the skill for this reason. I refuse to, until they actually put some effort in, and make it a skill that has a use. I’d settle with just one use, but give it a purpose. It’s a healing skill! It should not get you killed!
The problem is that if they’re just remove the ICD and slightly tweak the passive, the skill could actually be useful. The active is mostly a game-wide issue with siphoning, the passive seems really good against small and fast attacks, if only it’d work like that.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Gah seriously? The whole Necro community is up in arms about how completely useless Vamp Sig is and it gets nerfed?
Right now there are zero situations where Vamp Sig is useful.
Says it all, Mesmer cries about the change to DE and they remove the fix. Necromancer state that a heal is useless in 99% of situations and they nerf it in the 1% of situations where it was useful…
‘Signet of Undeath’ was already useless. I realise every class needs a rez skill (the active), but the passive is so terrible it might as well just be nothing too.
1% life force every 3 seconds? That means it takes 5 minutes to go from zero life force to full.
Considering Necros can get to 100% in about 20 seconds in any normal fight – that’s a completely and utterly useless passive.
I wish they would focus their balance updates on improving all those useless skills and traits, rather than nerfing the few that are useful. But it seems like they are more likely to add new skills, than to fix the old ones that we already have.
I wish they would focus their balance updates on improving all those useless skills and traits, rather than nerfing the few that are useful. But it seems like they are more likely to add new skills, than to fix the old ones that we already have.
This is my perception as well and I also feel it is a problem.
I’m also hearing the latest “fix” to Vamp Sig is buggy and means it does no damage to bosses like the Shatterer?
This is correct. All dragons, jungle wurms, and probably shadow behemoth and Golem Mk2 are immune to the signet active since the last change. Considering those events were the only place in the entire game where the signet was useful…
Though my Necro is only 72 for now, this really annoys me. Partially because of the new heals, this was the most interesting one. Especially due to the “cushion a little bit of each blow”-passive.
But the ICDs completely ruin it.
What I’d change:
Remove ICD from the passive. If someone attacks you fast&weak, yes, the signet will be good. Skills should be specialized, this would excel against fast attackers.
Remove ICD from the active. The active is difficult enough to discharge as it is, don’t need the ICD to make it even more problematic.
Change the active to not be siphon but just a heal. As in, remove the damage component. Then re-enable it on structures again.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Though my Necro is only 72 for now, this really annoys me. Partially because of the new heals, this was the most interesting one. Especially due to the “cushion a little bit of each blow”-passive.
But the ICDs completely ruin it.
What I’d change:
Remove ICD from the passive. If someone attacks you fast&weak, yes, the signet will be good. Skills should be specialized, this would excel against fast attackers.
Remove ICD from the active. The active is difficult enough to discharge as it is, don’t need the ICD to make it even more problematic.
Change the active to not be siphon but just a heal. As in, remove the damage component. Then re-enable it on structures again.
1 would be just meh, 2 would be ok but still meh since in a teamfight its down oretty much instantly also icd is player based (finally they learn a bit), 3 would make it utterly worthless.
Vamp just needs its passive to be siphoning on hit without icd (aka permaretal) and active scale in terms of stacks and damage with allies around you (it could thus have use in zergs trough tons of stacks and little siphons, in small fights current version and solo 5 stacks that are about 30% stronger).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
1. I get the distinct impression that the GW2 balance team is preoccupied with chasing SPVP corner cases. Meaning that they are looking for individual skills, and combinations of such, that can be “OP” in the hands of someone with a high APM and stone cold concentration.
2. I would love to see the CVS log for the code dealing with this signet, as the changes to the massive reeks of two devs doing changes without talking to each other. One removing the siphon effects, another putting in the ICD. Even the guys doing the video demo seemed surprised at the low numbers they were seeing, making me wonder if there is a breakdown of communications within Arenanet.
I’m also hearing the latest “fix” to Vamp Sig is buggy and means it does no damage to bosses like the Shatterer?
This is correct. All dragons, jungle wurms, and probably shadow behemoth and Golem Mk2 are immune to the signet active since the last change. Considering those events were the only place in the entire game where the signet was useful…
Oh what the kitten.
The patch notes say “Signet of Vampirism: The active life-siphoning effect of this signet can no longer be applied to inanimate objects, such as WvW gates.”
I wouldn’t exactly say ALL of the dragons and many of the other key bosses in the game are exactly inanimate or objects.
I’m also hearing the latest “fix” to Vamp Sig is buggy and means it does no damage to bosses like the Shatterer?
This is correct. All dragons, jungle wurms, and probably shadow behemoth and Golem Mk2 are immune to the signet active since the last change. Considering those events were the only place in the entire game where the signet was useful…
Oh what the kitten.
The patch notes say “Signet of Vampirism: The active life-siphoning effect of this signet can no longer be applied to inanimate objects, such as WvW gates.”
I wouldn’t exactly say ALL of the dragons and many of the other key bosses in the game are exactly inanimate or objects.
They count as structures… well as objects not npcs.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
I do realise that they are coded that way, but when the devs changed Vamp Sig so they can’t smash down WvW gates faster than intended (a legit concern) do you think they also intended that if a Necro takes this heal into a fight against most of the bosses in the game, that they will die because they can’t heal?
I’ve actually found purpose for SoV in my build, and it works pretty kitten well for me at least. I’ve made a build revolving around life stealing, and supplement damage. I think it’s alright for right now. The way to survive is being active and to control your opponents(One of the powerful aspects of a Necromancer!) It isn’t for every build, and but it works, people prefer Consume Conditions for the condi clear and greater heal.
I’ve actually found purpose for SoV in my build, and it works pretty kitten well for me at least. I’ve made a build revolving around life stealing, and supplement damage. I think it’s alright for right now. The way to survive is being active and to control your opponents(One of the powerful aspects of a Necromancer!) It isn’t for every build, and but it works, people prefer Consume Conditions for the condi clear and greater heal.
You may find Blood Fiend works better for your build. Bloodthirst even works with its attack, and the cooldown is shorter. Provides pretty decent sustain as long as its up, you just have to keep an eye on it.
I’ve actually found purpose for SoV in my build, and it works pretty kitten well for me at least. I’ve made a build revolving around life stealing, and supplement damage. I think it’s alright for right now. The way to survive is being active and to control your opponents(One of the powerful aspects of a Necromancer!) It isn’t for every build, and but it works, people prefer Consume Conditions for the condi clear and greater heal.
You may find Blood Fiend works better for your build. Bloodthirst even works with its attack, and the cooldown is shorter. Provides pretty decent sustain as long as its up, you just have to keep an eye on it.
Blood Fiend is useless for my build, and I don’t like having to depend on AI for my leeching heal, which also can be killed just as easy. I run at least 20 in Blood magic, so I’ve already picked up Blood Thirst. Also i don’t run a faceroll full condition damage build FYI
Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…
Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…
I have Signet traited, so i get it at 28 seconed cooldown with three stacks of might. It has possible damage attached to it(I have to hit them) and heals for about 500ish per hits on a ICD (1s) The passive is alright when you have have things like regen, other lifesteal, Dagger 2. it all adds up. Blood Fiend is useless for my build because it will die to quickly against a good player and you won’t have a heal until it’s off CD, Blood Fiend fits better with a Minion master build since you can trait for it to be more survivable and lower it’s CD.
Yeah seriously when we’ve been saying SoV is completely useless, it really is. We all did the maths when it first came out and every other Necro heal skill is significantly better.
Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…
I have Signet traited, so i get it at 28 seconed cooldown with three stacks of might. It has possible damage attached to it(I have to hit them) and heals for about 500ish per hits on a ICD (1s) The passive is alright when you have have things like regen, other lifesteal, Dagger 2. it all adds up. Blood Fiend is useless for my build because it will die to quickly against a good player and you won’t have a heal until it’s off CD, Blood Fiend fits better with a Minion master build since you can trait for it to be more survivable and lower it’s CD.
Untraited Blood Fiend has 20 second cooldown, approximately 16k health, and an average of 300 hp/second (actual healing, not damage mitigation like the signet) that you can continue to gain while kiting while constantly dealing damage. If they focus on the blood fiend, that’s about 16k of “healing” you got from them focusing it down instead of you. Plus, the sacrifice scales twice as well with healing power as the signet. Even in a heavy siphoning build, the blood fiend does better, and since that’s the worst heal we have otherwise…
Honestly, I don’t see how you can say Blood Fiend is useless when you’re taking Signet of Vampirism, which is in all ways worse for sustain (higher cooldown, lower health/second, less sustained damage, never takes pressure off of you, is less affected by active defenses), but okay…
I have Signet traited, so i get it at 28 seconed cooldown with three stacks of might. It has possible damage attached to it(I have to hit them) and heals for about 500ish per hits on a ICD (1s) The passive is alright when you have have things like regen, other lifesteal, Dagger 2. it all adds up. Blood Fiend is useless for my build because it will die to quickly against a good player and you won’t have a heal until it’s off CD, Blood Fiend fits better with a Minion master build since you can trait for it to be more survivable and lower it’s CD.
Untraited Blood Fiend has 20 second cooldown, approximately 16k health, and an average of 300 hp/second (actual healing, not damage mitigation like the signet) that you can continue to gain while kiting while constantly dealing damage. If they focus on the blood fiend, that’s about 16k of “healing” you got from them focusing it down instead of you. Plus, the sacrifice scales twice as well with healing power as the signet. Even in a heavy siphoning build, the blood fiend does better, and since that’s the worst heal we have otherwise…
Again it’s reliant on AI and it doesn’t exactly have good survivability, and the siphon can be dodged. AoE and cleave exist, so it’s not hard to kill the blood fiend and damage you.. I don’t keep SoV for the passive I use it when i need it and when I’m about to AA with dagger. The Siphon Healing from Blood Fiend dows not scale with healing power, and Taste of death may be 1.0 Ratio, but that’s 1k extra healing with 1k healing power. SoV I can heal for much more(with 410 Healing power i heal for 568 per strike) and deal better damage. This stuff is better in practice than math tbh. SoV works for my build best and I’ve built around it, it really does compliment with what I’ve built for, a lot better than blood fiend. Blood Fiend Should stay with MM builds, and Consum Condition for regular cookie cutters, and Wells for support well builds.
Blood Fiend stays put once it’s in range, so it’s easy to make it so no AoE or cleave hits you both. On top of that, avoiding Blood Fiend’s attacks entirely require an active defense every 3 seconds it’s up while the signet active requires far less (5 seconds of avoidance every 30 seconds, traited).
Regardless of your build, I can guarantee you would be better off running Blood Fiend or Consume Conditions. SoV is just that bad.
Blood Fiend stays put once it’s in range, so it’s easy to make it so no AoE or cleave hits you both. On top of that, avoiding Blood Fiend’s attacks entirely require an active defense every 3 seconds it’s up while the signet active requires far less (5 seconds of avoidance every 30 seconds, traited).
Regardless of your build, I can guarantee you would be better off running Blood Fiend or Consume Conditions. SoV is just that bad.
Consume Conditions is just for condition clear, and as i said before blood fiend is better used by Minionmancer/Zookeeper builds. The passive on SoV is okay for me(though I think I would appreciate at least it to heal for 450 health when struck with the 1s ICD) , especially when i combine it with other things, to make it better. I don’t need Consume Condition since I have good transfers. Also tested Blood fiend, and I don’t feel it’s as useful to me as SoV. The Siphon damage on Blood fiend may heal for 900, but it only hits for 200 every 3 seconds. Placing a signet on someone and striking them with dagger AA’s or life siphon generates a lot of life and gives a decent damage boost. Did you know that SoV’s Siphon damage isn’t minigated by armor? And most siphons in general?" Untraited Signet isn’t worth using, but when traited it actually becomes okayish when you build around the skill. Most of the new heals released were made (even though some of them needs tweaking) for niche builds.
Did you know Blood Fiend also scales with Bloodthirst? Did you know the aftercast on the Signet means you cannot claim more than 4 stacks unless you already have Locust Swarm/WoS/WoC running and hitting your target? Did you know the health/second and DPS from the minion are higher than the signet? Even after armor and protection mitigation, it still has better damage than the mere armor ignoring 26.66 DPS you get from the traited signet. Yes, it really is that low (200 damage/stack, 4 stacks claimed, 28 second cooldown, 1.25 second cast, .75 second aftercast delay for 30 seconds total between uses. 800/30=26.66). The Fiend deals triple that amount with no traits.
And you can never have too many condition removals.
As an aside, both Consume Conditions and Blood Fiend are better against CC-heavy opponents. Consume Conditions because you only have to avoid CC for its cast and not 5 seconds after, Blood Fiend because it doesn’t care what CC gets thrown on you.
You really can’t even build around the signet. The ICD’s kill any potential use it has outside of massive boss event or against flat-out terrible players. Even for its supposed “party support” role, it gets way outdone by Well of Blood,which heals for far more and can be traited to do more than just healing.
