Guild Wars 2

Zaoda.1653:

For example, my Mesmer’s only run skill is her focus #4 skill, and even then I fail to keep up with zergs in WvW and EOTM many times, often missing out on captures, badges and loot. Sure, I could buy 6 superior runes of speed for the 25% increase in movement, but why should I have to? I shouldn’t have to sacrifice my other runes just to keep up – especially when it seems most other classes get this passive 25% movement skill for free.

Furthermore, I would have to fork out 12 gold just to keep up with the zerg. That’s 12 gold that other classes don’t have to pay – it almost seems like GW2 WANT the Mesmer to be as slow as a turtle. This isn’t asking for some uber-ultra-overpowered elite skill or something, this is simply asking for a passive run signet for ALL professions so that we can all keep up.

Who in his right mind equipe the utility +25% speed for zerging ? or trought traits ?

I’m not sure in which server you play, but in every zerg I play I always have perma swiftness (1m +).

Tips :

• Ask for party, guardians/ele and sometimes warriors will provide you with perma swiftness(+33% speed)
• Stay beside commander/guardians/eles
• Don’t be one of those with slow reaction time, when the leader move you should move with him and not wait for the swiftness fairy
• Don’t stand on sentrys/go after solo enemys if the commander is not doing so

Question:
Why have a +25% runspeed signet for everyone

As in, why the complexity? Over just removing them for everyone and increasing base out of combat run speed.

Or, even better:

• Increase OOC run speed by ~25% effective speed (so ~15% from what it is right now).
• Make all other speedboosts non-stacking with it.

Net result: Out of combat, everyone is the same. During combat, the difference in swiftness/signet availability can be used for class-balance.

Not all would be the same ooc. Any class with movement skills would be skyrockets.

OP: tell me one clas that doesnt have access to perma swiftness or at least a 25% speedbuff. Mesmers got blink. theyre basically a fast class. Engineer is slower. And i dont play necro that much but hes slower too i think.

Conclusion: youre trying to balance stuff around just one skill.

Speed signets don’t stack with Swiftness.
Zergs usually have constant Swiftness.

Plus many of the speed signets have horrible active abilities.

Necros have Signet of the Locust, but I still bought Speed runes because it’s such a terrible Signet.
Awful active ability.
I’d rather sacrifice my rune slots than an Utility skill slot.

With that said Mesmers are sorely lacking in Swiftness application.

Better idea.

If the game really plays that much better at 25% increased running speed then increase all running speed by 25% and remove these buffs, or if it doesn’t keep the speed as is and remove them anyway. Then knock those few remaining in traits down to 10%.

These 25% speed boosts are quickly becoming necessary on every single freaking build, it’s destroying diversity. When it comes down to it they are a binary build choice which has no affect against a similarly built character but create an insurmountable divide in gameplay against more diversely built characters. Stop punishing build diversity.

If you use staff as a mesmer, you can turn 180 degrees quickly, use phase retreat (staff 2 skill) then turn back around. You can use blink afterwards and cover some amazing distance. Also, blink can be traited to 1200 range on 24 second cd. That, plus phase retreating every 8 seconds is some sexy mobility on mesmer.

Phase retreat can be used like blink to get up walls and take short cuts. To be honest mesmer mobility is awesome and it can all be used in combat. When I first made my mesmer I thought the run speed was bad but as I learned my class I no longer have any issues keeping up with others or even chasing down roamers. Mesmer mobility is very good but not at first glance….you have to have a bit of skill

Also swap to focus when running out of combat. If you get good, you will be able to do this reliably to get swiftness without having to keep focus equipped. I’ve gotten to the point where I can swap so fast out of combat I can use it while being chased (as long as im out of combat for a split second, of course)

I agree with Conncept that the signets should be removed and natural movement speed increased to 25% for everyone. Although I think swiftness should remain but it should have shorter duration (no perma swiftness for anyone, not even 50% upkeep for any class) and the movement speed should be reduced to 15-20%. Balance the swiftness based around which classes need more access to it.

Traits should be dropped to 5% I think and given an extra function, they should also remove a good number of them.

Having no speed signet is a way to balance out the other powers of the Mesmer and the Guardian. Mesmers have very good in-combat mobility along with clones and a medium health pool, so they’re a bit slower for general movement speed. Guardians have incredible melee prowess and thrive in close combat so their lack of swiftness allows other classes to kite them around.

Having everyone has Passive 25% run signet skill and simply give everyone 25% move faster are 2 different thing altogether. This is like having 5 Utilities or 6 Utilities.

Siva Mira.3546:

Having everyone has Passive 25% run signet skill and simply give everyone 25% move faster are 2 different thing altogether. This is like having 5 Utilities or 6 Utilities.

Yes, and I’m saying that if we consider out of combat runspeed this necessary, we really should be asking for a unified, even, stable out of combat runspeed slightly faster than the current one.

Not for universal access to 25% signets, because the lack of these is an important in-combat balance for Guardians and Mesmers.

The GW2 maps are pretty small frankly.
If maps were bigger, you might want horses (that disappear when attacked or throw you and you get stunned) for just OOC speed.

The necro is supposed to be a sitting duck if alone straggling in WvW. But have you seen their condi spam in larger fights??? That is balance.

The thief is fast. But they only really do well picking off stragglers. Makes sense.

Most classes can get by reasonably well.

Last suggestion I would support.

Bombsaway.7198:

The necro is supposed to be a sitting duck if alone straggling in WvW. But have you seen their condi spam in larger fights??? That is balance.

In larger fights, conditions are pretty much useless due to group cleansing being so prevalent in zergs. Still a potent profession in those fights, but for other reasons.

In Moba game, everyone can buy Boot of Speed but that doesn’t mean everyone can run at the same speed and this also apply to GW2. A Necromancer can use his 25% speed Signet and yet he won’t out run a Thief, Warrior or Ranger.

And so what is the logic behind Guardian and Mesmer shouldn’t have 25% speed Signet? It is not like if they pick this Signet they won’t lose one other important Utility Skill on their bar.

I’m not convinced making everybody the same in one tiny area of performance counts as “balance”.

Incidentally my Guardian does have +25% speed forever – its called runes.

Bombsaway.7198:

The GW2 maps are pretty small frankly.
If maps were bigger, you might want horses (that disappear when attacked or throw you and you get stunned) for just OOC speed.

The necro is supposed to be a sitting duck if alone straggling in WvW. But have you seen their condi spam in larger fights??? That is balance.

A part of GW2’s charm was meant to be that any Profession could play any role, but do it differently.
In reality there are a few optimal Professions for any given role.

I don’t think that a Necro is meant to be a horrible roamer who Zergs all day.
It’s just that way because Anet keeps balancing most of the skills only by sPvP.
In sPvP the maps are small and holding capture points is important.

Necro’s whole design is just somewhat broken in PvE and WvW, in both directions.
There’s both really strong and really weak stuff.
For example a Necro in a big enough Zerg fight can often recover 100% Life Force within 1-5 seconds from deaths.
You are imba if people or mobs keep dying around you.

Yet Necros are so slow that roaming, dungeon running and champ farming are all are better done with some other Profession.

It isn’t just a Necro-only thing but a problem with the game as whole.
You don’t really want a Condition Guardian any more than you want a Blood Magic Necro.
Then there are some things you always expect, like Mesmers slotting Portal.

I believe that things will get better, eventually.
Might take quite a few years, though, at this rate.

Buy runes of the traveler, problem solved.

Giving everyone the same thing negates the need for different classes.

Necro’s said “Hi”

LastDay.3524:

A part of GW2’s charm was meant to be that any Profession could play any role, but do it differently.

Well, define “role”.
As in, list all the roles. Because I reckon the devs have a different list, and hence their idea of balance diverges quite a lot.

For example I’m not sure they really differentiate 1v1 vs 5v5 vs GvG vs ZvZ for WvW. They probably think in “smallscale” (anything group-level) and zergs. And that’s it.
The argument could be made that since the format doesn’t force numbers, there’s no reason to give a “fair fight”, and hence WvW balance below zergs is about escaping tactical disadvantage vs enforcing tactical advantage and little else, as the strategically superior side can and will pick the better tactical engagement, whether it means more numbers or full surprise. It’ll never be a “fair, skilled fight”, anyhow. Or rather you shouldn’t ever want it to be one.

Zaoda.1653:

A 25% passive increase in movement signet is something every class should have. Please make it happen.

Why not just let everyone run 25% faster instead of making people spend one of only a handful of skill slots on a passive ability that everyone wants or make them buy one of the two expensive rune sets for their armor? Is there some benefit to requiring players to jump through hoops for this?

Berk.8561:

Why not just let everyone run 25% faster instead of making people spend one of only a handful of skill slots on a passive ability that everyone wants or make them buy one of the two expensive rune sets for their armor? Is there some benefit to requiring players to jump through hoops for this?

Because that’s pure power creep.

Speed has value and the game respects that.

There’s a rune that does just that: increase your speed. If you need it that badly, bring the rune.

Base run speed should be increased by 25% in pve. If it’s such a huge balance issue in wvw and pvp, leave them as they are now.

I think it should be done to free up some design space. Given the limited number of utility slots and how lackluster most signets are, and how necessary the +25% runspeed is, it makes sense to revamp most signets to be actually useful, and I think the best way to do this is to make base run speed for everyone +25% of where it currently is.

Carighan.6758:

LastDay.3524:

A part of GW2’s charm was meant to be that any Profession could play any role, but do it differently.

Well, define “role”.
As in, list all the roles. Because I reckon the devs have a different list, and hence their idea of balance diverges quite a lot.

For example I’m not sure they really differentiate 1v1 vs 5v5 vs GvG vs ZvZ for WvW. They probably think in “smallscale” (anything group-level) and zergs. And that’s it.
The argument could be made that since the format doesn’t force numbers, there’s no reason to give a “fair fight”, and hence WvW balance below zergs is about escaping tactical disadvantage vs enforcing tactical advantage and little else, as the strategically superior side can and will pick the better tactical engagement, whether it means more numbers or full surprise. It’ll never be a “fair, skilled fight”, anyhow. Or rather you shouldn’t ever want it to be one.

At the very basics GW2’s trinity of roles was intended to be Damage, Control, Support.
Every Profession is meant to be capable of every role, but do things differently.
But also every stat is meant to be useful for every Profession.

Condi Guardians and a trap using Thieves, controlling enemy movements…
Both of those are intended to be useful builds.

However the Professions intentionally do lean towards certain roles.
For example whereas Guardians always leans towards Support, applying Boons even in DPS builds a Necro always leans towards Control, having lots of Condis like Cripple and Chill.

Thing is while roaming what you really want is speed.
Control can be useful, but plain old moving speed is usually better.
Unless the CC system is revamped to the point where you can use CCs as a Necro to escape from faster Professions then they will continue to be worse than certain other Professions at that job.
…unless Necros are simply made a bit faster, so that the combination of CC and a 600 range leap or w/e makes the speed difference a bit less drastic.

With that said WvW will always be inherently imbalanced, but I’d at least like the see the PvE side addressed better.

The only fight in PvE where Control is wanted right now is the Wurm fight.
Arenanet did a great job with the Wurm!
It will take time for all of GW2’s PvE to accommodate for all roles.
I believe it will happen slowly over time, though.

At this point I’ll point out that “do things differently” means that you achieve the same effect but in a different way.
For example a Bunker Guardian and a Thief specced for survivability will still be quite different, with the Guardian using tons of Boons, Healing and Blocks whereas the Thief is relying on Vigor, Blinds, Stealth, etc.

Also these just popped today!
If you look at the upcoming traits:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

There you see that some of the new traits try to reinforce the less wanted roles and less viable builds.

Anyway, ever since after that popped up I’ve been feeling a lot more optimistic about build diversity.
Now if only PvE was somehow altered to appreciate Healing and Control roles more, then perhaps being fast and dealing tons of damage wouldn’t be as important anymore.

I suppose that at this point it’s better I don’t talk too much until we get the new traits and see how they change things.
Perhaps we will see Healbot Eles and Bunker Necros everywhere, eh?
Ha, well probably not… but stranger things have happened!

Would totally love this actually. In a game without mounts it’s really really tiresome to be running everywhere. It really does get old. We need a system where it’s easier to move around that works better than a teleport system that can be contested and cut off players from events.

Seriously I see 0 problems with having this.

I’ve resorted to spending gold on one of the few seals that actually gives a faster run speed on my engineer because I was using a build that doesn’t use kits to get around and therefore did not get the trait for a faster run speed when switching kits (which is annoying actually because you’re constantly pushing a button to run faster). I would love the speed boost to be universal.

I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum.

If you give and ability to everyone, you might as well not give it to anyone.

Passive speed-increases are convenient, that’s why everyone loves them. But they don’t make for interesting game-play. It’s a choice of convenience vs. actual power and that’s not a good one.

Passive Signets also undermine the value of Swiftness, which is only 8% faster.

In my book it would be better to remove all the passive speed signets and replace them with something more interesting instead.

Nike.2631:

Because that’s pure power creep.

If the vast majority of players are already running sigils or runes that increase their speed by 25% (and based on what I’ve seen in WvW and PvE, that’s the case), the only “power creep” this would create is freeing up an additional skill slot that players could actively use in play, which I think would be a good thing in a game with only 3 non-elite utility skill slots.

Nike.2631:

Speed has value and the game respects that.

Speed has so much value that most people waste a skill slot or spend a significant amount of gold to get runes that otherwise don’t provide huge benefits to get the 25% boost. My point is not that it has no value. Of course it does. My point is that it’s so valuable that I can’t imagine anyone doing without it. A choice that everyone makes isn’t a choice, it’s a chore.

Superior Runes of the Traveller are currently the most expensive armor rune in for sale in the Trading Post at over 11 gold each. A full set would cost over 60 gold. Speed Runes are a cheaper, at around 2 and a half gold or more than 14 gold per set , but there is a reason for that (lackluster benefits otherwise) and they are still one of the 10 most expensive armor runes in the game. I have two sets of Traveller’s runes, from when they were cheaper Magic Find runes and before the price skyrocketed, so not being able to get them isn’t what I’m complaining about. What I’m complaining about is having to waste one of three non-elite utility skills on a passive boost that’s too important to ignore if I want a rune set that offers a different set of abilities. That doesn’t make my character more interesting to play or the game more nuanced and colorful. It wastes a skill slot on an ability that doesn’t really make my character more interesting to play nor the game more interesting and colorful.

What percentage of players do you think don’t use either runes or a sigil to boost their speed by 25%? And if I’m right, and the vast majority of players are using runes or sigils to boost their speed (should be easy enough for ANet to figure that out), then what choice or nuance is being added to the game by requiring players to exercise such a no-brainer non-decision?

And to be perfectly honest, the alternate solution would be to do away with all of the passive speed boosts, which would address my main concern (the waste of a utility skill slot on a no-brainer passive ability), but it’s my experience (and what I’ve heard from others) that an unboosted character simply feels like they move to slow, especially when the players have become used to having a 25% boost because just about everyone who can seems to be using that boost. I don’t know about you, but it’s one of the first skills I take (and how does that make the game more interesting for anyone)?

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum.

If you give and ability to everyone, you might as well not give it to anyone.

To be honest, I’m less concerned with whether everyone moves 25% faster or nobody does. My main concern is that just about everyone is wasting one of three non-elite utility skills or buying an expensive nice rune set to get the 25% boost and that’s more of a universal penalty than a choice. My only concern is that movement will feel too slow without the boost, but that may simply be a side-effect of the boost being so ubiquitous once characters are high enough level to get it.

Dee Jay.2460:

In my book it would be better to remove all the passive speed signets and replace them with something more interesting instead.

That is really the most important thing to me. I’d rather have one of my three non-elite utility skills be set to something that I actively use rather than a passive sigil that I feel obliged to select.

piffdaddy.8014:

If you use staff as a mesmer, you can turn 180 degrees quickly, use phase retreat (staff 2 skill) then turn back around. You can use blink afterwards and cover some amazing distance. Also, blink can be traited to 1200 range on 24 second cd. That, plus phase retreating every 8 seconds is some sexy mobility on mesmer.

Phase retreat can be used like blink to get up walls and take short cuts. To be honest mesmer mobility is awesome and it can all be used in combat. When I first made my mesmer I thought the run speed was bad but as I learned my class I no longer have any issues keeping up with others or even chasing down roamers. Mesmer mobility is very good but not at first glance….you have to have a bit of skill

Also swap to focus when running out of combat. If you get good, you will be able to do this reliably to get swiftness without having to keep focus equipped. I’ve gotten to the point where I can swap so fast out of combat I can use it while being chased (as long as im out of combat for a split second, of course)

Main-hand sword Illusionary Leap skill can used to attack a mob in front of you, then Swap and shatter before the clone reaches the target to avoid in-combat state. This also allows you to benefit from Compounding Celerity trait which increases your movement speed while the clone is out.

In next the feature patch you can reset traits on field. You can switch to Compounding Celerity and Far-Reaching Manipulations every time you get out of combat.

Very practical. Mesmers have no reason to complain about movement speed.