Guild Wars 2

From PvP forum -

Currently Live: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +28 Condition Damage
(2) 15% Confusion Duration
(3) +55 Condition Damage
(4) 20% chance to cause 3 stacks of confusions for 5s on hit. 15 ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +15% Confusion duration; Causes 5 stacks of confusion for 10 seconds on interrupt. 8s ICD

New Version: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) 10% Confusion Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4)) 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 25s ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. 15s ICD.

Significant #4 and #6 nerfs.

Thank you, nameless deity of games.

I’ve stated in other threads on the subject but it will probably a more interesting discussion here.

These will always be the best condition damage runes if you have decent interrupts. If you don’t have any at all then it’s no big deal if you use another set.

Just the 6 piece will keep these runes at the top of the food chain for condition damage unless krait, afflicted, tormenting are changed in a way to make you proc their, bleed, poison, or torment more reliably like perplexity runes does. Then it would be debatable based on the icd what the math says.

They can get rid of the 4 piece now tbh with this change just leave the 6. I hate when you get struck effects on runes unless it is a defensive oriented rune like earth.

I like the nerfs, they seem appropriate.

But I still despise this Rune-set after having to endure it for over half a year. It’’s still one of the few Rune sets you build your entire build around, just so you can exploit these Runes as much as possible.

Giving every class access to abundant Confusion, an incredibly powerful condition, is not a good idea given how conditions help cover each other and thus make each other more effective.

Dealing with 3 conditions is possible, dealing with 5 different conditions stressful and more than that often impossible for many classes and builds. And Perplexity Runes just make it that much easier to stack multiple different conditions in a passive manner.

finally!glad they nerfed it. dont get me wrong i used them on my mes but the way they worked on other classes was just stupid

They also revealed a Lyssa nerf; I didn’t notice them all, but I did notice that the 6pc bonus was “convert 3 conditions into boons”. Big change, obviously.

Sarrs.4831:

They also revealed a Lyssa nerf; I didn’t notice them all, but I did notice that the 6pc bonus was “convert 3 conditions into boons”. Big change, obviously.

It’s 5 conditions

Net result for the 6/6 user (like there’s anything else with these…)

-8 points of condition damage.
Confusion-when-hit instead of confusion-when-attacking & cooldown increases 10 seconds (66%).
Confusion-on-interrupt cooldown increases 7 seconds (87.5%) and base duration decreased 20%.

If you’re a butt-kicker with these now you’ll still be a butt-kicker, but the guy at the receiving end might be able to squirm out from under the beating you’re handing them.

Looks like a good adjustment me.

not much of a nerf

its actually quiet big as now it will be hard to stack for non confusion classes.

Relshdan.6854:

not much of a nerf

? #4 has gone from when YOU hit someone else to when YOU are hit. That means the one affected may not be the one you’re targetting. That’s a pretty big nerf.

jamesg.7128:

Relshdan.6854:

not much of a nerf

? #4 has gone from when YOU hit someone else to when YOU are hit. That means the one affected may not be the one you’re targetting. That’s a pretty big nerf.

I did notice a few people talking about Flame Barrier interacting with Blinding Ashes, in particular with minion based specs, and though it’s not quite the same thing- MM specs might gain a lot of benefit with their minions potentially soaking these high activation chance effects. I don’t know whether it’ll make for a big enough difference to make MM builds popular, but it could be a problem.

jamesg.7128:

? #4 has gone from when YOU hit someone else to when YOU are hit. That means the one affected may not be the one you’re targetting. That’s a pretty big nerf.

Good eye. Corrected in my summary.

So to get the full effect they actually have to be fighting you instead of running for their lives.

jamesg.7128:

Relshdan.6854:

not much of a nerf

? #4 has gone from when YOU hit someone else to when YOU are hit. That means the one affected may not be the one you’re targetting. That’s a pretty big nerf.

I hate procs like this on offensive runes. They should look at procs and adjust them more individually. Rune of earth is fine with that kind of proc it makes sense. Krait doesn’t with 1 bleed stack? Strength I would prefer it be when you strike instead of when struck. It just makes more sense and would be more diversity.

With when struck effects players will weigh the effect vs possible damage. Or ignore it if the 6th piece is really good.

Take strength nobody will care much for the 4 piece “when struck” if they can get good reliable might access BUT if they can get it they also won’t care about the “when struck” because they can produce might themselves.

selan.8354:

its actually quiet big as now it will be hard to stack for non confusion classes.

this is good.

but for confusion classes……its still strong (you’ll probably be tanky and you’re going to get “struck”) and the 6 slot is relatively the same.
but agree that the 4 slot is a significant nerf against pet/clone classes (like any “on struck” trait).

overall its a nerf…….but only a deal-breaker of a nerf for non-confusion classes….

This better not be kittening real. Source please ! kitten this nerf and kitten u anet if this is for real

It’s in the live stream from today you can check engi or necro forums for a pic of the new rune or reddit

BFMV.3198:

This better not be kittening real. Source please ! kitten this nerf and kitten u anet if this is for real

U MAD BRO

But seriously kitten this and kitten that, what exactly is troubling you there?
All I really noticed is that they want to normalize stats on the rune sets while weighing them within the trait system.

Secondly why is this thread even in the PROFESSION BALANCE subforum. Man they nerf perplexity going to have to reroll….Its a rune set not a… never mind I am going to start a thread requesting this subforum rename Insert Whine Here.

I don’t think this nerf is particularly well thought out. The set does need nerfing, but the 6th bonus looks unreliable, even for a class with a lot of interrupt access like the mesmer. Interrupt skills can fail to interrupt for a number of reasons : evades / target not using skills / stability etc. Combined with the low proc of 20%, you would be lucky if it proc’s even once – the shortish ICD of 15 secs seems irrelevant.

I thought one of the new patch’s features was to make rune and trait activation more reliable? Would prefer either the ICD be upped and / or the number of stacks be reduced for either a 50% or 100% activation chance on interrupt.

This sucks for most Condi ele builds. Hahving access to a new condition with a reasonable up time is what made the runeset valuable. Now i think it has lost all of that. Hoping the changes to other rune sets are good enough that we have solid alternatives to pick from.

I don’t see the reason for nerfing the runeset when it was certain classes that made it overpowered – Thief, Engineer and Warrior are the ones that made this Runeset amazingly strong.

All they needed to do was remove some of the confusion Engineer has (imo they shouldnt have any) remove the stupid warrior trait and increase the initiative cost of skills like Head Shot.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

I don’t think this nerf is particularly well thought out. The set does need nerfing, but the 6th bonus looks unreliable, even for a class with a lot of interrupt access like the mesmer. Interrupt skills can fail to interrupt for a number of reasons : evades / target not using skills / stability etc. Combined with the low proc of 20%, you would be lucky if it proc’s even once – the shortish ICD of 15 secs seems irrelevant.

I thought one of the new patch’s features was to make rune and trait activation more reliable? Would prefer either the ICD be upped and / or the number of stacks be reduced for either a 50% or 100% activation chance on interrupt.

You’re telling me you want the most broken rune set in the game to always be viable?

Good riddens, these runes were way to strong with an engi. Well deserved nerf, and politely done to where it isn’t destroyed.

its finally going to merely complement confusion builds instead of define the majority of condi builds! …hopefully.

Only took them like 9 months?

“You’re telling me you want the most broken rune set in the game to always be viable?”

No, just making an observation that the set shouldn’t be nerfed to the point where no-one sensible would take this set over other more reliable condition runes. The 6th bonus, the bonus meant to be the best in set, is mostly useless because it won’t activate reliably. 20% proc on 5 stacks of confusion is powerful but unreliable: it can’t be integrated into an attacker’s burst nor can a defender reliable counter, the 5 stacks of confusion will be completely unexpected. All it will encourage is interrupt spamming that will either tip the fight heavily in either the attacker or defender depending on whether it procs.

Nerf it by all means, just make it so that 6th bonus is reliable. Reduce the total damage done by the 6th bonus by decreasing stacks / decreasing duration / increasing ICD, then increase the proc chance. How about 50% chance on interrupt, with 4 stacks of confusion and a 35 second cool down?

[edit]
Yep, read it completely wrong as “20% confusion chance when you interrupt a foe”. Kinda liking the changes, reduces the viability of interrupt spam builds and increases the set’s effectiveness on mesmers with the increased confusion duration.

I don’t see a “20% chance to proc.” I see +20% confusion duration and a 100% chance to proc on interrupt.

One of us is reading it wrong.

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

It’s funny because this only is a nerf to classes that didnt have confusion before

This is still going to be viable for 3 classes
and maybe necro that tank’kittens in DS..

gG condi ele’s :P

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

Fixed? You want warrior, mesmer, engineer, to be fixed so that you can play condi Ele? What!

The classes and traits have been around since launch the runes came later I am sure the runes get changed before classes will that is crazy to suggest. The duration doesn’t even work on the runes currently anyone with a interrupt could abuse the 6 before the icd was added. Now you get 1 interrupt then it goes on icd if you put them on your condi ele then you still can use them post patch.

They are being nerfed because of interrupts on classes make them the best runes to run on your condi build. Really your condition ele will still be able to use the runes like you do now but the 4 piece is alot less controllable.

Look at lyssa they didn’t nerf low cooldown elites like basi and signet of rage because of lyssa they nerfed lyssa same logic applies here.

oZii.2864:

Fixed? You want warrior, mesmer, engineer, to be fixed so that you can play condi Ele? What!

Huh? did i even say anything about what i said was about my ele?
I play more than one character you know. This goes for all of them. I mean Mesmer is okay as they have to trait for it and such but Warrior having a better Confusion on interrupt as a trait that has no cool down? Its insane. Look at all the Confusion Engineer has as well

oZii.2864:

The classes and traits have been around since launch the runes came later I am sure the runes get changed before classes will that is crazy to suggest. The duration doesn’t even work on the runes currently anyone with a interrupt could abuse the 6 before the icd was added. Now you get 1 interrupt then it goes on icd if you put them on your condi ele then you still can use them post patch.

Yeah and the traits weren’t much of an issue until the extra confusion came along. On there own okay, with the runeset insane. Now does that mean that the runeset should be nerfed for everyone because of certain classes?

I have them on my ele, it is the 4/6 that i am more worried about. On attack was much better. We can’t really just stand around getting hit for it to proc. With lowest health and lowest armor the last thing we want is to be attacked.

oZii.2864:

They are being nerfed because of interrupts on classes make them the best runes to run on your condi build. Really your condition ele will still be able to use the runes like you do now but the 4 piece is alot less controllable.

It is fine on classes that either have no other access to Confusion or classes that can’t really spam them. That is what makes them so strong on Warrior and Engineer. They can still be rather strong on Mesmer but not to the same extent.

When the 6/6 is combined with the Warrior trait, that is A LOT of confusion. Engineer has SO much access to confusion on rather low cool downs as it is. With plenty of interrupts.

oZii.2864:

Look at lyssa they didn’t nerf low cooldown elites like basi and signet of rage because of lyssa they nerfed lyssa same logic applies here.

Lyssa is rather different though. I mean that had specific classes that was very good and others that it was pointless and was pretty much taken for the 6/6. Perplexity on the other hand was balanced for some classes and broken on others, now its going to be balanced for some classes, average at best for others.

Hope they release the full details of changes for other runesets so i can have a look and see what options i have. Already some decent options out there but they could be improved a bit before they are really viable.

The more interrupts your class has the bigger difference you will feel if you use these I think. Not much change for me.

Like someone said above, other runes might get nice boosts to make them worth using again.

oZii.2864:

Just the 6 piece will keep these runes at the top of the food chain for condition damage unless krait, afflicted, tormenting are changed in a way to make you proc their, bleed, poison, or torment more reliably like perplexity runes does. Then it would be debatable based on the icd what the math says.

Thing is, at 15s ICD, I’d argue for most classes the Traveller runes (which essentially gives you a utility slot) is more powerful.

Could anyone post a link to new rune’s changes?
I can t find anything around.
TY

LordByron.8369:

Could anyone post a link to new rune’s changes?
I can t find anything around.
TY

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/21/gw2-ready-up-episode-8-developer-livestream/

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/28/gw2-ready-up-episode-9-livestream-notes/

People spotted lyssa in the second live stream when they hovered over it slightly.

Rune is the same except it is convert up to 5 conditions to 5 boons instead of a full wipe. Basically a weaker contemplation of purity.

/dance
Yay at last !

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simonoly.4352:

Sounds like a far more balanced rune set now. Even with the 8 second ICD on the interrupt bonus, these runes have continued to be remarkably face-rollish in WvW. They would honestly be ridiculous in their current state in sPvP so this is definitely a positive change.

Its not the runes that made them faceroll easy. It was specific classes that already had good/insane access to Confusion. Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer were the worst ones with it. Thief thanks to being able to spam interrupts 3 or 4 times in a row with certain builds weren’t exactly easy to fight either.

They will continue to be strong because the root issue has been ignored – the classes that can abuse them have not been fixed so they can’t. Even with the nerf to it this is still a very strong Runeset for them, it just means for other classes that used them because they were a new condition its just a big nerf.

Why would they nerf the class, who was here to start with, and not nerf the runes? Can you explain that? So because Mesmer and engineer already have confusion and cc, and perplex adds more, you think they should just nerf the class? What if they don’t use perplex?

People are ridiculous in thinking these nerfs were unjustified. Runes were meant to fill the shoes of a build, not the meta (conditions).

NinjaEd.3946:

Why would they nerf the class, who was here to start with, and not nerf the runes? Can you explain that? So because Mesmer and engineer already have confusion and cc, and perplex adds more, you think they should just nerf the class? What if they don’t use perplex?

People are ridiculous in thinking these nerfs were unjustified. Runes were meant to fill the shoes of a build, not the meta (conditions).

So you think that nerfing a trait on a warrior and nerfing access to a condition on Engineer is really that big of a class nerf? They clearly felt the Confusion was too much and yet they have a trait on Warrior that gives LONGER duration Confusion with NO cool down and think that is fine? This is what i am talking about. That trait shouldn’t even be in the game or at least be given a 25-30second cool down and the amount of access to Confusion Engineer already has is insane.

You put this runeset on a Condition class that DOESN’T either have insane access to confusion or a insane amount of interrupts and it is fine. However when it is given to classes that have all of them it becomes VERY strong.

So why nerf the rune that was BALANCED for some classes instead of nerfing the few that was able to abuse it. This is Anets problem, it always has been they are terrible when it comes to balance.

All it would have taken is add a cool down to the Warrior trait and reduce the insane access to Confusion that Engineers have and it would have been fine.

As i have already said Mesmer is pretty much fine. They don’t have a lot of spammable CC or anything that can abuse it and the Confusion they do have is rather low in duration. Then look at Warrior insane number of interrupts and a trait that has NO cool down that can spam Confusion. Then look at Engineer who has A LOT of access to both confusion AND Interrupts. All that needed to be done:

Warrior:
Distracting Strikes: Add a 25-30 second Cool down.

Engineer:
Static Shot – reduce duration from 3 to 2seconds.
Pry Bar – Reduce Stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 20 seconds
Concussion Bomb – Reduce stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 25 seconds.

Thief:
Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

That is pretty much it. That would mean the Runeset would still be strong but not insanely strong with specific classes that can abuse them unlike other classes that can’t. Of course anyone that actually plays these classes would say no because who would want the class you play to be nerfed (well really fixed) even when its something that is SO obviously broken and abused they still would rather it stay that way (Warrior Mobility for example)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thief: Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

… So basically. The skill deals close no dmg. It deals 0.25s daze. Its only utility is being an interrupt. And you want the skill nerfed, because of a runeset. Well, kitten logic.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

NinjaEd.3946:

Why would they nerf the class, who was here to start with, and not nerf the runes? Can you explain that? So because Mesmer and engineer already have confusion and cc, and perplex adds more, you think they should just nerf the class? What if they don’t use perplex?

People are ridiculous in thinking these nerfs were unjustified. Runes were meant to fill the shoes of a build, not the meta (conditions).

So you think that nerfing a trait on a warrior and nerfing access to a condition on Engineer is really that big of a class nerf? They clearly felt the Confusion was too much and yet they have a trait on Warrior that gives LONGER duration Confusion with NO cool down and think that is fine? This is what i am talking about. That trait shouldn’t even be in the game or at least be given a 25-30second cool down and the amount of access to Confusion Engineer already has is insane.

You put this runeset on a Condition class that DOESN’T either have insane access to confusion or a insane amount of interrupts and it is fine. However when it is given to classes that have all of them it becomes VERY strong.

So why nerf the rune that was BALANCED for some classes instead of nerfing the few that was able to abuse it. This is Anets problem, it always has been they are terrible when it comes to balance.

All it would have taken is add a cool down to the Warrior trait and reduce the insane access to Confusion that Engineers have and it would have been fine.

As i have already said Mesmer is pretty much fine. They don’t have a lot of spammable CC or anything that can abuse it and the Confusion they do have is rather low in duration. Then look at Warrior insane number of interrupts and a trait that has NO cool down that can spam Confusion. Then look at Engineer who has A LOT of access to both confusion AND Interrupts. All that needed to be done:

Warrior:
Distracting Strikes: Add a 25-30 second Cool down.

Engineer:
Static Shot – reduce duration from 3 to 2seconds.
Pry Bar – Reduce Stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 20 seconds
Concussion Bomb – Reduce stacks from 5 to 3. Increase cool down to 25 seconds.

Thief:
Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

That is pretty much it. That would mean the Runeset would still be strong but not insanely strong with specific classes that can abuse them unlike other classes that can’t. Of course anyone that actually plays these classes would say no because who would want the class you play to be nerfed (well really fixed) even when its something that is SO obviously broken and abused they still would rather it stay that way (Warrior Mobility for example)

If you are going to nerf confusion for one class you do it for all..not just conveniently leave the class that has access to a lot of confusion and decent stealth up-time out of the equation.

Or…we could just nerf warrior’s

..like…
Why do they even have confusion?! 0_o

Pavel.8531:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thief: Head Shot – increase Initiative from 4 to 6

… So basically. The skill deals close no dmg. It deals 0.25s daze. Its only utility is being an interrupt. And you want the skill nerfed, because of a runeset. Well, kitten logic.

It is the fact it can be spammed over and over again. Combine that with Perplexity and its insane. Sure now that the 6/6 has a cool down it can’t proc Confusion every time but having an Interrupt on such a cost just doesn’t fit.

Even without the Runset being able to interrupt someone up to 4 to times one right after another isn’t skillful play, its spamming 1 button until you can’t spam it any more. Look at all the cool downs other classes get. The lowest is what 7 seconds with a trait and a specific weapon. Even without the Runset is is still a little bit too powerful. Seeing as it pretty much has a 4second cool down (1 initiative earned every 1 second) of course ignoring all other traits and such that grant more.

Solori.6025:

If you are going to nerf confusion for one class you do it for all..not just conveniently leave the class that has access to a lot of confusion and decent stealth up-time out of the equation.

Or…we could just nerf warrior’s

..like…
Why do they even have confusion?! 0_o

To be honest, i don’t think Warrior or Engineer should have Confusion at all. Also i count nerfs to 3 classes – Warrior Engineer and a minor one to Thief. Remember Engineer has access to stealth AND has better confusion access than Mesmer.

Mesmer Confusion:

Confusing Images – Channeled 1 stack per 1 second. 12second Cool down
Chaos Armor – RNG Proc. 35second cool down
Cry of Frustration – 30 second cool down. Max 3 stacks

Confusing Combatants – 25point trait. 1 stack of Confusion on clone death.
Illisionary Retribution – 5 point trait. Adds 1-3 stack of confusion to each shatter skill
Blinding Befuddlement – 1 stack of confusion on blind. 5 second cool down

That is the access Mesmer get. It looks decent, but in actual gameplay it doesnt really work out like that. For the class that was meant to be the Confusion class they have rather poor access to it compared to say Engineer. No one takes (or should take) Blinding Befuddlement. IR is rather weak unless you are high up in Illusions, in which case you are more than likely a shatter build. Could be Condi-Shatter.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

To be honest, i don’t think Warrior or Engineer should have Confusion at all. Also i count nerfs to 3 classes – Warrior Engineer and a minor one to Thief. Remember Engineer has access to stealth AND has better confusion access than Mesmer.

Mesmer Confusion:

Confusing Images – Channeled 1 stack per 1 second. 12second Cool down
Chaos Armor – RNG Proc. 35second cool down
Cry of Frustration – 30 second cool down. Max 3 stacks

Confusing Combatants – 25point trait. 1 stack of Confusion on clone death.
Illisionary Retribution – 5 point trait. Adds 1-3 stack of confusion to each shatter skill
Blinding Befuddlement – 1 stack of confusion on blind. 5 second cool down

That is the access Mesmer get. It looks decent, but in actual gameplay it doesnt really work out like that. For the class that was meant to be the Confusion class they have rather poor access to it compared to say Engineer. No one takes (or should take) Blinding Befuddlement. IR is rather weak unless you are high up in Illusions, in which case you are more than likely a shatter build. Could be Condi-Shatter.

Well with the new patch we are going to see some condi shatter’s because of the news GM trait.

Mesmer has in my experience great access to conditions mainly because of the stealth uptime which, depending on how you are built, is really decent.

You forgot to add that on top of having confusion last 33% longer we also have a phantasm that add’s 3 stacks of confusion on a relatively low CD and we can have multiple of them.

Shattering illusions can grant you anywhere from 3-8 stacks of confusion ( the 8 comes from the runes that will be nerfed ((lol)) )

I wouldn’t say our confusion upkeep is worse than an engineer’s. I would say our burst confusion is worse, but our sustain is much greater.

From my experience from playing both classes I fear mesmer condi’s much more than I fear engineer’s

This “Nerf” is a kittenin joke

So a dev comes out and says

We are reducing engi Mesmer and warrior confusion because we are adding a new rune!!

Not happening ever

Solori.6025:

Well with the new patch we are going to see some condi shatter’s because of the news GM trait.

Mesmer has in my experience great access to conditions mainly because of the stealth uptime which, depending on how you are built, is really decent.

You forgot to add that on top of having confusion last 33% longer we also have a phantasm that add’s 3 stacks of confusion on a relatively low CD and we can have multiple of them.

Shattering illusions can grant you anywhere from 3-8 stacks of confusion ( the 8 comes from the runes that will be nerfed ((lol)) )

I wouldn’t say our confusion upkeep is worse than an engineer’s. I would say our burst confusion is worse, but our sustain is much greater.

From my experience from playing both classes I fear mesmer condi’s much more than I fear engineer’s

That is true, though i didn’t see any number of how many Stacks the Torment would inflict, it could be a VERY solid option when you combine it with the 5point trait. The problem with Mesmer is when they go up against another Condi build. They have terrible access to condition removal.

The Phantasm though is rather poor. I just never really have liked the Torch. that is true Mesmer does have that extending trait. If you are like me and only 15 into Illusions (currently) i prefer Confusing Cry. Combined with IR it can be very helpful

Without any outside help you could get 6stacks of Confusion trait the traits. If you got lucky with the hit you could get more though as you said that won’t happen with the nerfs coming to Perplexity.

Totally agree. You have better sustain of confusion where as Engineer as MUCH the better burst and that itself is part of the problem. Who would take sustain of a couple of stacks of Confusion throughout the fight over being able to burst Confusion i have seen some Engineers alone hitting upwards of 16 stacks and that is without Perplexity and all the knockbacks and everything they have.

Having played Condi builds against both, Engineer is much harder to fight. If the Mesmer is pure Condi they just don’t have enough direct damage to really get you down faster than you can heal up (i play Condi Ele) Where as Engineer just has SO many conditions that they can easily spam, unless you are specifically built to counter them and they are semi decent you will lose.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Solori.6025:

Well with the new patch we are going to see some condi shatter’s because of the news GM trait.

Mesmer has in my experience great access to conditions mainly because of the stealth uptime which, depending on how you are built, is really decent.

You forgot to add that on top of having confusion last 33% longer we also have a phantasm that add’s 3 stacks of confusion on a relatively low CD and we can have multiple of them.

Shattering illusions can grant you anywhere from 3-8 stacks of confusion ( the 8 comes from the runes that will be nerfed ((lol)) )

I wouldn’t say our confusion upkeep is worse than an engineer’s. I would say our burst confusion is worse, but our sustain is much greater.

From my experience from playing both classes I fear mesmer condi’s much more than I fear engineer’s

That is true, though i didn’t see any number of how many Stacks the Torment would inflict, it could be a VERY solid option when you combine it with the 5point trait. The problem with Mesmer is when they go up against another Condi build. They have terrible access to condition removal.

True..if they dont build or plan around it.

Usually if I fight another condi build, depending on what it is I save my invuln’s and evades for their " shazam" combo.

Fighting a necro however, i will admit, they give me a really good run for my money if i step on a well placed or lucky mark.

The Phantasm though is rather poor. I just never really have liked the Torch.

Torch is a greatly overlooked weapon, and so is it’s trait.

For me torch is an added condition removal as well as a great re-positioning tool.
Probably the reason why I dont mind fighting condi builds on my mesmer.

Totally agree. You have better sustain of confusion where as Engineer as MUCH the better burst and that itself is part of the problem. Who would take sustain of a couple of stacks of Confusion throughout the fight over being able to burst Confusion i have seen some Engineers alone hitting upwards of 16 stacks and that is without Perplexity and all the knockbacks and everything they have.

I know of the combo and it takes one condi cleanse to clear that immediately.

But the combo itself isnt the easiest to pull off either and requires the opponent to sit in an immobilize and forget to cleanse it or use a move to become invulneable, or re-position themselves away from the oncoming prybar.

This is one of those instances where if you get caught inside of this you deserve to suffer for it.

Having played Condi builds against both, Engineer is much harder to fight. If the Mesmer is pure Condi they just don’t have enough direct damage to really get you down faster than you can heal up (i play Condi Ele) Where as Engineer just has SO many conditions that they can easily spam, unless you are specifically built to counter them and they are semi decent you will lose.

I haven’t seen a good condi ele as of yet, but i have seen a lot of PVT tank ele’s recently.
How do you deal with necro’s? as a condi ele?

Surprised to see the odd complaint about this. Honestly speaking, it’s still an extremely potent rune set.

As Condi Ele the only real issues i have are with Necro and Engineer, i mean i CAN kill them if everything goes exactly right. Engineer is easier in terms of that they don’t really have that much to offer in condition cleanse and with the nerf to that auto mated response trait it will make it a bit easier.

The problem comes when i have to be in melee to deal any damage or inflict conditions and they can just spam marks and grenades until i get into melee range which means a lot of conditions and having to use removals even before getting anything on them. Engineers will just spam EVERY Grenade kit skill as you are getting into range and then just go with Tool belt or Pistol/Shield until the cooldowns are back off. The insane access to Poison and Confusion hurts a lot.

Mesmer the aim is simple – pressure them as much as you can, AoE Burning works great against them and the illusions. Don’t let up. They go stealth kill the phantasms and clones. until they return. I run with Doom and Reaper of Grenth as well which helps a little bit.

When they go stealth use that little bit of time to remove conditions. Going Water, Dodge roll and then Dagger #5 is pretty solid. Save Ether Renewal until you are about 70% if you can.

6 is basically a buff if you produce ANY confusion from some other source than the #6 itself.

Player Character.9467:

6 is basically a buff if you produce ANY confusion from some other source than the #6 itself.

Are you by chance talking about the +20% Confusion Duration? Cos they took +5% from the (2) bonus so it ends up the same anyway.