Guild Wars 2

6/x/x/x/x
Pistol/Whatever
Balthazar Runes
Rabid or Celestial
Doom Sigil
Geomancy Sigil
Grenade Kit, Tool Kit, anything else (usually Elixir S)

Let me put this into perspective:
- When you heal you AOE burn for 5s.
- When you do literally anything you burn for 8s.
- Every 9s you inflict poison for 7.8s.
- Every 9s you inflict 3 stacks of AOE bleed for 13s.

Really? On top of everything else that an engineer can do?
None of that is balanced. It’s not the classes that are overpowered – it’s the EQUIPMENT.
(other than the odd exception of an overpowered trait such as incendiary powder)

How do you fix this?:

Sigil of Geomancy – Inflicts 1 stack of AOE bleed for 5s on weapon swap.
No long defines an entire build. Comparable to Sigil of Earth because this is AOE.

Rune of Balthazar – Reduce burn from 45% to 30%; burn is now 1s instead of 3s.
Every other rune in the entire game is 30% burn duration. A 3s burn is also better than any burn that any other rune in the entire game inflicts – those burns being 1s long.

Sigil of Doom- 30% chance on hit to inflict poison for 2s (cooldown:10s)
Why should this even be a weapon swap sigil? This balances the sigil like sigil of ice.

Incendiary Powder – Nerf it like dhuumfire.
How? I do not know.

its funny how dhuumfire was too op on a necro but its fine on an engie… and how lich was too op but supply crate is perfectly fine… at least you could avoid lich -.- but hey anet balancing.. they think necro is the most op class in the game and just nerf nerf nerf…………………….

Not sure how your comparing supply crate to lick form. The comparison isn’t even remotely, reasonably close. Not to mention it is completely and pointlessly off topic.

As an engineer main, I do net feel needing the runes is where to start. I feel the thing to start with is IP. I understand that it was designed to assist in compensating for weak auto attacks after they nerfed the pistols in the beta. People have complained about long before the runes were changed. Personally I would be fine with changing it so that it is no longer a passive proc on crit chance, and made into a trait that does something such as a trait that gives the long shield skills a 2s burn on the shield skills when they effect a player with the shields cc or what not.

Agree with you OP, not really sure what needs to be done to bring it into line, but balth runes and IP is a good start.

Make IP dodge able and all engis specs will be balanced overall.

IP balances out the rubbish auto attack damage. If you add together IP + auto attack bleed damage most other builds still deal more auto attack damage. If you want IP nerfed (yet again) you would need to buff eng’s other damage sources to compensate. This would probably wind up being a net buff to eng since it would free up a trait slot and eng wouldn’t need to worry about balancing their crit %’s as much (to proc ip) either.

Necro getting burning in addition to its other conds later on in the game is not the same as eng having IP for burning which it has always had.

Lich vs crate is apples and oranges as well.

Sigil of doom is whatever to me. I don’t run it because with nade + pistol I already have two sources of poision.

Geomance you need to be close to your target for the aoe bleeds (not always what you want). On top of that eng’s auto attack brings the bleed stacks to the front of the pile so it’s more easily cleansed.

The big problem with the IP is it is such as large part of an engis damage, that when fighting them it doesn’t matter really what you dodge, as all the skills do about the same amount of damage, since they can all apply IP. This makes avoiding their key skills seem really un rewarding and pointless which regardless of whether it is op or not, is not fun to play with or against.

I agree with the OP completely. IP/balth runes is way too strong and needs a nerf or rework. However, IP is basically what makes condi engi viable so it would have to be changed/nerfed very carefully. I also agree on the sigil nerfs, however add sigil of battle into that list and this game will get a lot better balance wise.

Aberrant.6749:

IP balances out the rubbish auto attack damage. If you add together IP + auto attack bleed damage most other builds still deal more auto attack damage. If you want IP nerfed (yet again) you would need to buff eng’s other damage sources to compensate. This would probably wind up being a net buff to eng since it would free up a trait slot and eng wouldn’t need to worry about balancing their crit %’s as much (to proc ip) either.

Necro getting burning in addition to its other conds later on in the game is not the same as eng having IP for burning which it has always had.

Lich vs crate is apples and oranges as well.

Sigil of doom is whatever to me. I don’t run it because with nade + pistol I already have two sources of poision.

Geomance you need to be close to your target for the aoe bleeds (not always what you want). On top of that eng’s auto attack brings the bleed stacks to the front of the pile so it’s more easily cleansed.

oh god heaven forbid you guys have a weakness

engie is supposed to be countered by ranged kiting, IP completely negates that by inflicting the strongest single application condi passively

They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.

sinject.4607:

Aberrant.6749:

IP balances out the rubbish auto attack damage. If you add together IP + auto attack bleed damage most other builds still deal more auto attack damage. If you want IP nerfed (yet again) you would need to buff eng’s other damage sources to compensate. This would probably wind up being a net buff to eng since it would free up a trait slot and eng wouldn’t need to worry about balancing their crit %’s as much (to proc ip) either.

Necro getting burning in addition to its other conds later on in the game is not the same as eng having IP for burning which it has always had.

Lich vs crate is apples and oranges as well.

Sigil of doom is whatever to me. I don’t run it because with nade + pistol I already have two sources of poision.

Geomance you need to be close to your target for the aoe bleeds (not always what you want). On top of that eng’s auto attack brings the bleed stacks to the front of the pile so it’s more easily cleansed.

oh god heaven forbid you guys have a weakness

engie is supposed to be countered by ranged kiting, IP completely negates that by inflicting the strongest single application condi passively

“You guys” makes it sound like you think I only play eng… I play all classes regularly.

Eng has multiple weaknesses. It lacks cond removal and is weak against cc. Since eng is a mid ranged fighter, outranging an eng also can work as you pointed out… unless you’re getting hit by extremely slow moving nades at long distances I guess? I mean… how else are you getting hit at such long distances to where IP is even getting procced?

Your post leads me to believe you don’t play eng or have a good grasp of the class. You also can’t just say “omg they apply burning on crit, OP!” you need to look at the class as a whole.

Chokolata.1870:

They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.

That’s fine as long as it’s compensated fairly elsewhere.

why do you think I was comparing lich to supply crate? I know they are completely different skills, the thing they have in common is they can/could turn the tide of a fight. people complained lich got the nurf hammer but supply crate got nothing done to it

Chokolata.1870:

They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.

That’s fine as long as it’s compensated fairly elsewhere.[/quote]

why should you get compensation? nobody else does.

unlucky.9285:

why do you think I was comparing lich to supply crate? I know they are completely different skills, the thing they have in common is they can/could turn the tide of a fight. people complained lich got the nurf hammer but supply crate got nothing done to it

Net turret was nerfed in the recent past because it being a component of the crate eliete, but lich wasn’t nerfed back then. It was obviously necro favoritism! (Sarcasm to hopefully show how this is poor logic)

Why is a necro complaining about eng btw? Necro rotflstomps eng. It’s the hardest counter in the game imo. 2nd hp bar very resistant to conds, heal that noms the conds, cc with no real tell (since staff hand waves are all the same), can toss all their conds back onto the eng, more cc, throw on more conds of their own… it’s pretty much everything an eng could be weak against in one package.

unlucky.9285:

Chokolata.1870:

They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.

That’s fine as long as it’s compensated fairly elsewhere.

why should you get compensation? nobody else does.

[/quote]

Oh so you just want a str8 up eng nerf and not even a redesign. In general the dev’s do compensate when they nerf one aspect of a class. There are exceptions when they’ve overbuffed a class and it needs to be brought in line with the others though.

I don’t think eng is so strong to where this would be necessary. The dev’s have recently talked about eng being too weak to conditions and would like to make that less of an issue. I really don’t foresee them nerfing eng before they take care of that.

Aberrant.6749:

sinject.4607:

Aberrant.6749:

IP balances out the rubbish auto attack damage. If you add together IP + auto attack bleed damage most other builds still deal more auto attack damage. If you want IP nerfed (yet again) you would need to buff eng’s other damage sources to compensate. This would probably wind up being a net buff to eng since it would free up a trait slot and eng wouldn’t need to worry about balancing their crit %’s as much (to proc ip) either.

Necro getting burning in addition to its other conds later on in the game is not the same as eng having IP for burning which it has always had.

Lich vs crate is apples and oranges as well.

Sigil of doom is whatever to me. I don’t run it because with nade + pistol I already have two sources of poision.

Geomance you need to be close to your target for the aoe bleeds (not always what you want). On top of that eng’s auto attack brings the bleed stacks to the front of the pile so it’s more easily cleansed.

oh god heaven forbid you guys have a weakness

engie is supposed to be countered by ranged kiting, IP completely negates that by inflicting the strongest single application condi passively

“You guys” makes it sound like you think I only play eng… I play all classes regularly.

Eng has multiple weaknesses. It lacks cond removal and is weak against cc. Since eng is a mid ranged fighter, outranging an eng also can work as you pointed out… unless you’re getting hit by extremely slow moving nades at long distances I guess? I mean… how else are you getting hit at such long distances to where IP is even getting procced?

You also can’t just say “omg they apply burning on crit, OP!” you need to look at the class as a whole.

Chokolata.1870:

They should just nerf IP burn duration to say 3 seconds and be done with it.

That’s fine as long as it’s compensated fairly elsewhere.

you guys dont need to be compensated elsewhere. the problem is that IP does damage that shouldnt exist in the first place.

1. the level of condi pressure needed to actually make an engineer sweat is only found in the extreme end of the spectrum, where only engie and necro can go and still remain viable.
2. rifle and longbow are the only things that natively outrange pistol, leaving only warrior and ranger to actually outrange engie.

the fact is engineers have a ridiculous amount of on point pressure and this gives you the biggest pvp advantage out of every profession in the game. you wanna fall back on the same tired arguments that you guys are weak to condi and range but the fact is very few things can actually bring those counters in a meaningful way because they end up being too niche to fight other common things like how warriors’ beserker stance/cleansing ire hardcounters condi necro so immediately it’s that much less viable.

Again with the “you guys”? Really?

So this http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fragmentation_Shot just by itself seems fine to you? I disagree. I find that it’s balanced compared to the other auto attacks in conjunction with IP though…

A good P/D thief can apply enough cond pressure and evade an eng to where it’s a problem. Cond rangers can shrug off and avoid conds well while applying their own. It really depends on the skill of the players involved which is a good thing.

Pistol has a base of 900, can be increased to 1050 through a trait (which is pretty unusual but not unseen). Any 1,200 range weapon will work. At 1,200 nades are so slow they shouldn’t be an issue… so you’re missing a quite few in there…

I would rather fight a war on my necro than fight a necro on my eng… esp. after this recent war nerfing.

I agree with the “what to change”-suggestions.

Runes and Sigils are way too powerful to be healthy for the game, independent of mode. Depending on class and mode you play you are quite locked into a specific selection of them because of how much they add to anything. This also means that even the tiniest imbalance makes 90%+ of them unused as there’s no point equipping them.

Seeing as how many dislike the traits level of passive effect, they should just find an alternative idea for that trait slot and integrate the damage into the MH pistol in some form as well as the rifle. In my opinion, it would open up a bit more build diversity. My biggest question here would be how to do that, as well as what to turn that trait into in return.

As far as the inaccurate claim to ranged, how would you claim engies are intended to be weak to ranged with 1500 ranges grenades? Or when the devs have specifically stated engineers weakness as a lack of condition removal?

As an engineer, I am on the side that is against the passive of IP if compensated to a congruent level. But you have to at least be reasonable and remotely factual with your arguments, if you want to have the debate

sinject.4607:

you guys dont need to be compensated elsewhere. the problem is that IP does damage that shouldnt exist in the first place.

Because more then one Anet post in the past has explained the trait was implemented and designed to compensate for weak auto attack and sustained damage on the weapons sets. It is well known and well documented.

Coglin I would love to see you actually hit an aware target at 1,500 range with nades. Yea they sped up the nades a little bit a long time ago (about when they nerfed nade damage by 33% iirc), but they are still very sluggish and extremely easy to avoid beyond close->mid ranged fights, especially by a half decent player. Eng does well in close->mid but unless the target is already occupied/unaware of the eng you’re not going to hit much until you close the gap. You can litterally just walk out of the target area before they land.

They were talking about how eng were forced to back off too easily when they were cond pressured and they wanted to fix that (the point was brought up by grouch). I’m not going to go searching through and finding out which video it was in, but it was one of their official ones semi recently (not long before this recent balance update).

I was simply stating what they devs officially posted as the engineers intentionally balanced in, weakness. Not the semantics of grenades value at max range. Personally I have no problem with ranged because of shield reflect, magnet, and rocket boots.

The funny thing is that Lich doesn’t hit turrets.

It’s funny because I remember a good friend of mine making this thread (specifically about IP) and he got shouted down by the spamgineer e-sports crowd.

Burning in general is a huge design issue, it’s always been an overwhelming make-or-break presence (just look at what giving Nec burning did to the class).

I get the feeling it was originally intended to force an end to engagements, but it’s not like GW2 has the lengthiest TTK around and it’s just one of the worst ways to go about it anyway, my opponent should be respawning because they were outclassed not because they brought a box of napalm to a game of rock paper scissors.

Coglin, just because the devs don’t state something, doesn’t make it wrong/false/whatever.

So… semantics =‘s reality in this situation I guess? ’Cause I would say it’s more semantics that nades have a 1,500 range since you’re not going to hit much at 1,500 range with them. Eng is a close to mid ranged fighter and I’m ok with that. I don’t know if you take offense to that or have something to say to the contrary or ???

Shim I don’t have an inherent problem with burning. It’s well balanced in that it stacks in duration and not intensity. Other conditions can deal more damage than burning because of this. IMO it really just depends on who has the burning. I find it fine on eng.

Zefrost.3425:

2x Doom Sigils
2x Geomancy Sigils

lol what. Have fun trying to equip an engi with four sigils.

That type of engi spec has lots of offensive but is so easy to focus down. 1 stun break on a 1min cd and 2 condition cleanse every 20sec. Its an offensive engi build but very very susceptible to condition and cc. If I am on my thief I just spam daze an let my team kill him.

Aberrant.6749:

‘Cause I would say it’s more semantics that nades have a 1,500 range since you’re not going to hit much at 1,500 range with them.

Your displayed aggression suggest your taking this a little too personal. I am not sure semantics means what you think it means. It is quite literally a fact that they have that range when the grenadier trait is in the build. Besides, you can very often hit folks at that range. If they are making effort to avoid your lobs, you now have control of the movement in battle to at least some extent. You should use this opportunity to herd your opponent in directions that favor you in the battle. given the range on grenades, the 1200 possible range on rifle, the 1200 range on pistol MH 1, and 1050 on the subsequent other 2 MH pistol attacks, a wall that stops or reflects projectiles, the low recast of gear shield, 1500 range attacking kit, 1200 range pull, reflect and block on the shield, a full invulnerability, access to perma-vigor, a 900 range gap closing or making leap, and so on, I hardly call “ranged” the engineers weakness. Granted the engie has more reliable damage out put at mid-range, I do not feel dealing with range is the professions weakness. It may not be a strength, but I certainly do not call it a weakness.

nerfing IP would be enough tbh

Is this PvP? You do know that spec is weak against conditions,range burst,cc and focus fire. Let me guess you lost 1v1….Were you spec to counter…even a little bit?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Aberrant.6749:

‘Cause I would say it’s more semantics that nades have a 1,500 range since you’re not going to hit much at 1,500 range with them.

Your displayed aggression suggest your taking this a little too personal. I am not sure semantics means what you think it means. It is quite literally a fact that they have that range when the grenadier trait is in the build. Besides, you can very often hit folks at that range. If they are making effort to avoid your lobs, you now have control of the movement in battle to at least some extent. You should use this opportunity to herd your opponent in directions that favor you in the battle. given the range on grenades, the 1200 possible range on rifle, the 1200 range on pistol MH 1, and 1050 on the subsequent other 2 MH pistol attacks, a wall that stops or reflects projectiles, the low recast of gear shield, 1500 range attacking kit, 1200 range pull, reflect and block on the shield, a full invulnerability, access to perma-vigor, a 900 range gap closing or making leap, and so on, I hardly call “ranged” the engineers weakness. Granted the engie has more reliable damage out put at mid-range, I do not feel dealing with range is the professions weakness. It may not be a strength, but I certainly do not call it a weakness.

Displayed agression? I’m fine man, but thanks for the concern Wasn’t trying to make anyone feel defensive either.

Sorry you didn’t understand the point I was making. Yes technically the nades fly 1,500. You can use that to move people around a little, but that’s the most you’ll probably get out of it. If some one wanted to they could simply move left after the first toss, then back right again for the next. Not much of a gain (even for herding) unless something else is preventing them from doing that. You’re probably not going to hit an aware target at 1,500 with nades… they are simply too slow for that to happen reliably when you can walk out of the aoe radius before they even land. “Very often” is a vague overstatement. It’s slightly easier than trying to hit something at 1,200 with a guard scepter. Sure it’s technically possible since they travel that far, but it’s probably not going to happen and certainly not reliably.

I didn’t call it the professions weakness. What I said was “outranging an eng also can work”. If you’re able to keep the eng away he’s not going to be hurting you very much so IP shouldn’t be an issue. Magnet has a long obvious cast time and shouldn’t be hard to avoid at 1,200. It’s uncommon to trait for rifled barrels and take a rifle in a cond build, some celest builds do use it though. Blocks can help close the gap agreed. So yea… eng is a close to mid range fighter and if you’re able to keep your distance you can use that against the eng because they are weaker at longer distances.

make IP proc only while in crate form like necros.. that should fix it.

This is what happens when you keep nerfing warriors, engineer’s main stunlock nemesis into the ground. Warriors were good at clearing + dealing with cond, something plaguing PvP, skill less cond players running tank while dumping obscene cond effortlessly.

Condition builds = Low risk, high reward. Power builds = high risk, low reward. Shame A-Net hates thieves + shatter mes and favor the mess that is what you see now. Almost every single build you see now that works is all about how well you can clear conditions or throw conditions at people. Yawn

Totally agree with OP. Engis can take away 50% life in a second easily at first sight.

Players who counter this kind of engis are put in an unfair situation.

Air + fire sigils proc on crit hits, and its 50%. What’s people’s base crit chance with zerker? 40%, so like 20% chance to proc the kitten thing. Doom sigil + geo is on swap no need to deal with RNG and works with tanky setups. Running power spec means power, precision, crit dmg. Condition spec, just cond LOL. What a joke, so yes power spec = high risk, cond spec = low risk.

Guyver.1426:

Totally agree with OP. Engis can take away 50% life in a second easily at first sight.

Players who counter this kind of engis are put in an unfair situation.

Are you suggesting damage over time conditions are doing that damage in that amount of time?

inb4
Static Discharge engineer 2 OP, NERF!