Please stop comparing across professions
1 2
Like I said earlier…stop complaining about what other classes can do well, and figure out what your class can do well.
Mesmer : In competitive Large Scale Organizations = Veil bot! = Not ethic, Not Fair to nature of gaming.. and absurd Risk/Reward for mesmer! And still getting unlogical nerfs(or how u like to say bugfixes).. AND,
- Anets behave on mesmers.. (all lie what they say)[probable they know it alrready = slacking]
- Solution: Mesmer should have to be most buyer gems on tp class and intimidate anet as not to buy gems anymore if etc etc.. lol :P as well my other coins can go eng or ranger but i cant talk about them cuz of lacking knowladge/exoeriance with them in GvG or WvW raids..
- Extra: Veil Bot means: mesmer doesnt require/not having seat in organized large scale groups except Veil skill for inv group (would like to have not have this skill if it is excuse i wanna risk/reward game and fair challenge..) or portal.. still tw is not mandatory, mass inv can be better choise still in perip huntering role etc..)
- if not have veil: Mesmer will not be better efficient in any role Compare to other Profs.
why would u take mesmer in your organized large scale group? answer? and is it fair? or is it wrong to ask anet why? (ofc if they say in offical that `balances should include large scale groups environment WvW` so example of iLeap nerf? first in mind i said nerf cuz, effects of this skill to efficient where as mesmer already in low tier qol.. other thing is while other profs skill wont change but tool tips why it is opposite to mesmer?
Azolina – Mesmer
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
Op very well said, but then who can the bads blame when they lose? Others profs/mechanics must be op thats why I lost not because I am bad. To lots of players its unthinkable that they are at fault much easier to go write nerf post then improve on ones gameplay.
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Totally agree…Maybe I need to make a post explaining why every class is op.
In the words of Mr. Incredible’s nemisis….when everyone one is super, no one will be!!!
It seems somewhat odd to ask people to stop complaining about profession balance in a forum dedicated to that activity. That said, some people gravitate to a profession because they like the concept of that profession rather than the design philosophy. It’s wholly appropriate for those people to lobby for that profession’s balance to shift towards the way they’d prefer to play it.
I see what you’re getting at crunchy, but cross profession comparisons have a purpose.
Take ranger LB vs warrior rifle for instance, warrior gets an adept trait that grants piercing and a cd reduction while ranger would have to spend 4 times as many trait points to get those effects. At face value one might say, “well rifle sucks”. That’s not the point, the point is ranger is not in a good place and they’re simply demonstrating a way to help them (by merging traits). I’ve seen a number of posts relating to warrior’s mobility as well. If they’re being a troll that’s fine but it falls into line with the long ago rtl nerf. If they want to (seen more so in pvp) they can deal pretty good damage with gs if they combo it with some form of cc and then freely disengage at any time which falls in line with what ele used to be able to do easily. Its unbalanced to let a bruiser make those kinds of decisions with no real risk imo. Decap engi I simply just avoid which hardly seems like a solution. Without some cleaving and either range or stability I can’t approach them. Some also complain that the guardian has too much support granted it’s kind of their thing, there are some things they have that are insanely good while some other professions don’t ever see that kind of attention even with similar weaknesses.
Comparing things to face value like condi removal of an engi to an ele yes its non-sense. There are supposed to be weaknesses, but you can’t honestly say things are gravy right now especially with how little attention anet has been paying towards balancing.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
(edited by NinjaEd.3946)
Totaly agree. Comparing classes with diferent mechanics dont make sense at all.
You’re right Indigo, it does seem odd…if you only read the title.
Comparing ranger LB with warrior rifle is exactly the type of comparisons that I’m trying to stop. They are not the same.
Rangers have a pet, medium armor, 1500 range while warriors have heavy armor, 1000 range. Completely different set of traits and utilities. It is completely insane to look at the dps or the burst skill and say that is what makes one better than the other when there are so many other factors that effect how useful that build is in certain situational gameplay.
You’re right Indigo, it does seem odd…if you only read the title.
Comparing ranger LB with warrior rifle is exactly the type of comparisons that I’m trying to stop. They are not the same.
Rangers have a pet, medium armor, 1500 range while warriors have heavy armor, 1000 range. Completely different set of traits and utilities. It is completely insane to look at the dps or the burst skill and say that is what makes one better than the other when there are so many other factors that effect how useful that build is in certain situational gameplay.
Yes but while rifle isn’t all that great, warrior is and with a lesser investment they can make rifle do pretty good damage while ranger has to invest a lot more and still under perform. The point is spec’ing into something should come with sacrifices elsewhere which ranger see’s the harsher side of. Its comparing how a similar mechanic that both professions share is much more forgiving than on another. If you believe power ranger is strong then there is no need to proceed but I don’t, and I see something that another profession had done right. Different is fine, functioning better than someone else on multiple levels without trying is not when discussing balance.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.
Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.
thieves feel good at spvp and are kings at roaming
I would agree that theives don’t have a stable spot in large groups…but condi theives are arguably the best roaming build. Theives also scout better than just about anything else.
mes in pvp= useless? go watch a stream of helseth or supcutie…or if getting good isn’t an option, learn PU build.
I’ve already conceded that I would’t mind seeing weapon damage on mesmer increased especially for low level toons. Phantasm and sword dps is not useless in dungeons, neither is time warp. In high level speed clears I will concede mes is underpowered for most dungeons.
If you want bags…run a guardian with a staff and hit 1….I was under the impression that you thought mes was un-useful. Clearly you know that it’s useful but find the gameplay personally boring and are sad that you can’t tag enemies well. I agree that the loot system is imperfect, but mesmers have a strong place in wvw…stronger than a few other classes.
Back to my main point…..judge professions based on how viable and useful they are overall. Don’t look at it’s strongest part and cry “op” because you can’t do the same thing in exactly the same way on your profession. Every profession has at least a few areas that it shines.
(edited by crunchyraisin.6054)
I would agree that theives don’t have a stable spot in large groups…but condi theives are arguably the best roaming build. Theives also scout better than just about anything else.
mes in pvp= useless? go watch a stream of helseth or supcutie…or if getting good isn’t an option, learn PU build.
I’ve already conceded that I would’t mind seeing weapon damage on mesmer increased especially for low level toons. Phantasm and sword dps is not useless in dungeons, neither is time warp. In high level speed clears I will concede mes is underpowered for most dungeons.
If you want bags…run a guardian with a staff and hit 1….I was under the impression that you thought mes was un-useful. Clearly you know that it’s useful but find the gameplay personally boring and are sad that you can’t tag enemies well. I agree that the loot system is imperfect, but mesmers have a strong place in wvw…stronger than a few other classes.
Back to my main point…..judge professions based on how viable and useful they are overall. Don’t look at it’s strongest part and cry “op” because you can’t do the same thing in exactly the same way on your profession. Every profession has at least a few areas that it shines.
Im not comparing high’s to lows, I’m comparing lows to really lows. Rifle isn’t good in most areas of the game, but it can be set up and perform much better than lb on ranger without worrying about slight mistakes. Both suck in general and can be easily overwhelmed but ranger suffers from mistakes far more and still does less. That’s my point of some comparisons having a purpose, when its underpowered from a class and mechanic perspective then it makes you compare it to something that at least has some working formula.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
In summary:
The op is a pro AFK torrent engi that is QQing to try and avoid being nerfed and at the same time he’s saying were all noobs and need to l2p.
Nice try dude!
Dear Ninja….power rangers with longbow are extremely effective for the following reasons:
1500 range, also has a pet, knock back arrow, access to stealth, decent dps when compared to other ranged weapons.
Warrior rifle is very effective for the following reasons:
The killshot build. (This is something high level pvpers do when they get bored. It goes down extremely fast in team fights and has access to virtually no defense. Good players will dodge or obstruct the burst.)
decent ranged dps for pve.
Both are viable…. I do not understand why you are sad about ranger longbow, or which part of the game you feel it isn’t working in.
On the surface level this looks exactly like another classic example of people upset because their profession isn’t exactly like another. ie. my warrior is weak because it doesn’t have access to anything like lich form.
Well although some of the comparisons brought up on these forums are somewhat questionable, it’s actually really important to compare classes for both cross-class balance as well as providing role clarity for the player. It’s better to debunk specific comparisons made instead of being dismissive of them all.
Gandara
In summary:
The op is a pro AFK torrent engi that is QQing to try and avoid being nerfed and at the same time he’s saying were all noobs and need to l2p.Nice try dude!
Sorry if you lost to it. I play it because it’s very effective vs randoms. I’ve played less than 9% of my games on engie. I’ll confess about 3/4 of those have been turrets. I hope they do get nerfed, but until then, I will continue to use it.
Well although some of the comparisons brought up on these forums are somewhat questionable, it’s actually really important to compare classes for both cross-class balance as well as providing role clarity for the player. It’s better to debunk specific comparisons made instead of being dismissive of them all.
Scrolling through this forum. So much of the reasoning has to do with “hey look a warrior can do this, why can’t my ele do exactly the same thing”. This thread is nothing more than an attempt to get people to look at the bigger picture. Instead of zoning in on rush>RTL, evisc>fire grab, people need to look at the overall build. The devs have done an extraordinary job of making sure that this game is close to balanced and that every profession has at least a few situations where it can be superior to anything else.
Unrelated to your quote…if I had to feel sorry for anybody it would be ranger right now, but even then rangers have the best uw dps in the game, tons of utility with pets, 1500 range, stealth, long range cc, built in evades, condi roaming potential…
Well although some of the comparisons brought up on these forums are somewhat questionable, it’s actually really important to compare classes for both cross-class balance as well as providing role clarity for the player. It’s better to debunk specific comparisons made instead of being dismissive of them all.
Scrolling through this forum. So much of the reasoning has to do with “hey look a warrior can do this, why can’t my ele do exactly the same thing”. This thread is nothing more than an attempt to get people to look at the bigger picture. Instead of zoning in on rush>RTL, evisc>fire grab, people need to look at the overall build. The devs have done an extraordinary job of making sure that this game is close to balanced and that every profession has at least a few situations where it can be superior to anything else.
Unrelated to your quote…if I had to feel sorry for anybody it would be ranger right now, but even then rangers have the best uw dps in the game, tons of utility with pets, 1500 range, stealth, long range cc, built in evades, condi roaming potential…
Most people have, and thier out performance in multiple ways is the reason for cross class comparisons. The builds that are not complained about are the ones that have to make choices in their build, lose some gain some. When certain builds can bypass the need to make decisions like, “do I need a lot of vitality or condi clear, what choices do I have that fit my build” then its natural to take a little from that pot and stand it up against someone who doesn’t get that luxury in addition to other things.
Is it unbalanced for guardian to have such high healing? Not really, because they are in the lowest health tier and generally play a front line role so they need that sustain. But now is it fair that guardian can put on healing power and get very high numbers when other “support” builds get a very small return for that investment? It would be better if those numbers were closer in line, why should a stat become irrelevant to some builds and actually rewarding for others? I’m pretty sure the loss in dps is enough of a punishment for putting on healing power. It doesn’t mean match them, it means look at how some professions can play roles far better than others when the original idea was to “play how you want”.
When the risk:reward of a build is far more than another profession playing a similar build, its normal to ask why.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Your word choice of risk and reward doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Every class can ditch survivability for damage. Is that what you mean by risk reward? like a warrior with zerker gear and defy pain is not needing to risk?
Every class can go zerker…some more efective than others. Every class can support…some more effective than others….every class can roam….some more effective than others….every class is represented in tpvp…zergs will probably always be dependant on heavies. Every class needs to spec for sustain/cleanse if they want sustain/cleanse. Every class needs to spec for mobility if they want mobility. Every class is glass at max dmg.
Again my point….which should be abundantly obvious, is that it is very arrogant to make direct comparisons between skills on different professions and complain that they aren’t balanced to be the same. As you pointed out with guardian…different classes have different innate characteristics which make them different. This is good for the game.
some kittens just want to complain, because they can.
unfortunately, anet gives in and entertains these minority kittens from time to time, hence we see some really uncalled for, unreasonable, unjustified adjustments from time to time.
fortunately, any major balance patch only occurs every 6 months so it is still bearable.
some kittens just want to complain, because they can.
unfortunately, anet gives in and entertains these minority kittens from time to time, hence we see some really uncalled for, unreasonable, unjustified adjustments from time to time.
fortunately, any major balance patch only occurs every 6 months so it is still bearable.
Actually the fact that they take 6+ months to occur is why things happen. They simply drop some groceries off and take off expecting everything to be ok.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Different professions are different—————————————
Different professions are supposed to be better than others at different things! If people spent half the time they spend complaining about other professions on finding ways to take advantage of the strength in their own profession this game would be in a better state.
I stopped reading right there, because if you don’t understand the problem, or the arguments, you might as well not be talking at all.
The problem is not that professions are better at different things. The problem is that not every one of those “things” (which we call class mechanics), is equally important in the game. And no matter how you adapt your playing style, you can’t change that fact.
Anet’s game designers made quite a blunder, when they placed almost all of the game’s most important mechanics on one class (guardian, with cleave, stability, party-wide buffs and reflection respectively), and many of those same mechanics on another (warrior). And both of those are also heavy armor classes as well.
What really breaks the game, is how some of the other class mechanics are completely broken. Conditions and control skills for example, are broken from the ground up, due to the faulty design of PVE. And lets not forget ranger pets, or perhaps, the less said about that the better.
No game similar to this is perfectly balanced, but they actually do a pretty darn good job in this one.
By balancing the entire game mostly on pvp? Compared to GW1, so far they are doing a terrible job.
For the most part every high level spvp team has at least 4 different professions.
How many of those play a necromancer or a ranger?
Every profession has 2-4 viable builds,
Two or four?! That few?! In GW1 there were dozens of viable guilds across all professions! Endless variation and crazy builds! Two or four? That’s your holy grail of game balance?
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)
Please stop comparing across professions!
When the concept of a class is “being stronger than other classes”, you can’t just assume that is the concept for another class as well! It’s illogical to try and make all classes equally powerful and enjoyable.
sincerely, a warrior who doesn’t want to be associated with the rest of you peasants (a.k.a. “other classes”)
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
Different professions are supposed to be better than others at different things! If people spent half the time they spend complaining about other professions on finding ways to take advantage of the strength in their own profession this game would be in a better state.
This maybe would hold true for PvP but it does not in PvE. In PvE all that matters is damage. And all classes are comparable under the aspect of maximising DPS. According to that, necros may have good damage. But they don’t support the party damage, thus they’re useless in PvE.
Hate to say it… but this forum is specifically for comparing professions to eachother.
If anet didn’t want those comparisons they would have left it at exactly 8 clinically separated forums. Any clashes that develop are not because it’s some cardinal sin to measure Incomparables.. The OP should know better than anyone that incomparables are still a measurement of power just like Mana or Projectile Velocity is and there will always be calculations that can bridge the two. We wouldn’t even HAVE computers to be arguing this on if the mechanics of the real world didn’t allow us to seamlessly converge an archaic analog numbers system directly into perfect parity checking instant calculating digital power.
In layman’s terms: It’s not apples and oranges if all you’re doing with the juice is making the same exact mass produced sweeteners and it’s giving Fat Kids diabetes at the same rate corn syrup does
(edited by ilr.9675)
In PvE all that matters is damage.
As a net result, yes.
But surprisingly, doing maximum damage is a wee bit more than pressing 1 once and going to get a coffee.
Are all classes equally good at:
- Might-stacking?
- Fury?
- Reflection?
- Blocks?
- Vigor?
- post-Might buffing?
- Vulnerability?
- (rarely) Weakness?
Really?
Because sorry, classes aren’t at all the same. Some are taken to stack Might for the group. Others are taken because of higher raw damage once externally provided with that Might. Others are taken because a single of them provides a host of extra group buffs. Others yet because of key supportive utility.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
@ cruncy: no imo real problem is anet leaving all part of game as scrub, except tpvp.. And there is a uncharacteristic politic about game..
And about nullfield is op? in organized zergs? Where as corrupt well can
- rip boons
- cc, returning boons to as fear and others
- deal damage aoe close to 3+ip traited shatt er burst
- dark field is more selectable over etheral for blinds
But not cleanse, in conclusion
It ll better eficient blasting dark field blind > chaos armor dont say it why yet
Nullfield can be dodged not unblockable vent testet nowadays still same?
Cleanse efficient is so low cuz of spammle boons on getting from enemy group + none group can rely on nullfield cleanse eles and shout guards wars is enough + lemon grass melandru
And most important think is that glamour is not used but any other survival skill as decoy.. U already ve veil blink mandatory.. Thiefs are always around u not as spvp that u can track thief is on other cap like.. And there is no respawn.. U die your efficient become 0.. Dont swap veil otherwise u ll not be in as gvg groups..
At least knowladge about competitive organized large scale fights is increasing that no one said feed back yet.. :P
Thiefs: i can freely say that thiefs are the best for perip hunting as in organized larhe scale fights as gvg, and more survival with nore burat/dps than mesmer.. And have respected group support as can give nice dps aoe.. If mesmer doesnt have veil i would prefer thief or dd ele for in same role..
Mes not available in pvp? yes both players are very highly self sufficients, but if cutie turned to thief and if helseth says if he would play thief he would be more productive to group.. Anyway my perspective is organized zergs enviroments..
i dont care loot bags.. in gvg there is not have..
Yeah maybe i can say mes is more respected than eng and ranger but dunno this it is i dont see them in gvg compositions enough..
Yes indeed i am judging mes with viablity and overallefficient in large scale organized compositions.. And pls be objective logical and dont mix casual/scrub gaming with competitive gaming as how modes have differences..
Lol.. Any competitive can care that what mesmer do in fun dungeon run or vice versa and each all modes.. i care only with who i play sync, sinergies, where and why..
Would u excuse pro football player that he sux on volleyball.. Can compare to beach football but still u wont crtize it as it..
And remember mesmer archetype style is not working as desirable in zergs.. Shatter phantasm..
Risk reward mean how much u sacrifice in return of awards.. Exp.. U risked izerker to on zerg in terms of enough efficient as most classes exp lava font.. ?n reward u get nothing but cooldown which is just one of limited aoe of mesmer.. U can say use it on single person as lineer ele so why should i choose mesmer than while thief can make better that.. Or think as in pvp u wanna burst compact guys in reward death .. Retal .. kittensay dont use if they have retal but they can make perma retal on them..
Comparison skills on different profs.. As anet say mesmer have very much CC they are pros with it.. Ofc i can say what we have while others have this this.. Lol funny.. What we have that they show us better CC compare to others?? And they nerfed ileap of mesmer aswell :S
Azolina – Mesmer
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
Being scrub is not shame.. Play however u like to play.. And not knowing is not shame But not learning..
in shortly, comparision is just the nature of gaming.. As there is no retriction to choose any class but being threated as a fool :S and i am customer of anet as u..
i ve freedoom to discussion and criticize/comparisition/judge
Azolina – Mesmer
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.
as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
some kittens just want to complain, because they can.
unfortunately, anet gives in and entertains these minority kittens from time to time, hence we see some really uncalled for, unreasonable, unjustified adjustments from time to time.
fortunately, any major balance patch only occurs every 6 months so it is still bearable.
You mean similarly to how you did when you felt warriors needed buffs earlier in the games life cycle? Or similarly to how you complained about thieves stealth? Or similarly to how you have demanded other changes that would buff specific warrior traits, weapons skills, and utility skills?
Your post history list post of you doing all of those things. Seems unintelligent hypocritical of you to have done it repeatedly, yet bash and berate others who mention something with a realistic comparison, when it does not favor you personally.
In PvE all that matters is damage.
As a net result, yes.
But surprisingly, doing maximum damage is a wee bit more than pressing 1 once and going to get a coffee.Are all classes equally good at:
- Might-stacking?
- Fury?
- Reflection?
- Blocks?
- Vigor?
- post-Might buffing?
- Vulnerability?
- (rarely) Weakness?
Really?
Because sorry, classes aren’t at all the same. Some are taken to stack Might for the group. Others are taken because of higher raw damage once externally provided with that Might. Others are taken because a single of them provides a host of extra group buffs. Others yet because of key supportive utility.
As you may’ve noticed if you would’ve read my post carefully, I’ve already said that. That’s why necros aren’t picked for speedclears. And support is not all that matters, for no class. Cleric guards don’t get picked for speedclears either.
Well said man! 100% true!
To be honest, warrior players are better complainers than elementalists.
What?
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
See the problem with most people is that they look at each class as a Numbers thing, where they take the class and break it down into Numbers, such as damage potential, builds, traits/skills, ect. and if those Numbers don’t appear to be balanced throughout the other classes they have a fit about how X class is OP and needs to be nerfed, not many people actually take the class and put thought into what the profession is used for and what it is all about.
The Self-Proclaimed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.
https://www.twitch.tv/amazinphelix
https://www.twitch.tv/amazinphelix
Scrolling through this forum. So much of the reasoning has to do with “hey look a warrior can do this, why can’t my ele do exactly the same thing”.
There are absolutely cases where this sort of thing is perfectly valid, though. For example, look at the Mai Trin threads. They’re full of things like, “Mai Trin is easy, block or reflect, l2p lulz”…but as a Necro I have zero access to blocks and zero access to reflects. It’s perfectly valid to point at other classes and say, “All these other classes have access to blocks and/or reflects; if we’re going to have fights where blocks or reflects are important then every class should have access to them.”
Yea guys stop comparing professions since the game is about architecture and beatiful piece of art clothes.
Condi removal complaints:
How to say this….Some classes are supposed to be able to do this well! Every class has a strength and a weakness. My favorite complaints are the people that think warriors can have best mobility in game, be super tanky, have high condi removal, and do extraordinary burst all at the same time. I will concede they can do 3 of these, but they still aren’t op…
No.
Every profession, if specced into it, should be able to beat any other, otherwise it’s not balanced.
If the standard engineer faces a condition necromancer, he’s likely to die in a matter of seconds. However just add an utility and the match becomes manageable.
I know you’re referring to people who cry over the fact some professions have too much removal, but my issue is that some professions truly lack condi removal even when fully speccing for it.
For example, take the thief.
One long CD ability removes 3 conditions, you’re forced to take a heal rather than another to deal with bleeding,burning and poison (and still, once every 30 seconds).
And the traits are “meh”, one condition every 3 seconds of stealth won’t drop your dozen stacks of bleeding before they do some serious damage.
Now, if a mesmer picks mantra of healing along with mender’s purity, voila, no more conditions! Or nullfield! Or the disenchanter (which is incredibly underrated)!
@floude yeah i missed that part :S was it true that implementation about gw2 from anet ?
anet pls.. make gw2 2d make me army man, but give fair challenge game..
@butter, yeah and there is somethin missing is Honey.. where are u talk about which mode of game?
Azolina – Mesmer
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
“There Is No Shame In Not Knowing; the Shame Lies In Not Finding Out.”
Scrolling through this forum. So much of the reasoning has to do with “hey look a warrior can do this, why can’t my ele do exactly the same thing”.
There are absolutely cases where this sort of thing is perfectly valid, though. For example, look at the Mai Trin threads. They’re full of things like, “Mai Trin is easy, block or reflect, l2p lulz”…but as a Necro I have zero access to blocks and zero access to reflects. It’s perfectly valid to point at other classes and say, “All these other classes have access to blocks and/or reflects; if we’re going to have fights where blocks or reflects are important then every class should have access to them.”
As a necro you do not have access to these things, and that does make this fight difficult for you at higher levels. Necro is not the only profession that will have difficulty with this fight. Pretty much anything that isn’t heavy will have a tough time here. Spend as much of the fight as possible in death shroud. Consider a spec that returns life force as quickly as possible. That boss at lvl 50, I confess, just screams “everyone roll a warrior”
Condi removal complaints:
How to say this….Some classes are supposed to be able to do this well! Every class has a strength and a weakness. My favorite complaints are the people that think warriors can have best mobility in game, be super tanky, have high condi removal, and do extraordinary burst all at the same time. I will concede they can do 3 of these, but they still aren’t op…
No.
Every profession, if specced into it, should be able to beat any other, otherwise it’s not balanced.If the standard engineer faces a condition necromancer, he’s likely to die in a matter of seconds. However just add an utility and the match becomes manageable.
I know you’re referring to people who cry over the fact some professions have too much removal, but my issue is that some professions truly lack condi removal even when fully speccing for it.For example, take the thief.
One long CD ability removes 3 conditions, you’re forced to take a heal rather than another to deal with bleeding,burning and poison (and still, once every 30 seconds).
And the traits are “meh”, one condition every 3 seconds of stealth won’t drop your dozen stacks of bleeding before they do some serious damage.
Now, if a mesmer picks mantra of healing along with mender’s purity, voila, no more conditions! Or nullfield! Or the disenchanter (which is incredibly underrated)!
Thieves are a different class with a totally different set of mechanics. They are not supposed to be able to cleanse as well as warriors. Their survivability comes from stealth, blind, mobility and high evade. Sword thieves can cleanse with infiltrators, your shadowstep cures 3 on a return…lyssa runes are an option with basi venom, and so is signet of agility with the meta s/d. I would contend that thieves have many more cleanse options when compared to mesmers in pvp or roaming modes.
Different professions are different—————————————
Different professions are supposed to be better than others at different things! If people spent half the time they spend complaining about other professions on finding ways to take advantage of the strength in their own profession this game would be in a better state.
I stopped reading right there, because if you don’t understand the problem, or the arguments, you might as well not be talking at all.
The problem is not that professions are better at different things. The problem is that not every one of those “things” (which we call class mechanics), is equally important in the game. And no matter how you adapt your playing style, you can’t change that fact.
Anet’s game designers made quite a blunder, when they placed almost all of the game’s most important mechanics on one class (guardian, with cleave, stability, party-wide buffs and reflection respectively), and many of those same mechanics on another (warrior). And both of those are also heavy armor classes as well.
What really breaks the game, is how some of the other class mechanics are completely broken. Conditions and control skills for example, are broken from the ground up, due to the faulty design of PVE. And lets not forget ranger pets, or perhaps, the less said about that the better.
No game similar to this is perfectly balanced, but they actually do a pretty darn good job in this one.
By balancing the entire game mostly on pvp? Compared to GW1, so far they are doing a terrible job.
For the most part every high level spvp team has at least 4 different professions.
How many of those play a necromancer or a ranger?
Every profession has 2-4 viable builds,
Two or four?! That few?! In GW1 there were dozens of viable guilds across all professions! Endless variation and crazy builds! Two or four? That’s your holy grail of game balance?
Props to you for presenting a few intelligent claims. Yes, gw1 had more variety if only very slightly more viable builds at high levels. Yes, wvw relies on heavies. Yes, pvp balance seems to be more important, and understandably so imo.
Every class mechanic is useful, but not every class mechanic is useful in every game mode. Easy for me to concede as it has nothing to do with my main point which is:
Because of class mechanics it is arrogant to compare specific skills directly across classes.
Btw, both necromancer and ranger have plenty of tpvp builds that can be considered not only viable, but overpowered. They are not popular, mostly because they do better on side nodes(with obvious exceptions), and most teams want 3-4 midfight oriented players.
Comparing classes can be done if you are comparing the class as a whole and not just individual skills. I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other, without taking into consideration the core differences between the 2 professions. The skill itself might seem drastically strong or weak by itself but when you look at the bigger picture including the entire class mechanics you often see that there is a reason for said skills to be the way they are, but some still refuse to see that.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Comparing classes can be done if you are comparing the class as a whole and not just individual skills. I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other, without taking into consideration the core differences between the 2 professions. The skill itself might seem drastically strong or weak by itself but when you look at the bigger picture including the entire class mechanics you often see that there is a reason for said skills to be the way they are, but some still refuse to see that.
Can I get an amen!!!? This person gets it.
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.
thieves feel good at spvp and are kings at roaming
Thieves are used much more in PvP than mesmers.
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.
thieves feel good at spvp and are kings at roaming
Thieves are used much more in PvP than mesmers.
Based on what exactly?
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Thieves strength in pvp has nothing to do with the topic, but if you believe they are underpowered in pvp, you clearly haven’t met a high level theif in pvp.
If you watch streams, most organized teams are either mimicing the Apex brick wall 3 point strat…or running a thief.
jportell should not have to use data to back up something that obvious.
The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.
Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.
mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will se his defectiveness.Ill raise you with thief, except we don’t have anything close to veil or mass invis.
thieves feel good at spvp and are kings at roaming
Thieves are used much more in PvP than mesmers.
Based on what exactly?
Based on several thousand tpvp games with a team that uses a thief (and almost never a mesmer) getting beaten by teams that have thieves more often than teams that have mesmers. The fact that aside from apex almost every NA team that got anywhere in the last TOL had a thief and not a mesmer.
To be blunt cross class comparison has to be performed in this game because everything revolves around 5 person groups (tPvP, dungeons, wow havoc groups, etc etc.) and there are 8 classes. You have to look at what each class can bring to a party especially at situations like high level tPvP because in that respect it is about maximizing how well you can stand in a circle and take a beating while getting the enemy out of the circle either by killing them or pressuring them so much they have to leave the point.
To be even more blunt it has to happen in the tPvP sense because even within tpvp you have to look at roles such as
1. Team fight bunker
2. Back point defender (he doesn’t stand there the whole match but would be the first to go there if it got contested.)
3. Condition pressure (currently engineers perform this better than necros because they have more survivability.)
4. Roamer (yes mesmer has portal but thief mobility still out performs mesmer as a roamer.)
5. Burster (usually a thief fulfilling two roles or a properly played fresh air or staff ele.)
Sometimes a mesmer can fill a role but currently there is always a class that can do this role better.
The premise of this thread is ridiculous because anet designed all classes to fulfill similar roles (some classes filling roles better than others.) So because of that comparison needs to happen so that all classes can fulfill similar roles just in slightly different ways…
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