Guild Wars 2

T raw.4658:

This isn’t warrior vs ranger discussion time

Simply RF in its current state needs to go.

This isn’t even a discussion. This is just another post with people crying that something is OP without a real argument to back it up. There are so many counters to longbow it isn’t funny. Even the people crying the hardest say they can take a power ranger in a 1v1. If the problem is fighting multiple rangers than bring teammates to support you.

Why is this topic still going if the argument is that someone can’t win in a 1v2 battle? Would it not be balanced if the 1 loses against the 2? It would be OP if you could beat the 2 with just you. maybe this topic has derailed a bit, but the current discussions aren’t in any way proving that RF is OP. (i could however be confusing this and one of the other 10 topics about the OP RF though)

Atherakhia.4086:

Why when Volley is in the same state and has been for 2 years.

Now if you want to argue the 15% additional damage is too much, or the 300 additional range is too much, then raise those concerns. But mechanically, the skills are very similar so arguing about the cooldown, channel time, or 1200 base range is a waste of time.

15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.

It’s not that you can’t deal with the Rapid Fire itself by popping cooldowns and burning endurance, of course you can; but it takes a lot, you get wrecked if you screw it up, and doesn’t cost the ranger much of anything. It’s not like he has to burn long cooldowns or use his own endurance or even expose himself to get these results.

It’s just a lot for very little, and while it’s nowhere near the dumbest balance issue they’ve had in game they could easily rip 20-25% damage off the skill and it’d still be spectacular.

Ensign.2189:

Atherakhia.4086:

Why when Volley is in the same state and has been for 2 years.

Now if you want to argue the 15% additional damage is too much, or the 300 additional range is too much, then raise those concerns. But mechanically, the skills are very similar so arguing about the cooldown, channel time, or 1200 base range is a waste of time.

15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.

It’s not that you can’t deal with the Rapid Fire itself by popping cooldowns and burning endurance, of course you can; but it takes a lot, you get wrecked if you screw it up, and doesn’t cost the ranger much of anything. It’s not like he has to burn long cooldowns or use his own endurance or even expose himself to get these results.

It’s just a lot for very little, and while it’s nowhere near the dumbest balance issue they’ve had in game they could easily rip 20-25% damage off the skill and it’d still be spectacular.

if a ranger wants to hit anything, get that extra range, and have the reduced cooldown they have to use 10 trait points. I’d say it costs the ranger plenty

Ensign.2189:

Atherakhia.4086:

Why when Volley is in the same state and has been for 2 years.

Now if you want to argue the 15% additional damage is too much, or the 300 additional range is too much, then raise those concerns. But mechanically, the skills are very similar so arguing about the cooldown, channel time, or 1200 base range is a waste of time.

15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.

It’s not that you can’t deal with the Rapid Fire itself by popping cooldowns and burning endurance, of course you can; but it takes a lot, you get wrecked if you screw it up, and doesn’t cost the ranger much of anything. It’s not like he has to burn long cooldowns or use his own endurance or even expose himself to get these results.

It’s just a lot for very little, and while it’s nowhere near the dumbest balance issue they’ve had in game they could easily rip 20-25% damage off the skill and it’d still be spectacular.

That 15% is including the vulnerabilty.
Rifle has built in fast projectile speed.
Ranger sacrifices piercing or group precision for range.

So that’s it? Non-issues?

Ensign.2189:

15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.

Umm, I use the good sense to dodge toward the ranger, It will allow you to dodge every single shot of RF. I hardly call that “mind blowing” endurance. To me it seems like common sense in the form of basic game physics. Just my opinion on the matter.

By the way, how many hours of play time do you have on the ranger? You should have learned that by now. I main an engineer myself, but I felt before I complain about any profession and its skills, I should level one to learn it myself. It has prevented me from making a great deal of forum post that would be irrational to players familiar with a specific profession, as well as allowed me to learn what later become common sense concepts to me, such as learning that it matters how you dodge as much as it matters that you do it at all.

Rapid Fire is neither a 1500 range ability,a 8s CD skill nor a guaranteed projectile hit. You trait heavily for this and lose out on the two best ranger lines to get that maximum damage output.

IF you trait defensively, i.e. go 6 into WS or NM the damage is no where near what you are describing (it is at least 15-20% lower).

If you are dying to a 66xxx Ranger 1v1, you really need to work on your PvP skills. If you are losing to a 1v2,3,4… that is fine, it means that you are not a spec that builds for running away. Besides, you should not even be able to win a 1v2,3,4… in a balanced game, are you?

T raw.4658:

This isn’t warrior vs ranger discussion time

Simply RF in its current state needs to go.

Your argument is very strong and show a large amount of insight. May i ask though, if anet were to revert their recent buffs to ranger, like all of them. Do you honestly think you could defeat any ranger that knows what they are doing?

Atherakhia.4086:

So that’s it? Non-issues?

As I said, as you ignored, it is a combination of a very, very strong base skill with a collection of strong traits that work well together. It’s not even remotely comparable to a substantially weaker skill on a weapon that does not have good trait support.

Rifle gets very, very little support from the Strength (power) line – nothing even remotely relevant until the grandmaster tier, then a pathetic 3% damage boost from the minor trait and, what that PvE trait in the GM slot? There’s nothing. Similarly in Arms, you get the cooldown trait, then a bunch of nothing – I guess you rely on the minor adept and grandmaster traits for another 10% damage as long as you get bleed procs?

Ranger gets the 5% damage boost from opening strike, plus the 10% from steady focus, then another 10% from read the wind, and another 5% from eagle eye if you’re so inclined; we’re now up to around kitten damage boost for the ranger over a rifle warrior. Then you grab a stronger skirmishing line, and traits, and it keeps stacking up.

Oh yes, the warrior gets to spec a bunch of durability traits to compensate, which is totally comparable, as evidenced by all the tank rifle warriors running around causing havoc.

Look, if you want to pretend that rifle has a comparable damage output, go right ahead and keep punching that strawman; that’s not the way the game actually works. All of this matters. It’s why dumb things like Dhuumfire have caused problems in the past and been ripped from the game; it’s why a whole bunch of damage traits in the warrior line had to be rearranged to keep them from being stacked; and it’s why the current iteration of Rapid Fire builds are pretty dumb.

Yes, I know that popping people for 12k at long range with one button is a lot of fun. Enjoy it while it lasts, but don’t expect it to.

Chokolata.1870:

Rapid Fire is neither a 1500 range ability,a 8s CD skill nor a guaranteed projectile hit. You trait heavily for this and lose out on the two best ranger lines to get that maximum damage output.

It’s actually not quite as bad a damage hit if you spec into Nature Magic; you get way better traits that way than you do in Skirmishing (Hunter’s Tactics is really unreliable and I really don’t count it for much). You only take around a 5% damage hit speccing 6/2/0/6/0 vs 6/6/x; it’s a bit more substantial, around 10-11%, if you drop down to 6/0/2/6/0 (not counting the Fury from SotF).

Both of those are much better builds than the 6/6/x junk. The 6 in Marksmanship is pretty much required, however – I don’t think a longbow is even worth running without it; the damage just isn’t there.

Sure, the 6/6/x junk is annoying, but I don’t consider it any worse than, say, 6/6/x D/D thief wombo combo junk; they throw their combo and then kitten around for 30 seconds if it fails. Similarly the 6/6/x signet junk try to get some cheese and then slink away – and probably die because they have no clue – but it’s not really a problem. The rangers that know to swap to greatsword after blowing their Rapid Fire and you’ve closed the gap? Those are the ones I’m afraid of.

Atherakhia.4086:

Ensign.2189:

Atherakhia.4086:

Why when Volley is in the same state and has been for 2 years.

Now if you want to argue the 15% additional damage is too much, or the 300 additional range is too much, then raise those concerns. But mechanically, the skills are very similar so arguing about the cooldown, channel time, or 1200 base range is a waste of time.

15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.

It’s not that you can’t deal with the Rapid Fire itself by popping cooldowns and burning endurance, of course you can; but it takes a lot, you get wrecked if you screw it up, and doesn’t cost the ranger much of anything. It’s not like he has to burn long cooldowns or use his own endurance or even expose himself to get these results.

It’s just a lot for very little, and while it’s nowhere near the dumbest balance issue they’ve had in game they could easily rip 20-25% damage off the skill and it’d still be spectacular.

That 15% is including the vulnerabilty.
Rifle has built in fast projectile speed.
Ranger sacrifices piercing or group precision for range.

So that’s it? Non-issues?

No, the 15% extra is base. Vulnerability is an added bonus. So is the +5% from Eagle Eye. So is the 10% extra speed from Read the Wind. Also, the ranger signets perfectly compliment adding big percentages to the burst. Plus, the Ranger’s Longbow AA does 50% more damage at range than a Warrior’s rifle. And the complimentary skills of a Rifle (2,4,5) are considerably worse than the Ranger’s Longbow (3,4,5).
Seriously, are you trying to say that a Warrior’s Rifle is just as effective as a Ranger’s Longbow?? That’s not a credible argument.

I love that so much of what people are complaining about is stuff rangers coups do before the update when longbow was ”worthless”

I bet if people started talking about how OP rifle warriors are with 2 bursts, a utility to make them unlockable, easy repositioning through GS and fast hands, doing comparable damage to a ranger longbow while being way more tanky, we would end up seeing a bunch of new rifle warriors running around.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I bet if people started talking about how OP rifle warriors are with 2 bursts, a utility to make them unlockable, easy repositioning through GS and fast hands, doing comparable damage to a ranger longbow while being way more tanky, we would end up seeing a bunch of new rifle warriors running around.

LOL!

Rangers get 10% for flanking, 10% for full endurance, and 5% for eagle eye. Warriors get 15% for full adrenaline, 10% for bleeding, and X% for boons.

If you only consider Longbow has vuln, 20% more damage.
If you consider neither has vuln 15% more damage.
If you consider both have vuln, 10% more damage.

Yes, SotW is overpowered.

Yes, Longbow is a better weapon than Rifle. Rangers are meant to be the best ranged class in the game per ANets own words.

No, I don’t think RF needs any mechanics changed. I’m not even convinced the damage is a problem. I’d sooner approach SotW. At most, I’d nerf RFs damage by 10%. Anything else is excessive considering the overall strength of the Ranger class.

Actually , SotW is not overpowered. Ranger signets are eccentric as in they have better actives but on a way longer CD. Also the SotW passive is just bad. Every class gets at least a default 100+ HP/s from their sustain trait/skill/ability and SotW is on a whooping 62.5 HP/s.

How the hell are you dying to a single RFire with SotW. Seriously. And do not say hamigad WvW blobb comes from behind crap I dont care. The game is not balanced for WvW!!! Proof? Ask Runes of Perplexity.

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance, and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to adjust my skill level, tweak my build, adjust my gear, change my utilities, or change how I play, to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game. That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

dancingmonkey.4902:

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance, and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to adjust my skill level, tweak my build, adjust my gear, change my utilities, or change how I play, to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game. That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

Or just maybe… you refuse to look at the momentum and swing of the game meta due to one particular ability.

Hint, do the back of the hand math (make it non anecdotal) and realize that Rangers actually now have the #1 burst attack ability in the game (and still a fully ‘functioning’ pet for all things burst/utility during as well).

Or just wait for the math experts (like DnT or some source) to publish.

What kind of math are you waiting for that hasn’t already been provided?

Rapid Fire
3.75 Coefficient * 3000 Power * 1050 Strength / 2600 Armor = 4,543.27 damage
Considering the stacking vulnerability (.00+.02+…+.09/10):
4543.27 * 1.045 = 4,747.72 damage

From there just add in your traits, sigils, runes, signets, openning strikes, etc.

From there you can divide by 2.5 if you want DPS. You can divide by 8 or 10 seconds for comparative analysis. etc etc.

HyldahlSkyline.8493:

Im a ranger and thief, and as a ranger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

(Not my video)

Rangers are way to strong now, i am aware of;
- Some of them are low levels
- He picks the squishy targets
- He runs realyl squishy build

But that dosn’t change the fact that power rangers are way to strong now. They needed a buff for sure, no doubt. But this is pathetic. (but fun!)
I hope they balance the skills a little, i feel like im to stong.

OP?! no way!
1 shooting ppl from 1500 distance is perfectly balance, it has quite alot of counter play to it with all our downstate abilities!

Go troll the thief forum pls!

Artaz.3819:

Or just maybe… you refuse to look at the momentum and swing of the game meta due to one particular ability.

I don’t think so. I leveled all of the profession relatively early on in WvW and PvP. Mostly to find what professions and builds i liked, as well as how to counter play them.

How are you defining meta? I hardly consider everyone trying out the newly buffed build a"meta". Personally, I see 50% less now then I did the first week. Beyond that, I have had little difficulty dealing with them on any profession. Simply because something is so called “meta” doesn’t make it great.

Artaz.3819:

Hint, do the back of the hand math (make it non anecdotal) and realize that Rangers actually now have the #1 burst attack ability in the game (and still a fully ‘functioning’ pet for all things burst/utility during as well).

I do not know where you are going with this. Their burst generally benefits me more then them. On 7 of the professions, I play, I have reflects that feed the ranger their own burst. Now that I think about it. my only profession that i do not have a reflect on, is my own long bow ranger.

Similarly, I suggest to posters who complain about condition, to use more condition removal, I suggest to those who complain about projectile damage, to use more reflects.

Artaz.3819:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance, and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to adjust my skill level, tweak my build, adjust my gear, change my utilities, or change how I play, to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game. That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

Or just maybe… you refuse to look at the momentum and swing of the game meta due to one particular ability.

Hint, do the back of the hand math (make it non anecdotal) and realize that Rangers actually now have the #1 burst attack ability in the game (and still a fully ‘functioning’ pet for all things burst/utility during as well).

Or just wait for the math experts (like DnT or some source) to publish.

Absolutely untrue regarding burst potential, sorry.

Unless you’re talking about a GC ranger using RF with 25 might from other people on a 25 vuln uplevel while flanking and with full endurance + scholar runes versus a non-GC/buffed anything.

Thieves’ self-access to might and damage modifiers nets them by far better burst potential. CnD + Stab deals way more damage than RF, and thieves have equal access to damage modifiers under lower-power builds, even when comparing the use of utilities like SotW.

One one skill? Yes, okay, they deal the most damage. But I frankly consider CnD + Stab one skill. If you’re using CnD, and you’re going to deal damage, you’re stabbing, and it’s going to occur likely in far less than or near 2.5 seconds, anyways. And if the stab combo is executed immediately? The thief just has additional time for autoattacks or HS which will throw the thief’s damage way beyond that of the ranger’s, since its pet is probably still in its idle animation, running at its target, dead, or simply lacks the damage of dagger mainhand thief AA.

And if you should do some more research on burst potential, rangers aren’t even close to the top of the list in the time it takes ti execute RF. Hint: Ele has the best burst damage in the entire game by a very large margin.

And neither are OP, and neither are particularly telegraphed.

And this is coming from a thief main. Rangers are nothing to worry about. If anything, SoS is what’s making them too easy to play – throw a cast time on it with interrupt potential and then we’ve got a truly balanced kit and plenty of scrubs dropping the class when they can’t handle dying so quickly with no survivability (as GC ranged DPS should encourage).

Artaz.3819:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

16secs is nothing when you block, dodge and blind

Actually, it’s huge. The Ranger (regardless of the “lengthy” cooldowns – more on that later) has 16s to kill the target while taking virtually -0- damage in return (pet is made mostly useless for damage output but utility is still there). In 16s, you can kill any target that is not actively defending itself for a majority of that time when you are geared for “Glass” Cannon Power (“Glass” is quoted because you are just Cannon Power during your iWin uptime). No class has the equivalent of 16s/Protection boon for more reduced damage.

It’s not per se Longbow and Rapid Fire. It’s the compilation of Longbow Rapid Fire along with Signet of Stone + Protect Me + Dodge/Protection Boon + Evades on melee weapons (and a Signet of Energy and/or Lightning Reflexes too). It’s crazy and it’s not just because of Longbow Rapid Fire. IMO, Rapid Fire is fine compared to the low-skill iWin buttons of SoS and PM chained together.

Now lengthy cooldowns…yeah, see ~60s is not a lengthy cooldown. Warriors have the most comparable utilities (1) Endure Pain at 60s cooldown and (2) Defy Pain a Grandmaster trait at 60s cooldown but uncontrolled (25%). But guess what, Warriors are only 4s in length compared to Ranger’s 6s (a free 4s more!) …but the Warrior has more base health + SoR …well, see Rangers have this wonderful thing called Protection on dodge and Troll Ungent (ergo, 15 point investment for Ranger into Wilderness Survival/Toughness line for Companion’s Defense + 10 in Marksmanship/Power – you know that trait line you are already heavily invested in – versus 30 point investment for Warrior into Defense/Toughness line for Defy Pain).

Do you think that Warriors no damage time is also balanced?

Also, when are people going to start using Rampage as One in their build and realize next to nothing will stop them 1vX for 16s?

This Ranger build that you speak of. Is it a 6/6/6/6/6 build?

DeceiverX.8361:

Artaz.3819:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance, and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to adjust my skill level, tweak my build, adjust my gear, change my utilities, or change how I play, to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game. That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

Or just maybe… you refuse to look at the momentum and swing of the game meta due to one particular ability.

Hint, do the back of the hand math (make it non anecdotal) and realize that Rangers actually now have the #1 burst attack ability in the game (and still a fully ‘functioning’ pet for all things burst/utility during as well).

Or just wait for the math experts (like DnT or some source) to publish.

Absolutely untrue regarding burst potential, sorry.

Unless you’re talking about a GC ranger using RF with 25 might from other people on a 25 vuln uplevel while flanking and with full endurance + scholar runes versus a non-GC/buffed anything.

Thieves’ self-access to might and damage modifiers nets them by far better burst potential. CnD + Stab deals way more damage than RF, and thieves have equal access to damage modifiers under lower-power builds, even when comparing the use of utilities like SotW.

One one skill? Yes, okay, they deal the most damage. But I frankly consider CnD + Stab one skill. If you’re using CnD, and you’re going to deal damage, you’re stabbing, and it’s going to occur likely in far less than or near 2.5 seconds, anyways. And if the stab combo is executed immediately? The thief just has additional time for autoattacks or HS which will throw the thief’s damage way beyond that of the ranger’s, since its pet is probably still in its idle animation, running at its target, dead, or simply lacks the damage of dagger mainhand thief AA.

And if you should do some more research on burst potential, rangers aren’t even close to the top of the list in the time it takes ti execute RF. Hint: Ele has the best burst damage in the entire game by a very large margin.

And neither are OP, and neither are particularly telegraphed.

And this is coming from a thief main. Rangers are nothing to worry about. If anything, SoS is what’s making them too easy to play – throw a cast time on it with interrupt potential and then we’ve got a truly balanced kit and plenty of scrubs dropping the class when they can’t handle dying so quickly with no survivability (as GC ranged DPS should encourage).

But unlike other zerker specs ranger burst is so easy to do and he can do it from relative safety. If thief want to do any real damage in a group fight he had put himself in danger esp with all the cluster kitten aoe damage everywhere.

Ele burst isn’t as frequent and atlest take some skill to get off. Its also very easy to close a 900 gap.

just can’t hold it back..

everyone of you boys who can’t handle a power ranger should just delete the game,
because nobody can help you then.

the player skill of peoples can’t handle a power ranger must be nearly zero.

it’s just so cute how good much forum boys can complain and theory craft,
but in the same time they are the worst players universe.

full of no name hot join noobs complain about stuff is op and not op.
if it’s ranger for you, it’s really time to look for a offline game.

this thread gave me a brain tumor

warriorjrd.8695:

this thread gave me a brain tumor

That would explain sooo many things

This seems to be exactly how every class goes when it gets a sizable buff. The class gets flooded with FotMers who rabidly defend the class no matter what the claim is, everyone else complains about whatever got buffed being buffed too hard, and the people that actually played the class from the start feel like all they can do is watch as a bunch of egotistic 12 year olds make the entire playerbase of that class look like egotistic 12 year olds.

Can’t beat (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? You’re a noob, you suck no name, play better, you should be able to faceroll them.

You play (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? Wow you must suck, no skill, FotM, bandwagoner, play a real class, 1-5 spam.

There is no winning. Whenever the meta shifts even a tiny bit, all the people that were displaced get kittened at the new easy-mode class, all the people looking for an ego boost on an online game roll a new character, and everyone has to deal with it while self righteous forumers on both sides hiss at each other.

Necrotize.2974:

This seems to be exactly how every class goes when it gets a sizable buff. The class gets flooded with FotMers who rabidly defend the class no matter what the claim is, everyone else complains about whatever got buffed being buffed too hard, and the people that actually played the class from the start feel like all they can do is watch as a bunch of egotistic 12 year olds make the entire playerbase of that class look like egotistic 12 year olds.

Can’t beat (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? You’re a noob, you suck no name, play better, you should be able to faceroll them.

You play (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? Wow you must suck, no skill, FotM, bandwagoner, play a real class, 1-5 spam.

There is no winning. Whenever the meta shifts even a tiny bit, all the people that were displaced get kittened at the new easy-mode class, all the people looking for an ego boost on an online game roll a new character, and everyone has to deal with it while self righteous forumers on both sides hiss at each other.

Except most of the people defending the changes are players that have mained their rangers since beta. Those of us that know the profession inside and out from years of playing it are taking the time to teach people how to counter a ranger. Unfortunately instead of taking this advice people are responding that they don’t want to change anything about their build or play style, so anet needs to nerf ranger instead.

Chokolata.1870:

If you are dying to a 66xxx Ranger 1v1, you really need to work on your PvP skills.

When I play 66020 in WvW, I win at least 90% of 1v1 fights. And I’m not counting those who don’t even bother to fight back and just try to walk away…

The build is far from useless. If you know how to move around and use the right skills at the right time, you’ll do very well. It’s actually far more challenging than any other build, because you can’t afford to miss or mess up anything. Yes you won’t be able to go in 1v4 fights and troll the people, and you can’t join every fight you see like a braindead bunker build. But if you keep your eyes open and use your brain, the build is actually very good.

But lol, the build (or any ranger build) is far from being overpowered.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Necrotize.2974:

This seems to be exactly how every class goes when it gets a sizable buff. The class gets flooded with FotMers who rabidly defend the class no matter what the claim is, everyone else complains about whatever got buffed being buffed too hard, and the people that actually played the class from the start feel like all they can do is watch as a bunch of egotistic 12 year olds make the entire playerbase of that class look like egotistic 12 year olds.

Can’t beat (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? You’re a noob, you suck no name, play better, you should be able to faceroll them.

You play (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? Wow you must suck, no skill, FotM, bandwagoner, play a real class, 1-5 spam.

There is no winning. Whenever the meta shifts even a tiny bit, all the people that were displaced get kittened at the new easy-mode class, all the people looking for an ego boost on an online game roll a new character, and everyone has to deal with it while self righteous forumers on both sides hiss at each other.

Except most of the people defending the changes are players that have mained their rangers since beta. Those of us that know the profession inside and out from years of playing it are taking the time to teach people how to counter a ranger. Unfortunately instead of taking this advice people are responding that they don’t want to change anything about their build or play style, so anet needs to nerf ranger instead.

There’s always some like that. Some players who’ve mained the class forever might say (blank) is super OP and should be nerfed, because they’re used to dominating people without it and now they just destroy everyone. Then other players in the same boat think it is fine because they can recognize the weaknesses of the build/skill/archetype. But then you have the FotM people coming in, defending their new build that they’ve spent maybe a month playing, claiming that their build isn’t OP and that everyone complaining just needs to learn to play, and it’s that type of attitude that makes people want Anet to nerf the class itself even more.

I mostly play thief, elementalist and mesmers so I’m kind of used to the ups and downs of a meta shift. I’ve gone from times when ele was considered unusable, to when it utterly destroys people. I got to mess around with Prismatic Understanding when no one had any idea how to counter something like that and I could pretty much kill people with autoattacks, to now, where PU is pretty much forgotten in SPvP. And thief is well…a thief.

Necrotize.2974:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Necrotize.2974:

This seems to be exactly how every class goes when it gets a sizable buff. The class gets flooded with FotMers who rabidly defend the class no matter what the claim is, everyone else complains about whatever got buffed being buffed too hard, and the people that actually played the class from the start feel like all they can do is watch as a bunch of egotistic 12 year olds make the entire playerbase of that class look like egotistic 12 year olds.

Can’t beat (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? You’re a noob, you suck no name, play better, you should be able to faceroll them.

You play (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? Wow you must suck, no skill, FotM, bandwagoner, play a real class, 1-5 spam.

There is no winning. Whenever the meta shifts even a tiny bit, all the people that were displaced get kittened at the new easy-mode class, all the people looking for an ego boost on an online game roll a new character, and everyone has to deal with it while self righteous forumers on both sides hiss at each other.

Except most of the people defending the changes are players that have mained their rangers since beta. Those of us that know the profession inside and out from years of playing it are taking the time to teach people how to counter a ranger. Unfortunately instead of taking this advice people are responding that they don’t want to change anything about their build or play style, so anet needs to nerf ranger instead.

There’s always some like that. Some players who’ve mained the class forever might say (blank) is super OP and should be nerfed, because they’re used to dominating people without it and now they just destroy everyone. Then other players in the same boat think it is fine because they can recognize the weaknesses of the build/skill/archetype. But then you have the FotM people coming in, defending their new build that they’ve spent maybe a month playing, claiming that their build isn’t OP and that everyone complaining just needs to learn to play, and it’s that type of attitude that makes people want Anet to nerf the class itself even more.

I mostly play thief, elementalist and mesmers so I’m kind of used to the ups and downs of a meta shift. I’ve gone from times when ele was considered unusable, to when it utterly destroys people. I got to mess around with Prismatic Understanding when no one had any idea how to counter something like that and I could pretty much kill people with autoattacks, to now, where PU is pretty much forgotten in SPvP. And thief is well…a thief.

I’m just wondering how many of these flavor of the month rangers really think it is over powered. I have run into maybe 1 or 2 that I would even consider a fight, most of them have died laughably fast, and that is across every profession including necro.

The majority of the people that are complaining about them say they are easily killing them in 1v1’s, and the number of baby rangers seems to have already dropped off significantly.

I just don’t understand how people can claim something is OP while saying they can still beat the build in a 1v1. Or the people that say they refuse to use certain skills and traits that they know will counter the ranged burst because they just don’t want to. It’s fine if they want to risk not bringing something but they shouldn’t complain if they choose to leave themselves vulnerable.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Necrotize.2974:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Necrotize.2974:

This seems to be exactly how every class goes when it gets a sizable buff. The class gets flooded with FotMers who rabidly defend the class no matter what the claim is, everyone else complains about whatever got buffed being buffed too hard, and the people that actually played the class from the start feel like all they can do is watch as a bunch of egotistic 12 year olds make the entire playerbase of that class look like egotistic 12 year olds.

Can’t beat (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? You’re a noob, you suck no name, play better, you should be able to faceroll them.

You play (insert buffed skill/archetype/class here)? Wow you must suck, no skill, FotM, bandwagoner, play a real class, 1-5 spam.

There is no winning. Whenever the meta shifts even a tiny bit, all the people that were displaced get kittened at the new easy-mode class, all the people looking for an ego boost on an online game roll a new character, and everyone has to deal with it while self righteous forumers on both sides hiss at each other.

Except most of the people defending the changes are players that have mained their rangers since beta. Those of us that know the profession inside and out from years of playing it are taking the time to teach people how to counter a ranger. Unfortunately instead of taking this advice people are responding that they don’t want to change anything about their build or play style, so anet needs to nerf ranger instead.

There’s always some like that. Some players who’ve mained the class forever might say (blank) is super OP and should be nerfed, because they’re used to dominating people without it and now they just destroy everyone. Then other players in the same boat think it is fine because they can recognize the weaknesses of the build/skill/archetype. But then you have the FotM people coming in, defending their new build that they’ve spent maybe a month playing, claiming that their build isn’t OP and that everyone complaining just needs to learn to play, and it’s that type of attitude that makes people want Anet to nerf the class itself even more.

I mostly play thief, elementalist and mesmers so I’m kind of used to the ups and downs of a meta shift. I’ve gone from times when ele was considered unusable, to when it utterly destroys people. I got to mess around with Prismatic Understanding when no one had any idea how to counter something like that and I could pretty much kill people with autoattacks, to now, where PU is pretty much forgotten in SPvP. And thief is well…a thief.

I’m just wondering how many of these flavor of the month rangers really think it is over powered. I have run into maybe 1 or 2 that I would even consider a fight, most of them have died laughably fast, and that is across every profession including necro.

The majority of the people that are complaining about them say they are easily killing them in 1v1’s, and the number of baby rangers seems to have already dropped off significantly.

I just don’t understand how people can claim something is OP while saying they can still beat the build in a 1v1. Or the people that say they refuse to use certain skills and traits that they know will counter the ranged burst because they just don’t want to. It’s fine if they want to risk not bringing something but they shouldn’t complain if they choose to leave themselves vulnerable.

I’ve only run into a few as well that are actual problem, but then again, I am using a S/P thief, so I can go from 1500 units away to right next to them in half a second while at the same time interrupting them, plus Pistol Whip completely evades RF if I time it right. I suppose it could be the annoyance factor. A lot of the ones I find will stick with a partner the entire time or if you get them alone and their RF+Knockback+Pet Fear+RF don’t kill you, they switch to GS and run+block until they either get help or until RF is back off cd. What I think bothers most people is that a ranger can show up to an existing fight, pick a non-bunker that is below 50-60% already and just end them with one skill plus a few auto attacks. Sure they’re not too strong in 1v1, but 1v1 also isn’t a game mode in GW2 so it shouldn’t really mean much when it comes to balancing.

Necrotize.2974:

What I think bothers most people is that a ranger can show up to an existing fight, pick a non-bunker that is below 50-60% already and just end them with one skill plus a few auto attacks. Sure they’re not too strong in 1v1, but 1v1 also isn’t a game mode in GW2 so it shouldn’t really mean much when it comes to balancing.

That’s what doesn’t make any sense, it’s not like this is a new thing that is happening. Plenty of professions were already doing this. Thieves are notorious for this. It’s annoying when any class does this, but that is far from making it OP.

People do know OP stands for Over Powered right? Annoying and over powered are two very different things.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Necrotize.2974:

What I think bothers most people is that a ranger can show up to an existing fight, pick a non-bunker that is below 50-60% already and just end them with one skill plus a few auto attacks. Sure they’re not too strong in 1v1, but 1v1 also isn’t a game mode in GW2 so it shouldn’t really mean much when it comes to balancing.

That’s what doesn’t make any sense, it’s not like this is a new thing that is happening. Plenty of professions were already doing this. Thieves are notorious for this. It’s annoying when any class does this, but that is far from making it OP.

People do know OP stands for Over Powered right? Annoying and over powered are two very different things.

Preaching to the choir here. To this day, bunkers still get kittened at me when I disengage on my thief and come back with backup or simply cap their home point instead. But combined with people’s ego, saying something is OP may seem like the only logical explanation to them. “My build is so great and I’ve killed tons of people with it, but I can’t kill this (one person playing a class) so there’s two possibilities; I’m not skilled enough( but that’s not likely, cause I’m the greatest player of this class anyone has ever seen), or they’re OP”.

Not 5 minutes ago I was getting 2v1’d off point, I break away and head for a point and I’m followed by one of the people. Then, 2 more arrive midway through the fight. Knowing it’s lost cause and I’d be better off helping a teammate, I break off again. Ofc by this point, I’ve been called a “noob thief”, a “runner” and a “scrub thief” because I didn’t feel like sticking around for a 3v1.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I’m just wondering how many of these flavor of the month rangers really think it is over powered. I have run into maybe 1 or 2 that I would even consider a fight, most of them have died laughably fast, and that is across every profession including necro.

I was playing around in hotjoin early this morning. Ended up in the usual 4v5 match with the enemy team having three longbow rangers who just stood around the orb in Spirit Watch sniping anyone who got near it, while the two other members of their team held off anyone from capturing points since it was a 4v5 match. When I called them out on exploiting the game to get an uneven team and all running the same build, they responded with “It’s meta bro.”

So yes, the newbie longbow rangers VERY MUCH believe that the longbow ranger is the new meta for rangers. They even proceeded to call me a scrub for using my usual beastmaster bunker set up and laughed at how easy I was to kill (ignoring the fact every fight was 3v1).

On an even playing field I’ve beaten most longbow rangers I’ve fought, both 1v1 and in team fights. Only a small few have gotten the better of me, and only because I made so many mistakes while fighting them or because I was outnumbered. They really aren’t a huge problem. A threat? Very much so. But I’ve yet to feel like I’ve been completely shut down because of a longbow ranger.

The problem is people BELIEVE longbow is overpowered. They will keep running with the longbow burst build because they so strongly believe it is the be all end all build for rangers. Until people stop complaining about them they won’t go away.

On the plus side, I’ve had a few laughably easy fights because of the existence of longbow rangers. A lot of opponents see a ranger these days and assume they have a longbow. I’ve had MANY thieves try to jump me only to get eaten alive (my build has 3K armor and Sick ’Em). One warrior actually saw me coming and ducked behind cover to try and avoid my arrows, only to get pinned by my pet that was hitting for 2K a hit and ending with a 5K burst. By the time they realized what was happening they were below 30% health, crippled, bleeding, and I was still at full.

in a real game longbow rangers are trash.. hotjoin will never represent the meta.

in that very situation where 3 longbow rangers pearch and protect the orb.. its countered by one longbow ranger standing out of thier range but in range of the orb interupting pickups. while 4 of your team clear out all the nodes..

so its a waste to play to win in hotjoin.. just play to kill..

I know hotjoin isn’t a representation of high end pvp. My point was more that these players truly believed they were running the high end meta build, rather than realizing it was just a flavor of the month build.

I also checked, and metabattle.com has the Read the Wind Longbow Ranger build listed as the only meta ranger build.

So yah. The problem is people keep treating it like a high end meta build, so people keep rolling new characters to take advantage of it.

Jim Hunter.6821:

T raw.4658:

This isn’t warrior vs ranger discussion time

Simply RF in its current state needs to go.

This isn’t even a discussion. This is just another post with people crying that something is OP without a real argument to back it up. There are so many counters to longbow it isn’t funny. Even the people crying the hardest say they can take a power ranger in a 1v1. If the problem is fighting multiple rangers than bring teammates to support you.

The problem is not 1 vs. 1 at all. It is entirely N vs N.
Today I watched a guy who thinks the change was OK and also says dodge is all you need. He was playing a thief that was somewhat of a bunker build. He and 1 other are approaching 2 rangers. Here is the fight.

1.) Ranger A uses his gatling arrow gun and this guys double dodges and stealths.
2.) Ranger B starts his gatling gun up after dodge 2.
3.) While stealthed the thief gets pew pew pew pew’ed and dies. All damage while stealthed other than from ranger 1’s initial barrage.
4.) The other guy is approaching during this time.
5.) He see’s a dead thief and decides against it and both rangers target and destroy him.

Thief almost got into steal range.

Now lets talk about all those counters. Thief has 2 possible:
1.) Dodge
2.) Dagger storm

Dagger storm is an elite skill with a 30ish second cooldown…so a ranger can use the gatling arrow gun three times in this time. Once 2 dodges are done a thief can’t dodge for quite some time.

So in order to just survive the above he would have to dodge twice, then use his elite skill, and then stealth and then run away as now he’s used his elite and can’t dodge anymore. Meanwhile the ranger has essentially spent nothing and by the time the thief can recover the gatling gun is ready again.

Now lets look at what a ranger has to do to counter a thieves one button press attack.
Well the answer is nothing as thieves have to close distance. So they have to steal/step to the target first. This is really obvious as the thief disappearing from his position means you can dodge BEFORE taking any damage. Then if the ranger stealths…guess what…no damage…what if the ranger roots the thief? Again no damage.

So are you seriously telling me that another class has to have a certain elite equiped just to stay alive for one 8 second period? The 9th second they are dead because that one ability has 22 more seconds on cooldown.

The change is laughable and the above clearly describes why. Therefore the skill has to be nerfed OR OR OR…..as should have been done a long time ago…lets modify the thieve’s counters:

1.) Dodge
2.) Daggerstorn
3.) Stealth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don’t want to be nerfed? Get them to fix the fact that direct target shots hit stealthed players.

So let me get this straight, Skeletor. You feel it’s overpowered for two full zerker rangers to be able to down a single target when they focus fire on said target and coordinate their attacks?

You do realize two thieves can do the exact same thing, right? Two of ANY high burst zerker profession can replicate the same tactic.

Wait.

The thief double dodged and wasn’t in steal range?

Was he running ANY teleport utilities? Said thief saw this matchup and didn’t bring smokescreen either, or didn’t think to use SR out of RF range and just walk right up to the rangers and engage from there/with his ally also stealthed, or recognize that two rangers are there and did nothing to utilize terrain/LoS?

That’s just poor play by the thief. As thief/ranger dual main, the most difficult part of killing the new ranger is the new signet of stone. The fotm LB glass build is so squishy and overall weak relative to what most other classes can bring to sPvP.

Skeletor.9360:

Jim Hunter.6821:

T raw.4658:

This isn’t warrior vs ranger discussion time

Simply RF in its current state needs to go.

This isn’t even a discussion. This is just another post with people crying that something is OP without a real argument to back it up. There are so many counters to longbow it isn’t funny. Even the people crying the hardest say they can take a power ranger in a 1v1. If the problem is fighting multiple rangers than bring teammates to support you.

The problem is not 1 vs. 1 at all. It is entirely N vs N.
Today I watched a guy who thinks the change was OK and also says dodge is all you need. He was playing a thief that was somewhat of a bunker build. He and 1 other are approaching 2 rangers. Here is the fight.

1.) Ranger A uses his gatling arrow gun and this guys double dodges and stealths.
2.) Ranger B starts his gatling gun up after dodge 2.
3.) While stealthed the thief gets pew pew pew pew’ed and dies. All damage while stealthed other than from ranger 1’s initial barrage.
4.) The other guy is approaching during this time.
5.) He see’s a dead thief and decides against it and both rangers target and destroy him.

Thief almost got into steal range.

Now lets talk about all those counters. Thief has 2 possible:
1.) Dodge
2.) Dagger storm

Dagger storm is an elite skill with a 30ish second cooldown…so a ranger can use the gatling arrow gun three times in this time. Once 2 dodges are done a thief can’t dodge for quite some time.

So in order to just survive the above he would have to dodge twice, then use his elite skill, and then stealth and then run away as now he’s used his elite and can’t dodge anymore. Meanwhile the ranger has essentially spent nothing and by the time the thief can recover the gatling gun is ready again.

Now lets look at what a ranger has to do to counter a thieves one button press attack.
Well the answer is nothing as thieves have to close distance. So they have to steal/step to the target first. This is really obvious as the thief disappearing from his position means you can dodge BEFORE taking any damage. Then if the ranger stealths…guess what…no damage…what if the ranger roots the thief? Again no damage.

So are you seriously telling me that another class has to have a certain elite equiped just to stay alive for one 8 second period? The 9th second they are dead because that one ability has 22 more seconds on cooldown.

The change is laughable and the above clearly describes why. Therefore the skill has to be nerfed OR OR OR…..as should have been done a long time ago…lets modify the thieve’s counters:

1.) Dodge
2.) Daggerstorn
3.) Stealth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don’t want to be nerfed? Get them to fix the fact that direct target shots hit stealthed players.

You know rapid fire won’t hit a stealthed target unless the thief goes into stealth during the rapid fire channel right? If you are already being hit by rapid fire you need to have the common sense to save your stealth because it isn’t going to help you at that point.

And what weapons are you using that you can’t close the distance as a thief? 2 of your weapons have teleports, you have a 1200 teleport utility, long reach for steal is an adept trait that gives you 1500 range, you have leaps and evades for days on your other weapons… I can only assume you are running pistol/pistol and ignoring your utilities and traits.

Seriously all you have to do is use any of these gap closers to get in melee range and then just run through the ranger to break his projectiles.

Or what you should probably do is just roll a different class. It sounds like thief is just too difficult for you.

Skeletor.9360:

Jim Hunter.6821:

T raw.4658:

This isn’t warrior vs ranger discussion time

Simply RF in its current state needs to go.

This isn’t even a discussion. This is just another post with people crying that something is OP without a real argument to back it up. There are so many counters to longbow it isn’t funny. Even the people crying the hardest say they can take a power ranger in a 1v1. If the problem is fighting multiple rangers than bring teammates to support you.

The problem is not 1 vs. 1 at all. It is entirely N vs N.
Today I watched a guy who thinks the change was OK and also says dodge is all you need. He was playing a thief that was somewhat of a bunker build. He and 1 other are approaching 2 rangers. Here is the fight.

1.) Ranger A uses his gatling arrow gun and this guys double dodges and stealths.
2.) Ranger B starts his gatling gun up after dodge 2.
3.) While stealthed the thief gets pew pew pew pew’ed and dies. All damage while stealthed other than from ranger 1’s initial barrage.
4.) The other guy is approaching during this time.
5.) He see’s a dead thief and decides against it and both rangers target and destroy him.

Thief almost got into steal range.

Now lets talk about all those counters. Thief has 2 possible:
1.) Dodge
2.) Dagger storm

Dagger storm is an elite skill with a 30ish second cooldown…so a ranger can use the gatling arrow gun three times in this time. Once 2 dodges are done a thief can’t dodge for quite some time.

So in order to just survive the above he would have to dodge twice, then use his elite skill, and then stealth and then run away as now he’s used his elite and can’t dodge anymore. Meanwhile the ranger has essentially spent nothing and by the time the thief can recover the gatling gun is ready again.

Now lets look at what a ranger has to do to counter a thieves one button press attack.
Well the answer is nothing as thieves have to close distance. So they have to steal/step to the target first. This is really obvious as the thief disappearing from his position means you can dodge BEFORE taking any damage. Then if the ranger stealths…guess what…no damage…what if the ranger roots the thief? Again no damage.

So are you seriously telling me that another class has to have a certain elite equiped just to stay alive for one 8 second period? The 9th second they are dead because that one ability has 22 more seconds on cooldown.

The change is laughable and the above clearly describes why. Therefore the skill has to be nerfed OR OR OR…..as should have been done a long time ago…lets modify the thieve’s counters:

1.) Dodge
2.) Daggerstorn
3.) Stealth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don’t want to be nerfed? Get them to fix the fact that direct target shots hit stealthed players.

First things first…

First you L2p. Then you learn how to 1v1 a ranger on your thief.

Then you will have to worry about 2v1 them… You got a loooong way to go…

I had to modify my build slightly to adapt to them but Power Rangers aren’t OP. They are actually pretty lame, if you have decent mobility. They just have 1 OP skill and that is all the rely on. Deny them that, get in melee and they are completely useless. I don’t know what Anet was thinking when the buffed RF they way they did. Giving a OP skill to a lame build doesn’t make that build any more viable. It just gives Rangers an even worse reputation, not only are they useless, they can now troll. Climb up high and pew pew pew from a distance while your teammates do all the work. I hate fighting them almost as much as I hate having them on my team.

DeceiverX.8361:

Wait.

The thief double dodged and wasn’t in steal range?

Was he running ANY teleport utilities? Said thief saw this matchup and didn’t bring smokescreen either, or didn’t think to use SR out of RF range and just walk right up to the rangers and engage from there/with his ally also stealthed, or recognize that two rangers are there and did nothing to utilize terrain/LoS?

That’s just poor play by the thief. As thief/ranger dual main, the most difficult part of killing the new ranger is the new signet of stone. The fotm LB glass build is so squishy and overall weak relative to what most other classes can bring to sPvP.

QFT. If you see any class and have time to prepare, you should be pulling on any utilities that will help in the fight ahead. Just Smokescreen would have prevented his death long enough for him to disengage completely or wipe one of the two out. Hell, Daggerstorm alone would have ruined both their days (4 targets = ricochet and reflect heaven).

To be fair, i haven’t read the whole thread. I’m mostly ok with Rapid Fire, although i would lower its damage coefficient to that of Backstab (currently 3.75, backstab is 2.4 if hitting from behind).

But what’s really putting me off are 4k autoattacks from 1500+ range that somehow can be queued up to hit me after i stealth.

Just wanted to point out since I just noticed it and it bothered me. Dagger Storm is not “an elite skill with a 30ish second cooldown”, it has a 90 second cd.

But more on topic. To those saying the game shouldn’t be balanced based on hotjoin, I somewhat agree. But at the same time people to this day still try to justify things based on 1v1 which is not even a gamemode in GW2.