Guild Wars 2

I would love to see endurance regen be based off of armor type – i.e. heavy armor would have slower regeneration than light armor. It doesn’t make sense that the Guardian, for example, has so many different ways to defend against attacks (multiple blinds, aegis, protection, etc), but at the end of the day they can still dodge roll out of everything. Warriors too, would be less inclined to run Berzerker-only if they could not dodge as often. This would force players to actually time blinds, aegis’s, etc, instead of wasting them when not needed. This would also be more ‘realistic’ in the sense that wearing heavy armor with restrict dodges.

Nonsense, total nonsense. The effect of the different armor classes is too tiny to justify any change of that kind. Besides, how exactly does the thief fit into your scheme, since it has infinite blinds (guardian doesn’t) and a kittenload of evade skills?

good idea)
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I like this idea, though I think it’d require massive baseline reworks. But the idea makes sense, the heavier armour makes it more difficult to catch your breath because you have to constantly exert the effort of lugging it around.

Carighan.6758:

the heavier armour makes it more difficult to catch your breath because you have to constantly exert the effort of lugging it around.

Tell that to those “Usain Bolt” warriors that even thieves can’t catch.

Terrible idea.
The difference between different armor types is minimal and it would create huge discrepancies in WvW and PvP.
This game isn’t only PVE. And even there a lot of things would have to be reworked.

There are many other less destructive ways to improve this game.

If heavy armor professions are to tanky, then dont nerf their active defense that requires skill and timing. But nerf their passive defense first.

Terrahero.9358:

If heavy armor professions are to tanky, then dont nerf their active defense that requires skill and timing. But nerf their passive defense first.

It’d make no sense for plate armour to not be plate-ish. It does make sense for plate armour to bog their wearer down.

You know, you’re right in a way, and maybe I went about the endurance thing the wrong way. It stands to reason that anyone able to walk around in plate has the endurance to do so. However, the armour is still clunky and unwieldy. As such:

• In Heavy Armour, you dodge 50% less distance and you move 5% slower.
• In Medium Armour, you dodge 25% less distance.

or how about we keep things exactly the way they are

Or, on the flipside of the argument,

Warriors are supposed to be these physically athletic and strong people with high endurance who use this to get the upperhand on the opponent. Doesn’t make sense for a scholarly profession such as an Elementalist to be able to move and dodge and have more endurance than a warrior.

maha.7902:

or how about we keep things exactly the way they are

That’s too easy and people couldn’t suggest so many stupid ideas. Rejected!

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

If heavy armor professions are to tanky, then dont nerf their active defense that requires skill and timing. But nerf their passive defense first.

It’d make no sense for plate armour to not be plate-ish. It does make sense for plate armour to bog their wearer down.

You know, you’re right in a way, and maybe I went about the endurance thing the wrong way. It stands to reason that anyone able to walk around in plate has the endurance to do so. However, the armour is still clunky and unwieldy. As such:

• In Heavy Armour, you dodge 50% less distance and you move 5% slower.
• In Medium Armour, you dodge 25% less distance.

It also makes no sense that i can summon a lava font on a wooden door and the door barely gets scratched…

Its a video game, it requires a certain suspension of disbelief. And from a gameplay standpoint nerfing active defense that takes skill just so they can keep passive defense that takes no skill is a bad idea.

Suppose you balance it, then what? You have light armor classes that require timing and skill to not die and heavy armor classes that just brainlessly facetanks it.
Bad idea.
If there is a problem from their active and passive defense combined, nerf their passive defense first. Its not like Guardians and Warriors are the epitome of skill to begin with, lets not make em even simpler.

Also, why would a physically focussed Adventurer profession dodge worst then a Scholar profession? :P

How about this…

Heavy:
Block – 20 Endurance (10 per second)
Replaces Dodge. Hold down the Guard button to block incoming attacks. Blocking an attack this way reduces endurance by 10. Character is immobile while blocking.

Medium:
Parry – 10 Endurance (5 per second)
Hold down Dodge to gain a defensive stance. Character takes only 25% of incoming damage while blocking and can move at a walking pace. Taking reduced damage this way costs 10 endurance per hit.

Dodge – 50 Endurance
Tap to evade in the direction you are moving. Range: 300

Light:
Dodgeroll – 40 Endurance
Tap dodge to evade in the direction you are moving. Range: 450

Warp – 40 Endurance
Hold dodge to increase speed by 100%. Greatly drains Endurance.

Light armor and medium already have tons of damage migation, that’s why you see them in dungeons or playable in pve.

i can just spam pistol whip doing tons of damage aoe cleave while evading everything.
and some even have 50% ~ perma vigor uptime with only one trait. and heavies dont have.

and if you want to add another endure regen on top of that, idk, you will need to nerf other stuff 1st

TLDR: Medium and Lighter already dodge damage way more then heavies (except necro), you probably don’t play most of them to know.

That said, light and medium armor classes need those damage mitigations (at least builds like glass thief or mesmer) since a still tanky warrior 2 shots them with basically every semi-spammable skill he has.

Terrahero.9358:

Suppose you balance it, then what? You have light armor classes that require timing and skill to not die and heavy armor classes that just brainlessly facetanks it.
Bad idea.

That is… how it is right now, no?

Harper.4173:

Terrible idea.
The difference between different armor types is minimal and it would create huge discrepancies in WvW and PvP.
This game isn’t only PVE. And even there a lot of things would have to be reworked.

There are many other less destructive ways to improve this game.

I understand that the game isn’t only PvE, but I did mark this thread as a PvE only suggestion.

Simon.3794:

Light armor and medium already have tons of damage migation, that’s why you see them in dungeons or playable in pve.

i can just spam pistol whip doing tons of damage aoe cleave while evading everything.
and some even have 50% ~ perma vigor uptime with only one trait. and heavies dont have.

and if you want to add another endure regen on top of that, idk, you will need to nerf other stuff 1st

TLDR: Medium and Lighter already dodge damage way more then heavies (except necro), you probably don’t play most of them to know.

My primary is elementalist, but I have also leveled to 80 a guardian and warrior. 5 point vigor on crit for Guardian never felt fair considering the blind and aegis spamming available to the class.

Ele has 100 % vigor uptime for mere 10 points, in contrast to a guard’s 50 % uptime for 5 points. Fair deal, and both of them are in rather weak lines. Besides, the ele can either have more distance to the enemy (staff or DD) or has regular blinds, too (LH).

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

Suppose you balance it, then what? You have light armor classes that require timing and skill to not die and heavy armor classes that just brainlessly facetanks it.
Bad idea.

That is… how it is right now, no?

If we ignore the fact that warr is indeed slightly overpowered due to high base health and the ridiculous healing signet (neither of which is related to dodging), I’d like you to show us how heavies, especially guards, “brainlessly facetank” PvE stuff that other classes can’t.

Oh by the way, the most brainless facetank I’ve seen in this game was actually done by an ele, not a heavy. Spider queen AFK-solo.

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

Suppose you balance it, then what? You have light armor classes that require timing and skill to not die and heavy armor classes that just brainlessly facetanks it.
Bad idea.

That is… how it is right now, no?

Okay, yah, thats true.

But i meant, you balance around the idea that heavies dont need to think as much about their mitigation as they can dodge less, and instead mindlessly facetank more. As opposed to a light/medium who cannot face tank and needs to lands the extra dodged they get at the right time.

The OP is entirely right. Light armored classes should definitely be more mobile, and have more access to vigor than heavies. So maybe not nerf the dodges of heavy classes, but boost the vigor regeneration of light classes.

Frankly there’s quite a lot of balance decisions in this game that don’t make much sense to me. Especially on the distribution of defense among the various classes.

How about we make each armor type have pros and cons and allow every class to choose what they wear. There is no real reason why an elementalist can’t wear heavy armor or a warrior to wear light armor. Almost all classes have melee and ranged fighting styles.

I know some people will say “but what about class balance!”. To that I say, what balance? You could make this change tomorrow and things will be just as “balanced” as they are now because there is no real metric for balance in this game. Similar abilities have different scaling/damage. Similar traits in different places on the trait lines. It really couldn’t hurt the game at this point.

P&P wise, heavier armor should come with hit and parry penalties and hinder the use of magic ^^

Simon.3794:

Light armor and medium already have tons of damage migation, that’s why you see them in dungeons or playable in pve.

Tell that to necro which have 2 aoe blinds on 40+ cooldowns and around 15s of protection pre 50s with 0 vigor, 0 evade moves, 0 blocks and 0 teleports (and no pre casts aint counted as teleports).

CptAurellian.9537:

Ele has 100 % vigor uptime for mere 10 points, in contrast to a guard’s 50 % uptime for 5 points. Fair deal, and both of them are in rather weak lines. Besides, the ele can either have more distance to the enemy (staff or DD) or has regular blinds, too (LH).

I wouldn’t mind seeing vigor getting nerfed across the board or at least made less accessable. Removing dodges would actually force players to take vitality and toughness points. There are definitely some boss attacks that would have to be nerfed as well. Just in general getting tired of the berzerker + dodge meta in PvE.

Passive stats instead of active gameplay are so exciting … not.

Just in general getting tired of the berzerker + dodge meta in PvE.

I don’t know aboutm PvE, only PvP, but fighting glass vs glass is much more fun than fighting vs a bunker because your errors have much bigger consequences and the whole fight is a lot faster.

If anything, bunker builds across the board should be toned down defensively so players are forced to use their dodges and active defenses.

Iavra.8510:

If anything, bunker builds across the board should be toned down defensively so players are forced to use their dodges and active defenses.

And I think twitch-based gaming is bad because it’s over too fast and hence relies too much on initiative and jumping the enemy. Remember this isn’t a “pro gaming”-game. It’s a MMORPG. Have you considered what percentage of players would find themselves unable to compete if you remove the ability to have ample reaction time to incoming PvP aggression?

PvP, for me, should be skill based no matter what kind of game. In PvE, i don’t care (well, this topic IS about PvE, but just to make a point).

And even a fight like shatter vs shatter (one of the most glassy builds in the game) can take a while if both players time their invuls/evades right). Might be just me, but i like these fights much more than having someone circling around a bunker guard/war grinding him down forever.

But do keep in mind this is a RPG. Historically, these games were about character-based power in combat- or check-type situations (compare their heritage, with dice rolling!). Player skills came into play in planning the character and situations, not in handling them.

In other words, RPGs are a genre where having fully-player-skill-based combat is actually… misplaced. It’s weird.

I would genuinely play a MMORPG with dice rolls. I mean showing them in the log, like in the old BG or PS:T games. As my char stats change with gear I equip, I have to roll different numbers to hit / avoid, but using actual dice rolls, like a proper pen&paper RPG.

Anyhow the point is, saying everything needs to be twitch player-skill based is an insanely narrow and lopsided view. There’s nothing wrong with having player skill be in planning and circumstance optimization instead of twitch-combat. Strategy games are hardly not about player skills, for example.

The Great Al.2546:

Harper.4173:

Terrible idea.
The difference between different armor types is minimal and it would create huge discrepancies in WvW and PvP.
This game isn’t only PVE. And even there a lot of things would have to be reworked.

There are many other less destructive ways to improve this game.

I understand that the game isn’t only PvE, but I did mark this thread as a PvE only suggestion.

Except you can’t have “PVE only” in GW2. No matter what you suggest it has to be across the board or it simply won’t work with the current balance policy.

That aside I still firmly believe that it’s a bad suggestion. Light/Medium classes have a lot of means to mitigate damage.

Harper.4173:

The Great Al.2546:

Harper.4173:

Terrible idea.
The difference between different armor types is minimal and it would create huge discrepancies in WvW and PvP.
This game isn’t only PVE. And even there a lot of things would have to be reworked.

There are many other less destructive ways to improve this game.

I understand that the game isn’t only PvE, but I did mark this thread as a PvE only suggestion.

Except you can’t have “PVE only” in GW2. No matter what you suggest it has to be across the board or it simply won’t work with the current balance policy.

That aside I still firmly believe that it’s a bad suggestion. Light/Medium classes have a lot of means to mitigate damage.

*cough necro cough *

endurance is fine.

leave it as it is.

we do not fix what is not broken.

Plate armor isn’t that encumbering, ridiculous models notwithstanding. A well fitted suit of armor is still pretty easy to move around in, and it probably breaks even with some of the bulkier light armors, and DEFINITELY the bulkier medium armors.

I mean, Medium Armageddon. That stuff looks INCREDIBLY difficult to move around in. Thick leather trenchcoats are really heavy- let alone ones with loosely fitted, thick metal plates decorating them.

I was thinking something similar the other day. Instead of complicated changes i thought to just adjust how many times characters can dodgeroll in fast succession.

Right now everyone can dodge two times before being exhausted, which can be seen by the small divide in the endurance bar above the health bar.
I would reduce the endurance pool of heavies to One dodge.
Mediums would remain the same.
Light armor classes would have 3 dodges.
Endurance regeneration would still work the same way. It would still take the same amount of time to regenerate one dodge-roll than before. Heavies would regenerate their full endurance pool faster, but would only be able to dodge once until their endurance is full again, forcing them to time their dodges better and soak up the rest. Light classes would take longer to regen their full endurance, but would be able to dodge 3 times in quick succession.

That suggestion is as dumb as all the other ones in this thread, as it disregards any kind of balance we have in the game. How exactly is a guardian with 11k HP (compared to a warrior with 20k HP) supposed to soak up anything meaningful? And don’t even try to start with blocks, because the guard does not have significantly more than a warrior.

It certainly has more than any light armor class. And aegis. And protection. And superior healing. And condition removal. And boon access.

Mesmers actually have better damage evasion. You fail. Besides, aegis = block. All the rest is completely irrelevant for the question of dodges in PvE.

lakdav.3694:

It certainly has more than any light armor class. And aegis. And protection. And superior healing. And condition removal. And boon access.

ele and mesmer don’t have access to good healing, protection, condition removal, and boon access? Mesmers and eles have evasion/distortion, they also have a lot more soft cc than guardian as well. So I don’t see your point.

I a not against the idea, but it’ll require too much of a shake of the current balance.

Many “on dodge” traits would require recharges added, and several sources of vigor would have to change, unless you reduced endurance recovery from vigor to professions with a bigger endurance pool or less endurance cost for dodges.

You don’t always have to make a change because it makes logical sense. Sometimes balance can suspend common sense for its own sake.

I agree that it would need some additional balanceing across the classes. I am aware that this suggestion (as many other mechanic change suggestions) would need way too much effort for some abstract gain like common sense. It is too late in the game to change things this massively.

Then again, we got Megaservers with bigger changes and less reason, so who am i to not give a small idea at least. It will be ignored anyway.
/thread-derail