Guild Wars 2

Yeah I know, old news. But here it goes anyways.

Berserker’s Power is fine in PvP and WvW, as CCs, creating chokes, bursting and all that jazz you can do with burst skills have a high impact in a fight, hence that choice between 15% damage or any of the above exists.

However, in PvE, nothing burst skills can possibly do (apart from some extremely rare situations) can outweigh 15% DPS loss until your bar is filled again, and since the endurance gain from bursting got nerfed to the ground, there’s no utility use for them either. This added to the fact that 15% DPS increase is so strong that you’re basically forced to take it unless you run EA/Phalanx means:

1. You’re forced to not use any of your class skills.
2. You’re being rewarded for ….. doing nothing instead if active skill usage.

So, does this trait need changing in PvE?

I agree, i dont think Warrior should have any traits that rewards the user for purposely withholding te use of their profession mechanic.

This extends to any profession, but i think Warrior is the only one who really get such traits (of such magnitude) that would really convince a player to simply forgo using Burst skills.

The player should be rewarded for properly using their burst skill, and landing them. Its just that Cleansing Ire is overpowered, but it is a great example of how burst skills should reward the player.

I disagree – using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

Using your longbow F1 to set down a fire field that you and your party can blast to 25 stacks of might is more viable than just sitting on a flat 15% adrenaline.

The trait as it is now gives you options – you can not use the F1 and have 15% damage or use it and have a good burst or more importantly buff your party’s dps output.

I see what you are saying, the trait is pretty passive as it is. What about increasing the damage to 10%/15%/25% on Burst skill use for 5 seconds with an internal CD of 10 seconds?

On the other hand I agree with Harper about it making you choose when to use and not use your burst skill. It seems to me though like it feels good as a flat out boost for those that want to min/max damage. I haven’t played with the trait any good length of time so I can’t really speak to much.

Harper.4173:

I disagree - using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

Using your longbow F1 to set down a fire field that you and your party can blast to 25 stacks of might is more viable than just sitting on a flat 15% adrenaline.

The trait as it is now gives you options - you can not use the F1 and have 15% damage or use it and have a good burst or more importantly buff your party’s dps output.

Using Eviserate constantly within your rotation is a DPS loss.

Eles and Guardians both have fire fields that aren’t DPS losses to use, you’ll probably have at least one of them. This is however, one of those rare circumstances where you might find it useful, ie, if you don’t have any other class that can fire field better than you, and even in that case, you might actually be better off using Phalanx Strength to perma might your party anyways.

Burst skills can be useful in PvE, but it’s way too late to make that happen. In QG, Burst skills were very useful, because

1. Some fights went down to the wire when you put gambits on, so CCs etc made or broke your attempt.
2. There a few rights where it does make your choose. e.g. I killed Lladri with a cleansing ire build because she was spamming weakness and cripple way too fast for normal skills to cleanse it, and that’s not a fight you want to be crippled on.

So if mechanics are complex enough, it can replicate that decision process that’s common in PvP. However, almost all existing PvE content aren’t complex enough to make that happen, and it’s a lot easier to just change the way the skill works for PvE than rehaul everything in PvE to make it work as it is now.

So instead of giving us new PVE encounters where already functioning game mechanics could be implemented with success creating new gameplay options you want them to just change the trait that works in WvW and PvP because you feel it’s not good in PVE.

The same could be said for many things.

I think we’re jumping the horse, there are many other aspects of PVE that need immediate fixing that would be a much bigger priority than one warrior trait.

I wish ranger’s got a 30% dmg boost when our pet is on passive…

also, I don’t understand why cleansing ire isn’t at least a gm trait… but w/e, I main warrior and i’d hate it if that happened =P

@Harper the main aspects of PvE actually consists of many smaller segments. This a part of making PvE more engaging, and I’m sure making an entire mechanic having some sort of relevance in PvE again is very much in line with that agenda.

You can make engaging fights like stuff in the Queen’s Gauntlet to fix the problem, but it’s far too late for that. If this was alpha and everything was still up for tweaking, yeah, that’s a fine solution. But the game is live, and pretty much most of PvE is set in stone.

It’ll take years and years to make enough permenant and ‘mainstream’ (ie, stuff people do on a daily basis) content to solve the problem through your way, or to basically redesign, rebalance and basically remake most of existing PvE. The latter is not going happen.

So the most realistic and efficient way to solve the problem is then to just change this one single trait.

Harper.4173:

I disagree – using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

this^

i use both berserkers power and heightened focus in my axe/axe zerker build and i used F1 frequently since my adrenaline refills so fast (instantly with whirling axe)

Liewec.2896:

Harper.4173:

I disagree – using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

this^

i use both berserkers power and heightened focus in my axe/axe zerker build and i used F1 frequently since my adrenaline refills so fast (instantly with whirling axe)

This is the problem. You got a fun build, but its massively unoptimized.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Liewec.2896:

Harper.4173:

I disagree – using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

this^

i use both berserkers power and heightened focus in my axe/axe zerker build and i used F1 frequently since my adrenaline refills so fast (instantly with whirling axe)

This is the problem. You got a fun build, but its massively unoptimized.

If BP is changed ( nerfed ) builds won’t be more “fun”. They’ll simply force you to run axe on your 2nd weapon slot so you can F1 at regular intervals.
I don’t see how adding 1 button press to your dps rotation takes the game from " omg so bland and boring " to " wow so super hardcore awesome diversity and interaction".

Harper.4173:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Liewec.2896:

Harper.4173:

I disagree – using your adrenaline is viable in the proper context. An Axe build will have this sort of F1 usage in its rotation.

this^

i use both berserkers power and heightened focus in my axe/axe zerker build and i used F1 frequently since my adrenaline refills so fast (instantly with whirling axe)

This is the problem. You got a fun build, but its massively unoptimized.

If BP is changed ( nerfed ) builds won’t be more “fun”. They’ll simply force you to run axe on your 2nd weapon slot so you can F1 at regular intervals.
I don’t see how adding 1 button press to your dps rotation takes the game from " omg so bland and boring " to " wow so super hardcore awesome diversity and interaction".

First of all, that one button happens to be our class mechanic.

Second of all, I never said nerf BP.

Third of all, why would axe be the only F1 you do? For example, GS F1 as poor as it is, is better than your GS auto and would have its occasional uses (e.g. carry warbanner for pugs, not enough fury uptime) if it didn’t mean a 15% DPS loss for using it.

Like I was saying before. One step at a time. One change won’t suddenly solve everything wrong with PvE. There’s no magic solution. You change things one at a time.

Because Axe F1 is the highest DPS. Any other F1 is a waste of my adrenaline.

This thinking i’ve illustrated above is what would make the new meta.

Also speaking of mechanics : mesmer’s mechanic is to shatter their illusions but you don’t see a lot of them doing that in PVE do you? I also don’t see a lot of thieves stealing in PVE either.

Mechanics work in certain game modes ( WvW, PVP) and are less usable in others ( PVE).

Regarding the nerf – it’s pretty clear that changing the trait is in a sense nerfing it for PVE. I doubt anyone except a few players ( yourself included) want this. We’ve taken enough nerfs as it is.

Harper.4173:

Because Axe F1 is the highest DPS. Any other F1 is a waste of my adrenaline.

This thinking i’ve illustrated above is what would make the new meta.

Also speaking of mechanics : mesmer’s mechanic is to shatter their illusions but you don’t see a lot of them doing that in PVE do you? I also don’t see a lot of thieves stealing in PVE either.

Mechanics work in certain game modes ( WvW, PVP) and are less usable in others ( PVE).

Regarding the nerf – it’s pretty clear that changing the trait is in a sense nerfing it for PVE. I doubt anyone except a few players ( yourself included) want this. We’ve taken enough nerfs as it is.

If you run a pure GS build or if you there’s not enough warriors/eles around and you want Warbanner because dead people = DPS loss, then GS F1 would be useful if it wasn’t a 15% DPS loss.

LB is an alternative fire field to guardian/ele flames if again, it wasn’t a huge DPS loss.

and so on.

Why does change automatically equate to nerf? There’s a lot of ways in which you can change the way a mechanic works without undermining how strong it is.

Thinking about this a bit more, what we could do is have an alternative to Berserker’s Power. For example, like I suggested in another thread:

Berserker’s Inspiration

On using Burst skills, nearby allies gain 1/2/3 stacks of Berserker’s Inspiration depending on the number of adrenaline bars used.

Berserker’s Inspiration (10 seconds)
Increases damage dealt by 2%, stacks in intensity, max 3 stacks.