[PvP] 5 condition team

[PvP] 5 condition team

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Posted by: Fortus.6175

Fortus.6175

This is reaching a point of toxicness, normally I only find that the enemy has 2-3 condition users, some other times 4. But to cross a 5 condition team TWICE in a row?

CMON ANET, is this the balance you want to reach? Passive conditions ticking you to death? Do you really think people will tune in to a twitch channel tournament to see people running around and watching their enemies drop in a few secs while they lay there, hopeless like a fish?

I think this is out of control, this NEEDS to be fixed ASAP.

Suggestions; nerf the heck out of bleed and how they are applied. Give condition another stat, it is very unfair to have its scaling come from only one stat and get to have all defensing stats too. Both boons and conditions need some tuning; they went from “use at tactical moments” to “spam that hoe when it comes off CD, usually 8 seconds on the auto attack”

Please anet, i want plays, PLAYS, not ticking people to death. I alrady had to reroll a condi warr, thats not what I want to play. I enjoy healers, supporters, spikers.

No, Im tired of being “polite”, everyone is. Im being “constructive”; im warning you of whats wrong before whatever PvP community you have leaks out.

Screenshot related of one of the game; condi/zoo ranger, PU mesmer, condi engi, 2 condi necros…..

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Posted by: amiavamp.9785

amiavamp.9785

The upcoming patch is supposed to change that.

But I wouldn’t get your hopes up, considering that it’s been this way since June.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

What is stopping you from playing a power build?

I can play both power builds and condition builds without trouble. Are you having trouble fighting condi builds?

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Passive conditions ticking away? How did those conditions get on you, I wonder?

Oh right! You were attacked and didn’t defend yourself. What do you think would happen if a Power build attacked you and you didn’t defend yourself?

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

It looks the weekly new anti condition thread has arrived.

First thing why is 2-3 condition users in a team bad? I mean power builds and condition builds should be equal. I have also never seen anyone complain that a team has 5 power users.

Second it is unlikely that people will be killed in a few seconds by condition build due to their dot nature.

Also conditions are not passive you need to hit an enemy with your weapon as well. It’s not like condition are applied to you if the enemy is afk.

Conditions scale from 3 stats (precision,condition duration and condition damage some builds can drop precision though) as well .

The problem with support and healing is not the fault of conditions it’s with the way pvp/pve are designed.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Ryld.1340

Ryld.1340

Passive conditions ticking away? How did those conditions get on you, I wonder?

Oh right! You were attacked and didn’t defend yourself. What do you think would happen if a Power build attacked you and you didn’t defend yourself?

Power builds apply all their damage in a burst that normally (outside of Thieves) require a set up as well as a small window with usually obvious animations or tells.

Condition builds usually have little to no tells (Necro Marks), apply high damage stacking dots with their autoattacks, have generally more survivability, and greater access to control features as well.

Honestly, when was the last time you got hit by a full 100 Blades? And when was the last time you successfully dodged a fear mark that wasn’t already placed down?

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Passive conditions

Seriously:
What about conditions is so passive? They don’t last that long, you know? You use skills to apply them.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

Passive conditions

Seriously:
What about conditions is so passive? They don’t last that long, you know? You use skills to apply them.

Sssh, you will ruin the fun.
@OP: I have to ask, this was in hot join or not?

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Posted by: Colt.9051

Colt.9051

Passive conditions ticking away? How did those conditions get on you, I wonder?

Oh right! You were attacked and didn’t defend yourself. What do you think would happen if a Power build attacked you and you didn’t defend yourself?

I seriously laugh every time I hear someone make that very statement about getting hit by conditions. Yes, you’re right in that we got hit by a skill we may have failed to evade or block or something, and we take damage over time for it, BUT the thing that makes people cry that the DOTs are OP is that there is currently NO direct ways of being able to mitigate how much damage these conditions do to you over time. Comparative to a power based attack in which you can mitigate how much damage is done to you via your toughness stat and somewhat your vitality, you only have vitality as your only pseudo way to mitigate condi damage, and it isn’t saying much. Certain classes simply have it better than others when it comes to healthpools to survive condition damage, and certain classes have it better than others when it comes to having access to condition removals as well. A lot of times you may have to specialize your builds with as much condition removals as possible, and that can sometimes be unappealing, even disadvantageous as you’ll likely be missing out on some needed offense or physical defense if it comes to it. Nobody likes specializing to be able to counter one condi build to get wrecked by any other build out there. The rock-paper-scissor aspect is a bad way to go with those builds.

Also as mentioned many times before, condition damage builds mostly tend to lean towards the tanky side because the main stat(s) that affects how much condition damage does is well… Condition damage (And to a certain extent precision for certain builds). It’s a lot easier to invest in being bulky with heal power/toughness/vitality along with the condi damage as we have several armor sets that tailor to that, namely settler’s/apothecary, dire, shaman’s and somewhat rabid. Compare to most power builds which have to invest in 3 stats to be effective power-wise, which are power, precision and critical damage. More often than not to achieve a good balance of the three, some survivability will have to be sacrificed to make the most effect of your damage, in which condition based gear does not suffer much of the same issue. So condition builds are more often than not generally harder to kill off as they typically survive as well as any bunker build and can STILL have good to great damage output, something most power builds can’t achieve.

Daeaera ~ Leader of Grape Justice! [FGJ]

(edited by Colt.9051)

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Ok, then question. Two attacks:

  • One deals 25000 damage to you, directly.
  • The other deals 25000 damage over 10 second.

The first is affected by Toughness, the second is not. Which do you think is more lethal?
(hint: For all but the tankiest Warrior/Guardian, it’ll be the first)

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Menzies The Heretic.3415

Menzies The Heretic.3415

Ok, then question. Two attacks:

  • One deals 25000 damage to you, directly.
  • The other deals 25000 damage over 10 second.

The first is affected by Toughness, the second is not. Which do you think is more lethal?
(hint: For all but the tankiest Warrior/Guardian, it’ll be the first)

Assuming this is a spike and not sustained, I’d say:
The one that can’t be countered.

A thief might not have a lot of toughness, but a thief without enough condition removal is basically a sitting duck when it comes to conditions.

Combined with the fact that condition damage that is applied by ranged attacks hot just as hard as the ones dealt by melee attacks (which are easier to dodge).

* Twitch – Mênzîes – Mesmer pvp
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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I sort of meant that they both hit you. The thing is, the condition damage ignores your toughness, but it has a much greater opportunity window to counter it. Say it needs 10 seconds, not only can I cleanse it at any point, I can also:

  • Apply an equal condition to a disengaging enemy (or disengage myself), leaving us even. In the direct damage case, I’d probably be dead and cannot counterattack.
  • Heal. In those 10 seconds, my heal can recycle and I can survive the – even increased – damage.
  • Overpower. Assume for a moment that the attacks are on two different players, the one with the direct hit can use it after he has already been hit by the condition. This probably doesn’t work the other way around.

The reason conditions work out to be so powerful in actual play is, as usual, the small PvP format most players engage in. Condition cleansing in general is a group effort. It follows that the larger the group, the greater the overall ability to shed conditions.
Especially given combo field interactions.

The only way to balance that (properly) would be to actually reduce the # of conditions which are applied depending on player group side. That is to say, as the number of players rise, the number of conditions they apply multiply instead of just adding up.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

You do realize that condition necro autos fully optimized in WvW only hit for 1.5k? (actually 1.5k,-1.5k-2.2k, but most of the last is Poison, so multiple rounds decrease in damage, these numbers cannot be reached in PvP) Power auto-attacks frequently hit that hard or harder.

And for the last time I avoided a Reaper’s Mark that was placed on my position? Yesterday. Heck, I’ve been avoiding them all over the place since they changed the animation. It’s really obvious that it’s a Reaper’s Mark that’s being cast, so try actually looking at the necro instead of whining.

“No way to reduce after you’ve been hit” is the clear tell of someone who doesn’t understand the game. For one, it’s demonstrably false because condition cleansing exists. Two, you can’t reduce the damage of a Power hit after you’ve been hit.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Dynnen.6405

Dynnen.6405

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

For those who believe that condition damage should only invest in one stat here I have a little post:

Personally I don’t put all my eggs in one basket, and I go hybrid.

Anyway, not a lot of people have done math on the issue. What most people get is the tooltip, and that is misleading to a large degree. The tooltip assumes 2600 armor, and since the minimum is 1836, this means it can be up to 41.6% higher.

So, with that in mind, I’m going to make an arbitrary comparison between a guardian’s auto attack with his sword, and a Necromancer’s auto attack with their scepter. This is assuming a few things: Full PVT / MVT gear, exotic level gear, 300 in the relevant damage stat, and an appropriate rune/sigil. Off-hand weapon will not be considered. So, in full PVT/MVT we get the following bonuses:

Guardian:

Vitality: 698
Toughness: 698
Power: 1003 from gear + 165 from rune + 300 from stats = 1,468 Power
Runes of the Ogre bonus: 4% damage increase
Sigil of Force bonus: 5% damage increase

Total effective power: (916 + 1468) x 1.04 × 1.05 = 2603 power

Necromancer:
Vitality: 698
Toughness: 748
Malice: 1003 (from gear) + 300 (from stats) + 183 (from runes) + 83 (run undead bonus) = 1569
Total Malice with Sigil of Bursting: 1663

At 1663 condition damage, bleed does about 126 per tick, and poison does about 250 per tick. This means that the necromancer’s scepter auto chain will do 4 (126) x 2 + 4 (250) = 2008 damage over the course of 7 seconds (3 seconds to initialize the damage, 4 for the poison to tick). If you want to get technical, the motions to inflict all the damage is done in 3 seconds, so we’ll just go with that. Note that the auto attack also has a direct damage component (118 + 118 + 168), so the real total damage comes to 2,421 in 3(+4) seconds, factoring in crit chance and crit damage.

At 2603 power, the sword auto attack will do 764 × 2 +1,432 damage, or 2,960 damage in 2.5 seconds. Now, this isn’t assuming any crits, but if we factor in a 4% crit chance along with a 1.53 crit damage, we will get a further 2% increase, or about 3023 damage in 2.5 seconds.

This tooltip damage is also assuming 2600 armor. That is actually more than the necro has ATM (2584), but assuming we were fighting something like a GC mesmer, who would only have 1836 armor, then we would do 41.6% more damage, up to 4281 damage in 2.5 seconds. But, we’ll just go with the tooltip for now.

Ultimately, the guardian is doing more damage, doing it faster, doing it in power, and doing it while in heavily defensive gear. A lot of people constantly point at zerker gear, saying it is the only way to run a damage build. It really isn’t. I’ve been running a PVT guardian build in sPVP for a long time, and it does hit things quite kitten its own. One of my favorite things to do is just go around auto attacking people with the greatsword, since the combination of power + bulk means I’ll win the auto attack war. I’ve even played around with Valkyrie, which I recommend to many people, as it hits really kitten crits, and still has plenty of vitality for defense.

Those “builds” above are merely skeletons. The more modifiers you throw at it, the more things change up. But if you do throw modifiers on, you have to remember to do it to both classes: if you include trait abilities, you do it for both. If you include additional stats, you do it for both. If you include consumables, you do it for both.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

Bwahaha, thank you and thanks for Arachnid for this post! :’D

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Posted by: Frenk.5917

Frenk.5917

I would really like conditions to NOT to apply damage but only effects, just like chill, vulnerability, blind and weakness work at the moment. For example just remove the damage on poison, make burn remove boons on ticks, etc.

Frenk – EU
All is vain

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Posted by: Dynnen.6405

Dynnen.6405

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

Dynnen, where do you get that 5k?? Because the maximum base pvp condition damage (without might stacks) value is 1737. To get 5k damage numbers you need like 25 bleeds+ perma burn + perma poison + perma terror, 25 stacks of torment while moving or 25 stacks of confusion while attacking. If you get such numbers (which is impossible to achieve solo due to low condition duration is in such cases) then you deserve to die.

EverythingOP

(edited by Tim.6450)

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst...really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros...well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ’meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say "Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols"

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

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Posted by: Dynnen.6405

Dynnen.6405

Dynnen, where do you get that 5k?? Because the maximum base pvp condition damage (without might stacks) value is 1737. To get 5k damage numbers you need like 25 bleeds+ perma burn + perma poison + perma terror, 25 stacks of torment while moving or 25 stacks of confusion while attacking. If you get such numbers (which is impossible to achieve solo due to low condition duration is in such cases) then you deserve to die.

No your math is more off than mine is so you can get something kitten near 5k, and reapply it very quickly. So yes it can kittening condi burst you clown, roaming groups do it a lot

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Posted by: Oozo.7856

Oozo.7856

Hey, perhaps the confusion here is some are thinking about a group built around conditions while others are thinking of a solo necro. If you have a group built around condition with venom sharing, etc… you can put out a ton of hurt with an epi.

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Posted by: Dynnen.6405

Dynnen.6405

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

They will probaly deal 5k DPS as well, because of the condition cap and the fact, that you have to apply avery condition on your target to get to those 5k DPS.

So please show us your math, in which a condi build is capable to come close to the 5k DPS.

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Posted by: Oozo.7856

Oozo.7856

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

Have you guys tried to using venom sharing thief? It doesn’t matter if the venoms get applied from a power class or not since the dmg is based on the necro that spreads it and it gives a ton of condition coverage.

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[PvP] 5 condition team

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

Have you guys tried to using venom sharing thief? It doesn’t matter if the venoms get applied from a power class or not since the dmg is based on the necro that spreads it and it gives a ton of condition coverage.

No we have not, most of out thieves are power.
it would be interesting to try though.

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[PvP] 5 condition team

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Dynnen.6405

Dynnen.6405

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

Have you guys tried to using venom sharing thief? It doesn’t matter if the venoms get applied from a power class or not since the dmg is based on the necro that spreads it and it gives a ton of condition coverage.

No we have not, most of out thieves are power.
it would be interesting to try though.

Look at any of Oozo’s vids when theres a venom share thief…its un-real