Guild Wars 2

Imagi.4561:

The crux of my issue with the Elementalist is on dagger mainhand, particularly in PvP, you are putting yourself at a very vulnerable distance from your target and it feels like you have neither the damage output nor the healing capacity to compensate for the risk.

I feel these sentiments. Cone of Cold isn’t all that give it’s a channel. It seems the majority of survivalbility is thrown into traits as while the heals of Soothing Mist, Healing ripple, Evasive Arcana and the regen traits add up to something potent, without the 3 the Ele kind of falls off pretty hard.

Wouldn’t conjures work better if they became a weapon that the ele could “swap” to once activated? I know I would probably use Earth Shield in Spvp then (and test out others, probably use the elite too). So, I could equip the conjure earth shield as a utility… and once activated the 5 earth shield skills would be available, but I could still “swap” back to my attunement skills to use those (and swap between attunements) then “swap” back to the shield as I wanted to as long as it had charges remaining and the timer had not run out – I don’t know if that would need a 5-10 sec cooldown or not? However, the conjure would still work the same as is for anybody else that picks it up off the ground, even other elementalists.

Imagi.4561:

observer z.6725:

Ele already has great survivability without having to build tanky at all due to trait bonuses and perma regen, protection, stability, and blinks. And you want to buff them more? Insane.

Let’s talk about things the ele is completely OP at. They are the only ranged class in this game that can instanteously burst down a target from ranged offering no counterplay since all the skills at instant cast, while still retaining the evasiveness and survivability due to can trips, blinks, and mobility skills.

Obviously you have a video to support these claims, and I would really appreciate if you could post it. I’d like to see an Elementalist instaneously burst down a target from range with instant cast skills, all while running 3 cantrips. It sounds like a build I need to learn.

He is talking about the S/D full zerk (30/30/10/0/0)build running arcane blast/wave and LF. It has an instant 23k damage. But what he doesn’t realize it is on a 40 second cool down and can only burst down a single target using up all its cool downs. Leaving the ele actually completely defensless and useless after that. Its a gimmick 1v1 build. It has no use in team play what so ever. If you do the math it only averages out to about 650 dmg per second which is actually very low considering I can take Dagger main hand in the same build and spam auto attack(lighting whip) for more dps per second. It is strictly a burst down and either kill or be killed build.

Kuju.2153:

Wouldn’t conjures work better if they became a weapon that the ele could “swap” to once activated? I know I would probably use Earth Shield in Spvp then (and test out others, probably use the elite too). So, I could equip the conjure earth shield as a utility… and once activated the 5 earth shield skills would be available, but I could still “swap” back to my attunement skills to use those (and swap between attunements) then “swap” back to the shield as I wanted to as long as it had charges remaining and the timer had not run out – I don’t know if that would need a 5-10 sec cooldown or not? However, the conjure would still work the same as is for anybody else that picks it up off the ground, even other elementalists.

We wouldn’t want to offend engies you know they are the kings of pvp and all that.
This would make them a lot better I agree, maybe too good because you only care about 2 attacks on ice bow, then you can pocket it for later instead of being stuck with it.

ens.9854:

Kuju.2153:

Wouldn’t conjures work better if they became a weapon that the ele could “swap” to once activated? I know I would probably use Earth Shield in Spvp then (and test out others, probably use the elite too). So, I could equip the conjure earth shield as a utility… and once activated the 5 earth shield skills would be available, but I could still “swap” back to my attunement skills to use those (and swap between attunements) then “swap” back to the shield as I wanted to as long as it had charges remaining and the timer had not run out – I don’t know if that would need a 5-10 sec cooldown or not? However, the conjure would still work the same as is for anybody else that picks it up off the ground, even other elementalists.

We wouldn’t want to offend engies you know they are the kings of pvp and all that.
This would make them a lot better I agree, maybe too good because you only care about 2 attacks on ice bow, then you can pocket it for later instead of being stuck with it.

Yeah, I see how it would make em close to kits, but they would still be limited by charges and duration. Otherwise, they just remain too clunky to pop em, use the skill(s) you want, and be stuck staring at cooldowns or forced to drop and waste whatever charges are left. We really need something to make it actually feel like a choice vs wanting to run cantrips.

This thread is getting off topic.
In order to properly balance the Elementalist we need to first need to understand all of the issues it is experiencing.

Once we fully understand all of the issues, then we will be able to suggest changes which would effectively put us in a better position.

Bump because I added new stuff.

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

I’d love that glyph :8

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

I agree, Auras should be Elementalist’s active defense.
Auras punish the opponent for attacking us; what are a few drawbacks to using Auras as an active defense?

What would be the best way to implement these Auras so that they’re more effective as our active defense?

Trait:
Get “X” Aura on Attunement Swap.
Get “X” Aura on Blast Finishing a certain Field.
Get “X” Aura on applying a certain condition.

Take x% less damage against a burning/chilled enemy.
Take x% less damage while having an aura around you.

What are some weaknesses that Elementalist have internally?

It’s the most micro-oriented class in the game, meaning you have to click a lot to make anything noticeable, even more so than engineers – and this mechanic is built into the very concept of the class. It wouldn’t be so bad – a profession hard to master, with a high skill roof to aim for – if not for the fact that good elementalist play is simply outshun by mediocre/good play of any other profession at the moment, as far as PvP is concerned.
In other words – we need to click a lot, use a lot of skills, go through a whole skill combo spanning across several attunements, all to be able to perform comparatively worse than another profession doing much less in the given timeframe, but at the same time contributing more to the whole team.

Due to the squishy nature, elementalists should be able to achieve the true glass cannon potential, with high risk high reward gameplay possible; at the moment, glass zerker ele is outplayed by and can’t do anything against most hybrid builds of professions with greater innate survivability.
The damage potential of a glass ele is comparative or even lower to many popular meta builds – looking mainly at warriors, thieves (who still have stealth, steal, and medium armor when compared to ele), mesmers, and necros – both in sustain and burst.

With lack of any in-built survival mechanism1 we are forced into one of the several viable builds, all of which are very similar, all of which still run 30 in arcana, and we still are outperformed by other classes in hands of players with similar ‘skill’ (map understanding, mechanics understanding, battlefield awareness, rotation practice, decision-making abilities, etc).
All of those builds revolve around cantrips and just trying to stay alive rather than contributing anything meaningful just as any other profession can, even if other professions are limited to several builds as well – their options are still much better (bunker guardian, bunker spirit ranger).

We’re running not only high risk for comparably low reward, but also need extreme micro compared to other professions which is not rewarded in any other way when played correctly than simply being somewhat on par.

Elementalist’s skill damage should scale much better with power to pay off for the glassy side of the profession, or the profession needs a new way of protecting itself, and not a profession mechanic that simply inflates the micro and becomes a liability.

1 in-built survival mechanisms observed across professions, not based on weapon/trait/utility choice:
warrior – high health, high armor;
guardian – high armor, virtue which heal over time regardless of weapon (thus not comparable to water attunement), virtue which adds a block once in a while and can be used to block thingies, virtue that can easily be traited to blind foes;
thief – medium armor, stealth, evasions, shadow step on steal, useful skills gained on stealing;
ranger – medium health, medium armor, pet (which can be used for a variety of extra things, albeit still often is a liability now), evades on some weapons;
engineer – access to extra skills which is an optional mechanic (as opposed to ele’s attunement swapping, which is mandatory to play the profession properly), medium armor, medium health, double utility for the cost of one (toolbelt);
mesmer – illusions (generating visual noise), distortion;
necromancer – high health, death shroud, fear, shadow step to foe (in death shroud);

elementalist – …?
low health, low armor
extra effects on attunements only when traited making 30 arcana still necessary (otherwise attunements become ONLY a limiting factor – i would very much rather be forced to choose 2 and have them on regular ‘weapon swap’ while getting an actually useful profession mechanic)
…
nothing.

The lack of survivability pidgeon-holes Elementalist into points in Water and Arcana which make it very difficult for Elementalists to expand their traitlines.

I’ve actually been running a 25/15/0/0/30 build and i like it much more than going water and/or earth, and i am contributive – for an ele… which is still subpar to what non-ele teammates bring to the table.

The lack of survivability also pidgeon-holes Elementalists to run cantrips which makes it difficult for them to use other utilities.

Because i want to have some damage potential and be able to burst something or contribute in team fights with aoe burst, i am forced to run untraited cantrips. Not running cantrips is not an option, especially without any defence in vitality/toughness.

In order to properly balance the Elementalist we need to first need to understand all of the issues it is experiencing.

Limiting profession mechanic that inflates the required skill level of the player in order to play ‘properly’, especially when compared to other professions’ mechanics which are ‘useful addons’; DS being a panic button / extra in rotation, toolbelt being very situational (and THAT is OK!), stealing being situational and offering a shadow step / extra skill / cool stuff when traited, etc.
It is somewhat comparable to warrior, except warrior can trait adrenaline to be gained faster and burst skills to cause more damage (i am certain you’ve all seen burst-eviscerate builds), or be kept as a passive extra pool to boost the warrior in general (via grandmaster traits in strength and/or discipline). On the other hand, attunements can be traited to simply be a less liability than they naturally are.
I would start with that.

Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

Auras, but it would be very hard without overhauling all weapon skills. That Glyph of Auras is a nice idea, but not enough, especially that it’s a glyph and we’d still be forced to run cantrips.
Extra vigor sources. Currently there’s only one in arcana, and only on crits, aka for specific builds.

Endurance regen on attunement swap. Even with a trait, albeit some easily accessible. Gain 10% endurance on each attunement change.
Bountiful Attunement trait would be very good, too – gain random boon on attunement swap (aegis, protection, regeneration, vigor). Internal cooldown could balance it out (5s would be enough).

A utility skill offering reflects would be useful, even if on long recharge not to outshine mesmers in their natural habitat (keep in mind only mesmers and guardians have reflecting utilities, so it wouldn’t be gamebreaking, especially if balanced properly).
Any block except for Arcane Shield.

But the root of all problems is that nothing beneficial comes from attunements unless they’re traited (and that is mediocre, or worse), and proper attunement dancing puts you only on par with professions using 1-2 weapon sets. In theory we have access to 20 skills, but in practice we need to use those 20 skills in order to be even less useful than someone using their usual 10.
Bountiful Attunement. Endurance regen on attunement swap. 1s distortion on attunement swap (internal cooldown 20s, works only in combat). The profession mechanic should have something to offer.

Ele in PvP can’t be discussed only comparing it to other professions, but the general format context has to be kept in mind as well.
As far as PvP roles go…

Ele can’t bunker. Along with thief, it’s the worst profession to sit on a spot and delay the cap / survive long enough for backup to arrive.
Whether it’s mid tank or close offtank, everyone but thief does it much better.
Specifically, ele is not a good trebber due to squishiness when any pressure comes.

Ele can’t pressure far. With nerf to RTL, we lack map mobility for that (as opposed to combat mobility, which is relatively high on ele). Even worse, we can’t reliably 1v1 most professions, as they have both higher burst (comparing to available health pool of respective opponent) and a wider spectrum of means of survival.

Ele can’t steal creature. Arcane Shield alone is not enough to survive pressure from enemy and the forest creature while attempting to take it down (compare to ranger’s signet active effect that makes it invulnerable and allows to continue damaging, warrior’s endure pain, condi’neer’s elixir S after dropping conditions, necro’s DS, mesmer’s distortion, thief’s stealth, guardian’s blocks).
Also, mediocre map mobility.

Ele can destroy enemy treb… provided it’s empty.

Ele can decap and dance between empty spots, but only if traited specifically for that (faster running with daggers trait and/or signet of air).
This means that while built for it, its 1v1 potential is even more limited.

Ele can contribute a lot of aoe damage in teamfights, as long as the ele is not focused by the whole enemy team. In 3v3, if overlooked, ele can reign death upon all three enemies and their pets, minions, spirits, or whatever.
This is the only viable role for ele to play in tPvP.
And it still is outshun by power necros, zerker mesmers, thieves, bomb/nade engis, and hambow warriors.
Not to mention it’s limited by the innate squishiness – as soon as it’s focused in that 3v3, it can only mist form away.

Mbelch.9028:

Glad to see this thread.

Conditions. They are the bane of elementalists. I can’t tell you the last time I lost a direct damage duel. But the time I lost a condition damage duel was recent. We have enough clears, but we virtually have to devote ourselves to clearing conditions.

I literally have 30 points invested just so I don’t have to worry as much about hybrid condi builds. And against bomb engineers, why even try as a d/d ele?

ether renewal? .. no? … “DEY RUPT MER ETHER.”
Oh, I use rock solid, just saying.

Ele is in an amazing place right now.

drkn.3429:

The profession mechanic should have something to offer.

That’s what I’m saying since about half a year. Eles don’t even have 20 spells when substract the useless autohits and also consider the lack of F-spells that any other class has. That’s why I think traits like the 15P traits or elemental attunement should be included in our attunement-swap so that we get at least a little benefit from our “mechanic” that is nothing but a weapon-swap.

Another thing is that 20 spells aren’t really a benefit … it’s a handicap. Where some classes have a spell with 6s CD eles have 2 spells with 12s. Not much difference when it comes to efficiency but the high attunement-swap-CD makes it much more difficult for eles to time their spells and those spells also don’t compensate the lack of “oh-kitten-F-buttons”. Also traits like CD-reduction affect only 1/4 of our spells whereas on other classes these traits usually affect 1/2 (or even more depending on weapon-sets) of them (and often give other boni in addition). Maybe let those -20% CD on attunement-x-spells also reduce attunement-recharge rate?

mas.7401:

Ele is in an amazing place right now.

either stop trolling or bring some arguments …

The Game Slayer.7632:

Mbelch.9028:

Glad to see this thread.

Conditions. They are the bane of elementalists. I can’t tell you the last time I lost a direct damage duel. But the time I lost a condition damage duel was recent. We have enough clears, but we virtually have to devote ourselves to clearing conditions.

I literally have 30 points invested just so I don’t have to worry as much about hybrid condi builds. And against bomb engineers, why even try as a d/d ele?

ether renewal? .. no? … “DEY RUPT MER ETHER.”
Oh, I use rock solid, just saying.

Ether Renewal is good for condition clearing but not for healing. Even if you have stability opponents simply burst you while channeling because they know you can’t dodge. Meaning ether renewal heals for pretty much nothing in those 3,5 seconds.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Mbelch.9028:

Glad to see this thread.

Conditions. They are the bane of elementalists. I can’t tell you the last time I lost a direct damage duel. But the time I lost a condition damage duel was recent. We have enough clears, but we virtually have to devote ourselves to clearing conditions.

I literally have 30 points invested just so I don’t have to worry as much about hybrid condi builds. And against bomb engineers, why even try as a d/d ele?

ether renewal? .. no? … “DEY RUPT MER ETHER.”
Oh, I use rock solid, just saying.

Ether Renewal is good for condition clearing but not for healing. Even if you have stability opponents simply burst you while channeling because they know you can’t dodge. Meaning ether renewal heals for pretty much nothing in those 3,5 seconds.

That’s why I suggested to either add a damage-reduction to ether-renewal or do this via trait (Obsidian Focus is too weak to make a difference).

A distortion on channel trait would be awesome but prob also to OP

I’ve been playing Ele since release, and I don’t have any of these problems in PvP. I don’t think these are inherent flaws in class design or mistakes made in balance. There are things I would “like” to have as an Ele, but I don’t think there’s anything I truly need at the moment besides better balanced trait lines. Build diversity is the only thing that gets stale and unfun about the class.

Shinoobi.1259:

I’ve been playing Ele since release, and I don’t have any of these problems in PvP. I don’t think these are inherent flaws in class design or mistakes made in balance. There are things I would “like” to have as an Ele, but I don’t think there’s anything I truly need at the moment besides better balanced trait lines. Build diversity is the only thing that gets stale and unfun about the class.

The lack of balance becomes obvious when you play other professions in PvP, and more than five times to just check them out.

Top 3 ele worst downsides imho would be:

-the base hp/thoughness beeing ridiculous and make any other build “tanky”.
-the first 5pts bonuses while swapping elements should all be a core static bonuses for any ele build.
-not beeing able to swap weap while in fight for a ranged/close combat or aoe/solo focus adaptation , even with our usual high cd

Personally what i experience as a full time ele since beta is that the following is very active in the ele atm, Pidgeon holing is one big part of it;

No reall condition removal, we can get a trait for it, sure, but its not reliable or fun to be pidgeon holed in a certain trait to surive condition spammers. We might get a utility slot for it, but condi spam dont just put 1 condi on you. they constantly condi you, and with high cooldowns it seems impossible to defeat unless your specifically specced to defeat a condi user.

If we spec traits at this stage we have a very definite pick. You either Go full out DPS zerker mode, or you go ultra defensive tanky mode.
Both have weaknesses greater then the strenghts of each.

As you can see in the Ele forums allot of elementalist either complain about being super squishy OR having no damage output. The sole reason of this is that the only reall traits worth having are the grandmaster traits, wich instantly pidgeonholes you into one or the other. Aka, you cannot mix and match as i think was intended to find that sweet spot, its OR you do dps, OR you go tank. since if you do both, you cannot get the good (needed) GM traits and the weaknesses greatly outshine the boons.

Cooldowns,

My personal opinion on this as a primary staff user is that cooldowns at this stage for a staff user who wants to roam is literally impossible to do. Huge cooldowns on all big money spells even if you constantly attune-swap, same goes with a few money casting times. I feel AIR 2 can be fixed alone with lowering the cooldown + cast time whilst removing time on howlong the opponent is blinded. (this is an example of what i mean)

Me personally i have adapted to the idea that im a berserker elementalist with no healthpool and slight healing capabilities and that whenever i see a condi user or a skilled thief i will die regardless. Same with mass stunbreakers from enemies. (since staff ele in that sense is 50% CC, you autoloss vs anyone who has short cooldowns on stunbreakers or is specced that way.

I feel auras could be a solution, increase uptime of arcane aura for example or give small extra aura buffs regarding both survivability and dps(like combofield auras), This way, the traitset is instantly fixed due to having more survivability as full dps or it can give some extra dps as tank.

If auras would be added, DONT make it a GM trait, otherwise youll instantly pidgeon hole the class again.

One example of a great aura;

If power is X
Aura gives X seconds toughness/healing or attack blocks
If toughness is Z
Aura gives Z seconds might/critical chance etc.

make this a passive trait with not too high of boons, without cooldowns wich hit whenever you combofield correctly for example. This way you can literally create any sort of elementalist whilst still kind of being generally capable to actually do more then JUST WvW or JUST PvE.

Thank you for reading.

I love how devs are ignoring all elementalist balance threads when it’s the most critical balance issue

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

Focus contains two skills for projectile defense an invulnerability and a ranged knocked down. The only way to actually have no projectile defense is to play /D.

I love how we are suppose to be the “jack of all trades” in a game where the trinity doesn’t exist making every class technically the jack of all trades since every class has to do everything because of the lack a trinity but yet we have to be sub par at being the jack of all trades. Has anybody else thought of this?

Edit: Shouldn’t we be the best at being the jack of all trades due to being lowest health/armor in the game?

Ancient Ranger.3276:

I love how we are suppose to be the “jack of all trades” in a game where the trinity doesn’t exist making every class technically the jack of all trades since every class has to do everything because of the lack a trinity but yet we have to be sub par at being the jack of all trades. Has anybody else thought of this?

I think the idea was supposed to be that eles would rotate through the different roles with their attunements. Indeed, 30 arcana and/or 20 water works a lot like this—you get a burst of healing when you go water and a burst of aoe in fire, and a burst of single target in air (and ?? from earth). The problem is it is completely unsustainable and cannot out DPS a healing signet on its own.

ens.9854:

Ancient Ranger.3276:

I love how we are suppose to be the “jack of all trades” in a game where the trinity doesn’t exist making every class technically the jack of all trades since every class has to do everything because of the lack a trinity but yet we have to be sub par at being the jack of all trades. Has anybody else thought of this?

I think the idea was supposed to be that eles would rotate through the different roles with their attunements. Indeed, 30 arcana and/or 20 water works a lot like this—you get a burst of healing when you go water and a burst of aoe in fire, and a burst of single target in air (and ?? from earth). The problem is it is completely unsustainable and cannot out DPS a healing signet on its own.

From earth is suppose to be the condition burst. Really only air on scepter is single target burst(not sure about focus). If you are talking about the minor master traits(the 15 point traits) To get the full rotation you need to waste 60 out of the 70 trait points and due to last patch elemental atunement and cleansing wave is now out of reach.

Edit: maybe not cleansing wave because you still have the 10 extra points but i was thinking about a (15/15/15/15/10) build

drkn.3429:

Shinoobi.1259:

I’ve been playing Ele since release, and I don’t have any of these problems in PvP. I don’t think these are inherent flaws in class design or mistakes made in balance. There are things I would “like” to have as an Ele, but I don’t think there’s anything I truly need at the moment besides better balanced trait lines. Build diversity is the only thing that gets stale and unfun about the class.

The lack of balance becomes obvious when you play other professions in PvP, and more than five times to just check them out.

I have five other level 80s all with sPvP, tPvP, WvW experience. Ele is just my main, and I still don’t agree with all the mass whining most of the points on the main page attempts to make.

ensoriki.5789:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

Focus contains two skills for projectile defense an invulnerability and a ranged knocked down. The only way to actually have no projectile defense is to play /D.

Equip focus. Lose 50% of your damage. Also suddenly melee attackers kitten you.

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

Combining traits and utility skills since utilites are always available in every elementstance. Elemental Surge is a great example. You can have a lot of sideeffects with Arcane Skills. Its too hard to get all boon bonuses of Cantrips by speccing in different traits.

Also I think that Lightning Surge should be a stunbreaker again. Nobody uses this skill till today.

The trait “Earth’s Embrace” (Earth3) is not reliable enough. Actually I think that it should trigger on Stun/Knockdown/Sink/Knockback/Pull/andsoon as the warrior’s trait.

Its just too hard to mix up all the different utilities to be efficient enough. Especially when speccing 30 into Arcane its not possible to have even more bonuses for Cantrips.

One of the most important things are that Cantrip-stunbreaker have a too high cooldown. “Endure Pain” on the Warrior has a 60s cooldown without any reduction.
Armor of Earth’ Cooldown is also way too high. Warrior’s “Balanced Stance” has a 40s cooldown and grants additional swiftness.
6s additional Protection and 6s Stability by Armor of Earth every 90s (without Cantrip cooldown reduction) is questionable. You will have 7.75s stability/protection of Armor of Earth if you spec 30 into Arcane. Thats still not enough.

Furthermore conditions are a HUGE issue. Does anybody use “Signet of Water” and it’s active effect? It should clear at least 3 or 4 conditions when activating. Else you will be pushed back into “Evasive Arcane” and Dagger-Offhand again.
Buffing Signets would be a good direction anyway since it would make “Written In Stone” (Earth12) finally viable.

Staff skills need to be faster – as mentioned. Its not possible to make a decent condition cleanse by using Healing Rain (Staff 5, Water). Its too slow and too ineffective for GuildWars 2’s fast paced combatsystem.
Focus skills need a cooldown reduction or better effects.

- – -

To sum it up: There are a lot of possibilities since there are still skills without good functions. Signet of Water’s active effect is useless and Arcane Shield doesn’t is not reactive enough. It needs more damage or a bigger counter so the enemies would watch out for that ability as for confusion.
Trait sideeffects are fine. I see that Arcane Skills are pretty offensive – This is okay … But as an Arcane elementalist its too hard to get good cantrips in your build. Especially if you don’t have a cooldown reduction for Cantrips … Which would bring us back to Water traits.

As I see this thread fall out of the first page of the balance forums, I am beginning to wonder, do we really have a problem or do people not care about the state of elementalists anymore?

As evident by a few posters above, we see claims that there are no problems with elementalists. Why is that so? For me, the problems are clear as day in sPvP and solo WvW roaming. In WvW zerging, you are shoehorned into the support role with staff, everything else is subpar.

However, in pve, elementalists seem fine. Is this really because elementalists are truly fine in pve or more an indictment of the current ease of gameplay in the pve environment?

Or is it a case where we ancient ones stick too much to the past and can’t look past the old tested builds? If that is so, please for those of you who say that elementalists are fine, tell us where you play in, what your builds are and how you play it.

Teach us old dogs a few new tricks!

Mash Hog.5672:

What would be the best way to implement these Auras so that they’re more effective as our active defense?

Trait:
Get “X” Aura on Blast Finishing a certain Field.

We already have that in the form of ice fields + blasts.

i don t think ele is fine in pve…

Except those 2 gimmick builds, you are doing no damage with your WEAPON skills

You have the conjured bow burst, the hammer sustained and the fgs bug or the fire 22222 staff build mostly…

If you instead like to play D/D S/D or S/F or staff with 4 attunements your sustained damage is terrible even when you finished stacking 25 might.

D/D and S/F in particular needs lot of love in pve….we didn t roll an elementalist to swing a hammer or run against the wall with a sword.

florence.1674:

As I see this thread fall out of the first page of the balance forums, I am beginning to wonder, do we really have a problem or do people not care about the state of elementalists anymore?

The reason I stopped posting here is because I cannot take this discussion too seriously. Alot of our current problems are there not because elementalist is in a bad state but because they created a very ridiculous meta and introduced alot of questionable balance patches. I don’t even have the feeling ANet itself knows where they want this classes to be.

What needs to be done, for all classes not just the elementalist is that there needs to be a cleanup for traits. EVERY single class has buggy, not viable or simply unpractical traits. Some traits on the other hand are way over the top. It’s a complete mess actually. Same goes for weapon and utility skills. And again it applies to any class.

Before even attempting to balance they should basically start to clean thos things up.

Second reason I don’t post here anymore is because most eles have a very unrealistic and biased point of view. The majority here just wants some serious buffs. I believe this would make the meta game an even worse one.

This is a thread about ele state in PvP.

As evident by a few posters above, we see claims that there are no problems with elementalists. Why is that so?

Bad players? Not enough experience with other professions? Got a team strong enough to carry them on the ele? Lucky enough to run into worse players?

We already have that in the form of ice fields + blasts.

Single ice field on staff, which is already terrible in PvP.

Something new I’d like to add, but I’m afraid won’t receive attention here. Perhaps you could add it to your thread post, Gasmic.

Eles can suffer from chill, but our attunements can’t… This means anybody who keeps up perma chill on an ele will win, especially if its a terrormancer necro (A direct counter to d/d ele in spvp).

Other classes’ weapon swaps aren’t affected, I don’t believe? Correct me if I’m wrong there, but even if they are, ele shouldn’t be. Our attunement swap isn’t’ the equivalent of a weapon swap. Usually by the time an ele notices he has chill, there are other conditions there as well, and a clear would be useful, or is being bursted and feared, so needs to swap through either water or earth in a pinch. This is even if we only just swapped to fire or air, so a fight could obviously get mucked up pretty easily by this condition.

As everybody on this forum knows, I’m a strong supporter of buffing condition removal, removing condition duration food.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

ensoriki.5789:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mash Hog.5672:

vanensang.1389:

Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.

There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).

There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.

Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.

Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?

IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.

I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.

Focus contains two skills for projectile defense an invulnerability and a ranged knocked down. The only way to actually have no projectile defense is to play /D.

Equip focus. Lose 50% of your damage. Also suddenly melee attackers kitten you.

Focus is a utility weapon, not damage. I’ve run D/F for quite a while now, and I’ve found that any problems I experience with melee opponents are more tied to the class in general or my mistakes than they are to my weaponset.

Mbelch.9028:

Something new I’d like to add, but I’m afraid won’t receive attention here. Perhaps you could add it to your thread post, Gasmic.

Eles can suffer from chill, but our attunements can’t… This means anybody who keeps up perma chill on an ele will win, especially if its a terrormancer necro (A direct counter to d/d ele in spvp).

Other classes’ weapon swaps aren’t affected, I don’t believe? Correct me if I’m wrong there, but even if they are, ele shouldn’t be. Our attunement swap isn’t’ the equivalent of a weapon swap. Usually by the time an ele notices he has chill, there are other conditions there as well, and a clear would be useful, or is being bursted and feared, so needs to swap through either water or earth in a pinch. This is even if we only just swapped to fire or air, so a fight could obviously get mucked up pretty easily by this condition.

As everybody on this forum knows, I’m a strong supporter of buffing condition removal, removing condition duration food.

I actually do agree that chill shouldn’t effect attunment swaps because they are not skills in general(or at least A-net stated that with the SoR skills nerf). So i really don’t think they should be affected by chill. Secondly I can’t add to whether chill affects weapons swaps for other classes as I only play an ELE but if for sure doesn’t effect swapping tool kits on an engineer.

For me balancing the ele is a simple matter :

New Traits (to replace useless ones) :
ARCANA:
- Increase AoE target limit for ele to 7 via a Grandmaster Arcana trait (good alternative to evasive arcana for staff users).

FIRE:
- A Master Fire trait should make a meteor shower as a smoke field which would give stealth when blasted (increase survival with points in fire).

EARTH:
- Earthen Blast should be a blast finisher on earth attunement (15 sec cd or something)

WATER:
- Water is fine as it stands but could be improved (ice field when down, ice shield when hit with a crit. along with regen).

Skills:
- Increase the projectile speed of all primary attack for Staff and reduce casting time by 50% (might as well improve the sound effects while your at it). Reduce damage output accordingly.

- increase the damage of Air 2 skill on staff to compensate for slow channelling.

- Redo Water staff 1rst skill as it was in the promotional videos before the game was release.

- Increase the damage with Focus

Lots of good points here.
I’m going to start adding more to the main thread.

Lets talk specifically about our Attunement Mechanic and how that hurts us instead of helps us.

Mash Hog.5672:

Lots of good points here.
I’m going to start adding more to the main thread.

Lets talk specifically about our Attunement Mechanic and how that hurts us instead of helps us.

I think I touched on it earlier with chill. Other than that, I don’t believe it does hurt us. We have to pick our poison. Range or melee. D/D has a good deal of gap closers and reasonably ranged attacks, so I’m not too concerned with that.

I wish conjures were worth taking, such that lightning hammer had all four attunements, and defensive and offensive skills on all. Lightning hammer was just an example. If frost bow was better altered to have all attunements and more charges, d/d users could have it to compensate for range for a time. Staff users could switch to any number of the weapons to protect themselves in melee.

Basically, make conjures worth a kitten.

Past that, arcana should be re-extended to -attunement recharge, with the 25 and 30 granting an additional amount of recharge rate. This allows for quicker weapon swap, something I believe we need, and anet set themselves up for it by condensing the bonus to just 20 arcana.

Past that, our best skills could use considerable shortenings. RTL and updraft don’t deserve 40 second cool downs, not does churning earth or fire grab. Give me a break on that one.

If we saw even a slight drop in skill cooldowns, a little bit of an increased recharge rate and conjure weapons worth burning a slot on, we may see complaints about our skill mechanic diminish.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Mbelch.9028:

Glad to see this thread.

Conditions. They are the bane of elementalists. I can’t tell you the last time I lost a direct damage duel. But the time I lost a condition damage duel was recent. We have enough clears, but we virtually have to devote ourselves to clearing conditions.

I literally have 30 points invested just so I don’t have to worry as much about hybrid condi builds. And against bomb engineers, why even try as a d/d ele?

ether renewal? .. no? … “DEY RUPT MER ETHER.”
Oh, I use rock solid, just saying.

I don’t appreciate the sarcasm. Ether renewal is in my opinion an inferior healing skill. It’s length and the fact that it forces you to quit combat make for the ride of your life. You had better use it when your opponent is low, otherwise yes, believe me it will be interrupted. Rock solid you say? Yes a valid pvp option, but it greatly decreases your DPS. I have played ele for an extremely long time and given each of our skills lengthy testing.

Your opinions are yours, but try to get some fact into them before bashing me.

Marcos.3690:

zach.1952:

Elementalist itself needs several things:

• Better elites. Seriously, I’m tired of only having one decent skill (yes, Tornado, and even then it’s not that great comparatively) that is only good in certain situations. Maybe an elite signet? Something passive would be nice, especially when it boosts survivability.

Signet of elements – Cooldown: 60 seconds.
Passive: Reduces the Attunement cooldowns by 2 seconds.
Active: Recharge all attunements

The dream!!

^This. And Replace fresh air with something usefull.

oZii.2864:

Mash Hog.5672:

oZii.2864:

Mash Hog.5672:

The reason I didn’t post this was because I felt that we had enough condi clears and good enough access to it. The issue lies more on the fact that condispam is incredibly prevalent and THAT needs to be toned down instead of our defense against conditions moved up.

I agree Ele has good condition management options. It is just that conditions need to be toned down. In dueling/roaming in WvW it is different then sPvP balance.

I bring up my time playing guardians alot but I feel that people compare ele’s defensive abilities to guards and our offensive abilities to warriors.

Sure a ele has to go 30 water and 20 arcana for 50 point investment but a guard has to go 30 honor, 10 valor, and 20 virtues for a 60 point investment and to really click you need some extra runes on top of it with soldier. Ether renewal tips it totally into eles favor since guards just have signet for 1 condi every 10 secs.

If anything I would say using this perspective is that guards have some pretty good group utilites to deal with conditions. Ele could maybe use some help on the utility front to deal with conditions and maybe that would allow some people to feel comfortable moving out of water though many don’t go 30 in water and that is really D/D and Staff bunkers.

I would like mainhand dagger given something like rock barrier.

Thats where Glyphs and Sigils can come in:
Once Glyphs and Sigils get turned into more effective utilities, we would be able to build around those utilities and explore new builds.

Yea I agree the glyphs and signets are a bit selfish with signets being pretty lackluster. I added some more to that specific post you quoted saying the same thing.

Signet of Air is awesome though. AoE blind and a stunbreak on a relatively low cooldown.

Zomaarwat.3912:

Signet of Air is awesome though. AoE blind and a stunbreak on a relatively low cooldown.

Agreed. The only issue I have with the skill is it’s passive. A movement speed boost on a profession that has a hard time NOT getting perma swiftness as a side product of pretty much every build feels a bit wasteful to me. If it were a 10% speed boost that stacked with swiftness however, that’s be a whole different story.

ThiBash.5634:

Zomaarwat.3912:

Signet of Air is awesome though. AoE blind and a stunbreak on a relatively low cooldown.

Agreed. The only issue I have with the skill is it’s passive. A movement speed boost on a profession that has a hard time NOT getting perma swiftness as a side product of pretty much every build feels a bit wasteful to me. If it were a 10% speed boost that stacked with swiftness however, that’s be a whole different story.

That’s just because we have no build diversity. When the day comes that we are no longer forced into arcane we won’t have perma swiftness in all builds anymore. Even now I played a lot of builds that relied on signet of air for movement speed, especially focus builds.

We’re taking damage from confusion on attunement swap. Not sure if it’s related to Elemental Attunement, or simply there. We also take damage from confusion upon dodging with EA; do all other professions (warrior, mesmer, thief, i’m looking at you) take confusion damage on traited dodge?