Guild Wars 2

Hi, I’ve been playing trap ranger for very long time and over past few months there has become several problems with the build making it no longer viable in the current meta.

Without some change’s to the trap build in terms of survival, frost trap and the elite Entangle. the build won’t make it back into the meta.

Current problems

• Frost Trap – Currently the trap offers no base damage and the combo field is sub-par compared to Flame & Poison combo fields which is coming soon. Cool-downs on Frost is to long, making it sub-par compared to other traps.
• Entangle has to be reworked, currently most classes will break free of the roots within the first second. For an elite skill its almost weaker then Spike Trap.
• All Trap builds require you to use all 3 Utility Slots for 3 traps Spike/Flame/Poison, leaving you no room for any survival skills.

Don’t believe there is problem with the damage output of the Trap ranger both Carrion and Rabid build both deal decent damage.

How to fix the problem

• Improve Frost Trap so it does base damage on pulse and reduce the cool-down so same as spike trap. We don’t have a 4th utility slot so take spike over frost is a better options due to cool-down and damage.
• Entangle needs to be changed from Bleeds to Torment, how it would work is it will stack 1 torment every second with max of 10 stacks. Now this isn’t over powered most classes break free of Entangle extremely fast so the chances of them getting more then few stacks is low, the skill is and Elite so should be treated as an elite.
• There needs to be way to add a stun-breaker to one of our traps. E.g. if you didn’t want to add base damage to frost trap and leave it with its current cool-down you could change one of its functions to stun-breaker.

Examples

• Engineer’s when using AR make it almost impossible for a trap ranger to beat them, we don’t have the base damage to break there 25%, so the trap ranger will never become a meta build as-long as AR is still in play.

• Warriors, are one of the hardest counters to the Trap build, the trap build counts on its CC from immobilize and cripple to keep the warrior at range, but due to Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, Dogged March, Mobile Strikes and Lyssa runes they have far to much counter and they can just charge forward destroying you.

If you really wanted to make the Trap Ranger a better build you would move Trapper’s Defense/Trapper’s Expertise/Trap Potency to the Marksmanship Trait line.

Trap Ranger build can’t use the bonuses you get from Condition Duration in the Marksmanship line due to simple fact you are Required to take 30 Wilderness Survival to have any type of survival, and you need 30 in Skirmishing to get the Trap Traits.

So hopefully this helps the Dev’s make traps a more viable smarter build.

Traps are better off in wilderness survival traitline than marksmanship.

runeblade.7514:

Traps are better off in wilderness survival traitline than marksmanship.

Sorry but that is rather bad idea. You want to take away all our survival and give us 0 condition remove no chance of taking stun-break and losing our vigor upkeep support.

Sorry but that would be one of worst things Anet could do to the ranger it would gut the build to point of useless.

I’ve played traps a long time now, albeit mostly in WvW not sPvP so it is slightly different. I have to say I am very opposed to moving the traps from their traitline, them being there really does allow for fantasic hybrid builds in WvW, its shame that hybriding is so lame in sPvP.

Not sure I agree with your solutions either. Like you said the damage output of trapping is fine already, but you can lack survivability option (I actually only run 2 traps because I want a stunbreaker in there).

Instead of giving us more damage by adding it to the frost trap perhaps the GM trap trait could be changed (and its current effect merged with the master trait) so that traps pulse defensive boons as well as conditions. Flame trap could give vigor (doesnt have to be long.. 1-2 seconds per pulse), frost trap could give protection, vipers nest could give retaliation and since spike trap doesnt pulse perhaps it should be a blast finisher to synergise with all the fields traps rangers get.

This would help trappers defensively, as well as help them bring more group orientated support (which currently only spirit rangers do), without buffing their already pretty decent damage.

Also one other thing.. entangle applying torment when it also hold the target in place so they cant move doesnt really make sense :s

Then there should be zero change. No moving of traits in mm or WS. Trap traits in mm makes zero sense.

Cufufalating.8479:

I’ve played traps a long time now, albeit mostly in WvW not sPvP so it is slightly different. I have to say I am very opposed to moving the traps from their traitline, them being there really does allow for fantasic hybrid builds in WvW, its shame that hybriding is so lame in sPvP.

Not sure I agree with your solutions either. Like you said the damage output of trapping is fine already, but you can lack survivability option (I actually only run 2 traps because I want a stunbreaker in there).

Instead of giving us more damage by adding it to the frost trap perhaps the GM trap trait could be changed (and its current effect merged with the master trait) so that traps pulse defensive boons as well as conditions. Flame trap could give vigor (doesnt have to be long.. 1-2 seconds per pulse), frost trap could give protection, vipers nest could give retaliation and since spike trap doesnt pulse perhaps it should be a blast finisher to synergise with all the fields traps rangers get.

This would help trappers defensively, as well as help them bring more group orientated support (which currently only spirit rangers do), without buffing their already pretty decent damage.

Also one other thing.. entangle applying torment when it also hold the target in place so they cant move doesnt really make sense :s

Yeah I used to WvW Trap ranger allot, but I can’t stand WvW anymore just to OP there. This post was more directed at SPvP.

I do like the idea’s of removing boons with traps or adding boons but that could become rather strong a tad to strong. I think if you made it when you use a trap you apply say a boon wouldn’t be over powered when traited. I do think you might be onto something here in terms of survival.

Reason for the Entangle change is currently almost every single class bar ranger which is funny walks right out of the entangle or has escape skill, I think they should be punished for escaping. We talking Elite skill here that is worse the Spike Trap.

I mainly made this topic to get something rolling in the balance forums recently I said something to grouch about Trap Ranger and he said he thinks it’s fine so they makes me believe the balance dev’s also think Trap Ranger is fine.

So hopefully if we can point out the problems we are seeing with the trap ranger main one being its SURVIVAL they might take look at the build try and workout ways to improve that.

The tree they belong in is Wilderness Survival as the above poster said. You’re right though, the Ranger sacrifices too much utility if they’re in that tree. The more sensible thing would be to no longer require the Ranger to put 2 traits into traps before they’re useful. Another option is to simply make traps able to crit and deal power damage for burst so they actually fit in the tree they’re in currently.

Spike Trap also needs to be completely changed. It’s absolutely useless without traits. At least the others could have some laughably marginal role.

Much better option putting it into a useful trait line rather then removing our survival by making it WS, honestly I’m starting to think none of you guys play ranger.

Just so you know Trap’s already Crit and have Power Damage.

You do realize traps are utility skills? You actually have weapon skills that you could occasionally use to, say, evade that warrior steamrolling towards you.

From an sPvP game mode, I think traps are well balanced. They’re meant to be used offensively and do that role well. And then when the ranger weapon skills and pet skills are factored in, the amount of condition pressure the ranger can apply is huge. Frost trap is very underrated as well considering it provides a 5 second ice field that applies 10 seconds of aoe chill on a 24 second cool down. However, that being said, the trap ranger is the last person you’d want defending a point considering his lack of defensive utility.

Trap ranger is non existent in all other game modes.

@bllius.9027, not sure your playing same class as me or your still very new to Ranger.

@Sin Stonestrike.9326, Sorry its nice idea, but you require 30 in Wilderness Survival if you want to be competitive , you need the self condition remove its a must. Everything always sounds great on paper but doing it in a SPvP game E.g. Team Que’s that build would be burden to your team, your a free kill.

Like some of the idea’s are fine in WvW but that isn’t what I call PvP more OP builds. But when come to being a competitive build there so many factors you need to think about.

You can try and say your evades on weapons will save you which I find funny cause it won’t.

First necro to spite you at start of battle just killed you.

Soilder.3607:

From an sPvP game mode, I think traps are well balanced. They’re meant to be used offensively and do that role well. And then when the ranger weapon skills and pet skills are factored in, the amount of condition pressure the ranger can apply is huge. Frost trap is very underrated as well considering it provides a 5 second ice field that applies 10 seconds of aoe chill on a 24 second cool down. However, that being said, the trap ranger is the last person you’d want defending a point considering his lack of defensive utility.

Trap ranger is non existent in all other game modes.

trapranger is pretty weak after all that powercreep against conditionbuilds.. every player that is not braindead only walks 1 time into the traps. every war just activates zerkerstance and now the ranger has > 20secs no pressure.

trap traits shouldnt be in WS!
think about it . when we need to use the M and GM trait in WS for the trap traits we will have zero survivability
we cant use EB or other good traits in the most used trait tree of the ranger.
u just think oh in WS is condi dmg…traps have to there…
thats not clever with that no trapbuild will longer exists because most builds need 30 in WS for EB or BS.
U want more base dmg as trapper against engis or condi counters? the is skirmishing thousand times better. power and condi duration is better if u really want to change the traits in other lines

@sol – sorry, you appear to be the one wrong here

Sol.4310:

runeblade.7514:

Traps are better off in wilderness survival traitline than marksmanship.

Sorry but that is rather bad idea. You want to take away all our survival and give us 0 condition remove no chance of taking stun-break and losing our vigor upkeep support.

Sorry but that would be one of worst things Anet could do to the ranger it would gut the build to point of useless.

Actually ranger traits just need a huge overhaul. It is completely true that traps should be in the condition damage traitline and not in precision/crit damage but your claim that we would lose empathic bond is true as well.

Ranger traits are just kittened up but what we get is not a fix but a “viper trap is now a poison field huehuehuehue”.

My suggestion for a fix (or atleast a start for a fix):

[A]
Trapper’s Expertise – Trap skills use ground targeting and are larger.

swapped with

Martial Mastery – Reduces recharge on sword, greatsword, and spear skills.

[B]
Trap Potency - Conditions caused by traps last longer. Reduces recharge on traps.

swapped with

Empathic Bond – Pets periodically take conditions from you.

[C ]
Agility Training – Pets move faster.

swapped with

Empathic Bond – Pets periodically take conditions from you.

[D]
Remove Agility Training and create a new Skirmishing Grandmaster Trait.

Disclaimer: Yes, this makes Empathic Bond accessible as an skirmishing adept trait and yes, this is exactly what ranger (and also power ranger) needs in my opinion. Being the only condition removal it should be accessible and if anything it could still be nerfed.

Putting them in condi duration is not gonna solve any problems. Given how condis are calculated (full second or no tick), given that no real person stays in the trap for more than a tick, and given most trap condis lasts one second (base), and given the GM trait does not add to the trap duration before any other condis duration are factored in,
A trap build needs 100% condis duration to gain one second more on traps’ condis against other players.

Sol got some very solid points..He is right actually.

But the power Ranger is the one that needs the most help right now..Ask again Grouch and let us know if he will say again that “power Ranger is fine”…

There is nothing wrong with the Traps Traits and their placement, They’re in a good line for Trap Builds.

The Problem with Traps is they’re subpar in the first place.

So, we leave the Traps in Skirmishing Trait Line which is fine by me, I already have 2 great builds work well with that trait line.

Next question, how do we get more survival with a trap build? few options.

• Give spike trap a blind field for the duration of the trap which is 3 seconds.

• Make a Trap kit, where all 4 traps are under one Utility Skill, and an extra trap called Dust Trap (GW1 Trap) work it so there is CD on the Trap Kit so once used you have to wait E.g. 10 seconds before you can use it again or have it work same as Kit’s on Engineers. This opens the last 2 slots on the Trap Build so we can use survival skills.

• Add a Stun-Break to one of the Traps.

• Add new function to GM Trait where traps also apply A boon or remove A boon.

Halve the reason Traps are hurting in terms of Survival now was the Nerf to Vigor, ranger’s don’t have blinds or blocks like most classes our tank comes from raw face tanking and dodge’s including weapons. I now always take the Vigor Traits when ever I can just to give myself upkeep on my dodge.

Trap’s aren’t sub-par, I’ve done heaps of dueling and Solo Que + Team Que with my trap build, very strong at defending weak at attacking, when I was dueling I took on many different builds and classes I found open field fights are killer for trap build but back points are very easy to hold. LB on the warrior is rather hard to compete with, the burning field on point counters any type of regen I might get or have, and you will very rarely dodge the immobilize from there #5 (ask any warrior they rarely miss, the warrior plays for my team said only way he will miss is if the target is at almost max ranger and he randomly does a dodge other then that its like heating seeking and never misses.)

So, yeah I just want to see Trap’s get improvement in terms of Survival.

Now for the Power build I was going to make a post, but that build is so far from being viable it isn’t funny, to get decent damage you have no Survival out side of your #3 on your LB. I honestly don’t think the build will be fixed for very long time until they fix our survival traits Condition Remove being the main problem.

Combine the Trap Traits, add a daze to Frost Trap

Terravos.4059:

Combine the Trap Traits, add a daze to Frost Trap

What tier would you combine the trap traits? would you aim for us being able to E.g. 0/20/0/0/0.

I think something should be added to Frost Trap but. Does no Damage and Combo Field isn’t as good as Poison or Flame.

Remove Martial Mastery.
Move Empathic Bond to a 20 pt trait.
Move Trap Potency to 30pt WS trait.
Merge Trap Potency with Trap Expertise.

Choice now is offense in trap potency or defense in bark skin.

Frost Trap should stun for 2 seconds if you have trap potency.

Atherakhia.4086:

Remove Martial Mastery.
Move Empathic Bond to a 20 pt trait.
Move Trap Potency to 30pt WS trait.
Merge Trap Potency with Trap Expertise.

Choice now is offense in trap potency or defense in bark skin.

Frost Trap should stun for 2 seconds if you have trap potency.

Great idea but it won’t happen I’ll explain why, cause everyone will run Trap/Spirit/Bunker Anet aren’t that stupid where they will give us epic tanky dps condition build.

Think about it you take Sun Spirit/Spirit Elite + Spike Trap/Frost or Viper and you got yourself OP tanky build.

I would personally run 0/0/30/20/20 and take BM Traits as well to make my pet stronger and take duel birds. Now that’s OP build.

Sol.4310:

Atherakhia.4086:

Remove Martial Mastery.
Move Empathic Bond to a 20 pt trait.
Move Trap Potency to 30pt WS trait.
Merge Trap Potency with Trap Expertise.

Choice now is offense in trap potency or defense in bark skin.

Frost Trap should stun for 2 seconds if you have trap potency.

Great idea but it won’t happen I’ll explain why, cause everyone will run Trap/Spirit/Bunker Anet aren’t that stupid where they will give us epic tanky dps condition build.

Think about it you take Sun Spirit/Spirit Elite + Spike Trap/Frost or Viper and you got yourself OP tanky build.

I would personally run 0/0/30/20/20 and take BM Traits as well to make my pet stronger and take duel birds. Now that’s OP build.

Empathic bond needs to move. Power options will never be viable so long as it’s 30 deep. Traps also make absolutely 0 sense where they are and leaving them in Skirmishing out of laziness is just plain stupid. If you want to leave them in skirmishing then up their damage to 300ish so they make sense where they are. At least then they’ll be dual role and you can build hybrid, power, or condi and they’ll have a use regardless. Heck, people may even use them without any traits if they could kill a critter in 1 hit.

Atherakhia.4086:

Sol.4310:

Atherakhia.4086:

Remove Martial Mastery.
Move Empathic Bond to a 20 pt trait.
Move Trap Potency to 30pt WS trait.
Merge Trap Potency with Trap Expertise.

Choice now is offense in trap potency or defense in bark skin.

Frost Trap should stun for 2 seconds if you have trap potency.

Great idea but it won’t happen I’ll explain why, cause everyone will run Trap/Spirit/Bunker Anet aren’t that stupid where they will give us epic tanky dps condition build.

Think about it you take Sun Spirit/Spirit Elite + Spike Trap/Frost or Viper and you got yourself OP tanky build.

I would personally run 0/0/30/20/20 and take BM Traits as well to make my pet stronger and take duel birds. Now that’s OP build.

Empathic bond needs to move. Power options will never be viable so long as it’s 30 deep. Traps also make absolutely 0 sense where they are and leaving them in Skirmishing out of laziness is just plain stupid. If you want to leave them in skirmishing then up their damage to 300ish so they make sense where they are. At least then they’ll be dual role and you can build hybrid, power, or condi and they’ll have a use regardless. Heck, people may even use them without any traits if they could kill a critter in 1 hit.

I agree about Empathic Bond, it needs to moved out of GM Trait and down one Tier and maybe in a different Trait line, look at Warrior there condition remove which is just as good as EB if not better cause its Active rather then passive removes just as many if not more conditions and isn’t a GM trait.

• Traps are vectors for condition damage, having all their traits in the precision/crit dmg line makes no sense
• IMO should be 900 range when traited. 600 range might be fine for sPVP but it is a serious limitation for WVW.
• Would make a lot of sense if Entangle were a trap

Or they could make trap more power based, this way traps’ll become better Skirmishing tools.

I’d like :
- they make a simple adept trait Trap Mastery that reduces recharge on traps (20%)
- they move Trap Potency in master part so with 20 points you could choose to make them last longer or use ground targeting.

And yes 600 range is too short.

Sol.4310:

Atherakhia.4086:

Sol.4310:

Atherakhia.4086:

Remove Martial Mastery.
Move Empathic Bond to a 20 pt trait.
Move Trap Potency to 30pt WS trait.
Merge Trap Potency with Trap Expertise.

Choice now is offense in trap potency or defense in bark skin.

Frost Trap should stun for 2 seconds if you have trap potency.

Ehhh, I do agree that EB should be a master trait, but I don’t want it to compete with Martial Mastery.
Great idea but it won’t happen I’ll explain why, cause everyone will run Trap/Spirit/Bunker Anet aren’t that stupid where they will give us epic tanky dps condition build.

Think about it you take Sun Spirit/Spirit Elite + Spike Trap/Frost or Viper and you got yourself OP tanky build.

I would personally run 0/0/30/20/20 and take BM Traits as well to make my pet stronger and take duel birds. Now that’s OP build.

Empathic bond needs to move. Power options will never be viable so long as it’s 30 deep. Traps also make absolutely 0 sense where they are and leaving them in Skirmishing out of laziness is just plain stupid. If you want to leave them in skirmishing then up their damage to 300ish so they make sense where they are. At least then they’ll be dual role and you can build hybrid, power, or condi and they’ll have a use regardless. Heck, people may even use them without any traits if they could kill a critter in 1 hit.

I agree about Empathic Bond, it needs to moved out of GM Trait and down one Tier and maybe in a different Trait line, look at Warrior there condition remove which is just as good as EB if not better cause its Active rather then passive removes just as many if not more conditions and isn’t a GM trait.

Empathetic should totally be in the Master line. God knows why it isn’t.

Maybe anet thinks its too strong a passive to be just a master trait?

scerevisiae.1972:

• Traps are vectors for condition damage, having all their traits in the precision/crit dmg line makes no sense
• IMO should be 900 range when traited. 600 range might be fine for sPVP but it is a serious limitation for WVW.
• Would make a lot of sense if Entangle were a trap

actually it would be cool if spike trap could be reworked slightly to generate a smoke field. would be cool if rangers had more access to stealth.

Smoke field on spike trap would ROCK!, I’ve been trying to use mix of different builds in Solo Que but nothing is viable bar Spirit Ranger.

Worse part is there are so many Warriors and every single one has a Longbow so your Spirit’s are good as dead, once they immobilize you and stack some bleeds with 0 points invested into condition damage, but they have 20 might stacks just from simple rotations.

Sad, which ranges could stack 20 might with simple rotations.

Well, there are a lot of things wrong with trap rangers, I played trap just last night and the common theme for me is that traps do not offer any defensive mechanics. Sure rabid has the defense, but once you go rabid your HP pool is at 15-16k, it sucks! Since everyone in the last few months (since pax really) has been running cheese builds with super condi damage, it takes 1 sig of spite to drop our HP down to 30% in mere seconds. Of course to play a build that requires more skill, you have to know how to use evades quite well. Anyway, so my suggestive fix would be to have more useful traits for defensive mechanics.

For the fix, I would make it so
-Furios grip and tail wind are together adept 5.
-Then move sharpening edges to Master 15.

Trappers defense doesn’t do us rangers squat, so I would suggest making trappers defense have 2 sec blind pulse for traps. It needs to live up to its name… “Defense” or even a 3 1/2 secs of protection on a 10 sec CD everytime a trap is triggered. One of those would work. I would really like to see the blind though go trough. You get 1 pulse from spike, 3 from fire, and 3 from viper. About 16 seconds of blind. Which isn’t that big considering you can totally evade traps. (Black powder has 12 secs blind for comparison.) It could even be a 4 sec blind for activating the trap, pulsing with the damage would be better though.

As for Frost trap, make it line up with spike trap’s CD. Add a pulse damage to it. Maybe even add 1 sec daze when traited (might be too OP though).

problem with adjusting traps is the fact that they are unblockable and invisible. Until those 2 elements are changed I don’t think we can expect changes anytime soon. I also don’t think the fact that they are such makes up for their weaknesses Ie: easy to avoid once you know the rangers build, long cooldown, heavy trait investment and lack of defence as well as damage outside of the utilities.

Irene Jane.9605:

Well, there are a lot of things wrong with trap rangers, I played trap just last night and the common theme for me is that traps do not offer any defensive mechanics.

hence the smoke field on spike trap suggestion. smoke field blinds enemies standing in it, and a ranger with warhorn/sword/GS and/or a drake could stealth from it. both good defensive moves.

Oh, and traps should be 900 range so they’re reasonably usable in WVW. 600 range is a serious limitation in WVW, unless rangers were to get more access to stealth.

I like to compare the Trap Ranger to other Condition bomb builds, we really lack in that department.

Necros/Engineers out shine us in how much damage/condition damage they can throw out, there survival is even better, I really hope Anet takes look at the trap ranger build and maybe they will change it or just give us better Survival.

I want might stacking, there is trait where on Critical hit you stack 1 Might for 5 seconds on your pet, why doesn’t this work for both the ranger and pet also duration should be longer given other classes can get 20 second long might stacks rather easy.

1 interesting suggestion mentioned was to model traps after engineer kits. Personally I think this would work well; 1 kit=all traps, same cooldowns. Dont see why this would be any more op than eng/necro cond application and would allow for much needed survivability in the form of 2 free utility slots.

trapper ranger is just not viable atm.
every engi have the 3 trap effects in 1 utility.

and every other condi build outdmg trapper ranger so hard, so a team never need a trapper ranger if they can chose necromancer, engi, condi warriors or spirit ranger.

one reason why its so weak is that a trapper ranger need to waste 30 points in skirmishing for a condition build… sure you can play the build with bleeding on crit, but i think always the trapper ranger with carrion amulet was more viable.
so i think best change would be to bring the 2 important trapper traits into marksmanship adept and master tier.
have you ever tried the flame trap on a training golem without the trapper traits?
rly funny how its like zero dmg. better i take a torch instead of this trap and/or some spirits…

the trapper ranger need to waste 3 utility slots if he whant to play full trapper and then there is no lightning reflexes.

the engi need to waste 1 utility slots for the same dmg, gg
and he have 2 slots free + f1-f4 because we ranger players are to stupid to use more skills then engi players atm.

every one who says trapper ranger is viable in any game mode is so wrong…
this builds is to weak actually.

second reason is, there need to be some extra effects on traps.
maybe combo fields, more dmg, i dont know…
or finaly more pet skills controll.

atm trapper ranger is only fun to play not more.
trapper ranger is not viable
dps ranger will be never viable
and bm ranger is also not viable atm

thats the reason why only spirit rangers run around

I think they should just give us a staff weapon and have 2-5 be traps, and 1 be “launch you foe with your walking stick”

contrary to popular belief trap ranger has always been a viable build, if you knew how to adapt.

Battosai.5620:

contrary to popular belief trap ranger has always been a viable build, if you knew how to adapt.

Find that hard to believe here is a list of current meta builds that counter Trap Ranger when in a good players hands,

• Warriors – S/S-LB.
• Warrior – H-LB.
• Warrior – A/S-LB.
• Enginer -any build running AR.
• Necro – Spite/Corrupt combo.
• Thief’s – Decent thief running SB and lyssa will counter a Trap Ranger.

Now lets take look at the current meta, almost all them builds are extremely common in both SPvP and TPvP…..

You sometimes beat one of them builds due to skills being on CD or they didn’t take the right trait. Normally something stupid.

I think that the traps suffer similarly to most of the ranger’s utility options the require larger point investments to approach what should have been ‘out of the box’ functionality.