Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

I hope you are all enjoying the new patch, experimenting with new builds, and finding a whole slew of ridiculous specs floating around. It certainly is fun. However, with even a little bit of testing, it is clear that there are some outlier runes and sigils that are clearly too strong, and it is making many specs OP and destroys variability. I will outline some of the biggest offenders that should be fixed ASAP.

1. Balthazar Runes
As OE and others have pointed out, these runes are unreasonably strong. They give great condi damage, and when combined with Incendiary Powder, make 7s burns on a 10s proc just rediculous. These burns single-handedly win a fight, and don’t really require any sacrifice. These are a big reason why condi engies are tearing everyone up right now.

Proposal: +25% burning duration, +power instead of condi (or 50/50 split)

2. Strength Runes
On the opposite end of the spectrum, these runes are just rediculous for power specs. After the #6 effect was fixed a few months ago, these were already really strong and competed with Ogre for best power rune. Then, these were buffed sky-high (much longer might duration, +2% more damage while mighted on the #6 piece) so that its now just silly. Almost every power spec is using these now, especially because they can all take Battle sigils too.

Proposal: +3% damage while you have might, no additional might on-struck from the 4-piece. And/Or see Battle below

3 Energy sigils
These were one of the best sigils before, and they are even stronger now that they don’t stop you from taking another dps sigil. Giving more free dodges to many builds just allows them to remove more risk from their specs. Perhaps part of the issue is how well ele and engie can use them, but they are still strong regardless.

Proposal: +30% endurance on swap.

4. Battle sigils
Like energy, these competed previously as one of the best sigils. Then, strength runes were buffed and double-sigils could be taken and it was no longer a contest. These are too reliable, and give too much benefit with strength. On my ele build, these give 9-12 stacks of might all times (315-420 power AND condi damage). That makes these straight-up better than bloodlust and corruption combined (which give a max 250 power/condi damage stacked up). There is no reason to not take these if you are ele/engie, which both do excellent combined damage.

Proposal: 2 stacks of might on-swap.

Honorable mentions
Nightmare runes – 1s instant fear was already strong, why make it 2s?

Please give any further suggestions/feedback below. I know a lot of things are out of control, but these are things I can clearly see are just ridiculous currently (and 3 of them I use on my main spec).

agree with the sigils.

i really want to try out different ones but energy is just so good.

Honorable mentions
Nightmare runes – 1s instant fear was already strong, why make it 2s?

Please give any further suggestions/feedback below. I know a lot of things are out of control, but these are things I can clearly see are just ridiculous currently (and 3 of them I use on my main spec).

compared to some of the other #6-boni, i dont think so. if 2 seconds is too much, then 90sec cooldown is too high aswell.

And why exactly do you want to nerf them?
They’re strong, that’s true. But why nerf?
To nerf something, it would have to be deemed way too powerful and see EVERYONE using the same thing. (Hint: previous lyssa runes).
Or you could state how perplexity runes are too powerful when they can be combined with stuns.

But stuff like 2 seconds fear every minute and a half? Or burning duration? Or endurance regeneration on swap because now a second sigil can be equipped now?
It doesn’t seem justified to me at all.

It seems almost surreal how terrible this game has become since the feature patch. I think they relied on the new wardrobe and dye feature to quell the impending kitty storm that the new condition meta will bring.

The problem is that condi was king BEFORE the patch. Now it is just over the top.

Pleurodesed.7625:

And why exactly do you want to nerf them?
They’re strong, that’s true. But why nerf?
To nerf something, it would have to be deemed way too powerful and see EVERYONE using the same thing. (Hint: previous lyssa runes).

Every power build IS running these. It also makes some builds just too strong. Building celestial or valkyries and being able to maintain 25 stacks of might while have tons of sustain is CRAZY strong, probably OP.

But stuff like 2 seconds fear every minute and a half? Or burning duration? Or endurance regeneration on swap because now a second sigil can be equipped now?
It doesn’t seem justified to me at all.

The fear IS a problem on a terrormancer, that can just 1-shot you if your stunbreak is on CD, b/c 2s is MUCH easier to chain into than 1s, which just peeled them off of you.

Endurance regen is a problem b/c it makes dodging even more prevalent on builds that have far too much dps.

BlackBeard.2873:

Proposal: +25% burning duration, +power instead of condi (or 50/50 split)

2. Strength Runes
On the opposite end of the spectrum, these runes are just rediculous for power specs. After the #6 effect was fixed a few months ago, these were already really strong and competed with Ogre for best power rune. Then, these were buffed sky-high (much longer might duration, +2% more damage while mighted on the #6 piece) so that its now just silly. Almost every power spec is using these now, especially because they can all take Battle sigils too.

Proposal: +3% damage while you have might, no additional might on-struck from the 4-piece. And/Or see Battle below
4. Battle sigils
Like energy, these competed previously as one of the best sigils. Then, strength runes were buffed and double-sigils could be taken and it was no longer a contest. These are too reliable, and give too much benefit with strength. On my ele build, these give 9-12 stacks of might all times (315-420 power AND condi damage). That makes these straight-up better than bloodlust and corruption combined (which give a max 250 power/condi damage stacked up). There is no reason to not take these if you are ele/engie, which both do excellent combined damage.

Proposal: 2 stacks of might on-swap.

First Rune of strength is suppose to give that much might. The additional 20% might duration is the unique feature of the rune The 7% damage is not the unique feature of the rune as 2 other runes have that damage bonus.

Sigil of battle is fine is it stronger with strength runes? Sure but so is a sigil of accuracy with more crit damage. They have synergy which is why people take them.

Sigil of battle is good on your ele sure but someone with not many damaging conditions? Then the condi damage doesn’t matter its like you want it nerfed because it’s better on your ele then it would be on a D/D thief. It always was better on a ele then a d/d thief because you have burning. Since you can’t have corruption and bloodlust together why even bring that up?

Looks like biased feedback because these are mostly things that would be strong on a elementalist. The balthazaar runes I have no comment since I havent used them.

The energy and battle isn’t new its just that its new that you can use them together which we all knew was coming for a while now. I don’t understand the surprise here why not make a post when the sigil changes where announced.

If you nerf battle people will take sigil of strength instead then you will come to forums and say sigil of strength is to strong and ask for them to nerf that too. See where this is going? Really sigil of strength will get you more then battle if you have reasonable crit chance especially front loaded might.

Guess boon duration nerf wasn’t enough for these guys…
Just wow…

Agree with all of them. The runes are just stupidly stronger than before and totaly better than anything else.

Sigils also, why werent energy &co. rebalnced?

oZii.2864:

First Rune of strength is suppose to give that much might. The additional 20% might duration is the unique feature of the rune The 7% damage is not the unique feature of the rune as 2 other runes have that damage bonus.

Strength gives way more Might than it used to (it was 20% I think), but some people would take 2/2/2 rune-sets to get 60% might duration on certain builds. This required sacrificing the great bonuses on the 3-6 of runesets. The changes gives you the best of both worlds. I think something like 30% might be more reasonable, and the 7% should be reduced for sure. Then it just becomes a question of how strong does this added damage have to be that people don’t just run hoelbrak.

Sigil of battle is fine is it stronger with strength runes? Sure but so is a sigil of accuracy with more crit damage. They have synergy which is why people take them.

Sigil of battle is good on your ele sure but someone with not many damaging conditions? Then the condi damage doesn’t matter its like you want it nerfed because it’s better on your ele then it would be on a D/D thief. It always was better on a ele then a d/d thief because you have burning. Since you can’t have corruption and bloodlust together why even bring that up?

The dps you gain from battle, with any sort of boon duration is enormous. 9 stacks of might is 315 power and condi damage, which is giving you more benefit than both bloodlust and corruption combined. Why would I bother taking either of those then?

Looks like biased feedback because these are mostly things that would be strong on a elementalist. The balthazaar runes I have no comment since I havent used them.

Since I main ele, I would want to keep things that are great for ele if anything. I just realize its a little too much, honestly.

The energy and battle isn’t new its just that its new that you can use them together which we all knew was coming for a while now. I don’t understand the surprise here why not make a post when the sigil changes where announced.

They said sigils would be rebalanced, and I was very hopeful they would tone down some of the strongest ones. That didn’t happen, and it has played out (power creep) just as I had feared.

If you nerf battle people will take sigil of strength instead then you will come to forums and say sigil of strength is to strong and ask for them to nerf that too. See where this is going? Really sigil of strength will get you more then battle if you have reasonable crit chance especially front loaded might.

Sure, if strength is too good, then nerf that. Allowing multiple “proc” sigils was insane power-creep. To counter-act that, let’s bring some of these things back in-line.

Also, there are sacrifices that have to be made to utilize strength well – you need good precision. Battle requires no such sacrifices.

I bring these things up, because vs. many builds, quite a few fights on celestial/strength rune/battle sigil ele become too faceroll. I don’t want to be the new hambow. I want more balance because its good for the game!

Nobody knows what the new hambow is and what the new counter hambow is.

Nothing is settled yet.

Honest question to ask is with your seemingly OP build do you think you would fit in the last meta? Do you think with your build that you can see ele getting used over another class do these things vault you to number 1 for a spot?

So with these changes did ele go from not in the meta to in the meta and has a firm foot in the door?

I mean everyone is testing things out right now. I could see if this thread was based on feedback using these items on a class that was s-tier already. That would be the balthazaar and engineer which I have no comment because I havent tried those runes on my engi.

I completely agree about Balth, Nightmare runes and Energy Sigils. I’m a little bit on the fence about the rest. If it were me, the reduction of burning would be as you suggested with Balth. Put fear duration back to 1s on Nightmare and reduce Energy sigils to 25% per swap.

Necros kinda need the energy sigils since we can’t get access to vigor, blocks, invuls etc…. would not be happy to see them nerfed.

Sure for classes that can evade spam they are a problem…..

Normally i’d agree but with your massive health pool(Easily around 30k when combined with ds), it starts to become bothersome.

oZii.2864:

I mean everyone is testing things out right now. I could see if this thread was based on feedback using these items on a class that was s-tier already. That would be the balthazaar and engineer which I have no comment because I havent tried those runes on my engi.

This is true, things aren’t settled. Balthazar has proven disastrous with IP on engies b/c 7s guaranteed burns every 10s without really sacrificing is crazy good.

I am just saying that ogre was previously best-in-class dps rune, and pre-buff strength was competitive after being fixed (making the 6 pt work). Then just made strength + battle way too good, such that it can increase your dps way more than ogre+any rune could previously. This is absolute power-creep, and its bad for the game. Having 1 person be able to stack themselves up to or near 25 might takes away a lot of team-aspects and is also lost potential.

I am only targeting these runes right now because they seem so much stronger than everything else that it:
1. Hurts diversity
2. Is the worst offender of the power-creep.

And trust me, I don’t think I’m some special flower with a super-secret ele build. I can just tell when something is OP. Just like it didn’t take much for experienced players to know that dhuumfire was unreasonable on necros.

BlackBeard.2873:

oZii.2864:

I mean everyone is testing things out right now. I could see if this thread was based on feedback using these items on a class that was s-tier already. That would be the balthazaar and engineer which I have no comment because I havent tried those runes on my engi.

This is true, things aren’t settled. Balthazar has proven disastrous with IP on engies b/c 7s guaranteed burns every 10s without really sacrificing is crazy good.

I am just saying that ogre was previously best-in-class dps rune, and pre-buff strength was competitive after being fixed (making the 6 pt work). Then just made strength + battle way too good, such that it can increase your dps way more than ogre+any rune could previously. This is absolute power-creep, and its bad for the game. Having 1 person be able to stack themselves up to or near 25 might takes away a lot of team-aspects and is also lost potential.

I am only targeting these runes right now because they seem so much stronger than everything else that it:
1. Hurts diversity
2. Is the worst offender of the power-creep.

And trust me, I don’t think I’m some special flower with a super-secret ele build. I can just tell when something is OP. Just like it didn’t take much for experienced players to know that dhuumfire was unreasonable on necros.

These are some fair points but you have to remember something, you can stack 25 stacks of might and a thief can come steal it. If a thief steals 25 stacks of might you might aswell get ready to respawn. You can stack 25 stacks of might and a necro can corrupt it. There is counter play here the thing about ogre is you can’t remove that damage. Might stacks can be removed.

You run around stacking some might the other team brings a necro to counter and corrupt with the new dark path trait, a focus to remove, and/or corrupt boon. There goes your damage counter played. It isn’t like your might is permanent as long as there is a thief, and necro, a mesmer with arcane thievery around your might is in danger of being stripped. Really if anyone steals your 25 stacks of might you basically lost that fight.

So what I see is Celestial Ele like yourself goes into a match, other team has a good thief with 30 in trickery. Thief lets you stack might once he knows strength runes are meta he knows to look for the stacks of might you just lost the fight. Not everyone knows for sure it is meta but if it does you can get hard countered easily against good players who let you stack it and send the thief to steal it.

True, these things can be corrupt boon-ed, but having them stolen is really rare, as might is LAST in priority from steal. I am not sure about larc. strike or arcane thievery. Also, could not find data about nullification sigils.

We will see what happens when the meta shakes out more, but my initial reactions are that these things are too strong and possible to abuse in the right builds.

OK this is about PvP and i don t usually talk about PvP.

Just mind this:

In WWW they nerfed almost any power specs…
Sigils and runes are compensating for the loss making Power builds slightly viable in a sea of condibunker and soldier trains.

In the process they even buffed conditions since they had no nerfs.

Nerfing power runes will do more damage to more players than they do now so if that happens should be limited to PvP.

WWW and PvE suffered enough in name of PvP balance.

TL:DR your suggestions push DD ele outside WWW and probably PvP.
Its a case you listed all runes and sigils ele needs to stay in meta?