Guild Wars 2

Sigmoid.7082:

Until something is done about conditions i see nothing wrong with the rune at all. Besides people have to sack their sigils and runes in order to put out as much power damage as possible. Loss of a lot of potential due to 100% commitment.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with conditions.

I think these runes are strong, but as was mentioned, we have just now hit the two week mark. We probably wait a little while and see what else develops.

Paavotar.3971:

Every class can spec to condition if they want, others have better synergy than others but the same thing goes with power builds as well. Also, every class has skills or means to interrupt a foe so confusion on interrupt would be doable on every class in that sense as well.

And no, I didn’t start playing this game yesterday, I have been playing quite long already. Also, I main Warrior so in sense I should be super happy for the runes but I can still see the OP’ness of the set.

The rune set gives too easy access to +7% damage increase which is huge add.

If something is available to everyone it doesn’t make it balanced.

So which is it you have a problem with the extra 15% might duration over other runes or the 7% damage bonus? You know it use to give 5% so your telling me that +2% damage buff when every power build received a crit damage nerf is huge? You aren’t playing with your old levels of damage even in s/tPvP. The 2% extra damage buff it received probably doesn’t make up for the crit damage you use to have. The might stacks let you get that damage back but it takes build up you don’t have it at the start. Front loaded vs backloaded and removable damage vs your old permanent damage levels.

Actually if there is one thing that i dont like about the rune is the (6) bonus.

7% more damage when having a boon on your self is much easier to get then a 7% damage buff only if the enemy has a certain condition. But that is not a problem of the runeset itself but a fault in the general system…

The runes are fine.

It’s like all the other threads when other runesets came out.

I like how most arguments go along the lines of " I think this is too much " or " they are just too good" or " 7% is too high".

To those arguments I’ll counter with " I think they’re just fine and dandy".

Ah, Byron, so nice of you to join us. It has been a while since I’ve read any wristing about Crit Damage nerfs, so this is nice to read. Nostalgia and all that.

Have you used much Celestial gear lately, out of curiosity?

On topic
Yeah, the +%modifiers might be an issue on a global level. Or rather, they detract. I mean I get it, given the sheer variety of runes some need a purely passive effect. But I wonder whether something as “simple” as 7% more damage under common condition X is really that good a limitation. 50% more damage against enemies not currently touching the ground, that’d be more interesting.

Less of a balance issue though, more of a “missed opportunity”.

The balance changes already directly proven you wrong twice.
You clearly have something against power builds in general as it can be deduced from your posts.

So adding astract views like “missed opportunity” and passive effect are wrong.

A 7% increase under the effect of might doesn t do dps alone.
It needs you to land skills thus can t be passive.

Passive is armor, thoughness and HP…and also some conditions.

It even has the might when hit, that is more efficient on defensive builds since offensive can t fight for long when hit.

Although a lot of the runesets have changed, still more than half of the runesets nobody would use.

BobbyT.7192:

Oidmetala.8426:

this rune is for sure to strong atm

nearly every power profession run it.
and it makes nearly all power professions much stronger then they should be at the moment.

warriors run strengh runes
mesmers run strengh runes
eles run strengh runes
some thiefs run strengh runes

this 4 professions run around with ~20 perma might and just kill everything

so there is of course no condi meta atm
we have a power meta

Weren’t people complaining about the condi meta, and wanting a power meta?

I think the problem is that everyone uses this if they want damage. Other rune sets just do not compete, and with the change to critical damage ferocity runes provide far to little. The whole point of the rune/sigil rework was to open up options, all I saw was a bunch of options nerfed, a small few buffed, and atleast 3/4 of them still being garbage.

And the fact remains that 3/4 of them will always be garbage.
Because there’s always going to be a few rune sets that are far more useful or versatile and you won’t really want/need any other types.

Carighan.6758:

50% more damage against enemies not currently touching the ground, that’d be more interesting.

Less of a balance issue though, more of a “missed opportunity”.

This is the issue right here- he considered this sort of rune a “missed opportunity” – honestly it isn’t. These sorts of runes aren’t useful – and even if they were there’s always going to be something better and more versatile.

TL DR – no matter how you make runes work there’ll always be a set that’s better to have than others for something specific.

oZii.2864:

So which is it you have a problem with the extra 15% might duration over other runes or the 7% damage bonus? You know it use to give 5% so your telling me that +2% damage buff when every power build received a crit damage nerf is huge? You aren’t playing with your old levels of damage even in s/tPvP. The 2% extra damage buff it received probably doesn’t make up for the crit damage you use to have. The might stacks let you get that damage back but it takes build up you don’t have it at the start. Front loaded vs backloaded and removable damage vs your old permanent damage levels.

The problem with the rune set in my mind is that it increases might duration by a huge 45% which makes might stacking really easy without much additional boon duration. 30% would be better here.

I have also a bit of problem with the hit proc that you get 10s (actually 14,5s with runes own duration add) pretty much every 5s. Thats one low CD right there, compare it to the Rune of Rage which has the same proc expect its 15s of fury with 30s CD. Maybe increase the CD into 15s or atleast 10s so you have a bit harder time to keep the sixth bonus up with only the runes or if someone strips your boons.

Then the 7% damage increase. I suppose it could stay as is, the 2% reduction I was thinking wouldn’t change that much, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it a bit lower.

All in all, I think it gives a tad too much.

the most runes are garbage cause they mixed to many good stuff in singles runes.. they havent create a choice. thats the only problem. rune of strength is a good candidate to split the function into 2 different sets.

to the ppl who thinks rune of strength is a “weapon” against condi-builds. no its not. might is at least equal powerfull on both types.

runes of rage as example is garbage, cause if u really would need that rune to get fury u are prop. a zerker player with less fury source and cant get afford to get hit just to get fury.

Paavotar.3971:

The problem with the rune set in my mind is that it increases might duration by a huge 45% which makes might stacking really easy without much additional boon duration. 30% would be better here.

I have also a bit of problem with the hit proc that you get 10s (actually 14,5s with runes own duration add) pretty much every 5s. Thats one low CD right there, compare it to the Rune of Rage which has the same proc expect its 15s of fury with 30s CD. Maybe increase the CD into 15s or atleast 10s so you have a bit harder time to keep the sixth bonus up with only the runes or if someone strips your boons.

Then the 7% damage increase. I suppose it could stay as is, the 2% reduction I was thinking wouldn’t change that much, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it a bit lower.

All in all, I think it gives a tad too much.

These are fair points but the problem is Fury v Might. Fury is 420 precision which is 12 stacks of might if you compared them straight up to get 420 extra Power.

The potency depends on your build, modifiers critical damage, crit chance as to which you benefit more from. It’s obvious Strength is better then Rage because it has Power BUT if Rage was Power/Fury like Rune of the Citadel is and still had it’s 5% damage modifier the while under Fury it would be much stronger. Citadel has a terrible 6 piece so that is what hurts it other wise it would be better then Rage. If Rune of Citadel didn’t have a bomb for 6/6 then People would probably complain about both. Really who wants to summon a bomb for their 6/6?

My issue is creativity with the Runes like citadel the 6/6 should have been changed to something better or just take rages 6/6. Instead they kept it as a bomb. Rages only problem is that it doesn’t have power Citadel runes problem is that it has power but a bomb for 6/6. Everyone knows power>crit chance>critical damage generally this isn’t new. DPS choices are Strength and Pack in PvP because they provide the best damage you can get reliably. Easy to see just glossing over the runes and didn’t take long.

Since it is the best DPS rune for power builds does that really make it bad or need to be nerfed? Not really imo, all that will happen is the lines are a little closer between it and say Pack or some other Rune and then you maybe have 2-3 best runes for pvp dps builds? Didn’t really impact much people will just run around with Perma fury with Pack with maybe Ele’s using Strength still. In PvP Pack would then probably let you kill much faster a full team running pack will have permanent fury and maybe let players drop the popular fury traits they all run for something else like another flat damage bonus or more defensive traits.

I hoped the patch would encourage variety, but it seems Strength are nothing more than the new Lyssa.

10 sec on a 5 sec cooldown. Isn’t it unique that a rune has 100% uptime on one of its effects? Should be 5 sec on a 10 sec cooldown. Might’ve been always intended to be that way.

Paavotar.3971:

oZii.2864:

So which is it you have a problem with the extra 15% might duration over other runes or the 7% damage bonus? You know it use to give 5% so your telling me that +2% damage buff when every power build received a crit damage nerf is huge? You aren’t playing with your old levels of damage even in s/tPvP. The 2% extra damage buff it received probably doesn’t make up for the crit damage you use to have. The might stacks let you get that damage back but it takes build up you don’t have it at the start. Front loaded vs backloaded and removable damage vs your old permanent damage levels.

The problem with the rune set in my mind is that it increases might duration by a huge 45% which makes might stacking really easy without much additional boon duration. 30% would be better here.

I have also a bit of problem with the hit proc that you get 10s (actually 14,5s with runes own duration add) pretty much every 5s. Thats one low CD right there, compare it to the Rune of Rage which has the same proc expect its 15s of fury with 30s CD. Maybe increase the CD into 15s or atleast 10s so you have a bit harder time to keep the sixth bonus up with only the runes or if someone strips your boons.

Then the 7% damage increase. I suppose it could stay as is, the 2% reduction I was thinking wouldn’t change that much, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it a bit lower.

All in all, I think it gives a tad too much.

And you can see other runes do the same with chilling, fire, defense, and much more.

Simply the ferocity nerf push people into a search for the lost DPS and this was theeasier answer.

For example i don t get all people getting these runes and then using lemongrass in WWW….

LordByron.8369:

And you can see other runes do the same with chilling, fire, defense, and much more.

Simply the ferocity nerf push people into a search for the lost DPS and this was theeasier answer.

For example i don t get all people getting these runes and then using lemongrass in WWW….

The problem is that the runes offer you pretty much 100% uptime on that 7% extra damage while the ones with chill, fire etc are way harder to keep up because those conditions are harder to apply than might AND they are conditions so they are easier to cleanse denying the extra damage. Also they are conditions which doesn’t synergy as well with extra direct damage than might which is one of the most common and easiest to apply boons in the game.

Also the fact that the rune set itself offers 10s (without duration add) might on hit with 5s cooldown means that you will more than likely maintain the extra 7% through the runes itself already without the need of any synergy from your build or your teammates.

I think I start to lean towards the fact that the proc on hit is the thing that makes the rune set a bit too strong. Without it professions that could stip boons could actually have atleast some way to control the +7% dmg on the enemy.

You can also get 100% burning uptime.
And you can get many other buffs.

These (and other) runes helps power builds.
Power builds got a 20-30% DPS (not crit chance) nerf without runes and sigils.

This means that those runes helps power builds to recover some dps.
But they also helps by far more both tanky and condition builds in term of dps reducing the difference between, glass cannons and the Others.

While its quite good for tank and balanced builds its only an issue on condition builds.

Don t look at runes alone.
Look at the Whole patch

90% runes/sigils if put in prepatch game would be brokenly OP.
But they nerfed something to buff something other.

Paavotar.3971:

LordByron.8369:

And you can see other runes do the same with chilling, fire, defense, and much more.

Simply the ferocity nerf push people into a search for the lost DPS and this was theeasier answer.

For example i don t get all people getting these runes and then using lemongrass in WWW….

The problem is that the runes offer you pretty much 100% uptime on that 7% extra damage while the ones with chill, fire etc are way harder to keep up because those conditions are harder to apply than might AND they are conditions so they are easier to cleanse denying the extra damage. Also they are conditions which doesn’t synergy as well with extra direct damage than might which is one of the most common and easiest to apply boons in the game.

Also the fact that the rune set itself offers 10s (without duration add) might on hit with 5s cooldown means that you will more than likely maintain the extra 7% through the runes itself already without the need of any synergy from your build or your teammates.

I think I start to lean towards the fact that the proc on hit is the thing that makes the rune set a bit too strong. Without it professions that could stip boons could actually have atleast some way to control the +7% dmg on the enemy.

Ranger Runes! So is it unfair that Rangers get +7% damage pretty much all the time? Apparently they also work for Mesmers so they would get that too. So now you need AI to use those Runes. Burn isn’t hard for a power engineer, chill would be easy on a power necro. Might is just more common as in many classes can usually get might in some form or from teammates.

oZii.2864:

Paavotar.3971:

LordByron.8369:

And you can see other runes do the same with chilling, fire, defense, and much more.

Simply the ferocity nerf push people into a search for the lost DPS and this was theeasier answer.

For example i don t get all people getting these runes and then using lemongrass in WWW….

The problem is that the runes offer you pretty much 100% uptime on that 7% extra damage while the ones with chill, fire etc are way harder to keep up because those conditions are harder to apply than might AND they are conditions so they are easier to cleanse denying the extra damage. Also they are conditions which doesn’t synergy as well with extra direct damage than might which is one of the most common and easiest to apply boons in the game.

Also the fact that the rune set itself offers 10s (without duration add) might on hit with 5s cooldown means that you will more than likely maintain the extra 7% through the runes itself already without the need of any synergy from your build or your teammates.

I think I start to lean towards the fact that the proc on hit is the thing that makes the rune set a bit too strong. Without it professions that could stip boons could actually have atleast some way to control the +7% dmg on the enemy.

Ranger Runes! So is it unfair that Rangers get +7% damage pretty much all the time? Apparently they also work for Mesmers so they would get that too. So now you need AI to use those Runes. Burn isn’t hard for a power engineer, chill would be easy on a power necro. Might is just more common as in many classes can usually get might in some form or from teammates.

In my opinion the ranger rune should give the companion the damage boost, not the ranger / rune wielder itself. And what comes to the burning / chilling ones is that you have to land the condition on your enemy to get the damage bonus and after that the enemy can cleanse it and condition cleanses are a lot more common than boon stripping. Also power engi and chillomancers can’t keep up burning or chill through their runes only.

You can counter might stacking by interrupting the might giving ability (some instant so doesnt work) or stripping them. And even if you happen to land interrupt on their skill you still might accidently trigger the on hit proc. You see the point now? It’s too easy to maintain the extra 7% damage without sacrificing anything or even working for it while the ones you offered had to work for it in some way.

Wrong answer try again and play moore!

Ozii do really mesmer runes works for mesmer?
In the wiki it says the opposite.

@paavotar:
What about melandru runes?
What about hoelbrack?
No counterplay.
What about Water runes?

90% runes have passive bonuses why only power runes are OP now?

LordByron.8369:

Ozii do really mesmer runes works for mesmer?
In the wiki it says the opposite.

@paavotar:
What about melandru runes?
What about hoelbrack?
No counterplay.
What about Water runes?

90% runes have passive bonuses why only power runes are OP now?

It’s not the +% might duration that is too big of a deal (could be toned down a bit anyways). But the fact that #4 and #6 work too well together ensuring the wielder to keep having that 7% dmg increase no matter what.

Melandru runes: You can counter the -condi with +condi, same thing for the stun.

Hoelbrack: Gives 30% might duration and -20 condi, I actually use these and they are more balanced out because I don’t get +7% dmg whit it. Same counter as Melandru, +condi.

Water runes: ? +20% boon duration and on hit proc that has long CD and heal proc that is cool for few. It’s all cool.

Also to compare Runes of Strength with the other conditional +%dmg runes is that this increases the damage to everyone around you, not only the target you are consentrating on. Those runes are dependant on what is happening on the enemy and not what is happening on you.

LordByron.8369:

Ozii do really mesmer runes works for mesmer?
In the wiki it says the opposite.

@paavotar:
What about melandru runes?
What about hoelbrack?
No counterplay.
What about Water runes?

90% runes have passive bonuses why only power runes are OP now?

I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.

oZii.2864:

LordByron.8369:

Ozii do really mesmer runes works for mesmer?
In the wiki it says the opposite.

@paavotar:
What about melandru runes?
What about hoelbrack?
No counterplay.
What about Water runes?

90% runes have passive bonuses why only power runes are OP now?

I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.

To be honest, could be interesting if the runes of the ranger did also work with Mesmer and Necros and the #6 bonus would give +10% damage to the companions. Would make the runes a bit more interesting

Paavotar.3971

Melandru runes: You can counter the -condi with +condi, same thing for the stun.

You don t even try….
You can counter 7% damage with more HP or thoughness.

LordByron.8369:

Paavotar.3971

Melandru runes: You can counter the -condi with +condi, same thing for the stun.

You don t even try….
You can counter 7% damage with more HP or thoughness.

You can also counter the 7% damage with dodges, active play, disabling enemy, avoiding damage or logging off. You didn’t try hard enough.

oZii.2864:

I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.

Runes of the ranger gives you +7% dmg increase while having a minipet.

haviz.1340:

oZii.2864:

I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.

Runes of the ranger gives you +7% dmg increase while having a minipet.

Oooo so vague and mysterious!. Apparently it’s more with a mistfire wolf since I said apparently I’m stating this as fact obviously.

haviz.1340:

oZii.2864:

I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.

Runes of the ranger gives you +7% dmg increase while having a minipet.

Oh well they are useless then since it would obviously be a bug.

Let me give you an example Op:

Jakie always had the need of speed, of driving fast cars. So one day she finally decided to buy one: instead of borrowing from friends. As she was shopping in the car dealership, she noticed a devil beauty: the Venom GT: the world fastest car ever to be built with 270mph.. Her heartbeat accelerated of the excitement, so she wasted no time to buy it and drove it out of the car dealership.

She unleashed her devil beauty as she hit the highway: 50 mph, 80mph, 100mph, 150 mph, 200 mph, 250 mph, finally 270 mph…..than there was complete silence.

“Ma’am, Ma’am…….Ma’am are wake up”, said the paramedic.

Jakie never regain conscience.

Who is to Blame?

Jakie or The Venom GT?

Who is to Blame?

The Class or The Rune?

Who is to Blame?

The abuser or the victim?

Who is to Blame?

Only You

The Abuser

Wich class? the one that needs the rune of strength to outdamage the healing signet or the Warriors posting how bad a 7% damage increase is?
:)

Op is a think that only a class can abuse macking the game unbalanced, runes of strenght aren’t OP all calss can use !

END OF THE STORY!

Time ago ranger gave simply a flat 7% if i remember that (due to a bug).

oZii.2864:

Oooo so vague and mysterious!. Apparently it’s more with a mistfire wolf since I said apparently I’m stating this as fact obviously.

Are you always responding like that? No, I was not joking, just stating that 6th bonus works always in pve.

haviz.1340:

oZii.2864:

Oooo so vague and mysterious!. Apparently it’s more with a mistfire wolf since I said apparently I’m stating this as fact obviously.

Are you always responding like that? No, I was not joking, just stating that 6th bonus works always in pve.

They wrote they fxed it some Patches ago…
Did the mess up again?

It was a mental leap. They fixed the old behaviour but those runes work when you have a minipet and getting one is trivial. Thus, it works always in pve since you cannot use minipets in pvp.

Paavotar.3971:

You can also counter the 7% damage with dodges, active play, disabling enemy, avoiding damage or logging off. You didn’t try hard enough.

Maybe replace “logging off” with “Weakness.” Quitting should never be a serious response when considering counter-play. If not serious, then my apologies.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Paavotar.3971:

You can also counter the 7% damage with dodges, active play, disabling enemy, avoiding damage or logging off. You didn’t try hard enough.

Maybe replace “logging off” with “Weakness.” Quitting should never be a serious response when considering counter-play. If not serious, then my apologies.

It was not serious one, he was pretty much listing two things which the other one pretty much counters every possible damage source and the other every possible direct damage source.

simonerd.8672:

Op is a think that only a class can abuse macking the game unbalanced, runes of strenght aren’t OP all calss can use !

END OF THE STORY!

why not introduce atombombs every class can use.. im sure it will be funny to have 1-shot mechanic all over the place. and dont complain, cause its clearly balanced if every class CAN use it.

I honestly thought the OP’s suggestion was reasonable overall IF a problem really exists. I’m still on the fence. I would argue that if you’re going to change the boon duration on the strength runes you should change them on all the other ones as well though (citadel, fire, pirate (lol), etc.).

I’d sooner just do what the another poster said and simply put a larger cooldown on the #4 bonus so it wasn’t so spammy and go from there.

Idm the set, but I already started looking for other less known rune sets. Just in case that rune gets nerfed I have a back up plan

I’d rather have more viable runes than this getting nerfed. Most of the runes are just so underwhelming they might as well not exist. There should be more variety.

simonerd.8672:

Op is a think that only a class can abuse macking the game unbalanced, runes of strenght aren’t OP all calss can use !

END OF THE STORY!

So if there are runes that gives you 1000 to all stats you say its balanced?? because yeah every class can run them…

It doesn’t make them balanced if every class can use/run them.
It makes the rune unbalanced because the other runes are far behind these runes, that’s why its unbalanced.

And yes I agree they are way to good now.
They overbuffed its might duration
They buffed its +% damage from 5% to 7%
AND the buffed it so you will ALWAYS get the +% damage because of rune #4..

Kamikazi.5380:

Strength runes are great against the condi bunker meta right now.

You want to see them gone, then the condi bunker petting zoo mess needs to go too. It seems these forums are divided into two people, people who play power builds, and people who play condi builds. Each trying to defend their build from nerf.

atm, ranger pvp meta is split between railgun power LB and condi bunker…

ok so if we remove spirit ranger, nerf it to the ground. what happens then?
Well people go back to BM, or even WORSE. they roll trapper. What is wrong with trapper? Well, unless you fought a trapper before, you wouldnt know. But having unblockable low CD AOE condition bombs that deal decent crit damage (round 4-700 pr pulse) in addition to OP conditions and a trait that adds 100% condi duration for condies dealt by traps… yeah, how could that possibly be worse then the AI clutter of today right?

For PvP

Lets do a quick comparison.

Rune of Hoelbrak vs Rune of Strength

• Sigil of battle: 20 second of might base

• Battle w/ Hoelbrak = 26 seconds
• Battle w/ Strength = 29 seconds

Blast finisher is the same as above

4th Piece for Hoelbrak vs Strength

• Hoelbrak= 13 seconds of might when you get struck
• Strength= 14.5 seconds of might when struck

OMG Strength gives so much more might we should nerf that down to +5% might durations! Inb4 the old durations where fine. Seriously though the difference is tiny.

Do I need -20% condition duration? Depends on class and build not everyone needs that 6/6.

Rune of Hoelbrak would still give you -20% condition duration comparable might stacks, throw on a sigil of battle + sigil of force and there you go very close to Rune of Strength. Hoelbrak is better in PvP if you sacrifice a sigil slot for sigil of force your dps difference to a Strength user is small. You could do the same thing with strength and go sigil of force but you can’t get the -20% condition duration. This is where the sacrifice comes into play.

We should prepare a rune of hoelbrak nerf thread? Also get a nerf sigil of force thread ready too.

If you nerf rune of strengths 7% damage modifier then hoelbrak becomes the winner especially in PvP. Hoelbrak stacks comparable might to strength, you have to give up a sigil for force to stay close to strength damage. Nothing has changed because power is still the most important stat to damage.