Guild Wars 2

amonatory wins vs every medi guard /thread

Zaix.2480:

So what’s the hardcounter to dps guard?

dd ele, condi ranger, condi engi (cele engi too really), well played s/d acro

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

Having Bountiful Theft prioritize stability and aegis enables Thieves to steal with no regard to tactical thinking, and invalidates the whole purpose of those two boons.

I could understand an unblockable attack in the sword auto chain, since the sword is more about sustain and control. But dagger is about burst damage, and is designed around capitalizing on Backstab. The 4s of poison currently on the third chain skill makes more sense for that purpose, since poison neuters healing and leaves targets vulnerable.

Why should anything go through invulnerability? The few skills that provide invuln have short durations, long cooldowns, and leave the user unable to capture points in a PvP format that revolves around capturing points. And, as mentioned with stability and aegis, it would invalidate the whole point of the mechanic.

Rusc.4978:

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

Having Bountiful Theft prioritize stability and aegis enables Thieves to steal with no regard to tactical thinking, and invalidates the whole purpose of those two boons.

I could understand an unblockable attack in the sword auto chain, since the sword is more about sustain and control. But dagger is about burst damage, and is designed around capitalizing on Backstab. The 4s of poison currently on the third chain skill makes more sense for that purpose, since poison neuters healing and leaves targets vulnerable.

Why should anything go through invulnerability? The few skills that provide invuln have short durations, long cooldowns, and leave the user unable to capture points in a PvP format that revolves around capturing points. And, as mentioned with stability and aegis, it would invalidate the whole point of the mechanic.

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

Say you go into stealth, ready up basi venom and prepare to backstab an unaware guardian. But then their passive block comes up. This means now your venom is guaranteed to be wasted and if they’re paying the slightest bit of attention, they’ll notice their block disappear when you go for the backstab and roll or something, assuming you even stay in stealth long enough.

Steal was fine prioritizing aegis and stability(especially since aegis negating Mug was a huge pain and stability shutting down a grandmaster trait+a master trait is meh) and I think that at least should be changed. Not to mention there was a trade off. You could steal some vigor or fury and wreck face, but if they stab/aegis up, you might not get it.

Necrotize.2974:

Rusc.4978:

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

Having Bountiful Theft prioritize stability and aegis enables Thieves to steal with no regard to tactical thinking, and invalidates the whole purpose of those two boons.

I could understand an unblockable attack in the sword auto chain, since the sword is more about sustain and control. But dagger is about burst damage, and is designed around capitalizing on Backstab. The 4s of poison currently on the third chain skill makes more sense for that purpose, since poison neuters healing and leaves targets vulnerable.

Why should anything go through invulnerability? The few skills that provide invuln have short durations, long cooldowns, and leave the user unable to capture points in a PvP format that revolves around capturing points. And, as mentioned with stability and aegis, it would invalidate the whole point of the mechanic.

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

At no point did I say that Thief as a whole isn’t a tactical class, but being able to Steal without regard to stability or aegis is not tactical. Part of playing a burst spec is ensuring that you can proc your burst, and for Thief that includes steal.

If you have a class with access to stability, and you pop that to avoid an interrupt you know is coming, that is the whole idea behind stability as a boon. It’s counterplay to cc and stunlocking in a game with no diminishing returns on cc. Allowing selective cc to ignore stability hurts the integrity of the boon, and on a larger note, it hurts the integrity of the combat system in general.

This is not to say that one skill that blows through stability completely ruins GW2 combat, but it leads to situations like the "maybe it will work, maybe it won’t" nature of reflects.

Also, if a S/P thief is repeatedly blowing their cc/burst while the other player has stability up, that isn’t the fault of the other player.

You’re doing 1v1. Why are you expecting balance? The whole point is that given any specific situation, due to class and/or specialization and/or gear, one of you should have the upper hand.

Bountiful theft doesn’t need a buff.

To beat a dps guardian as a D/P thief you need to land headshot on whirling wrath, land your steal, and land your stolen mace. If you can survive 20 seconds after stealing you can do a steal mace combo while grabbing another mace to make a long daze chain, but this isn’t necessary just a nice to have.

You need to keep up the pressure and force out blinds and blocks. A Dps guardian has strong defense early fight. In the latter half of a fight they don’t have much many defensive options to worry about as long as you’ve been pressuring them. If you allow them to consistently have defenses available, you’ll probably lose. Landing the mace is easiest after they blow aegis, leap, justice, shelter, renewed focus, aegis, justice, and dodges.

Remember: headshot whirl, land your steal, and land your mace. If they have Sword, steal into zealots defense to interrupt it and don’t get hit by the 3rd chain AA.

Necrotize.2974:

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

Medi guards typically don’t have stability, so I don’t understand why there is an argument over this.

Black Box.9312:

Necrotize.2974:

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

Medi guards typically don’t have stability, so I don’t understand why there is an argument over this.

Oh, I was going off topic because the person I quoted brought up that steal shouldn’t prioritize stability and aegis even though it did for the longest time and stopped doing so when they bugged steal/shadowsteps.

Hardcounter ? yes .
Solution : Shortbow him to the death with good kite and well time dodges . Take melee only when you go for a " yolo burst " when he’s low . I play d/p trickery and shortbow is the main issue . If you ever met one in tpvp , don’t engage him 1v1 , same if you are able to win , you will take way too much time , go create an outnumbered situation with your awesome mobility on an other place .

Get poison on steal minor trait. Guard loses.
Put Doom sigil on one of your weapons, guard loses.
Use lifestealing sigil (blood/leeching) and assassins return – you will have enough sustain to take a beating.

Wyrden.4713:

thif counters mesmer worse than guard counters thief…

Necro still counters engi even worse

Wyrden.4713:

thif counters mesmer worse than guard counters thief…

Indeed..but thieves do not see the problem here ;-)

shield of wrath should break if you switch weapon sets. other than that, i think dps guard isn’t all that bad. the changes to flanking strike and blinding powder definitely gives them an upperhand though against thieves since you can counter FS by blocking (lol) and most greatsword skills attack faster than blinding powder pulses. but hey, at least choking gas goes through blocks and lets you basi them through their heal if the stars align in your favor and you somehow manage to predict it like a wizard.

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

You can’t solo triple trouble… Makes no sense just like your argument.

I could pick a random thief that beaten kaypud ONCE and throw it to you… Like you can do the same and it goes forever…

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

You can’t solo triple trouble… Makes no sense just like your argument.

I could pick a random thief that beaten kaypud ONCE and throw it to you… Like you can do the same and it goes forever…

but you just said that with equal level thief can win…. yet kaypud would win 100% over caed… how does it make sense?

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

You can’t solo triple trouble… Makes no sense just like your argument.

I could pick a random thief that beaten kaypud ONCE and throw it to you… Like you can do the same and it goes forever…

but you just said that with equal level thief can win…. yet kaypud would win 100% over caed… how does it make sense?

Let’s face it, How can you judge someone skill level? Maybe kaypud played alot more thief than caed on guardian…

Anyway, I don’t even know pro player, Imo it’s just a waste of time to check pro player. You might be better than me faster. But you lack what really makes them pro player, the ability to know the game trough their experience, therefore potentially shaping next meta for their own class.

But that’s another subject of debates. I will leave this arguing since I have 0 knowledge of the competitive scene. But I don’t consider myself a bad player because of it.

Well i made a pretty lengthy post, however the forums decided to log me out and ate it so I’ll put in in short.

Boon Guard’s boon output shouldn’t be kept up with one trait, there should be multiple sources if you want to do that, hence why a bunker guardian’s bane is a corruption necro, because they turn all those boons into conditions. Also Bountiful Theft gives boons you steal to allies as well, not just yourself, along with vigor.

Mediguards will beat SA D/X thieves if they know what they’re doing because the tempo of the battle= Perma stelath and Backstab, in increments of 4-10s. D/D you just need to avoid getting CnD to wreck their face. Moving around erratically to makes it harder for thieves to land double damage, if you consistently pressure them there should be no problem. S/D thieves are predictable, Symbols or multi hit skills can capitalize on flanking strike since there is a small window to do damage. S/P is a one trick pony, experience players will normally know that if that thief misses too many Pistol Whips they get screwed in which they can capitalize on this. P/D thieves is all about who messes up first if both players are good, but the thief should win most of the time with a condi build. Though the tides of the fight will change is they miss too many CnD’s and Shadow Strikes.

I play Guardian ,Thief and practically every profession half the battle comes from experience and knowledge. Mediguard(except for Amplified Wrath Medi Guard) cannot fight a decent condi engi or a PU mesmer well, and will normally get kited until they die. Condi trap ranger, good luck with that. Warriors that run SoM can beat guardian’s as well with a aggressive fast hitting setup.

nothing can fight condi engie or pu mesmer well, they’re some of the most broken 1v1 specs in the game

anyways my request stands: make shield of wrath dissipate at very reduced or no damage when the guardian switches from x/f while it’s active. the
only broken thing about medi/dps guard is the SoW -> switch to greatsword combo.

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Okay, would you like to show us a demonstration of just how brainless a medi guard is? Solo, of course. You of all people should know that such a brainless build wouldn’t need any sort of assistance to take people down.

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

caed is more known for tPvP isn’t he? GROUP play?

listen to urself bro. if a guard has to be a noob to lose to a thief then that means the ones that aren’t losing are good… in other words u keep getting beaten by good players. secondly, guard has a higher skill cap than u might think making the average guardian quite competent. perhaps u practice dueling guards or actually watch some guard videos and learn how they play instead of writing this nonsense on the threads.

also, you should learn to accept the fact that ur just getting outplayed bro.

Cynz.9437:

I understand concept of hardcounters and all but either this game needs to live it to 100% (which is not the case with engis, warriors and co.) or change the way classes interact that so we don’t have some classes that have no hardcounters and then classes that stand 0 chance vs other.

Seeing as Anet won’t introduce any hardcounters to engis (please don’t bring up necro, engis can still beat them), warriors and co., i think it is time that thieves also have chance even if slight vs guardians. At the moment there only 2 ways thief stands any chance vs guardian:
- guardian is afk and doesn’t fight at all
- thief has help from 2 other players

You would say but hey pvp is not about 1v1, surely it is not and it would be fine if matches wouldn’t consist of 3-5 guardians (rest engis _)….. As thief at that point you might as well just sit afk at spawn or hope that enemy afk. I find it highly discouraging.

I suggest following changes (not necessary together):
Note: all this suggestions are only for pvp, weither or not they should be applied for the rest of the game is different topic.
thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

guard changes:
- contemplation of purity should convert 3 conditions only, not unlimited
- purging flames CD increased by 5 sec
- fiery wrath should be moved to master tier at least
- focused mind should be moved to more damage oriented trait lane
- smite conditions needs it’s CD increased by 5-10 sec
- very arguable: virtrues should only grant teammates buffs if guardian traited for (similar to venom share)

general changes:
- burning dmg/scaling needs to be nerfed in pvp: yes it will affect other classes but i honestly think that burning IS too strong of condition atm in pvp and too easily applied… no matter what class i play atm, pretty much all my deathes come from 20+k burning, 15k+ bleeding and torment in that order… guradians and engis are especially at fault since they apply burning on pretty much any attack
- max amount of might obtainable in pvp should be reduced to 10 (for any class), the duration reduced by 20-30% in pvp
- intelligence sigil should have crit chance reduced to 50% (arguable) instead of 100%
- retal duration needs to be reduced by 50% in pvp
- celestial amulet needs a nerf across all stats in pvp, atm it is too build and meta defining and overshadows other amulets in effectivness (there is enough threads about it)

Actually, I have an easy solution to your problem. Why don’t you go record some footage of you fighting guardians and link it for us so we can tell you exactly what you should and shouldn’t be doing.

sinject.4607:

nothing can fight condi engie or pu mesmer well, they’re some of the most broken 1v1 specs in the game

anyways my request stands: make shield of wrath dissipate at very reduced or no damage when the guardian switches from x/f while it’s active. the
only broken thing about medi/dps guard is the SoW -> switch to greatsword combo.

How is Shield of Wrath broken? It dissipates after 3 attacks and it’s on a 45 second CD, there’s so much counterplay to it. Changing weapon sets does not effect when it’s going to pop. Shield of Wrath is essentially like churning earth worthy tell that says, hey I’m going to move to you, be prepared to get Judges Intervention’d, Flashing Bladed, or Leap of Fate’d, or I’m going to stand near you I hope you don’t have a dodge or move away from me!

PU Mesmer Will lose to a condition build, it’s broken against power melee specs, because clone death gives weakness and popping in and out of stealth they get Aegis, Protection and regen. And by having points in the chaos line regen will grant protection as well.

Condi Engies rule over many 1vX fights because they have sustain, utility with kits passive procs, AoE condi application. It’s a nightmare to face as a melee because you’ll be soft CC’d poison’d burned consistently, and there’s not much you can do if that engi has total control of the fight, you can try to catch up to the engi though you won’t do much . The only thing that will have a much easier time with a Engi is a necro, Condition damage and a lot of controlling effects, transfers to make them eat their own Condi overload.

No doubt, if you wanna go head on with a Guard, you are gonna be so dead. I do not agree with the changes you proposed.

The only time I had problem with a Thief was when i got kited by this one skillful Condi. Thief Shortbow and Sword shadowstep stealth play. Perhaps you could find some build from this.

Cynz, I don’t get your issue.
Are you talking about a Thief vs Mediguard in tpvp? If yes, just avoid it. Mediguard is hard countered by loads of spec in tpvp, the only thing he can do is hold a point in a 1v1 against a thief. He has less mobility than you and his burst his on a really high Cd. He is useless for killing weakened enemies and still takes a while to kill bunkers – it’s just another of those classes that lacks an identity in tpvp. You see a mediguard on the enemy team? Avoid it, and go kill him when he is low and can’t retaliate. They are useless in team fights and will go down like flies if focused. Once they’ve used their block and invuln, you have free Steal+burst on them to finish them off.

Now, if, on the other hand, you were talking about mere 1v1 fights between a thief and a Guardian, I’ll tell you this again: you can kill 99% of the medi guardians by just staying in Shortbow, not missing your steal, and playing mind tricks to ensure you land the stolen ability.
The thing I like the most is dropping sb4 on their feet when they’re using Shelter. Then it’s just a matter of dodging focus5, focus4, Gs5 (might be hard, use Shadow step).
If they’re running sword it’s even easier. With scepter is harder because you need to strafe to minimise the damage you take from autos, but with fire+air sigils you will do overall more damage to them with sb.

Considering medi guardian has zero stability and stun breakers on long cooldowns used primarily for other functions (gap closer/full cleanse), I really don’t see the issue here.

Sounds to me like you don’t even know why you’re losing OP. It’s a common l2p issue when you don’t understand the opponent’s build and mechanics.

If you want to counter Guardians, play a Guardian, for a while at that. Give Guardian a go through PvE to get familiar with the skills and traits a bit by bit. By all means, boost it to 40, but after that start actually playing it. Once you reach (or on your way to) Lv.80, take them for a go through World vs. World. Then start toying around in sPvP. It’s the best way to counter any profession, knowing how they function, how they will typically use rotations, when what is going to be on recharge periods and taking advantage at the right times. Learn to be your worst enemy. That way you can outplay yourself when you meet another player with that profession and build.

If you want to counter Guardians, just don’t play a class weak to them? Or well rather, this is a MMO. Group up, bring someone who is specialized to take them down in that build, and you do something else for them.

Whole premise of the genre and so on

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

You beat THEM by out rotating them, which is the point of the whole conquest game.

Ok the guys saying its a learn to play issue are wrong because med guard counters zerker thief. All things have counters and this is one of the counter for zerker thief. That being said thief odds are much better than zero.

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

Cynz.9437:

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

Who says you’re meant to beat them?
That is to say, you select a class, a spec and a gear loadout. Do you really not expect to be good at some situations and lost at others?

vincecontix.1264:

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

A Condi thief has a hard time against a mediguard, because mediguard have lots of cleanses and in pvp you can’t use dire gear.
Also, mediguard is far more viable for pvp than a Condi thief.

vincecontix.1264:

Ok the guys saying its a learn to play issue are wrong because med guard counters zerker thief. All things have counters and this is one of the counter for zerker thief. That being said thief odds are much better than zero.

You’re half right. Medi guardian does counter zerker thief. That doesn’t mean this isn’t a l2p issue when the guy lists a bunch of problems that have nothing to do with why they counter thief. If you give up before ever trying to work through it, of course you’re going to get rolled. His time would have been better spent playing a medi guardian and working through the mechanics.

Watch for the blinds, dodge the highly telegraphed bursts (SoW, WW) and utilize your own dodges and weakness. Wait for them to blow CoP and they’re sitting ducks to immob. If you got hit with an obvious blind, don’t waste your initiative with a cloak and dagger. Don’t attack shelter as you’re only stacking might for them. If you see Shield of Wrath simply stealth or count to 5 and dodge.

There are PLENTY of tactics that can be used for a thief to beat a medi guardian. None of them include making forum posts asking for nerfs. I stand by my l2p statement, in this case anyways. In a game made of counters, you need to first understand why they counter you.

Cynz.9437:

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

Play something that isn’t a zerker melee build. Medi guard counters other glass cannons. People have already listed plenty of builds that can beat one, and yet you insist on playing one of the few builds weak against it and then cry nerf when you can’t win. Nobody needs to show you a video because you are the one who needs to prove your claims.

hihey.1075:

vincecontix.1264:

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

A Condi thief has a hard time against a mediguard, because mediguard have lots of cleanses and in pvp you can’t use dire gear.
Also, mediguard is far more viable for pvp than a Condi thief.

I love how one condi cleanse every 16s and a full clear every 48s is considered alot, and if this is that one 2/1/6/1/4 build mind you you only get 1 damage amplifier(10%) and your health is very low, 12k in wvw 14k in Spvp with Zerker ammy. Teamfights in Spvp mediguards will often get very pressured by AoE flying around the point. They fall off in that type of environment, especially when focused down.

Guards can be outlasted by a condi theif, it’s not ideal to be a condi thief though in Spvp because they can’t hold points and they normally give up some mobility if they don’t go shortbow secondary set.

Cynz.9437:

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

I don’t see how the 3 guards on the enemy team has any relevance, that just means they have bunkers, or they have two bursty specs that aren’t really mobile and do nothing but do telegraphed burst. This is practically the same thing as saying “show me a video how a mesmer beats a thief of the same skill level, when the enemy has 3 thieves.”

I mainly play Necro these days, but there was a time when I played Mesmer, Thief, and guardian.
Now when I played thief, fighting a guardian was literally the most fun thing I could do. Their attacks are slow enough to be able to actually react to each one, and if I messed up, I got rocked. It felt like it was my skill vs them, and I love it.
Over all classes, fighting guardians is my favorite. They just feel fair to fight.

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Klonko.8341:

Cynz.9437:

Klonko.8341:

If you talk about medi guard… Boon strip stability with steal and then try to chain daze him. (Use mace + CnD into tactical strike). Works wonder… I am not even a main thief and i usually beat them…

i wanna see you beat kaypud on his guard
also boon strip on steal can’t keep up with all boons guards have

gl landing any dazes with blinds aegis and blocks

Wow… I told i’m not even a main thief and I win most of the medi guard but I never said anything about beating a random Main guard (With a lots of time in the profession) as a thief… Even tough, Blind easily avoided if you pay attention a bit. Aegis and stability are removed 1st on the boon stripping traits for steal.

After that, outlast the guard as at some point he will not have that much skill out of cd
which won’t heal him, therefore letting you an open window to burst/daze chain him without real fear.

That’s my 2 cents of a non-main thief.

PS: Shortbow awsome to kite and S/P still evade and dps even when the stun doesnt connect.

so basically guards have to be noobs to lose to thief, ty for proving my point

also, think about pvp, there is usually not just 1 guard….

At somewhat equal level a thief can win. Even with troll build…

caed can’t beat kaypud, your point?

caed doesn’t play a 1on1 spec?

Lucentfir.7430:

hihey.1075:

vincecontix.1264:

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

A Condi thief has a hard time against a mediguard, because mediguard have lots of cleanses and in pvp you can’t use dire gear.
Also, mediguard is far more viable for pvp than a Condi thief.

I love how one condi cleanse every 16s and a full clear every 48s is considered alot, and if this is that one 2/1/6/1/4 build mind you you only get 1 damage amplifier(10%) and your health is very low, 12k in wvw 14k in Spvp with Zerker ammy. Teamfights in Spvp mediguards will often get very pressured by AoE flying around the point. They fall off in that type of environment, especially when focused down.

Guards can be outlasted by a condi theif, it’s not ideal to be a condi thief though in Spvp because they can’t hold points and they normally give up some mobility if they don’t go shortbow secondary set.

They got 2 damage amplifier traits (when enemy is burning and when you have Aegis), plus, you have smite condition (1 every 16), focus #4 (which can cleanse up to 2 conditions) on a really low cd, f3 that cleanses 3, which can be used twice, and CoP. They have both defenses for small applications and big spikes. I really dont struggle much against condi enemies when i (rarely)play my mediguard

Unscathed Contender is only relevant on a clean opening burst, but beyond that it’s incredibly unreliable.

hihey.1075:

Lucentfir.7430:

hihey.1075:

vincecontix.1264:

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

A Condi thief has a hard time against a mediguard, because mediguard have lots of cleanses and in pvp you can’t use dire gear.
Also, mediguard is far more viable for pvp than a Condi thief.

I love how one condi cleanse every 16s and a full clear every 48s is considered alot, and if this is that one 2/1/6/1/4 build mind you you only get 1 damage amplifier(10%) and your health is very low, 12k in wvw 14k in Spvp with Zerker ammy. Teamfights in Spvp mediguards will often get very pressured by AoE flying around the point. They fall off in that type of environment, especially when focused down.

Guards can be outlasted by a condi theif, it’s not ideal to be a condi thief though in Spvp because they can’t hold points and they normally give up some mobility if they don’t go shortbow secondary set.

They got 2 damage amplifier traits (when enemy is burning and when you have Aegis), plus, you have smite condition (1 every 16), focus #4 (which can cleanse up to 2 conditions) on a really low cd, f3 that cleanses 3, which can be used twice, and CoP. They have both defenses for small applications and big spikes. I really dont struggle much against condi enemies when i (rarely)play my mediguard

Unschated Contender…is really a unreliable damage modifier. Fun fact using other blocking sources does not stop Aegis from being expended on a single attack so if you have Shield of Wrath up Aegis will still proc. Ray of Judgement is a 25s CD and semi homing slow moving projectile which can be dodged, it’s not so much a reliable cleanse since if there are pets or other target sources there’s a good chance it won’t bounce to you unless you’re the closest target. It’s good but it’s not reliable. Virtue of Resolve active for 3 condi cleanse to do twice you need to use Renewed Focus which means blowing 72-90s CD to get your Condition removal on VoR back faster.

2/1/6/1/4 will have better condition removal but but trades off damage for it in order to gain that utility for virtues. You’ll get blown up by focus fire still, and anyone who has a good idea of what they’re doing and has actually played the class. I don’t have much problem with guardians when I play my thief with shortbow but that’s because I’ve played with the class for so long. That I know most of the quirks and tricks of the class and spec.