Guild Wars 2

The thief can remove 2 conditions each time he goes in stealth, if and only if at least 10 points are spend in shadow arts.

This means that a thief can remove 2 conditions every 3-4 seconds since they are constantly in stealth.

But that is not the end of the story.

Thieves have access to:

• infiltrator strike on the sword #2 skill, which allows the thief to remove any condition any time he wants.

• Hide in shadows (the healing skill) that removes burning poison and bleeding (and 2 more condition because they have shadow embrace treated.)

• Shadow step which removes 3 condition and 3 more condition removed when shadow return is activated.

• Shadow refuge which can remove up to 6 condition (because they can last in stealth for 15 seconds which means that one condition is removed upon entering stealth + 5 conditions removed in the 15 seconds of stealth.)

By just spending 10 points in survival, the thief can have access to an incredible survival build.

Keep in mind the following:

• Shadow step will also break stunts TWICE.
• Infiltrator strike will return to original place confusing the attacker, if you are immobilized, just use infiltrators return so your attacker cannot get to you.
• Shadow refuge 15 seconds of WTF where Is the thief. (the condition removal skills recharging, him gaining initiative/health).

Now the thief can use the remaining 60 points to make a powerful damage build.

The solution is simple:

If the thief wants to have a survival build, then change the shadow embrace trait to grand master. That will force them to spend 30 points in survival.

Yeah, no. Take your badness elsewhere.

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

You know I really thought you knew what you were saying.. But as soon as I saw 2 condi’s removed when entering stealth everything became obsolete. You remove 1 condition when entering stealth every 3 secs.

most players would say L2P, because it seems like you get beat by alot of thieves.

thieves can remove condis by traiting into desfensive tree…. oh noes

Dear Arenanet,

Thief is not a free loot bag yet. Please nerf mobility, healing and stealth further.

Sincerely,
Player

AikijinX.6258:

You know I really thought you knew what you were saying.. But as soon as I saw 2 condi’s removed when entering stealth everything became obsolete. You remove 1 condition when entering stealth every 3 secs.

most players would say L2P, because it seems like you get beat by alot of thieves.

Ignorant,

Please avoid posting non sense before you test the skill and see the description.

This trait removes 1 condition upon entering stealth and removes 1 more condition in 3 seconds.

IchigoHatake.5098:

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

Nobody said about taking the condition removal. I said if they want to play a survival build then the trait should be grand master.

The condition removal is mostly dictated by your enemy. You do get removal with the trait + HiS and shadow refuge and blackpowder. If you don’t make it back into stealth you can’t cleanse. You can d/p so it is more in your control but the trait does have weaknesses.

Every time you enter stealth you remove a condition. 3 secs later if still in stealth another condition is removed.

I only play Thief, and have over 3.1k hours. I think i’ve tested enough.

oZii.2864:

The condition removal is mostly dictated by your enemy. You do get removal with the trait + HiS and shadow refuge and blackpowder. If you don’t make it back into stealth you can’t cleanse. You can d/p so it is more in your control but the trait does have weaknesses.

Nop, it does not have weaknesses.

• The build can survive dps by using the stun breakers/stealth/Black Powder.
• The build can survive condition damage by using condition removal and stealth.

What is appalling is that it can do all this by just putting 10 points in shadow arts.

The problem is that the trait is in the lowest tier, which allows the thieves to make the build extremely survival and extremely dps since they have 60 points left to put them in power/critical damage.

IchigoHatake.5098:

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

1. berserker stance takes up a utility slot and has a 60sec cooldown
2. Dolyak Signet doesn’t remove conditions. Duh
3. cleansing ire is a master trait and requires that you first build up adrenaline and then land your burst. This can’t be done every 4secs like thieves entering stealth

OneBloke.7264:

IchigoHatake.5098:

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

1. berserker stance takes up a utility slot and has a 60sec cooldown
2. Dolyak Signet doesn’t remove conditions. Duh
3. cleansing ire is a master trait and requires that you first build up adrenaline and then land your burst. This can’t be done every 4secs like thieves entering stealth

Adrenaline can be built up very quick and its 3 conditions for each max burst (1 condition per bar spent).

Hitman.5829

The thief can remove 2 conditions each time he goes in stealth, if and only if at least 10 points are spend in shadow arts.

This means that a thief can remove 2 conditions every 3-4 seconds since they are constantly in stealth.

But that is not the end of the story.

Thieves have access to:

• infiltrator strike on the sword #2 skill, which allows the thief to remove any condition any time he wants.

This costs 5 initiative every time you want to remove 1 condition.

• Hide in shadows (the healing skill) that removes burning poison and bleeding (and 2 more condition because they have shadow embrace treated.)

• Shadow step which removes 3 condition and 3 more condition removed when shadow return is activated.

Shadow Step only removes 3 conditions on activating Shadow Return, not on the initial activation of the skill.

Shadow refuge which can remove up to 6 condition (because they can last in stealth for 15 seconds which means that one condition is removed upon entering stealth + 5 conditions removed in the 15 seconds of stealth.)

While the area is bombarded with AoE or you’re pulled out of it

By just spending 10 points in survival, the thief can have access to an incredible survival build.

Keep in mind the following:

• Shadow step will also break stunts TWICE.
• Infiltrator strike will return to original place confusing the attacker, if you are immobilized, just use infiltrators return so your attacker cannot get to you.
• Shadow refuge 15 seconds of WTF where Is the thief. (the condition removal skills recharging, him gaining initiative/health).

In the red circle with the house over it, AoE the crap out of it, or use a knock back, pull, push, or launch skill.

Now the thief can use the remaining 60 points to make a powerful damage build.

What else do thieves have?

The solution is simple:

If the thief wants to have a survival build, then change the shadow embrace trait to grand master. That will force them to spend 30 points in survival.

I already spend 30 points in Shadow Arts and there is no way one condition removed on stealth then one more after three seconds will be able to compete with Shadow’s Rejuvenation.

Shadows embrace is nowhere enough to counter a condition build. Not at all.

Condition damage is out of control. Currently you can mitigate this somewhat by specializing in condition removal – but your dps will suffer.

The real issue is that you have to spec to specifically to survive condition builds. First condition builds have an easy time with stats, because they only need one offensive stat and can tage two defensive, plus food for the duration. Way too easy. On top of that, to fight against a condition build you need to specialize for it, whereas a condition build gets his toughness and vitality as part of his build for free.

That is the real imbalance.

Yes Shadow embrace ist “strong”, but other classes have much more anticondition skills than the thief (1(+1) Skill + 2 Traits) and no low healthpool.
e.g.
Warriors can remove 6 Conditions every 8s only with their Adrenalin, have a bigger healthpool, a lot of Blocks and Immunities and the strongest healskills in this game.

IchigoHatake.5098:

What about warriors? They can have berserker stance, dolyak signet, cleansing ire trait, all of which can remove condi quickly, plus thieves have low health, taking away their condi removal means making the class quite under powered.

^
Yup.

Op, think before you write and look at how many option a thief has to remove a condi, would you?

Now, do you see what I’m trying to say?! We just don’t have the Hp pool to survive and condition for too long. Give us 18,800 base Hp instead of 11,000 and we talk again

I can make this simple. Given the health pool and the lack of traits that control conditions well thief is left with limited options. Passive application is high and our health pool is just too small to deal with conditions the way other classes.

The other thing is I read your post history and despite long gaps of silence it seems you have never played thief or take the time to examine the skills properly. Your OP is riddled with mistakes that make your argument all that less valid and like any nerf thread does not provide a reasonable alternative. given the high amount of simple passive condi application thief needs a “cheap” trait to deal with it. This may upset you but thief has one of the worst times dealing with condition builds as it is.

If you want this nerfed take the time to play the class and understand why so many of us are forced to run this. Better yet play a S/P thief and understand why we actually need traits like this.

The sad part is most players know to stay away from this topic. Condi management cross class leaves us and ranger at the bottom of the list right below mesmer.

the eteral fight on wich is more OP between warroirs and thieves.

What about on balancing both?

The issue of that being OP is totally removing one of the few counters stealth has.

‘’Hi I’m OP, everything that is remotely useful is overpowered, nerf pls ANet, ty.’’

Look beyond the horizons of your own class and open your eyes. Thief has -GOOD- condition removal, but -DEFINITELY- not OP. Please try out a warrior or a guardian before suggestion that condition cleansing on thieves are OP. Also, as has been mentioned before; Thieves generally have ~15k HP at most when roaming. Inb4 OP has no clue what he’s saying and should revise his own utmost false and invalid arguments.

Yours sincerely,

The Thief-community.

Shadow Embrace removes 1 condition after 1s and then another condition every 3s.

If you just have 10 points in SA stealth only lasts 3s, so Shadow Embrace just removes 1 condition.

If you have 15+ points in SA stealth lasts 4s, but you have to stay the whole 4s in stealth in order to let SE remove 2 conditions. Thus you cannot use backstab because it breaks stealth before the 4s is over.

Please get your facts right before you make any assumptions.

I don’t think Shadow’s Embrace is over powered.

As a condi Mesmer, which has some of the weakest condition durations, I have not problem fending off a Thief even if they do have a lot of condition removal.
Between Chaos Armor, Chaos Storm, staff clones, Illusionary Counter and The Prestige, I can force them back every time they have a go at me or suffer a lot of damage in the attempt.

Now I can’t find them to save myself, since nether the staff nor scepter auto attacks are good at probing the area (nor any other skill besides chaos storm), but if they come at me they will regret it.
Because to have that kind of stealth and DPS, Thieves are made of wafer.

They can deal a lot of damage, but if you throw any of it back at them, they fold up quickly.

Hitman.5829:

The thief can remove 2 conditions each time he goes in stealth, if and only if at least 10 points are spend in shadow arts.

1. 1 condition.
2. Learn the meaning of “if and only if.”

This means that a thief can remove 2 conditions every 3-4 seconds since they are constantly in stealth.

3. 1 every 3s… if stealthed (constantly in stealth? I don’t even…)

But that is not the end of the story.

oh boy!

Thieves have access to:

• infiltrator strike on the sword #2 skill, which allows the thief to remove any condition any time he wants.

4. If you use s/x, which has become less and less attractive with each successive nerf.

• Hide in shadows (the healing skill) that removes burning poison and bleeding (and 2 more condition because they have shadow embrace treated.)

5. 2 condi removal on a 30s cooldown? Oh, goody!

• Shadow step which removes 3 condition and 3 more condition removed when shadow return is activated.

6. Doesn’t work that way at all. No condi removal on Shadow-Step, but on the Shadow Return – which means that if you use it as a condi-removal, it’s a 3 condis /50s.

• Shadow refuge which can remove up to 6 condition (because they can last in stealth for 15 seconds which means that one condition is removed upon entering stealth + 5 conditions removed in the 15 seconds of stealth.)

7. So you agree that 2 conditions/3s in stealth babble you wrote earlier was nonsense?

By just spending 10 points in survival, the thief can have access to an incredible survival build.
Keep in mind the following:

• Shadow step will also break stunts TWICE.

8. So you’re implying that you’d be stunned, teleport 1200, and then be immediately stunned again to allow it to be used as a stunbreaker twice. Really?

• Infiltrator strike will return to original place confusing the attacker, if you are immobilized, just use infiltrators return so your attacker cannot get to you.

9. If a thief still uses sword. Regardlesss, there is a cast time. Bring the pain onto that thief.

• Shadow refuge 15 seconds of WTF where Is the thief. (the condition removal skills recharging, him gaining initiative/health).

Now the thief can use the remaining 60 points to make a powerful damage build.

The solution is simple:

If the thief wants to have a survival build, then change the shadow embrace trait to grand master. That will force them to spend 30 points in survival.

So really, your whole complaint centers on condition removal? Gosh, take a look at warriors, guardians, rangers, engineers… actually, take a good look at all the professions. Even the mesmer, renowned for its low condition removal, could take the Mender’s Purity trait (oh no, an overpowered Adept trait!) and cure 4 (potentially 6) condis every 10s with Mantra of Recovery. So if you are going to complain, at least educate yourself beforehand.

Requiem.8769:

So really, your whole complaint centers on condition removal? Gosh, take a look at warriors, guardians, rangers, engineers… actually, take a good look at all the professions. Even the mesmer, renowned for its low condition removal, could take the Mender’s Purity trait (oh no, an overpowered Adept trait!) and cure 4 (potentially 6) condis every 10s with Mantra of Recovery. So if you are going to complain, at least educate yourself beforehand.

Yep, we Mesmer’s have some pretty strong condition removal if you want to spec for it.
x4 with Mender’s Purity with Mantra of Recovery. 10 sec
x4 with Mantra of Resolve, and it’s aoe. 20 sec
Both of which can have their recharge reduced by 20% with 10 points in Dueling.
And 20 points in Domination gives you condition removal on Torch skills.

And so on and so forth. Makes the Thieves condition removal look tame by contrast.

you want thief condi cleanses removed? k, but nerf condi builds first.

I wonder how many times you had to be beat up by a Thief, while using a condi build, in order to create this topic. And if you got beat up that many times, WITH A CONDI BUILD there is 2 options:

1º – The Thief was really, but REALLY good, and in all WvW maps you just encontered that Thief and no other
2º – You suck so bad, that even new players would do better (since condi builds most likely are bunk also, and if you are not then Idk what are you doing with that build, adn most are just faceroll builds… SPAM CONDIS, SPAMMMMMMMM)

Omg, thieves super OP nerf them again in the ashes of the hell.

Comon man, you are really awesome. Try to play a thief not in sPvP and you can just see how bad can be this class in WvW group fights and tPvP vs brain foes.

I don’t know but seeing this OP & comparing thief’s traits with my ranger’s traits – the only condition removal from traits is empathic bond on 10 sec cd & requires to have your pet alive (which is not very possible in wvw) & also requires to invest 30 points in the trait line to get it.

so comparing empathic bond to this thief’s 10 point trait i think there must be something really really really wrong with the profession balance….

also empathic bond is not a controllable thing like the thief’s version

Sasajoe.1509:

I don’t know but seeing this OP & comparing thief’s traits with my ranger’s traits – the only condition removal from traits is empathic bond on 10 sec cd & requires to have your pet alive (which is not very possible in wvw) & also requires to invest 30 points in the trait line to get it.

so comparing empathic bond to this thief’s 10 point trait i think there must be something really really really wrong with the profession balance….

Yes there is: ranger is a trash profession, with trash traits, trash class mechanic, traits that should be included in the class itself (Opening Strike) and shouldn’t require you to spec for them and utility skills (Guard, Protect Me, Search and Rescue) that should be F skills, since they control your pet, instead of requiring you to use slot skills. Also you’re talking about the class with least condition removal so it’s not like it should be taken as an example to balance other classes. Ranger should get some serious buffs, not the other way around.

mPascoal.4258:

I wonder how many times you had to be beat up by a Thief, while using a condi build, in order to create this topic. And if you got beat up that many times, WITH A CONDI BUILD there is 2 options:

1º – The Thief was really, but REALLY good, and in all WvW maps you just encontered that Thief and no other
2º – You suck so bad, that even new players would do better (since condi builds most likely are bunk also, and if you are not then Idk what are you doing with that build, adn most are just faceroll builds… SPAM CONDIS, SPAMMMMMMMM)

Odds are the thief was running glass. I’ve been hit by a backstab by an enemy zerker thief while wearing full apothecary gear (and specced completely into the Shadow Arts traitline). The damage…ouch, it was at least 6K of my 13K health. I can see why he wouldn’t like fighting them, since the ones spamming stealth are always zerker builds. Outside of any armorset that gives toughness or vitality, you won’t last long (and even with those, you last maybe an extra 30 seconds).

Very simple and to the point:

Shadow embrace need to be put in grand master trait. If the thief want to have a survival build then let them spend 30 points in shadow arts.

Simple, crystal clear.

End of story

Hitman.5829:

Very simple and to the point:

Shadow embrace need to be put in grand master trait. If the thief want to have a survival build then let them spend 30 points in shadow arts.

Simple, crystal clear.

End of story

No. Shadow’s Embrace is one of thieve’s best condition removal and it’s barely on par with other professions. I am not even going to ask what you plan to give thieves to compensate for such a big nerf because I know you will answer with “moar skill-based play”.

You’de have wasted less time and done more by just saying “delete thief”.

EDIT: btw if thief condition removal is OP then why are you not on a thief abusing this in the condition meta. Lemme guess… pride.

Zacchary.6183:

Hitman.5829:

Very simple and to the point:

Shadow embrace need to be put in grand master trait. If the thief want to have a survival build then let them spend 30 points in shadow arts.

Simple, crystal clear.

End of story

No. Shadow’s Embrace is one of thieve’s best condition removal and it’s barely on par with other professions. I am not even going to ask what you plan to give thieves to compensate for such a big nerf because I know you will answer with “moar skill-based play”.

You’de have wasted less time and done more by just saying “delete thief”.

EDIT: btw if thief condition removal is OP then why are you not on a thief abusing this in the condition meta. Lemme guess… pride.

well I’d respond to that, some people don’t enjoy easy-mode while playing. & back to the thing :

Why should I with my ranger spend 30 points in WS trait line to get empathic bond which isn’t even close to how good Shadow’s Embrace is ?
Why shouldn’t rangers have equally good trait ?

Sasajoe.1509:

Zacchary.6183:

Hitman.5829:

Very simple and to the point:

Shadow embrace need to be put in grand master trait. If the thief want to have a survival build then let them spend 30 points in shadow arts.

Simple, crystal clear.

End of story

No. Shadow’s Embrace is one of thieve’s best condition removal and it’s barely on par with other professions. I am not even going to ask what you plan to give thieves to compensate for such a big nerf because I know you will answer with “moar skill-based play”.

You’de have wasted less time and done more by just saying “delete thief”.

EDIT: btw if thief condition removal is OP then why are you not on a thief abusing this in the condition meta. Lemme guess… pride.

well I’d respond to that, some people don’t enjoy easy-mode while playing. & back to the thing :

Why should I with my ranger spend 30 points in WS trait line to get empathic bond which isn’t even close to how good Shadow’s Embrace is ?
Why shouldn’t rangers have equally good trait ?

Because you guys have Bear, Signet of Renewal and Healing Spring to compensate whereas thieves have Shadow Return and Signet of Agility.

Oh and Empathetic bond lasts forever whereas Shadow’s Embrace requires the thief to remain stealthed.

Maesk.8753:

Yeah, no. Take your badness elsewhere.

Thats an angry thief right there, lulz

Bear is very unreliable & slow cast, signet of renewal has a 10 sec interval effect on passive – active has HUGE cd & also kills the pet, healing spring cd is also too high & the healing is very little & also rangers don’t have a long stealth breaks in order to deny reapplications of conditions.

Sasajoe.1509:

Bear is very unreliable & slow cast, signet of renewal has a 10 sec interval effect on passive – active has HUGE cd & also kills the pet, healing spring cd is also too high & the healing is very little & also rangers don’t have a long stealth breaks in order to deny reapplications of conditions.

.5 seconds isn’t slow and like every pet-based class in existence the pet is only as good as the player controlling it. And no, pets are not bugged. I’ve been a Hunter main on WoW for over a year and those pets were buggy, but I got passed the problems anyway because I knew how my pet handled. I didn’t treat them like meat bags/extra dps like most of the rangers I see on gw2. Same on here.

Empathic Bond is on average 1 condition every 1.3 seconds (vs 1 every 3) however you don’t have to remain camouflaged to get the benefit. You just have to keep your pet alive which is entirely your fault if they die. Not only that, it isn’t even your best removal. And if your rebuttal is pets suck, then you are wrong. See the first paragraph.

Healing spring is a water field. If damaging conditions are killing you THAT quickly you can do blast and leap finishers for 1.3k hp. At least you guys have a water field on hand whereas thieves have to borrow. And btw, thieves’ best heal Hide in Shadows is also on a 30CD and only cures select conditions.

Stealth doesn’t deny anything. You get hit with anything in stealth and you eat the entire attack. The only thing stealth denies is autotargeting which you shouldn’t even be using anyways.

As others mentioned you have to trait for conditions you don’t gear for them. If you have a thief you know SE moved to GM makes thief free lunch.

This is silly even asking this this thread is bad. Asking for a trait to be moved because another class spends less points for condi removal lol. I spend 30 on my ele which is my main and has probably the best condition removal tools in the game and it still isn’t enough. I don’t mind thieves only needing 10.

iPsychO.5043:

‘’Hi I’m OP, everything that is remotely useful is overpowered, nerf pls ANet, ty.’’

Look beyond the horizons of your own class and open your eyes. Thief has -GOOD- condition removal, but -DEFINITELY- not OP. Please try out a warrior or a guardian before suggestion that condition cleansing on thieves are OP. Also, as has been mentioned before; Thieves generally have ~15k HP at most when roaming. Inb4 OP has no clue what he’s saying and should revise his own utmost false and invalid arguments.

Yours sincerely,

The Thief-community.

^
This

Yes, we can remove conditions based on ONE Trait bc. we got easy access to stealth if
we want to.
But you know what? If we don’t remove condis like really freaking fcing fast, we will even die of some poison condition.
Now look at – I don’t wanna name Warrior all the time, it’s getting boring pointing at the obvious – Guardian for exampel. Same health – so how many conditions does it take to bring him to his knees?! Like Torment and Poison and Bleed and maybe some Elite Mob facerolling him. Thief would die from any of them if he doesn’t stealth faster than you can count to 3.

Zacchary i know you are playing thief & you try to save your skin but the ranger’s pets are the buggiest thing there is & the forums support this fact also + having in mind your statement & obvious lack of knowledge of ranger profession I assume you have never ever really played a ranger.

If you had you would have probably known that when you press the f2 ability for example your pet starts automatically run towards your target & since the brown bear has cleanse on a 600 radius it is not reliable at all.

Also ranger pets can almost never hit moving targets because of the root animation for the worthless AI. But I assume you didn’t know that either.

Also if you choose a bear pet you sacrifice some of the usefulness of the cc pets like dogs & spiders (which both aren’t really that astounding by themselves too but have a use or two)

& last but not least thieves having the ability to stealth whenever they want is only a plus for them in most cases – wvw* (leaving structured out of the quiestion)

I think it would be great balance for starters if devs moved empathic bond to a 10 pts trait & also gave more stealth to rangers.

Since they don’t think the current state of stealth is broken there should be no problem for that to happen.

Sasajoe.1509:

Zacchary i know you are playing thief & you try to save your skin but the ranger’s pets are the buggiest thing there is & the forums support this fact also + having in mind your statement & obvious lack of knowledge of ranger profession I assume you have never ever really played a ranger.

If you had you would have probably known that when you press the f2 ability for example your pet starts automatically run towards your target & since the brown bear has cleanse on a 600 radius it is not reliable at all.

Also ranger pets can almost never hit moving targets because of the root animation for the worthless AI. But I assume you didn’t know that either.

Also if you choose a bear pet you sacrifice some of the usefulness of the cc pets like dogs & spiders (which both aren’t really that astounding by themselves too but have a use or two)

& last but not least thieves having the ability to stealth whenever they want is only a plus for them in most cases – wvw* (leaving structured out of the quiestion)

I think it would be great balance for starters if devs moved empathic bond to a 10 pts trait & also gave more stealth to rangers.

Since they don’t think the current state of stealth is broken there should be no problem for that to happen.

You are right I have not played Ranger for very long, however I understand the concepts required to play pet-based classes on a competitive basis in WoW and the concepts have not changed in GW2.

However buggy a pet is or how hard it is to handle your pet, it’s performance in combat is entirely dependent on the player because it’s a team effort 100% of the time. Those kinds of classes are forced into team play. And as a team, there must be coordination or the performance of the team suffers.

For example:
> If I need my pet by me right now I make it run to me while I run to it.
> If my pet is suffering while my health is high, I try to draw fire and kite while my pet recovers. While that’s happening my pet goes from tank to dps.
> If my pet has a hard time hitting someone, I root them or force them into pet’s attack range through kiting.

Get it?

As for thieves, Shadow’s Embrace and Shadow Return are the most viable condition removals a thief has. Every other trait is either weak, situational or only removes certain damaging conditions and most of them are on long cooldowns with the only exception being Signet of Agility and that only cures 1.

The low hp does not help either. If the conditions are too lengthy or not removed fast enough, the thief will melt. Hell, cripple and immobilize spam alone can kill a thief let alone a few stacks of bleed. So in order to maintain a competitive condition removal thieves need Shadow’s Embrace which is, like I said, one of our best forms of condition removal. Nerf it to hell and thieves will start using s/x which is currently sub-par.

There is not a single build in the current sPvP meta running SEmbrace, or, for that matter, Shadow Arts. The trait line basically turns your thief into a floppy punching bag that does virtually no damage. Anyways, the average thief stealth build has anywhere from 50 to 60 absolutely dedicated trait points that can’t go anywhere else.

If you can’t deal with a thief that is going any more than 10 points into SA in WvW, then you have a serious problem.

Yes OP, one condition removed every 3 seconds is totally OP in a meta where classes can apply stacks of conditions instantaneously. Thank you, you have enlightened me.

Zacc you seem to not understand me – when you try to use your bear cleanse it starts running towards the target (too which is the bugged part) & in order to for me to get the cleanse I have to go in there.

lets say it’s a 1v1 vs a condition spammer in wvw roaming & if i am heavily doted & no matter if i have commanded the bear to stay right next to meor i command it to come to me the moment i press the F2 button it starts running towards the target again & i have two choices there to get back in & get 2 condis removes & potentially get tons more on me or to run away & hope they don’t kill me…

Both things aren’t good & reliable ways to cope with conditions so no rangers don’t have any good condition cleaners.

On topic now that is why I require rangers to have EB pulled down to 10 pts trait. or even better entirely reworked

Arganthium.5638:

There is not a single build in the current sPvP meta running SEmbrace, or, for that matter, Shadow Arts. The trait line basically turns your thief into a floppy punching bag that does virtually no damage. Anyways, the average thief stealth build has anywhere from 50 to 60 absolutely dedicated trait points that can’t go anywhere else.

If you can’t deal with a thief that is going any more than 10 points into SA in WvW, then you have a serious problem.

True. I’m 30 points into Shadow Arts bc. it’s quite useful in PVE but for everything else it’s a waste. Fact is: You loose 10 points into that line so you can get rid from condis at all. It’s like the only way to do it effectivly.
Ele (which I see as a good balanced example here) rids everyone around him from condis if he switches to water BUT can also use some other skills to do that. I’d love to heal myself whenever I switch to a certain set of weapons, I really do bc. if there’s no target close-by you can stealth on with d/d OR you don’t have that stealth-healing skill ready it’s almost bye-bye for my thief.