Guild Wars 2

One thing that I haven’t seen brought up recently is how strong weakness is (and currently helps drive the trend toward condi/tanky). Weakness was relatively strong previously, applying glancing-blows to non-crits, as well as lower endurance regen. About the time that condis started getting out of control, weakness was changed to apply to glancing blows to all hits, as well as the reduced endurance regen.

Whereas before, weakness could be ignored if you had enough crit chance, now it absolutely demolishes you. Why? If a hit would crit, and instead gets turned into a glancing blow, it becomes 50% of your base damage (not the damage the crit would have). This means that you get >25% reduction in damage.

If you have 50% crit chance, and 50% crit damage (common for a glass/dps build):
- Half your hits would be non-crits. 50% of which are now glancing: 25% normal hits, 25% glancing blows
- Half your hits would be crits, 50% of which are now glancing: 25% crits, 25% glancing blows

With weakness: total damage .25*(1+0.5+2+0.5) = 1.0 base power damage
W/o weakness: .5*(1+2) = 1.5 base power damage

I would propose that weakness be changed so that glancing crits do 50% of the critical damage (in this case 0.5*2) as opposed to do 50% of a normal hit. This might help shift dps vs. condi to be a bit more even.

Pretty sure the damage of a glancing crit is just 50% of a crit’s normal damage already. Have you tested to make sure that’s not the case?

Or perhaps the RNG silliness can be thrown out the window and weakness can reduce all attacks by x% as the opposite of protection.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Pretty sure the damage of a glancing crit is just 50% of a crit’s normal damage already. Have you tested to make sure that’s not the case?

Yes, I have tested. A glancing crit is 50% of a normal hit. It is one reason why weakness is so strong since they changed it to affect crits.

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

BlackBeard.2873:

One thing that I haven’t seen brought up recently is how strong weakness is (and currently helps drive the trend toward condi/tanky). Weakness was relatively strong previously, applying glancing-blows to non-crits, as well as lower endurance regen. About the time that condis started getting out of control, weakness was changed to apply to glancing blows to all hits, as well as the reduced endurance regen.

Whereas before, weakness could be ignored if you had enough crit chance, now it absolutely demolishes you. Why? If a hit would crit, and instead gets turned into a glancing blow, it becomes 50% of your base damage (not the damage the crit would have). This means that you get >25% reduction in damage.

If you have 50% crit chance, and 50% crit damage (common for a glass/dps build):
- Half your hits would be non-crits. 50% of which are now glancing: 25% normal hits, 25% glancing blows
- Half your hits would be crits, 50% of which are now glancing: 25% crits, 25% glancing blows

With weakness: total damage .25*(1+0.5+2+0.5) = 1.0 base power damage
W/o weakness: .5*(1+2) = 1.5 base power damage

I would propose that weakness be changed so that glancing crits do 50% of the critical damage (in this case 0.5*2) as opposed to do 50% of a normal hit. This might help shift dps vs. condi to be a bit more even.

You don’t remember correctly, weakness was worthless before the change. It should still effect criticals the same as it does now. Also, the people constantly complaining about the condition meta need to realize that the amount of dps and condition builds are pretty much right now.

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

Clearly a zerker player. The answer is no, Weakness got changed so that Zerker builds didn’t flat-out ignore it because it didn’t do what it was supposed to: reduce their damage. Changing it to affect conditions is just silly, as their damage output is actually not that high. Or is 1.5k DPS too much for you to handle?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

Clearly a zerker player. The answer is no, Weakness got changed so that Zerker builds didn’t flat-out ignore it because it didn’t do what it was supposed to: reduce their damage. Changing it to affect conditions is just silly, as their damage output is actually not that high. Or is 1.5k DPS too much for you to handle?

I don’t play Zerker interestingly enough. And yes, Condition damage can stack up quickly with Bleed, Torment, Poison, Burning, and Confusion.

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

That is a fair bit unreasonable. Your suggesting rewarding players who invest it one stat, while punishing players who invest in another.

coglin.1867:

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

That is a fair bit unreasonable. Your suggesting rewarding players who invest it one stat, while punishing players who invest in another.

So why does the Protection buff exist?

Protection affects direct damage. Weakness should be the opposite.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

Clearly a zerker player. The answer is no, Weakness got changed so that Zerker builds didn’t flat-out ignore it because it didn’t do what it was supposed to: reduce their damage. Changing it to affect conditions is just silly, as their damage output is actually not that high. Or is 1.5k DPS too much for you to handle?

Yes, it was useless pre-buff but now it completely destroys Power Builds as a whole. 50% reduction is too much, maybe something along the lines of 20%~30% reduction is more acceptable.

I think the only classes that would not want to this to be changed are the biggest offenders, Engineers (with Elixir Gun) and Necros.

In WvW, this needs no change, it’s fine how it is. PvP…I dunno, I don’t PvP that much.

Kyon.9735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

Clearly a zerker player. The answer is no, Weakness got changed so that Zerker builds didn’t flat-out ignore it because it didn’t do what it was supposed to: reduce their damage. Changing it to affect conditions is just silly, as their damage output is actually not that high. Or is 1.5k DPS too much for you to handle?

Yes, it was useless pre-buff but now it completely destroys Power Builds as a whole. 50% reduction is too much, maybe something along the lines of 20%~30% reduction is more acceptable.

I think the only classes that would not want to this to be changed are the biggest offenders, Engineers (with Elixir Gun) and Necros.

50% chance of 50% reduction is 25% average reduction. Already within your proposed range. Also, weaker than Protection.

@Ryld: you must be talking about condition necros. I actually listed their DPS quite accurately, and I am most familiar with the build. 1.5-1.8k DPS is not as scary as you make it out to be.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Kyon.9735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ryld.1340:

Suggestion: Make it affect Normal Hits and Conditions. Remove the Crit part.

Clearly a zerker player. The answer is no, Weakness got changed so that Zerker builds didn’t flat-out ignore it because it didn’t do what it was supposed to: reduce their damage. Changing it to affect conditions is just silly, as their damage output is actually not that high. Or is 1.5k DPS too much for you to handle?

Yes, it was useless pre-buff but now it completely destroys Power Builds as a whole. 50% reduction is too much, maybe something along the lines of 20%~30% reduction is more acceptable.

I think the only classes that would not want to this to be changed are the biggest offenders, Engineers (with Elixir Gun) and Necros.

50% chance of 50% reduction is 25% average reduction. Already within your proposed range. Also, weaker than Protection.

@Ryld: you must be talking about condition necros. I actually listed their DPS quite accurately, and I am most familiar with the build. 1.5-1.8k DPS is not as scary as you make it out to be.

They have quite more then a burst of 2k DPS. And when you only have 12-13k health as an Ele, that’s a LOT of damage to eat.

Weakness was buffed a few months ago because it was worthless to have on someone because of its tiny damage reduction. Why reduce it again? I think adding a condition aspect is a better proposal. Perhaps a 50% chance a condition does 50% damage? Only seems fair.

I am only suggesting to make reduce glancing crits to be 50% of the crit value, as opposed to 50% of the non-crit value (as it currently does). This gives you a dps reduction that is even across the board for all power specs, as opposed to over-punishing burst specs as it currently does.

Edit: Just to clarify, I am aware it was buffed months ago because it was worthless against high-crit builds (which could ignore it, as I stated in the OP). I am simply suggesting to put it slightly more in-line so that it is not over-punishing crit builds currently.

Doesn’t that affect burst specs far more than a tanker spec, then?

Roe.3679:

Doesn’t that affect burst specs far more than a tanker spec, then?

Currently, as stated in the OP, it affects burst specs MORE than tanky specs by punishing crit builds even more. I am only proposing to normalize it.

I’m all for making the change to Weakness to half the crit damage instead of half base damage. I honestly thought that was how it worked to begin with.

@Ryld: The burst deals about 2.5k for 2 to 3 seconds. That’s a hefty chunk of damage, sure, but still small potatoes compared to actual burst builds. Dhuumfire, the great enabler, is getting changed anyway in the next patch (in a good way overall), so no reason for Weakness to apply to conditions.

I’m ok with Weakness being pretty strong.

What’s not ok is that it is applied so generously through various auto-attacks and other abilities. Weakness is probably the most abundant condition in this game, next to Bleeds. Every second mob seems to apply it too.

Sure, you can chance the effect of Weakness, but please stop handing it out like candy on Halloween.

amiavamp.9785:

Or perhaps the RNG silliness can be thrown out the window and weakness can reduce all attacks by x% as the opposite of protection.

Agree. I suggest Weakness reduce direct damage (crit or non-crit) and condition damage by 33%.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m ok with Weakness being pretty strong.

What’s not ok is that it is applied so generously through various auto-attacks and other abilities. Weakness is probably the most abundant condition in this game, next to Bleeds. Every second mob seems to apply it too.

Sure, you can chance the effect of Weakness, but please stop handing it out like candy on Halloween.

Actually no, weakness is not the most abundant condition out there. In fact, I rarely see it in PvE, and in WvW I rarely see it. Things die too easily in WvW due to zergs for weakness to do much if anything, and PvE…how many monsters have you seen that give weakness? This sounds more like a nerf you want just for sPvP, but I warn you…without weakness like this, you’re probably going to see the zerker setup congregate back into sPvP and dominate there like it does everywhere else.

weakness is fine, leave it alone.

Pssst, hey, yeah you there! Do you want some stuff?

Weakness is the condition version of protection, AoE weakness is the group support version of AoE protection, usually it is given to proffesions which have no access to protection (thieves for example).

This thread smells of warrior and guardian tears, I like that smell, it is the smell of people eating some of their own medicine.

I hope weakness stays the way it is currently. If you dont cleanse at the right time you should be punished.

Ryld.1340:

I don’t play Zerker interestingly enough. And yes, Condition damage can stack up quickly with Bleed, Torment, Poison, Burning, and Confusion.

If you are getting all those conditions on you, and they stack up quickly, you shouldnt fight 2+ people at the same time.

Terrahero.9358:

Ryld.1340:

I don’t play Zerker interestingly enough. And yes, Condition damage can stack up quickly with Bleed, Torment, Poison, Burning, and Confusion.

If you are getting all those conditions on you, and they stack up quickly, you shouldnt fight 2+ people at the same time.

Well, I suppose he could be getting it all from a staff/Scepter-X Mesmer…