Guild Wars 2

Favoring the necromancer. Proof at the bottom of post.

(I’m top 50 engi on my main acc pm me for name if u care enough)

Necro reflects all my damage + has damaging hard CC + has a bigger hp pool + full condition cleanse that heals for number of conditions cleansed.

Add in the worst overall condition cleanse in the game on engineer (maaaaybe tied with mesmer but at least mesm gets a full cleanse with lyssa). And having to choose between viability(i.e. 2 kit)/some bad additional condi cleanse/stunbreaker doesnt make it any better.

Even in teamfights the necro is able to intentionally facetank condi aoe to reflect (especially burn from war/eng) – focusing the necro actually makes it somewhat harder on your team. Also in teamfight you can still get chainfeared to death very easily because even if you got a stunbreaker it has average 40 sek cd and youre definitely not bringing 2.

The matchup is so bad for condi engi that it makes the entire thing unviable because no team wants to play with a class that has such an insane hardcounter. Add in the fact that power engi has never been legit viable since it was nerfed through the ground in the early months after release and that leaves us with which build? ok nobody mention it – it makes me sad.

Proof:

Teldo losing to and whining about necromancer in soloq.
http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo/b/494776946

related matches at 1hour 33 minutes

IMO the problem is that this is on the table as an option: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

With that around I think they are worried about buffing eng’s overall cond removal.

Just a theory though.

a condi necro will almost always beat a condi class (p/d thief might be able to get away)
we are the masters of condition/boon manipulation.

Stuns, Interrupts and knockbacks…

Strange that people complain about THE condition class being the “best” condition class. I mean look at most of its utilities and weapon skills they involve…conditions. They are the “masters” of conditions but they CAN be beaten.

Maybe not by another condition class, but they can be beaten.

Any decent necro player will tell you that you should never lose to another condi class. Ask on the necro forums they will say the same thing. It has transfers no way a good necro should lose to any other condi class.

you lose and you ask for a buff ? maybe try other class ?

there is a long line here something that worse than engi ….. ranger ?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Power

umad?

It is definitely the hardest 1v1 counter that exists in the game, at equal skill levels. That’s for sure.

But you’re wrong in a lot of things. Like: saying that nobody wants to play with Engineers because Necros counter them. Condi Engineers are prospering in “coordinated” PvP more easily than Necros do, currently. When I say coordinated, I mean in encounters where teams do all of the things they need to do to counter the enemy’s composition. Letting a Necro free-rain on a point, or 1v1 your Condi-Engineer all day simply doesn’t happen. It’s a very well known counter. Don’t 1v1 it. Don’t leave it alone, and Necro is just an average tier profession in high level tPvP.

Also, like I just mentioned, focusing a Necro with the Warriors and Thieves on your team does not make it harder on your team, like you claim. Having your Engineer risk himself to point blank grenade a Necro is really risky, though. Because the Necro will pick you over the Warrior/Thief, and he will blow you up, and you can’t do a thing – so just stay away from it unless you’re REALLY at a numbers advantage.

I do feel that the way Necros apply conditions is at too fast a rate (you die in 4 seconds on an average vitality build). Also, as I’ve said before: Necros don’t communicate which abilities are being thrown at the target at all, leaving the victim the choice of either dying, or awkwardly random dodge rolling. The attack combo is just a mess of a dozen generic abilities.

But that’s just due to what’s viable for PvP Engineers – as you’ve referenced, Power Builds, Elixir C, Lyssa runes, high mobility, high evade frames, respectable condition removal would be great, but unfortunately they’re just not a part of any Engineer builds optimized for high level tPvP.

I agree, necros need better telegraphs.

Aberrant.6749:

I agree, necros need better telegraphs.

So that we are all on the same page, which abilities do you think need better telegraphs? Other than the difference between Mark of Blood, Chillblains, and Putrid Mark, (and the different wells) every necro skill is pretty well telegraphed and unique. The wells, you should respond to all of them the same anyway (leave the well), so that’s not really a valid concern.

I’ve often wondered if the sceptre could be made more interesting/balanced by reducing the bleeds applied by it’s autoattack, making the other skills on the weapon more visible/telegraphed, and adding additional bleeds to those instead to compensate. Ideally poison would be moved to a different skill as well, because it’s currently too easy and mindless to apply 3 different conditions (if traited for weakness) just with the autoattack.

This would make the condition application a bit more bursty, but also give enemies a chance to use active defences to avoid them. Burstier condition application would also make epidemic a bit more useful in various PvE situations… although it could also make condition bombing even stronger in SPVP.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

I agree, necros need better telegraphs.

So that we are all on the same page, which abilities do you think need better telegraphs? Other than the difference between Mark of Blood, Chillblains, and Putrid Mark, (and the different wells) every necro skill is pretty well telegraphed and unique. The wells, you should respond to all of them the same anyway (leave the well), so that’s not really a valid concern.

It’s not the fact that you can’t tell marks apart. It’s the fact that Necro Staff and Scepter are all non-projectile abilities that appear underneath you and instantly take effect (with the exception being Enfeebling Blood). Lots of really good suggestions have been submitted:

IE: Marks & Grasping Dead becoming instant cast, and have a .75s ‘inscribing time’ before they hit that area, letting the player know where and when the damage is coming, instead of letting the player know that information after it hits.

Right now, all the ‘wind-up’ on abilities is done internally on the Necro, represented by a generic looking cast. What needs to happen is for the ‘wind-up’ on Necro abilities to be represented externally, so players can understand where and when the nuke is coming, in order to time dodges.

I’m not gonna argue over how the Necro’s mechanics should change, in this thread, but the conceptual part is that in a character model based game, as opposed to a UI based game, there needs to be an adequate flow of information for intelligent exchanges during combat.

I am pretty sure that engies have a full condi clear (elexir c). And AR which is really good against any condi build.

icewyrm.5038:

I’ve often wondered if the sceptre could be made more interesting/balanced by reducing the bleeds applied by it’s autoattack, making the other skills on the weapon more visible/telegraphed, and adding additional bleeds to those instead to compensate. Ideally poison would be moved to a different skill as well, because it’s currently too easy and mindless to apply 3 different conditions (if traited for weakness) just with the autoattack.

Nobody uses Withering Precision. Especially since if you’re going 30 in Curses on a condition build, you just grab Lingering Curse instead (or Master of Corruption + Terror). Withering Precision is just terrible, not even worthy of adept level since the June patch.

@Chaith: Again, what skills are you referring to? The three marks all have unique (if incredibly similar) animations, though I do agree that which is being cast should be made more noticable. Grasping Dead, the necro does a huge point forward, and that is the only animation like that on a Scepter/X set.

I will grant you, for example, that Enfeebling Blood and Spinal Shivers have similar cast animations, but since they are impossible to use together without a weapon swap in between, that really shouldn’t matter.

Yeah and Power Necromancers are countered by a number of Power Specs 1v1.

Condition control is like the only unique thing Necro’s have going for them, lets not mess that up.

Chaith.8256:

It is definitely the hardest 1v1 counter that exists in the game, at equal skill levels. That’s for sure.

…..

Because the Necro (will pick you over the Warrior/Thief, and he) will blow you up, and you can’t do a thing – so just stay away from it unless you’re REALLY at a numbers advantage.

nuff said really…

AR doesnt cut it – i barely have enough traitpoints to be viable as dps against all the condition cleanse (especially in teamfights) already..

the fact that someone suggests i should get a grandmaster trait which is only really useful when combined with at least a block (actually even with block you might die anyway) or preferably elixir C (because otherwise a decent necro will just spike you down ) And which is only really required for this ONE situation where i have to 1v1 a necro and no one else is there. In teamfights its extremely easy for a power dps to kill a condi engi at 25% hp anyway.

^and i should get all that to counter this 1 class on this 1 occasion – really shows how bad the counter actually is when people are this desperate and pick traits this bad (i.e. you really dont need it against anyone else)