Guild Wars 2

Chill is a must-cleanse for an ele, as is weakness and confusion.

To fix the first problem, please make “stop, drop, and roll” an adept-tier trait.

Making cleansing fire not suck would help too.

BlackBeard.2873:

Chill is a must-cleanse for an ele, as is weakness and confusion.

To fix the first problem, please make “stop, drop, and roll” an adept-tier trait.

Making cleansing fire not suck would help too.

Agreed. “Stop, drop, and roll” is not on the same level as other Master traits. I think “Shards of Ice” should be reworked/replaced too.

Muchacho.2390:

Chill effects cooldowns of skills and eles “weapon swap mechanic” are essentially 4 skills.
So i am pretty sure it is intentional.

And by the way that is not the reason that eles are more likely to lose a fight then other professions…

Attunements are basically weapon swaps… It absolutely shouldn’t affect them… I don’t even play Ele at ALL. It’s a no brainer.

Yeah, I feel stupid for not knowing that Chill doesn’t affect weapon swap.

It needs to affect only our skill cooldowns, NOT our Attunement swap. With the abundance of Chill in PvP, this unfairly targets our profession mechanic. It means you have to blow your cleanses as soon as you see the Chill instead of saving them for Immoblizies, Confusion or Poison. It also directly makes an entire attribute stat bonus useless (Attunement Recharge Rate from Arcana) and paradoxically makes Arcana even that much more necessary (since you’re even more screwed if you have no Arcana investment and get Chiled), limiting build diversity.

If the devs want to keep this effect, they should extend it to every other profession. This means Warrior Burst skills, Mesmer Shatter skills, Ranger Pet commands, Necromancer Death Shroud, Thief Steal, and Engineer Toolbelt skills should be affected by Chill. Note that this STILL doesn’t affect them as badly as it does the Elementalist, so I’d much rather just see Chill not affect Attunement swap.

And another problem with Stop, Drop and Roll, besides the fact that it is a Master, Major trait, is that it is in Water Magic, a trait line that has so many good competing traits. Even if SDnR were to be an Adept trait, it’s hard to justify taking it over Cantrip Mastery (PvP) or Vital Striking (PvE.)

It’d be awesome if swapping Attunements removed specific conditions as an inherent bonus (Fire cleanses Chill, Air cleanses Immoblize, Water cleanses Burning, Earth cleanses Vulnerability.) I also think Cleansing Fire should always cleanse Chilled in addition to three other conditions, and could lose its AoE burn to compensate.

I’d love a dev’s input here.

I don’t care to drag other classes into this, I just want it fixed for us; no need to drag them down to our level.

I love and appreciate the non eles jumping in and speaking for us here. Thank you.

Additionally, it would be cool if there was an arcana trait (maybe merge with elemental attunement to make it worth it) that did the one conditional cleanse if you swap to that attunement. All your attunement/condi pairs make sense.

Mbelch.9028:

I don’t care to drag other classes into this, I just want it fixed for us; no need to drag them down to our level.

I love and appreciate the non eles jumping in and speaking for us here. Thank you.

Additionally, it would be cool if there was an arcana trait (maybe merge with elemental attunement to make it worth it) that did the one conditional cleanse if you swap to that attunement. All your attunement/condi pairs make sense.

I still like this idea.

Attune Fire = Cleanse Chill
Attune Water = Cleanse Burning
Attune Air = Cleanse Immobilize
Attune Earth = Cleanse Bleeding (This one was harder. Going for the stone approach.)

Earth might cleanse weakness instead?

This would be a good thread topic for this or the ele forums!

Just an FYI chill does affect our Death shroud CD

Mbelch.9028:

Simple. If you support it, voice it here.

Chill should NOT affect our weapon swap mechanic. This is an oversight and I don’t believe it was intentional.

As it is, all necros can best all eles because of this. I would almost say chill making our wep swap recharge slower kills us quicker than confusion, just in an indirect fashion.

As if necro is the one with the spamable chill and eles dont have diamond skin or escape options.
Next time separate your complaints from the classes you hate to the component that actually hinders you.
Keep the hate mongering to yourself.

Be careful what you ask for, making attunement swaps act like weapon swaps will most likely make them interrupt casts (just like weapon swaps do). If not, other classes will probably cry out because eles would get the good things of it being a usual swap without the downsides.

Another thing eventually worth mentioning is that attunement swaps, can proc more distinct effects/skills than weapon swaps on any other classes. Water attunement can become a healing/condition removal skill, earth attunement a slow/damage reduction skill, air attunement a damage/mobility skill and fire a (rather crappy) AoE damage skill.

It’s kind of complicated. Imo attunements are both – skills and weapon swap. Traited the swaps alone can become pretty strong skills which should be able to be counter played with the appropriate options, including chill.
On the other hand, I agree that it’s unfair that eles weapon-swap function of the attunements is also affected by skill cast counters.

Right now I’d say both options – treating attunement swaps like skills and treating them like weapon swaps – feel right in one way and wrong in the other.

grave of hearts.7830:

Mbelch.9028:

Simple. If you support it, voice it here.

Chill should NOT affect our weapon swap mechanic. This is an oversight and I don’t believe it was intentional.

As it is, all necros can best all eles because of this. I would almost say chill making our wep swap recharge slower kills us quicker than confusion, just in an indirect fashion.

As if necro is the one with the spamable chill and eles dont have diamond skin or escape options.
Next time separate your complaints from the classes you hate to the component that actually hinders you.
Keep the hate mongering to yourself.

It was an example, and with this upcoming patch, a large faction of people will be having chill on weapon swap, so think beyond the original post. I keep them short and sweet for a reason.

Oh, and keep your comments which add nothing but drivel to the topic to yourself.

Relax Mbelch, it’s just a knee-jerk post. Some just don’t read the thread in its entirety, governed by sense over reason.

I will have to say though that once Ele condition removal is reverted to its glory days that this buff (if it does indeed come) may well come back to haunt Elementalist in the form of complaints against it.

You can’t please everyone.

MonMalthias.4763:

Relax Mbelch, it’s just a knee-jerk post. Some just don’t read the thread in its entirety, governed by sense over reason.

I will have to say though that once Ele condition removal is reverted to its glory days that this buff (if it does indeed come) may well come back to haunt Elementalist in the form of complaints against it.

You can’t please everyone.

True story. But I’ll know who was with us at the time. I am a relatively dry person, so my posts don’t actually have much emotion in them even if they seem like they do. I’m sparing with my exclamation points, so that’s usually when you can see it. I just like to dish it back to people who don’t take time to read or think before they write.

I hope that day comes to pass. I’ll then defend eles, as yes, there’s no “happy” profession in this game. Everybody has to be in a state of nerf or buff. Upsetting really. Ele only needs a few small buffs to be the ideal class.

As an Ele player I have had chill determine a fight many times, sometimes cheaply and other times through a player timing it just right to add that couple seconds needed to my attunement swap. If Chill was handled the way that Immobilize was then maybe I would agree that it shouldn’t affect skill recharge since it then would be about being able to time it and land it. In the current state you can just hit us with it any time with chill and just work to keep it maxed.

So with that in mind, which change would you rather see? Chill be treated like Immobolize, all weapon-swaps prone to chill or Ele’s weapon swap not prone to chill?

I’d just like to see wep swapping ignore chill. I think it’s pretty fair.

Mbelch.9028:

I’d just like to see wep swapping ignore chill. I think it’s pretty fair.

I would prefer all wep swaps to be affected by chill. to keep it in line with ele attune swaps and Necro DS cd.

Brando.1374:

Mbelch.9028:

I’d just like to see wep swapping ignore chill. I think it’s pretty fair.

I would prefer all wep swaps to be affected by chill. to keep it in line with ele attune swaps and Necro DS cd.

Ele weapon swapping has nothing to do with necro death shrouding.

They’re not the same. The only thing that relates them is their location on the skill bars.

Attunements are weapon swaps. Each attunement is about half a normal weapon, so we have two weapon sets.

Yes, the logic can be made to extend weapon swap to chill, but I personally am on the other side of the fence.

I think with upcoming sigil changes, it is imperative to make this change to ele.

I’m curious what you think about attunement swaps canceling casts, Mbelch. Because if attunements become “real” weapon swaps, they’ll most likely become self-interrupts too.

IMO, chill kills eles because our auto-attacks (outside of air) are complete garbage. Thus if you get chilled, it puts all of your weapon-skills on longer cooldown and gives you more time that you have to be wasting with an autoattack. If you have to auto, you might as well /dance until you get the right CDs back.

How to rectify this:
1. Give us auto-attacks that aren’t terribad
2. Stop, drop, and roll at adept level. Cantrip mastery is good for cantrip builds (which can get cleanse that way, and vital striking is fine for all-in builds, but there is nothing worthwhile for other builds)

I agree Chill is OP.

Silinsar.6298:

I’m curious what you think about attunement swaps canceling casts, Mbelch. Because if attunements become “real” weapon swaps, they’ll most likely become self-interrupts too.

Elementalist skills usually have long casting/channeling time outside of Scepter Air Attunement. Elementalist playstyle is all about chaining your skills from different attunements to deal massive damage unlike most other classes that needs to click 1 button to deal massive damage.

If they make it cancel skills on swap, they might as well delete Elementalist from the game because it will prevent elementalists from chaining skills. Imagine a scepter elementalist cast Dragon’s Tooth or Phoenix. He has to wait for Dragon’s Tooth to hit or Phoenix to come back before he can do anything else which is absurd. Almost all elementalist skills have delayed effect (especially staff) and this will break the class completely.

To be honest I don’t understand why people are against removing the effect of chill on attunement swap. Attunement swapping doesn’t remove the effects of chill (unless you invest at least 20 trait points) which means your skills will still have higher cool down.

Hell even as a necro who loves his permachilling i fully agree, on the other hand i think that we all know a profession who might need to have their INITIATIVE to cleanse chill increased a bit since its immune to the effects of it.

Another note: the steal skill from Elementalists is Ice Shard Stab, which is 10 seconds of chill from a class that can only access the condition while fighting against Elementalists, and which is barely affected by the condition itself. Thieves are trouble enough for Elementalists without using this condition, and an out-of-nowhere immobilise immediately followed by a long chill is very serious shutdown (and costs 0 initiative once they’re in pre-combat stealth).

For those arguing that, since traited swapping of attunements can proc various effects, they should be counted as skills more than weapon swaps and so be affected by chill, here are some traits that proc on weapon swap:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versatile_Rage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versatile_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tail_Wind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Grip
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Pockets
Should Warriors who go into the Discipline tree have their weapon swaps affected by chill? What about Rangers who go into Skirmishing?

Weapon swaps shouldn’t be affected by chill, and attunements are the Elementalist’s weapon swap mechanic.

Kyon.9735:

Elementalist skills usually have long casting/channeling time outside of Scepter Air Attunement. Elementalist playstyle is all about chaining your skills from different attunements to deal massive damage unlike most other classes that needs to click 1 button to deal massive damage.

I’m aware of ele’s playstyle. It’s my second-most played character with over 400 hours playtime. Nothing spectacular but enough time to know how certain things work.

Kyon.9735:

If they make it cancel skills on swap, they might as well delete Elementalist from the game because it will prevent elementalists from chaining skills. Imagine a scepter elementalist cast Dragon’s Tooth or Phoenix. He has to wait for Dragon’s Tooth to hit or Phoenix to come back before he can do anything else which is absurd. Almost all elementalist skills have delayed effect (especially staff) and this will break the class completely.

You are mistaking something. Weapon swapping just cancels skills currently casting, it doesn’t make (delayed) effects of already casted skills disappear. You would be able to swap right after the cast of dragon’s tooth/phoenix is finished, not after the effects completed. Combos that would no longer be able to execute would include something like casting churning earth and then switching to air to get shock aura to stun attacking enemies. Or casting ER and switching to earth midcast for traited stability.

Kyon.9735:

To be honest I don’t understand why people are against removing the effect of chill on attunement swap. Attunement swapping doesn’t remove the effects of chill (unless you invest at least 20 trait points) which means your skills will still have higher cool down.

I’m not necessarily arguing against the removal of the chill effect on attunement swaps. I’m pointing out flaws / possible drawbacks and backfires of the argument “It’s a weapon swap, so it shouldn’t be affected by chill.” (simplified)

Imo, from a pure mechanical point of view, there are two options:

• It’s a weapon swap -> not effected by chill/conf, doesn’t trigger SoR, interrupts casts.
• It’s a instant skill of a profession mechanic that alternates your skillbar -> Allows seamless combos, “weapon swapping” (including activating certain effects) midcast and triggers SoR but is also affected by chill/confusion.

Anything else would be a special treatment of a skill/weapon swap.

If you want chill to not effect attunement swaps that’s a legit and probably reasonable request. However, don’t argue with how weapon swap on other professons work or that it is a bug/a mistake when you don’t want to have the drawbacks of an actual weapon swap. Call it what it would be: a buff and a quality of life enhancement for eles. Not being required because the mechanic is flawed/inconsistent but because chill is too strong against eles (to be discussed) from a balance-point of view.

As an ele I’d probably prefer keeping the mechanics as they are over being interrupted on attunement swap but not having chill effect it. In fact, my reason for posting here was the fear of ANet listening to the players (yes, I’m that optimistic) and making it act like a weapon swap without considering the drawbacks with one of them being cast interruption (yes, I’m that realistic).

cheese.4739:

For those arguing that, since traited swapping of attunements can proc various effects, they should be counted as skills more than weapon swaps and so be affected by chill, here are some traits that proc on weapon swap:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versatile_Rage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versatile_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tail_Wind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Grip
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Pockets
Should Warriors who go into the Discipline tree have their weapon swaps affected by chill? What about Rangers who go into Skirmishing?

In case you’re refering to my post:

I never said that other classes can’t proc effects on weapon swaps. I just think ele is better at it. Without fleshing it out further, the main difference probably is:

An ele can choose different swaps with different procs. They have the ability to activate what is the best in a given situation, maximizing the impact of different effects.

Classes with regular weapon swaps can only choose to proc or not to proc their weapon swap trait effect(s) by swapping weapons. It’s not choosing what is useful but evaluating if it’s useful. They are stuck with the given effects even if they don’t help them at all in their current situation.

I hope you see the difference.

cheese.4739:

Weapon swaps shouldn’t be affected by chill, and attunements are the Elementalist’s weapon swap mechanic.

It’s not as easy as that, see my post above.

Nex for ele balance team.

Silinsar.6298:

Be careful what you ask for, making attunement swaps act like weapon swaps will most likely make them interrupt casts (just like weapon swaps do). If not, other classes will probably cry out because eles would get the good things of it being a usual swap without the downsides.

Elementalists have their own downsides with attunements, though. For example, it is the only profession which is range-locked in combat.

Guys thanks for all the responses.

Silinsar.6298:

I’m curious what you think about attunement swaps canceling casts, Mbelch. Because if attunements become “real” weapon swaps, they’ll most likely become self-interrupts too.

I love that you brought this up. It’s very valid. I personally am in the camp that thinks the mechanic on how we swap weapons is fair. We have a higher cooldown than any other class, and we have more skills on an exponentially higher cooldown.

However on top of that, we’re plagued by chill. So yes while there are upsides and downsides, I think removing chill’s effect on our weapon swapping isn’t unfair while leaving things untouched.

I hope you understand my thought there. I’m tired so it may be fragmented. TL;DR We have enough drawbacks, IE already having the longest weapon swaps in the game, that removing chill but keeping our current weapon swap isn’t a case of unfair treatment, but balancing us vs other classes.

Andele.1306:

Hell even as a necro who loves his permachilling i fully agree, on the other hand i think that we all know a profession who might need to have their INITIATIVE to cleanse chill increased a bit since its immune to the effects of it.

Thank you very much. When a necro admits it isn’t justified you know it’s pretty bad.

ATMAvatar.5749:

Elementalists have their own downsides with attunements, though. For example, it is the only profession which is range-locked in combat.

This is also a great point. We are either ranged or melee, no inbetween. This is a huge downside we have to face.

Joseph.7213:

<voices support>

Nex for ele balance team.

Thanks lol. I feel like I have a decent grasp on eles. Been my only class I play for a long time.

The problem isn’t chill, it’s how absurdly long attument cooldowns are.

It used to be 16 seconds baseline, ANet brought it down to 13 seconds but I believe it should be more along the lines of 6-7 seconds in order for Ele core mechanic to start feeling USEFUL instead of a frustrating hindrance.

Silinsar.6298:

Kyon.9735:

If they make it cancel skills on swap, they might as well delete Elementalist from the game because it will prevent elementalists from chaining skills. Imagine a scepter elementalist cast Dragon’s Tooth or Phoenix. He has to wait for Dragon’s Tooth to hit or Phoenix to come back before he can do anything else which is absurd. Almost all elementalist skills have delayed effect (especially staff) and this will break the class completely.

You are mistaking something. Weapon swapping just cancels skills currently casting, it doesn’t make (delayed) effects of already casted skills disappear. You would be able to swap right after the cast of dragon’s tooth/phoenix is finished, not after the effects completed. Combos that would no longer be able to execute would include something like casting churning earth and then switching to air to get shock aura to stun attacking enemies. Or casting ER and switching to earth midcast for traited stability.

No, I don’t think I am. The main reason why Arcane Fury only lasts 2 seconds is that Elementalists should learn how to do the so called “Attunement Dance” and avoid staying in one single attunement for a very long time. After you cast meteor, you usually wait for it to finish to channel then cast Tornado for increased stats and critical chance OR you swap attunements so you get fury and prep for your next spell. Elementalists don’t usually stay in the same attunement to wait for a spell to finish channeling. A few of the most common examples for Dagger are Drake’s Breath and Cone of Cold and like you mentioned, Churning Earth.

Wintel.4873:

The problem isn’t chill, it’s how absurdly long attument cooldowns are.

It used to be 16 seconds baseline, ANet brought it down to 13 seconds but I believe it should be more along the lines of 6-7 seconds in order for Ele core mechanic to start feeling USEFUL instead of a frustrating hindrance.

I aggree on this one as well. Their skill have already their cooldown and their auto attacks are not that great, so why do they need such long cooldowns on attunement switches?

Tim.6450:

Wintel.4873:

The problem isn’t chill, it’s how absurdly long attument cooldowns are.

It used to be 16 seconds baseline, ANet brought it down to 13 seconds but I believe it should be more along the lines of 6-7 seconds in order for Ele core mechanic to start feeling USEFUL instead of a frustrating hindrance.

I aggree on this one as well. Their skill have already their cooldown and their auto attacks are not that great, so why do they need such long cooldowns on attunement switches?

Meh, I feel that 13 seconds is fine as a baseline attunement CD. Any less devalues Arcana as a trait line, and any more makes Arcana way too essential. (see: Elementalists pre-buff to Arcana reduction).

The problem remains that Autoattacks outside of Air and (sometimes) Fire are garbage, and Chill affecting Attunement swaps. Fix those and you’ve already addressed half of the niggling class issues with elementalist right now.

Taking the long view, one should also expect more condition removal outside of Water magic with each attunement doing it their own way, along with changes to Signets and Glyphs to make them actually useful utilities in their own right. But removing Chill’s influence on Elementalist’s Attunement swaps would be a good first step. With 20 weapon skills available at any time, most of which are on 30+ second cooldowns, Chill already affects Elementalist more strongly than other classes.

66% Cooldown increase is no joke when your most essential skills like Updraft or Earthquake for /Dagger; Blinding Surge, Gust, Burning Retreat and Unsteady Ground for Staff; and Obsidian Flesh and Magnetic Wave for /Focus could have their cooldowns increased markedly.

Chill in this context is already punishing enough; to have it lock Elementalist out of, say, Water for Healing or Air for Blinds/Interrupts for an extra 1.5-3 seconds is more significant than players that might not be familiar with Elementalist give credit to.

Malthias, quite a good point. I think I can confidently say our skills have the highest overall cooldowns and we don’t have any weapon specific 20% reductions.

I agree with the OP. Chill is too punitive to elementalists and not punitive enough to thieves.

It’s a condition that needs a balance pass.

I would greatly support this change. Chill is definitely a powerful condition and should be, but the way it impacts Elementalists is devastating.

It’s fairly clear that the profession design is meant to encourage shifting through attunements (based on individual skills’ long cooldowns, and the entire Arcane trait tree as previously mentioned). Having chill affect this basic profession mechanic hamstrings Elementalists in a manner not comparable to other classes.

Agreed. It’s interesting to me how it hampers eles so much, but thieves almost not at all.

None of their initiative skills have cooldowns and it doesn’t slow initiative regain, so it wouldn’t be game-breaking to also have it not affect our skill usage tool.

Note: thieves I didn’t make that point to gripe about you, but just to justify this change for us.

it should be so, the elements have too many advantages, escape and resistance.

zinavlad.7581:

it should be so, the elements have too many advantages, escape and resistance.

I’m not sure about this. Elementalists in PvP/WvW would be really survivable if this is true. Even if you switch attunements you will still have the effects of chill which already greatly hampers the long cooldown skills of elementalists outside of Scepter Air.

Kyon.9735:

zinavlad.7581:

it should be so, the elements have too many advantages, escape and resistance.

I’m not sure about this. Elementalists in PvP/WvW would be really survivable if this is true. Even if you switch attunements you will still have the effects of chill which already greatly hampers the long cooldown skills of elementalists outside of Scepter Air.

I agree with Kyon, but zinavlad, I’d foster the discussion. You say we are too survivable… But if that were true, we wouldn’t be receiving buffs. Buffs by the way which are in line with this discussion.

If we could have the change we’re asking for here, our cooldowns would be the same on our skills, we’d just have some small benefits through our attunement swapping mechanics. It isn’t a major buff. Just acceptable.

Was told to post this here.

Attunements are counted as skills, which is the reason chill affects them, something which is quite frustrating for many elementalists.

So if these are attunement based skills why aren’t the -20% attunement skill cd traits affecting the cd of attunements?

I’m not suggesting this would be smart balancing but it’s clearly overlooked and gives little justification for the situation of attunements with chill atm.

I do believe there will be some regrets however if attunements no longer count as skill casts. You must realise we would lose a large portion of healing from signet of restoration.

I don’t think it would be a large amount of healing lost. About 300 health every 8 seconds on average? I’d take it to lose the chill effect.

I asked you to post it here because wether you’re for or against the chill change, you added a great thought to the conversation.

I don’t think chill affects initiative for thieves, which is a bit weird… in light of something like this, it could be considered unfair to apply it to attunements. Or maybe this just means it should just apply to initiative as well.

Zuik.7158:

Was told to post this here.

Attunements are counted as skills, which is the reason chill affects them, something which is quite frustrating for many elementalists.

So if these are attunement based skills why aren’t the -20% attunement skill cd traits affecting the cd of attunements?

I’m not suggesting this would be smart balancing but it’s clearly overlooked and gives little justification for the situation of attunements with chill atm.

I do believe there will be some regrets however if attunements no longer count as skill casts. You must realise we would lose a large portion of healing from signet of restoration.

Oh, I /like/ this argument for “they’re our weapon swap mechanic, not individual skills”.

Getting the 20% reduced recharge on attunements themselves would be a significant buff to the not-currently-incredible Alacrity traits, but would mean they were skills and so affected by chills.
If we don’t get the 20% reduced recharge, the swaps must be weapon swaps, not spells tied to our weapon skills, and so shouldn’t be affected by chill.

cheese.4739:

Zuik.7158:

Was told to post this here.

Attunements are counted as skills, which is the reason chill affects them, something which is quite frustrating for many elementalists.

So if these are attunement based skills why aren’t the -20% attunement skill cd traits affecting the cd of attunements?

I’m not suggesting this would be smart balancing but it’s clearly overlooked and gives little justification for the situation of attunements with chill atm.

I do believe there will be some regrets however if attunements no longer count as skill casts. You must realise we would lose a large portion of healing from signet of restoration.

Oh, I /like/ this argument for “they’re our weapon swap mechanic, not individual skills”.

Getting the 20% reduced recharge on attunements themselves would be a significant buff to the not-currently-incredible Alacrity traits, but would mean they were skills and so affected by chills.
If we don’t get the 20% reduced recharge, the swaps must be weapon swaps, not spells tied to our weapon skills, and so shouldn’t be affected by chill.

See why I asked him to post it here? Super logical. Just like they’re putting a red circle on meteor shower to follow all other aoe, they need to change our swaps to follow suit with all other “skill usage mechanics/weapon swaps.”

Yamsandjams.3267:

I don’t think chill affects initiative for thieves, which is a bit weird… in light of something like this, it could be considered unfair to apply it to attunements. Or maybe this just means it should just apply to initiative as well.

This is correct. And I would prefer not to drag some other class (especially one so nerfed as thieves) down with us, so I’d like to pull ourselves up out of this mess.

Anet could we please get a response here?

I find it odd that no devs has commented on this yet.

As do I. I’m hoping we can keep this on the front page so come Monday they might comment.

I mean we have near unanimous consensus that something needs to change.

This is interesting. I’d say maybe the effect chill has on ele was an intentional counter to the large amount of abilities they have access to in the game. But if all these abilities have cooldowns that are crazy long, then such a counter seems unnecessary. Furthermore, have chill affect ene ele’s access to sigil effects seems really unfair. Therefore I, a necro/engi player, support your plight.

Shaogin.2679:

This is interesting. I’d say maybe the effect chill has on ele was an intentional counter to the large amount of abilities they have access to in the game. But if all these abilities have cooldowns that are crazy long, then such a counter seems unnecessary. Furthermore, have chill affect ene ele’s access to sigil effects seems really unfair. Therefore I, a necro/engi player, support your plight.

Thank you very much. I hadn’t honestly even thought about our sigils. You’re quite right.

I hope they also remove the chill effect on engie kits, even though it doesn’t hurt it much.

Please stop pretending Attunement is “just weapon swap for eles”. No other class can weapon swap between 20 different skills. No other class besides warrior can trigger any sort of effect on weapon swap. It’s F1-F4 skills and those skills are affected by chill. Should Engineer toolbelt skills also be immune to chill? No. And only necro has easy, reliable access to chill.

calavel.6249:

Please stop pretending Attunement is “just weapon swap for eles”. No other class can weapon swap between 20 different skills. No other class besides warrior can trigger any sort of effect on weapon swap. It’s F1-F4 skills and those skills are affected by chill. Should Engineer toolbelt skills also be immune to chill? No. And only necro has easy, reliable access to chill.

No one is pretending anything. Eles already have higher cooldowns BECAUSE they have more skills so chill affecting their weapon swap is not needed.

Ele swap effects need to be traited for so an untraited ele would gain no swap effects from attunements.
Also, every class can trigger effects from swap because of swap sigils. And even if you consider sigils an exception why should a warrior get effects on swap without having it be affected by chill while the ele gets kittened?

The fact that only necro has reliable access to chill makes the situation even worse because if the elementalist ever gets balanced well against other classes it won’t be balanced well against necro because of chill. You know, chill will make ele more difficult for Anet to balance.