[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Colt.9051

Colt.9051

This may have been talked about a few times before, but I’d like to say that being inflicted with the chill condition on an Elementalist is currently badly balanced right now.

Elementalists are the only class that has their “weapon swap” abilities get severely slowed down when chilled thus screwing us over from being able to do next to nothing if we have a long duration chill on us. I must ask that these attunement swaps be uneffected by a chill condition (any skills within that attunement are still affected accordingly of course) for at least more of a sem-balance for elementalists. thoughts?

Daeaera ~ Leader of Grape Justice! [FGJ]

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

I abused this in full force last night against a group of about 4-5 glass ele’s. Grenth runes with freeze nades and a ice sigil. I know how bad this screws over elementalist.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

the main problems with removing chill from attunement swaps are two:

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

2- unlike weapon swap, you have four bars, not two. so say you’re chilled halfway through your rotation. instead of going through the rotation as if the chill isn’t there and burning through attunement swaps, you’ll have to improvise to make up for the chill… or just cleanse it. there’s even a trait in water that makes it a non-issue. you can argue its worth over other traits, but if chill is as bad as you say, then maybe you should look into it.

if you’re hit by chill at the end of the rotation, and thus are stuck on one attunement for X seconds longer than usual, with half your spells on cooldown, congratulations, someone just outplayed you. it’s not like chills are super easy to come around (oddly enough, eles are the ones with the easiest access to it), so if someone landed a long chill on you when you were at your most vulnerable, that is someone playing well, and it shouldn’t be punished. it’s a counter to your class, and not even one that’s hard to cope with (any cleansing will do, unlike stunbreaking, and eles have an insane amount of cleanses, not to mention chill-specific cleanses).

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

(edited by BrunoBRS.5178)

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

Good points Bruno I mentioned stop drop and roll trait on the forums a few weeks back. I been running it on my elementalist it is a really good trait it’s not as general purpose as cleansing wave though.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: Velektrian.5491

Velektrian.5491

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

Warrior Versatile Rage (gain 5 strikes of adrenaline)
Warrior Fast Hands (cooldown reduced by 5 seconds)
Warrior Versatile Power (gain might for 10 seconds)
Ranger Tail Wind (gain swiftness)
Ranger Furious Grip (gain fury)
Thief Quick Pockets (gain 3 initiative)

Just because someone has “weapon swap” traits, don’t try to discount others as not having them. No to mention, the 3 classes mentioned above also have 2 extra sigils for on swap, Warrior being the biggest culprit.

80 Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger.
Coming soon: Warrior.

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

Wut about them poor thieves and their initiative based system, chill es the bane of their existence.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Zefrost.3425

Zefrost.3425

Boon removal and chill – Elementalist’s weakness.

It’s balanced.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

Warrior Versatile Rage (gain 5 strikes of adrenaline)
Warrior Fast Hands (cooldown reduced by 5 seconds)
Warrior Versatile Power (gain might for 10 seconds)
Ranger Tail Wind (gain swiftness)
Ranger Furious Grip (gain fury)
Thief Quick Pockets (gain 3 initiative)

Just because someone has “weapon swap” traits, don’t try to discount others as not having them. No to mention, the 3 classes mentioned above also have 2 extra sigils for on swap, Warrior being the biggest culprit.

you also get 3 swaps, where everyone gets one. and your effects are less “gain fury” (which eles also have!), and more “drop a lightning strike for a bunch of damage, plus fury and swiftness” and “cleanse conditions, heal, apply regen and (again) fury” (to name two that you can find on popular builds). hell, you can trait to get freaking stability on attunement swap, which is a much bigger deal than 5 strikes of adrenaline ever will be. and sigil variety is a compromise you make for having twice as many weapon skills available to you. it’s easy to complain you don’t get 4 sigils like everyone else until you realize that not everyone can bring control, damage, AoE, and support all in one set *cough*D/D*cough*. it’s a price you pay.

as for the whole “thief is immune to chill”, as a thief main, i do think chill should have an effect on ini regen. maybe not slow it has hard as it slows skill recharges, but for the sake of parity, everyone’s weapon cooldowns should be affected. it’s not like thief is lacking in chill removal either. but that discussion is for another thread.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Velektrian.5491

Velektrian.5491

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

Warrior Versatile Rage (gain 5 strikes of adrenaline)
Warrior Fast Hands (cooldown reduced by 5 seconds)
Warrior Versatile Power (gain might for 10 seconds)
Ranger Tail Wind (gain swiftness)
Ranger Furious Grip (gain fury)
Thief Quick Pockets (gain 3 initiative)

Just because someone has “weapon swap” traits, don’t try to discount others as not having them. No to mention, the 3 classes mentioned above also have 2 extra sigils for on swap, Warrior being the biggest culprit.

you also get 3 swaps, where everyone gets one. and your effects are less “gain fury” (which eles also have!), and more “drop a lightning strike for a bunch of damage, plus fury and swiftness” and “cleanse conditions, heal, apply regen and (again) fury” (to name two that you can find on popular builds). hell, you can trait to get freaking stability on attunement swap, which is a much bigger deal than 5 strikes of adrenaline ever will be. and sigil variety is a compromise you make for having twice as many weapon skills available to you. it’s easy to complain you don’t get 4 sigils like everyone else until you realize that not everyone can bring control, damage, AoE, and support all in one set *cough*D/D*cough*. it’s a price you pay.

as for the whole “thief is immune to chill”, as a thief main, i do think chill should have an effect on ini regen. maybe not slow it has hard as it slows skill recharges, but for the sake of parity, everyone’s weapon cooldowns should be affected. it’s not like thief is lacking in chill removal either. but that discussion is for another thread.

A warrior with the Fast Hands trait can proc 2 sigils every 5 seconds, 4 different ones on rotation every ten. He could in effect get 4 Might, 50% endurance, 3 attacks 100% crit and damage and chill a foe, every 10 seconds.

An Elementalist is Still limited to 2 sigils, on 10 seconds, And 2-3 effects. Roughly the same as a warrior, with a much larger trait investment (considering they have to do 20 in each line they want a bonus in with at least 20 in arcana for the boons)

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

80 Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger.
Coming soon: Warrior.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Swim.6830

Swim.6830

the main problems with removing chill from attunement swaps are two:

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

2- unlike weapon swap, you have four bars, not two. so say you’re chilled halfway through your rotation. instead of going through the rotation as if the chill isn’t there and burning through attunement swaps, you’ll have to improvise to make up for the chill… or just cleanse it. there’s even a trait in water that makes it a non-issue. you can argue its worth over other traits, but if chill is as bad as you say, then maybe you should look into it.

if you’re hit by chill at the end of the rotation, and thus are stuck on one attunement for X seconds longer than usual, with half your spells on cooldown, congratulations, someone just outplayed you. it’s not like chills are super easy to come around (oddly enough, eles are the ones with the easiest access to it), so if someone landed a long chill on you when you were at your most vulnerable, that is someone playing well, and it shouldn’t be punished. it’s a counter to your class, and not even one that’s hard to cope with (any cleansing will do, unlike stunbreaking, and eles have an insane amount of cleanses, not to mention chill-specific cleanses).

Says the person maining a class unaffected by chill…

One condition should not be able to outplay a whole class, sorry.

Zwim Elementalist
Consigliere
The Dragoon Brotherhood

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

Since chill effects Ele’s I don’t really see why thieves are immune.

It should slow initiative regen, plain and simple.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: lunyboy.8672

lunyboy.8672

Boon removal and chill – Elementalist’s weakness.

It’s balanced.

You mean on the profession with the lowest health pool in the lightest armor and access to just one weapon set in combat?

Seems like more than just a little weakness, especially in comparison to some classes.

Miss Fisthammer – Engineer | Urgard Fistorsen – Guardian
Physti – Elementalist | Fistful of Blades – Thief
[WHIP] Quaggan Slavers – HoD

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

You mean on the profession with the lowest health pool in the lightest armor and access to just one weapon set in combat?

Seems like more than just a little weakness, especially in comparison to some classes.

Yes well, look at my Mesmer. No Hammer, no AE stun, no reliable access to Chill, no proper rezz skill, no nothing.

Hey, I can just list weaknesses, too! Wasn’t even that difficult!

(Also, class comparisons on any scale smaller than “entire class” rarely make sense, as context is important. We’re playing a RPG, if classes were not of different strength in different situations, the whole underlying model would be broken.)

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Salocin.2783

Salocin.2783

The fact people are actually defending this mechanic makes me nauseous.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

The fact people are actually defending this mechanic makes me nauseous.

Maybe it’s just that people don’t see the big deal compared to actually important things left to change? (I’m not criticizing you, just an idea why people react that way)

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Velektrian.5491

Velektrian.5491

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Right…

Lets say someone Smacks you full of conditions so you switch to water, Cast a cantrip or two, dodge roll and heal/remove those conditions. You would then like to deal some damage, switch to air.

The Opponent then smacks you with chill out the Wazoo and now you can’t switch back to water for about 16 seconds because of chill to remove any other condition he is likely to apply. All somone has to do to beat an ele is cover Chill with other Conditions.

As an Ele V Chill scenario this is common against any serious Condi build (Especially Necro and Engi). If most of an Ele’s condi cleanse comes from water attunement, then against any proper Condi Bunker, you will have a hard time keeping up with chill if you switch out of water to attack. And don’t say attck in Water because LOL.

Chill Is a Hard counter to an Ele. Well… Any Ele who doesn’t build to remove 10 Conditions every ten seconds, but lets face it, with removing that many conditions you ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN THE FIGHT. Which is the same thing as, You Lose.

ps. LOL at Trident. Ele underwater hits about as hard as a rabbit in this game.

80 Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger.
Coming soon: Warrior.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Right…

Lets say someone Smacks you full of conditions so you switch to water, Cast a cantrip or two, dodge roll and heal/remove those conditions. You would then like to deal some damage, switch to air.

The Opponent then smacks you with chill out the Wazoo and now you can’t switch back to water for about 16 seconds because of chill to remove any other condition he is likely to apply. All somone has to do to beat an ele is cover Chill with other Conditions.

As an Ele V Chill scenario this is common against any serious Condi build (Especially Necro and Engi). If most of an Ele’s condi cleanse comes from water attunement, then against any proper Condi Bunker, you will have a hard time keeping up with chill if you switch out of water to attack. And don’t say attck in Water because LOL.

Chill Is a Hard counter to an Ele. Well… Any Ele who doesn’t build to remove 10 Conditions every ten seconds, but lets face it, with removing that many conditions you ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN THE FIGHT. Which is the same thing as, You Lose.

ps. LOL at Trident. Ele underwater hits about as hard as a rabbit in this game.

so what you want is the ability to ignore chill as a condition after cleansing from swapping into water, while not speccing into condi cleanse.

would you like anything more? maybe AoE knockdown on attunement swap? make diamond skin a default ele feature?

you described a scenario where someone was smarter than you. they baited your cleanse, then applied the chill. deal with it.

@PS – he meant water trident, scepter #3 skill. you can now apply regen with it, which means you have good cleansing even on freaking scepter, if you choose to.

if condis are too much for you to deal with, then spec into some condi defense instead of asking for a free pass. a “hard counter” implies there’s nothing you can do about it. that’s incorrect. there’s nothing you want to do about it. plenty of options to deal with chill have been offered.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

Warrior Versatile Rage (gain 5 strikes of adrenaline)
Warrior Fast Hands (cooldown reduced by 5 seconds)
Warrior Versatile Power (gain might for 10 seconds)
Ranger Tail Wind (gain swiftness)
Ranger Furious Grip (gain fury)
Thief Quick Pockets (gain 3 initiative)

Just because someone has “weapon swap” traits, don’t try to discount others as not having them. No to mention, the 3 classes mentioned above also have 2 extra sigils for on swap, Warrior being the biggest culprit.

you also get 3 swaps, where everyone gets one. and your effects are less “gain fury” (which eles also have!), and more “drop a lightning strike for a bunch of damage, plus fury and swiftness” and “cleanse conditions, heal, apply regen and (again) fury” (to name two that you can find on popular builds). hell, you can trait to get freaking stability on attunement swap, which is a much bigger deal than 5 strikes of adrenaline ever will be. and sigil variety is a compromise you make for having twice as many weapon skills available to you. it’s easy to complain you don’t get 4 sigils like everyone else until you realize that not everyone can bring control, damage, AoE, and support all in one set *cough*D/D*cough*. it’s a price you pay.

as for the whole “thief is immune to chill”, as a thief main, i do think chill should have an effect on ini regen. maybe not slow it has hard as it slows skill recharges, but for the sake of parity, everyone’s weapon cooldowns should be affected. it’s not like thief is lacking in chill removal either. but that discussion is for another thread.

A warrior with the Fast Hands trait can proc 2 sigils every 5 seconds, 4 different ones on rotation every ten. He could in effect get 4 Might, 50% endurance, 3 attacks 100% crit and damage and chill a foe, every 10 seconds.

An Elementalist is Still limited to 2 sigils, on 10 seconds, And 2-3 effects. Roughly the same as a warrior, with a much larger trait investment (considering they have to do 20 in each line they want a bonus in with at least 20 in arcana for the boons)

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

that’s a build option. and not a particularly good one either (“burst on-swap”?).

let me reverse this scenario:

had an ele 4 sigil slots instead of two, like you want, they’d be able to proc four sigil effects at once. four on swap sigils, or four on-crit sigils, or any combination that ends up in double the on-swap effects as everyone else, on top of all the ones eles naturally get just by traiting.

do you think an ele should be able to trigger energy and battle every 10 seconds on top of having access to air and fire sigils at all times, especially when any ele spec will have at least the trait that gives fury on attunement swap? can you honestly look at this scenario and say “yeah, this is fair”?

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: Velektrian.5491

Velektrian.5491

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Right…

Lets say someone Smacks you full of conditions so you switch to water, Cast a cantrip or two, dodge roll and heal/remove those conditions. You would then like to deal some damage, switch to air.

The Opponent then smacks you with chill out the Wazoo and now you can’t switch back to water for about 16 seconds because of chill to remove any other condition he is likely to apply. All somone has to do to beat an ele is cover Chill with other Conditions.

As an Ele V Chill scenario this is common against any serious Condi build (Especially Necro and Engi). If most of an Ele’s condi cleanse comes from water attunement, then against any proper Condi Bunker, you will have a hard time keeping up with chill if you switch out of water to attack. And don’t say attck in Water because LOL.

Chill Is a Hard counter to an Ele. Well… Any Ele who doesn’t build to remove 10 Conditions every ten seconds, but lets face it, with removing that many conditions you ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN THE FIGHT. Which is the same thing as, You Lose.

ps. LOL at Trident. Ele underwater hits about as hard as a rabbit in this game.

so what you want is the ability to ignore chill as a condition after cleansing from swapping into water, while not speccing into condi cleanse.

would you like anything more? maybe AoE knockdown on attunement swap? make diamond skin a default ele feature?

you described a scenario where someone was smarter than you. they baited your cleanse, then applied the chill. deal with it.

@PS – he meant water trident, scepter #3 skill. you can now apply regen with it, which means you have good cleansing even on freaking scepter, if you choose to.

if condis are too much for you to deal with, then spec into some condi defense instead of asking for a free pass. a “hard counter” implies there’s nothing you can do about it. that’s incorrect. there’s nothing you want to do about it. plenty of options to deal with chill have been offered.

All Any Ele wants is for Chill not to affect Attunement swapping. Like every other classes weapon swaps. That is it.

80 Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger.
Coming soon: Warrior.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

Either way, It is either the Warrior who is too OP V Chill (but with dogged march, Cleansing Ire, Melandru and Lemongrass LOL) or an Elementalist who gets royally screwed and completely HARD COUNTERED by one condition. There should be no Hard counters in this game. Hard counters take the fun away, soft counters are fine.

But an ele doesnt get hard countered by this..

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them.

Also I love how you list things like lemon grass and melandru like they are warrior exclusive.

Outside of cleansing Ire, and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Right…

Lets say someone Smacks you full of conditions so you switch to water, Cast a cantrip or two, dodge roll and heal/remove those conditions. You would then like to deal some damage, switch to air.

The Opponent then smacks you with chill out the Wazoo and now you can’t switch back to water for about 16 seconds because of chill to remove any other condition he is likely to apply. All somone has to do to beat an ele is cover Chill with other Conditions.

As an Ele V Chill scenario this is common against any serious Condi build (Especially Necro and Engi). If most of an Ele’s condi cleanse comes from water attunement, then against any proper Condi Bunker, you will have a hard time keeping up with chill if you switch out of water to attack. And don’t say attck in Water because LOL.

Chill Is a Hard counter to an Ele. Well… Any Ele who doesn’t build to remove 10 Conditions every ten seconds, but lets face it, with removing that many conditions you ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING IN THE FIGHT. Which is the same thing as, You Lose.

ps. LOL at Trident. Ele underwater hits about as hard as a rabbit in this game.

water trident is a skill on scepter….
going with a scepter/dagger setup

you have more than just water to remove conditions.

Lets say you go with a dagger/focus setup

You also have more than just water to remove conditions

But lets say you go with a pure D/D

and you get hit with signet of spite.

you go into water remove two, use cleansing wave -remove one, dodge roll -remove another, then use your cantrip- that’s another three

that is 7 conditions.
fighting a necro-
unless you panic and seeing as how you have a problem with conditions in the first place, you will, you are going to blow ether renewal and heal into the necro so you can switch into fire to do damage.
Your are going to run into his marks
then get fear chained
then take a bunch of bleeding

At that point, going into water isnt going to save you
because you got outplayed
You panicked and blew all of your condition removal
You decided that you needed to do damage instead of CC and control the fight
You ran into necro marks and red circles.

Secondly if they hit you with chill immediately after you get out of water and you blow all of your condi removal-
chances are switching attunements is not going to save you from the mother load of conditions they are going to throw on you because you panic’d

you got outplayed.
That’s the scenerio you just gave me.

When you blow all of your condition removal at once and dont anticipate the " hey he just switched to staff" then that is your own fault you just got fear ping ponged into oblivion.

chill wont matter when you get filled with conditions.
It’s right up there with saying immobilize killed you because they applied it when you blew all of your condi removal at once and sat in red circles

You take the tools that you need and you use them when you need them.

2 stacks of bleeding isnt bad- 9 stacks is
Why would you blow your removal on 2 stacks?

Your heal removes conditions per pulse-
Why are you blowing it on an auto attack.

This necromancer is in death shroud
why are you sitting in fire instead of lightning with shocking aura up?

Go watch the ToL-
that ele knew what he was doing, you need to take a page from his book and ask people for his build


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Oakwind.6187

Oakwind.6187

If there is no option to outplay bursters – like Thieves and Elementalists – with Chill, then you’ll be back tomorrow complaining that there are condibunkers everywhere. Every time I see a Thief or an Elementalist dodge the freezing nades, I know I need to get away and fast, because there’s little recourse left, and less still if I duke it out.

Short of CC (which is counterable by the popular Elementalist builds), there’s little option for Chill-users than to mess up with the rotations.

I play Engineer.
Balthazar runes are broken.

(edited by Oakwind.6187)

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Velektrian.5491

Velektrian.5491

If there is no option to outplay bursters – like Thieves and Elementalists – with Chill, then you’ll be back tomorrow complaining that there are condibunkers everywhere. Every time I see a Thief or an Elementalist dodge the freezing nades, I know I need to get away and fast, because there’s little recourse left, and less still if I duke it out.

Short of CC (which is counterable by the popular Elementalist builds), there’s little option for Chill-users than to mess up with the rotations.

Funny thing is, you could just as easily Cripple a thief, considering they don’t feel anything from the cooldown increase. This is two ends of a spectrum.

A thief pretty much ignores Half of this condition.
An Ele Gets it worse than any other profession.
Eles feel Chill more than Mesmer’s, who also get really hurt because of clone generation. but that is fine, as they are abilities and not “weapon swaps”

80 Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger.
Coming soon: Warrior.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Oakwind.6187

Oakwind.6187

Thieves get screwed over by Chill just as anybody else. Even if you have Initiative, you might not be able to use crucial abilities and die. Most of the easily applied Chills are only 2-3 seconds, and interrupt your routine. What’s the problem really? It slows down your ability to burst, makes you prone to mistakes and can be used to sabotage your attempts to survive. Same goes for Thieves and everyone else. Elementalists are like freight trains; if you don’t derail them at the right spot, you’re going to get run over.

I play Engineer.
Balthazar runes are broken.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

in Profession Balance

Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

Chill should not affect attunements, or at least not as much, and give recharges to thief weapon skills: +0.5 seconds per initiative cost.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Axialbloom.8109

Axialbloom.8109

Thieves get screwed over by Chill just as anybody else. Even if you have Initiative, you might not be able to use crucial abilities and die. Most of the easily applied Chills are only 2-3 seconds, and interrupt your routine. What’s the problem really? It slows down your ability to burst, makes you prone to mistakes and can be used to sabotage your attempts to survive. Same goes for Thieves and everyone else. Elementalists are like freight trains; if you don’t derail them at the right spot, you’re going to get run over.

Bizarro world?

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Thieves get screwed over by Chill just as anybody else. Even if you have Initiative, you might not be able to use crucial abilities and die. Most of the easily applied Chills are only 2-3 seconds, and interrupt your routine. What’s the problem really? It slows down your ability to burst, makes you prone to mistakes and can be used to sabotage your attempts to survive. Same goes for Thieves and everyone else. Elementalists are like freight trains; if you don’t derail them at the right spot, you’re going to get run over.

Not on their weapon skills, at all. Chill has zero effect on cast times, if that is the source of this.
Frankly I have no problem with chill being effective on elementalists, but real counterplay doesn’t come from “oh it’s an elementalist? Here, let me apply chill once or twice, they’re now instantly ineffective”. Elementalists are built entirely around having access to multiple attunements more than people who main other classes can understand, mostly because our skills are artificially weakened to compensate for the greater number, but also because individual attunements are generally more focused than actual weaponsets. Think of it as if there was a condition that made clones disappear after three seconds, or adrenaline drain rapidly, or reducing all stealth durations. Obviously, you could “just cleanse” those as well. Chill affecting attunement swapping is on that level, where you literally reduce counterplay to “apply a single condition, then they’re just kitten”.
I’m pretty sure you aren’t going to argue that this would make eles OP or uncounterable, because that would be stupid.

[PvX] Chill on Elementalists need a fixing.

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Posted by: Oakwind.6187

Oakwind.6187

I generally participate in these discussions to learn stuff since I have no time to play all professions. I appreciate the time you took to write your reasoning. I did have to try an elementalist out to really understand it.

I sort of understand now – and was corrected with Thieves – with your point, but don’t want to agree or disagree because of my lack of experience. Someone experienced could take the time to write and expand on some scenarios where Chill affected attunement swapping and where it didn’t. It’d make for a better argument and would make non-Elementalist players understand.

I play Engineer.
Balthazar runes are broken.