Guild Wars 2

I think we’ve got some issues to address.

There were some great things in the patch, meh changes but don’t forget the changes that break the hearts of people who appreciate this game.

What am I talking about? Well of course, I’m talking about the Torment changes. This change has put both PU and non PU builds which rely on full condition builds, aka defensive and condition stats. Yes, this change even makes viable the full condition Mesmer which doesn’t NEEED to abuse PU. PU helps it take the cake though.

We tested this build, folks. It overpowers meta ele, necro, warrior… Wait yes, it overpowers everything in a 1v1. And to you people saying “oh meh gewd. 1v1 no skill. Mech wew. Sech cemplen.” Think about the other things that this new condition spamming class can do. It can transfer and steal boons like like liquid, solo survive outside of stealth and overpower all forms of condition removal.

There’s my peace on our issue number one. There’s more. Yes there’s more.

Folks, who rejoiced at the nerf of PU? I know I did. It was supposed to be watered down but not rendered ineffective. The change didn’t work. We tested this, and yes, this just in, perma protection, everfrequent blocks and the like were still available. But thats not all… This similarly effective post “nerf” PU stinks even more because it is actually just new and improved. Tack on swiftness and might to your perma protection, and you’ve literally just stuck your sword in 1v1ers.

I’m sure there’s others who don’t appreciate this type of balance. Make yourselves heard.

I agree, the 6/6/6/6/6 build is really stronk. Quick, let’s go nerf leveling so we don’t see as many Mesmers.

Esplen.3940:

I agree, the 6/6/6/6/6 build is really stronk. Quick, let’s go nerf leveling so we don’t see as many Mesmers.

Sarcastic reply is sarcastic. I’d give you maybe 6/10 for effort. Come back with substance. I believe your sarcasm might reach 8/10.

let’s be real here, you don’t need 6/6/6/6/6 to spam conditions on mes. Actually respond with something contructive. Oh wait, you’re probably one of those guys who whined until mesmer received the scepter torment.

The torment is pretty weak/unnoticeable on regular builds.

However, on 4/4/6/0/0 with condition duration runes where the mesmer’s bonus condi duration can get close to 50 in spvp and 100 in wvw, the torment spam from scepter 1/clones is quite noticeable.
This is not the same as simply dealing extra condition damage through the addition of a “regular condition” like bleed/burn to a skill that previously didnt have it, because torment is a unique condition that is rarely otherwise found, so it’s actually VERY unique condition.

Due to this, the ability for all the other conditions to stick just increased exponentially, increasing the effective battle power of a build where the torment can last sufficiently long by much more than what may have been expected.

Also, this is made worse by a discover i just made of a new Torch4 bug – Another skill commonly utilized on the Scepter-Torch staff condition build.
Since today’s patch, if the stealth is interrupted (I.e. the blind from Torch4 initial stealth hits an ele in Lightning Aura), the Torch4 skill goes on a short 3s cooldown because it thinks it did not go off and was interrupted, however, the stealth actually does happen. So after stealthing from torch4, the mesmer can use torch4 immediately again in this scenario.
This doesn’t seem easy to abuse, but just putting it out there.

-Review the scepter torment change
-Fix torch potential permastealth exploit immediately

Does the change to scepter torment change how the standard mesmer shatter STILL gets countered by half the builds out there? No. Please start buffing the mesmer in the correct areas. The Condition build did not need to be buffed.

I agree Mcbelch. The cheese has mutated into pancreatic cancer and we need moar chemoQQ noaaaoooow!

if you want to keep crying about 4-5 torment stacks (from spamming only a bad AA), i’ll let ya.

way better stuff was given to condi mesmer.

Mbelch.9028:

I think we’ve got some issues to address.

What am I talking about? Well of course, I’m talking about the Torment changes. This change has put both PU and non PU builds which rely on full condition builds, aka defensive and condition stats. Yes, this change even makes viable the full condition Mesmer which doesn’t NEEED to abuse PU. PU helps it take the cake though.

PU gets more dps out of Staff clones utilizing IE than dropping 3 Scepter clones. If you have 3 Scepter clones out, you have a constant buffer of Torment, yes, but you have no other application of conditions unless you yourself are on a different weapon (namely Staff, which doesn’t apply conditions that fast). If you are using the Scepter3 + Block combo to apply conditions, it doesn’t maintain 100% uptime and is really more of a condition burst due to all of the restraints on it’s use. Again, the buffer only helps for a few seconds here.

We tested this build, folks. It overpowers meta ele, necro, warrior… Wait yes, it overpowers everything in a 1v1. And to you people saying “oh meh gewd. 1v1 no skill. Mech wew. Sech cemplen.” Think about the other things that this new condition spamming class can do. It can transfer and steal boons like like liquid, solo survive outside of stealth and overpower all forms of condition removal.

I agree, Mesmer should get balanced around 1v1’s. Because this hasn’t ruined Mesmers at all…

Oh and Mesmers aren’t going to be transferring and stealing boons like liquid. We have one boon steal and one boon transfer (and now one boon copy). All of these are on high cooldowns, even while traited, making them unfeasible in most scenario’s (Mimic can be useful against a boon-spammer but got hit partially by the Light Aura snipe).

There’s my peace on our issue number one. There’s more. Yes there’s more.

Folks, who rejoiced at the nerf of PU? I know I did. It was supposed to be watered down but not rendered ineffective. The change didn’t work. We tested this, and yes, this just in, perma protection, everfrequent blocks and the like were still available. But thats not all… This similarly effective post “nerf” PU stinks even more because it is actually just new and improved. Tack on swiftness and might to your perma protection, and you’ve literally just stuck your sword in 1v1ers.

Yes! Finally! Someone who understands just how strong 5 seconds of Might every 1 second is. At best, we have 5 stacks of Might after being in Stealth for 5 seconds, oh wait no, make that 4 stacks. Nope, 3… nope 2… oh, we don’t have any Might. Oh, we also didn’t get any Prot or Aegis. Yay.

Oh man, that 3s of Swiftness sure helped me outrun all of those leaps and teleports. Yehp, made me a lot stronger than Protection and Aegis ever could.

I’m sure there’s others who don’t appreciate this type of balance. Make yourselves heard.

Have fun with your tested 6/6/6/6/6 build. I hear it’ll get nerfed in 2029.

Esplen.3940:

Mbelch.9028:

I think we’ve got some issues to address.

What am I talking about? Well of course, I’m talking about the Torment changes. This change has put both PU and non PU builds which rely on full condition builds, aka defensive and condition stats. Yes, this change even makes viable the full condition Mesmer which doesn’t NEEED to abuse PU. PU helps it take the cake though.

PU gets more dps out of Staff clones utilizing IE than dropping 3 Scepter clones. If you have 3 Scepter clones out, you have a constant buffer of Torment, yes, but you have no other application of conditions unless you yourself are on a different weapon (namely Staff, which doesn’t apply conditions that fast). If you are using the Scepter3 + Block combo to apply conditions, it doesn’t maintain 100% uptime and is really more of a condition burst due to all of the restraints on it’s use. Again, the buffer only helps for a few seconds here.

We tested this build, folks. It overpowers meta ele, necro, warrior… Wait yes, it overpowers everything in a 1v1. And to you people saying “oh meh gewd. 1v1 no skill. Mech wew. Sech cemplen.” Think about the other things that this new condition spamming class can do. It can transfer and steal boons like like liquid, solo survive outside of stealth and overpower all forms of condition removal.

I agree, Mesmer should get balanced around 1v1’s. Because this hasn’t ruined Mesmers at all…

Oh and Mesmers aren’t going to be transferring and stealing boons like liquid. We have one boon steal and one boon transfer (and now one boon copy). All of these are on high cooldowns, even while traited, making them unfeasible in most scenario’s (Mimic can be useful against a boon-spammer but got hit partially by the Light Aura snipe).

There’s my peace on our issue number one. There’s more. Yes there’s more.

Folks, who rejoiced at the nerf of PU? I know I did. It was supposed to be watered down but not rendered ineffective. The change didn’t work. We tested this, and yes, this just in, perma protection, everfrequent blocks and the like were still available. But thats not all… This similarly effective post “nerf” PU stinks even more because it is actually just new and improved. Tack on swiftness and might to your perma protection, and you’ve literally just stuck your sword in 1v1ers.

Yes! Finally! Someone who understands just how strong 5 seconds of Might every 1 second is. At best, we have 5 stacks of Might after being in Stealth for 5 seconds, oh wait no, make that 4 stacks. Nope, 3… nope 2… oh, we don’t have any Might. Oh, we also didn’t get any Prot or Aegis. Yay.

Oh man, that 3s of Swiftness sure helped me outrun all of those leaps and teleports. Yehp, made me a lot stronger than Protection and Aegis ever could.

I’m sure there’s others who don’t appreciate this type of balance. Make yourselves heard.

Have fun with your tested 6/6/6/6/6 build. I hear it’ll get nerfed in 2029.

There you go. Here’s your 8/10 post reward for being extra salty.

Anyways thanks for the substance, but it’s clear you’re enjoying the buffs.

To others out there, the cover condis are real. Pure condition builds need only go 4/4/6 to be beast mode condition tanks. The torment sits at 6-12 stacks permanently while you suffer from bleeding, vulnerability, poison, burning and don’t forget: if you try to CC the Mesmer, you also get a healthy dose of fear.

Anybody with a brain knows that’s not 6/6/6/6/6 that’s just a prepatch condi build which is out of control now.

Think about how hard the torment was to deal with before from the scepter block. If you didn’t dodge it, which was quite possible, that 5 stacks of torment could literally down you. Think about how difficult it is to permanently deal with at least 5-6 stacks.

No class has the condi clears for this. Yes, classes can be balanced by 1v1. Look at warrior adrenaline nerf and ele FGS nerf.

If you can’t be logical rather than salty, you can move on.

The spec in question is older than the dinosaurs and it isn’t even the strongest belonging to Mesmer, let alone anything else. You sound like you need to get off the rag already.

MLGKorno.5419:

-Fix torch potential permastealth exploit immediately

This is a bug that existed way back when they first changed the prestige to its current functionality. It was really broken and was hotfixed within a couple of days. I just spent a few minutes trying to replicate it and was 100% unable to do so. I’d love to see a video of you managing it.

Off the rag? That’s not in my vernacular.

This spec is old, but how does that change how much it just got buffed by? I get the feeling you haven’t tested it like we have yet. Give it a couple days, people will see how bad it is.

It doesn’t change anything because setups that would generally lose to a bunker Mesmer will still lose regardless of what they do to scepter — this has been the case since before scepter #2 was even a condition proc. Not to mention this one in specific accomplishes absolutely nothing bar surviving (in WvW) as it has no sticking power and winning match-ups in /bow duels, and it isn’t that much worse or any more obnoxious than dozens of popular setups for other classes. No matter how you revamp the class there will be a setup that will consistently kill you regardless, that’s just how the game is.

It’s way too early to truly judge how much the condition buffs to Mesmer will actually affect anything. Need time for everything to settle before demanding any further balance changes. I’m personally finding the torment on scepter auto-attack and the scepter clones themselves rather underwhelming in a real fight. It’s all very slow and many people naturally kite outside of the path and range of scepter clones anyway. Nice to be able to use scepter auto-attack for the first time in forever though.

The change to IE with staff clones though, is immediately noticeable and I love it. It makes staff Mesmers with IE really quite powerful in group fights. Not only does your party receive nice amounts of fury and might, but it’s now a very good idea to lure your opponent into range of a Mesmer’s staff clone to improve group dps through double procs. Condition Mesmers can now occupy a much stronger role in group fights and I think that’s great.

I’m not particularly worried about how these buffs affect duelling. Most duelling arenas have restrictions put in place to attempt to bring balance to what is essentially a player driven game mode. If I want some balance to my duels I will simply go to these arenas.

shimmerless.4560:

It doesn’t change anything because setups that would generally lose to a bunker Mesmer will still lose regardless of what they do to scepter — this has been the case since before scepter #2 was even a condition proc. Not to mention this one in specific accomplishes absolutely nothing bar surviving (in WvW) as it has no sticking power and winning match-ups in /bow duels, and it isn’t that much worse or any more obnoxious than dozens of popular setups for other classes. No matter how you revamp the class there will be a setup that will consistently kill you regardless, that’s just how the game is.

I don’t get the feeling we’re on anywhere near similar wavelengths. If you think this Mesmer build is anything but top tier, and I mean the top of top tier in dueling, let’s duel. Hit me up, we will set up a meeting. No harm no foul. I just want you to see what I see.

Mbelch.9028:

shimmerless.4560:

It doesn’t change anything because setups that would generally lose to a bunker Mesmer will still lose regardless of what they do to scepter — this has been the case since before scepter #2 was even a condition proc. Not to mention this one in specific accomplishes absolutely nothing bar surviving (in WvW) as it has no sticking power and winning match-ups in /bow duels, and it isn’t that much worse or any more obnoxious than dozens of popular setups for other classes. No matter how you revamp the class there will be a setup that will consistently kill you regardless, that’s just how the game is.

I don’t get the feeling we’re on anywhere near similar wavelengths. If you think this Mesmer build is anything but top tier, and I mean the top of top tier in dueling, let’s duel. Hit me up, we will set up a meeting. No harm no foul. I just want you to see what I see.

I am well aware of its capabilities however it loses to numerous other Mesmer setups (meaning even if it gets changed people will just play something else anyway) and its survivability comes at the cost of having basically zero utility or mobility whatsoever.

It isn’t that different to any of its competitors, and in that field there’ll always be one spec that’s king. I have no clue why people get so wound up about it.

shimmerless.4560:

Mbelch.9028:

shimmerless.4560:

It doesn’t change anything because setups that would generally lose to a bunker Mesmer will still lose regardless of what they do to scepter — this has been the case since before scepter #2 was even a condition proc. Not to mention this one in specific accomplishes absolutely nothing bar surviving (in WvW) as it has no sticking power and winning match-ups in /bow duels, and it isn’t that much worse or any more obnoxious than dozens of popular setups for other classes. No matter how you revamp the class there will be a setup that will consistently kill you regardless, that’s just how the game is.

I don’t get the feeling we’re on anywhere near similar wavelengths. If you think this Mesmer build is anything but top tier, and I mean the top of top tier in dueling, let’s duel. Hit me up, we will set up a meeting. No harm no foul. I just want you to see what I see.

I am well aware of its capabilities however it loses to numerous other Mesmer setups (meaning even if it gets changed people will just play something else anyway) and its survivability comes at the cost of having basically zero utility or mobility whatsoever.

It isn’t that different to any of its competitors, and in that field there’ll always be one spec that’s king. I have no clue why people get so wound up about it.

Mesmer with staff is a fantastically mobile class. If they decide to take PU, they’re even frequently under swiftness.

I think you’re overlooking and overplaying things very conveniently.

Mbelch.9028:

shimmerless.4560:

Mbelch.9028:

shimmerless.4560:

It doesn’t change anything because setups that would generally lose to a bunker Mesmer will still lose regardless of what they do to scepter — this has been the case since before scepter #2 was even a condition proc. Not to mention this one in specific accomplishes absolutely nothing bar surviving (in WvW) as it has no sticking power and winning match-ups in /bow duels, and it isn’t that much worse or any more obnoxious than dozens of popular setups for other classes. No matter how you revamp the class there will be a setup that will consistently kill you regardless, that’s just how the game is.

I don’t get the feeling we’re on anywhere near similar wavelengths. If you think this Mesmer build is anything but top tier, and I mean the top of top tier in dueling, let’s duel. Hit me up, we will set up a meeting. No harm no foul. I just want you to see what I see.

I am well aware of its capabilities however it loses to numerous other Mesmer setups (meaning even if it gets changed people will just play something else anyway) and its survivability comes at the cost of having basically zero utility or mobility whatsoever.

It isn’t that different to any of its competitors, and in that field there’ll always be one spec that’s king. I have no clue why people get so wound up about it.

Mesmer with staff is a fantastically mobile class. If they decide to take PU, they’re even frequently under swiftness.

I think you’re overlooking and overplaying things very conveniently.

No I think you’re being hysterical, and Mesmer mobility is average with staff not fantastic by any means. But go ahead, please tell me what this spec accomplishes outside of rules duels, where people are going to complain about the next best thing anyway?

I like how you tag people as “enjoying the buff” so you sounded more objective. But truth be told, if you don’t present a solid in-combat analysis footage of “Tack on swiftness and might” on “perma protection, everfrequent blocks” and “overpowers everything in a 1v1” then no one is going to find your argument objective, no matter how many “We tested” you said.

Traiting IE also means losing torch CD or DE, either one has cons when compared to standard 4/4/6/0/0 PU. Torment AA also isn’t as bad as you think, the main killer is still scepter #2 block, as oppose to 2s torment from kill-able clone’s slow projectile (which can miss if you just run sideways at sufficient distance). I think people just need time to adjust to the new condition, and try not to burn cleanse too early.

I don’t think clone death is as significant now since its evade-able and has 40%-45% loss of bleed damage. I’ve seen lots of random clone killing after the patch and there isn’t enough punishment to stop people from doing so. Also 3s swiftness hardly make mesmer faster, if you think stacking swiftness is a problem then consider how much defensive boons your opponent lose when proc swiftness more than once.