Guild Wars 2

Hello. Mesmer players and…..rest of you… :P

As you may or may not know deceptive evasion (DE) is a staple in every viable mesmer build simply because mesmer does not have the clone generation from utility and weapon skills to fuel their shatters without DE.

This means that every single mesmer NEEDs to run DE in order to be even remotely effective. Although this is perfectly fine Mesmers have always made way with it. However diversity is slightly lower than what it should be.

For example no mesmer can run any of the dueling master traits as they have to grab deceptive evasion instead. Thus they can only grab a different master trait if they place 30 points in to dueling. At which point they would be missing out on a grandmaster trait.

Now Mesmers have long since been coming up with drastic suggestions to change this.mbut none without theoretical consequences such as drastic mesmer play style changes, build diversity destroying, and much much more.
In addition to this

none of them have the simplicity to be called a perfect solution.

However I think I have found the perfect solution.
Suggestion V

WHAT if deceptive evasion was moved to the dueling master minor trait?
And sharper images the current dueling master minor trait was moved to the dueling adept selection? *
(Sharper images cant be moved up to dueling master because it’s really too week to be that plus it would hurt a few pure condie specks that don’t run DE.)
What does this do?

1) allows mesmer to grab a master dueling trait as well as the mesmer staple DE
2)
allows mesmer to only have to put 3 trait points in dueling allowing them to place 1 point elsewhere. This opens up a few other build possibilities.

Negatives?
None.
if someone wanted to run their build before this change they can without any changes to their build exempt swapping the location of DE and sharper images.

Dueling trait line so you can see the change. (Imaging DE were sharper images is)V
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dueling

Thoughts?

just a quick glance at the change
it sounds good
just curious what trait would be moved to major selection?

Tadsoul.6951:

just a quick glance at the change
it sounds good
just curious what trait would be moved to major selection?

Deceptive evasion needs to be moved to were sharper images is. Soooo let’s debate were sharper images should go….

Can’t go in to master selection pool because it’s really too week to be that and thus idiotic to increase the price if you want to run it. Not to mention we would not help out condie builds at all that Need to run the trait.

so down it goes to the adept selectable trait pool in dueling

Keeps it perfectly balanced while opening up different build options.

What about phantasm builds? Deceptive evasion is a potential liability in that kind of build especially PvE.

Also if a trait is mandatory in builds then one of the following things must happen:
A. if the trait is overpowered, nerf.
or
B. create a trait that does something similar in a different way in a different line .

PS: I think 4 point for deceptive evasion is balanced.

Tim.6450:

What about phantasm builds? Deceptive evasion is a potential liability in that kind of build especially PvE.

I’d rather solve that at a more basic level. I feel a class intentionally not utilizing it’s class mechanic because it would genuinely be a downside is a design mistake, and should be fixed.

While I’m all for diversity, I think this can be solved another way, because in this case it only reduces the problem, it does not solve it.

As another forum-goer suggested in the Mesmer Forums, it would be better to add new traits, maybe 2 or so, which provide an alternative method of clone production. Maybe “Create an extra clone when you teleport” or “Clone on Interrupt” or “Clone on Shatter Skill[so after you use a shatter you have another illusion off the bat]”. This way we don’t have to rely on a single trait and it doesn’t mess up the builds that don’t use it.

I think there’s another way. There’s loads of bad Mesmer talents in all the trees that nobody uses, if some of these where changed to produce closes in various ways (e.g. clones on heal, clones on attack with 5-10s cd etc…) then DE would no longer be 100% required.

I really really prefer just improving the baseline. Class aspects should not be useless unless traits are spent on it. In other words, reduce trait impact, improve baseline power. Ideally, all Mesmers have all utility skills always fully usable and useful in different situations, and traits just add off-uses to them.

I’d be fine with moving DE to minor Master trait and putting Sharper images down to adept but I don’t think the current critical infusion is a fair choice for a master major trait.

Moving either critical infusion or sharper images to a major trait I think should gain a slight buff, either knock off 5 seconds from critical infusion, or up the bleeds on sharper images to 8 3/4s

Yes this does give a slight buff to some of the old builds, however it makes it actually worth while to go that far into the tree for newer builds.

Daishi.6027:

I’d be fine with moving DE to minor Master trait and putting Sharper images down to adept but I don’t think the current critical infusion is a fair choice for a master major trait.

Moving either critical infusion or sharper images to a major trait I think should gain a slight buff, either knock off 5 seconds from critical infusion, or up the bleeds on sharper images to 8 3/4s

Yes this does give a slight buff to some of the old builds, however it makes it actually worth while to go that far into the tree for newer builds.

Critical infusion is not being moved.
All that’s happening with my suggestion is deceptive evasion is being placed were sharper images is, and sharper images is being moved to the selectable adept traits such as blade training.

I’m against moving this because what you are suggesting is a buff to the 4/4/0/0/6 spec that is already strong enough. I’m not sure exactly how they would respec, but it so much potential for abuse.

Here is my suggestions to break the reliance on DE for almost all builds:

Put 5s ICD on creating a clone on-dodge, but make it INNATE to all mesmers. Taking DE removes the ICD completely.

This way, you can get by without DE, but builds that shatter a lot will still really want to take it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/SPvP-Necessary-traits-build-diversity

Why not just remove DE?
Problem solved