Question about engis

Question about engis

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

I have spent at least 15 hours in engi, mostly PvP, but some PvE dungeons. I have too say, it feels like total BS to have this much condi spamming, easy access to boon, (IE vigor and swift just for switching to a kit!), and spammable CC all in one build. I mostly use Engi just to troll in PvP because its a joke of a class to me at this point. Would any experienced engi’s please explain to me what I am missing or is this class just stupid OP in spvp. W/ tool kit, flamethrower, and shield I can CC or block almost as spam time killer while any critical hit applies burn?! That’s on par w guard at this point plus all the other spamable condis. I feel their overall CC needs to be toned down or make the condis not as mindless to apply, such as needing to flank, like a ranger does even without all the engi CC! Now you may say “just play engi and be happy then!” but I hate the mindless gameplay (v ele for example which is really hands on in which skill is best for each situation)
Any thoughts on why my thought process might be mislead? What is the sacrifice to gain such strong CC? Let’s have a proper discussion

(edited by Shrapnel.7249)

Question about engis

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Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

We all know that you hate engis because you post it all over the forum. But please stop trolling.

Please it is boring and annoying

Face a condi necro and you die in < 15sec. And no offense but you never played soloQ or teamQ in top 1000 so I guess you do not really face good people. Engi has a very hard time vs some classes and good player know how do handle him.

Sure the engi is very strong at the moment, but face a bleeding/survival ranger, any necro, a good ele or a condi warrior and say again that the engi is op.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

Thanks for the feedback. This is an honest discussion. Necro cannot maintain the condi’s uptime as they are not triggered on basic attacks on staff. They rely often on aoe and fearing the enemy into triggers. Yes focus and sceptor also apply condis but not to w the easy and low cooldown of Engi. They also do NOT have any form of stability or a reliable source of regen, as your engi so easily does. Bleed ranger, again, needs to flank to continue a sustainable assault. I learned to play engi in order to better understand how to combat them, this is how I know of their ridiculous spam skills. Secondly, I’ll meet you in solo Q now that 4v5s are fixed.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

If you want to learn how do handle engis thats ok, but stop posting this kind of threads. You have only a little idea how it is to play an engi but you post that they are OP and your posting about the necro shows that you never played with an engi vs a good condi necro.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

I appreciate your opinion, let’s keep the discussion going

Question about engis

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Whoa you’ve played an engi for 15 whole hours?! Watch out guys we have an expert over here.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

Wooo hoo! Not an expert, but at least past my apprenticeship. I prefer martial classes so far.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Wooo hoo! Not an expert, but at least past my apprenticeship. I prefer martial classes so far.

15 hours isn’t even close to scratching the surface of a class. Fighting a bunker engi on point can be annoying but it’s never impossible. Engi’s have a lot of powerful skills and traits but they can’t bring them all at once, there is always a trade off. Usually you will find that they are extremely vulnerable to conditions and cc’s.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

Thanks, for addressing the topic! Agreed they trade off quite a bit in order to spam condi, elixers can only do so much. I think the issue is the passive damage of condi paired w (and the real issue I feel) an abnormal about of CC. Condi bunker is the standard for point cap which is totally understandable, but the CC on such short cooldowns is what I’ve used personally and been used against me that will often determine the fight.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

Thanks, for addressing the topic! Agreed they trade off quite a bit in order to spam condi, elixers can only do so much. I think the issue is the passive damage of condi paired w (and the real issue I feel) an abnormal about of CC. Condi bunker is the standard for point cap which is totally understandable, but the CC on such short cooldowns is what I’ve used personally and been used against me that will often determine the fight.

The bunkers rarely bring boon stripping, just send someone in with stability and cc/condi’s of their own to deal with them.

The real problem is that conquest is the only PvP game mode and the points are ridiculously small. If they nerf engi’s because PvP is screwed up they will ruin them for other game modes like WvW roaming/dueling.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

That, my friend, is an excellent point! That really is a problem, because it would not affect any real aspect of PvE, but I can see how that would change dueling as well as WvW roaming. Most engi I see, including myself when I played, really would not venture deep into WvW just because of the fact that without the tight spaces most fights are not in their favor. If there were multiple game modes for spvp I could absolutely justify the ability to spam CC. In that sense they would serve a specific purpose in each game mode rather than serving the MAIN purpose in the ONLY game mode. Even a Capture the flag type game could use engi to defend, but it would be entirely reasonable considering it would be serving a purpose rather than the only purpose.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

#1:
Engi loves wvw, since bombkit can become extremely effective in zergs, toolkit solves any range-issue, and most of our abilities are suited for multi-target combat anyways. In case of s/d, we actually want at least 2 enemies for max efficiency.
#2:
There is a reason why engi is commonly known as one of the most-suited classes for wvw roaming: fast, access to stealth, many escape options, high dmg output on both condis and power

Shrapnel, stop posting.

You still have no idea about the class, make ridiculous claims about it, and argument completely aside your own point.
You already got called out for this in the other thread, so you openend this one, just so the same people must/can/will call you out again.
Do yourself a favor: leave this topic alone for at least 3 months, dive deep into engi, and read in the engi sub-forum or metabattle.com what good builds are and how to play them.
If you got insight in these builds, for at least 100 matches in ranked team-Q, then you will be ready for this discussion, and I highly doubt you’d still support your own point (“ENGI OP – NERF NERF NERF” as seen in the last thread -.-).

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

(edited by Arantheal.7396)

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

Nice opinion! I think I’ll continue having an opinion as well, if that pleases you.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

Nope, because yours’ is off reality, bases on 15h playtime, and states simply untrue claims.Therefore it will spawn nothing but unproductive arguments, wasting your and everyones’ else time.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

So you don’t have a shield 4 skill that pushes, a tool kit that pulls, a flamethrower that pushes all 3 under 30 second cooldown (w the flamethrower being 15s). 2 forms of moving blocks w shield and tool kit. all in the same build that does condi damage w crits that burn, and the elite which drops turrets just for extra effect?
That’s news to me :O

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

Yes, we do, and what you just described is the following build:
Toolkit / Flamethrower / Pistol + shield / supplycrate.

You have room for one more utility, so lets see what options you have:
Since you run p/s, you’re forced to run condi or hybrid.
If you run condi, your only 2 options are going into nades or bombs.
But doing so leaves you without any stunbreaker, so you are subject to stunlocks and insta-downstate.
If you pack any other stunbreaker then elixir gun, people will simply kite and kill you since your effective range is somewhere between 450 to 600, which also does subpar dmg, since you can’t stack bleed or poison effectively.
If you pack elixir gun, you can hope to AA people to death at best, which fails as soon as you meet someoe with condi-clears (like every other meta-build from any other class has) and/or stability (which also most of meta-builds for other classes pack).
So you end up with a condi-bunker than canĂ„t apply condis, and a cc-spammer that can’t rip stability.
Your crits still only burn every 10 sec, and your FT toolbelt has a 60sec recharge.

I mean, run it, see for yourself how insignificant burn appliance is, if you have nothing but that.

As I told the other guy in the other thread:
If you’re foolish enough to max out one aspect of a class (cc-spam in this case), then you will run your nose bloody on any generic build. Pew pew rangers f.e., that just push you off range and go into 20 sec of stability while pew’ pew’ing you to death.
And in case you didn’t notice: a condimancer eats you alive, corrupting your mightstacs to weakness and throwing most of your condis back on you, while also pressuring you with his own.
A terrormancer fears you to death.
A hambow cc’s you to death.
A meditation guard blinks to – and drops you you.
other engis will condi-overload you, and the cc’s you have will not support your own pressure on them (which is not there), but only buy you time from the inevitable downstate.

the only classes you could effectively control with this is thief, IF you see them coming, which will mostly not be the case.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Shrapnel.7249

Shrapnel.7249

You have my genuine thanks for addressing the topic, rather than typical forum bash. 1+!
Personally I ran Elixer S, additional invul paired w stealth was very useful. Warrior Ham bows generally tend to forcast their main forms of cc before they can get it off. So with that, a well placed dodge or a cc at the right time gerally solves the issue. Also a sigil of doom handles their passive regen.
Medi guards have a very short staple of condi removal, which is normally a 16s single condi or a 48s condi conversion. So for the most part medi guards shouldnt cause many issues, especially since they sell out medi for 0 stability.
Now terromancer…. it’s only fair to say all builds have at least one hard counter. But necros have enough issues, they deserve some form of winning.
And pew pew rangers, just no.. No. Get in range and they are absolutely worthless, and have little to 0 condi removal. Nobody should honestly lose to a pew pew ranger. They sell everything they can trait just to pewpew.

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Posted by: vincecontix.1264

vincecontix.1264

Guys stop posting in the pointless thread the op just wants to keep it going.

Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir

Question about engis

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

I don’t speak about noobs on builds they can’t control, I speak about people who are experienced in their class.
actual pew pew rangers run hybrid with traps (since they are not dumb enough to trade off everything for a single burst), and run either greatsword, sword/dagger or sword/torch for melee, which kills you extremely fast, hambows are not mindless and will save their cc’s for the most tremendous moments, while controlling you with blind, and simply eathing the poor condi-aaplience you have with their naturally big healthpool long enough for their team to jump you. medi-guards will not jump you in 1v1’s initially (since they are very aware oft their poor cleanse), but focus you down in 2v1 or 2v2’s. As soon as they see that you don’t really apply any condis (you still run FT instead of nades or bombs), they clear you out on their own for the rest of the match.

You make this way to easy for yourself by assuming that everybody is as inexperienced as people in hotjoin. Which shows even more problems with your personal opinion on the class since you’ve never seen its performance in the hands of a skilled player, surrounded by skilled players.
But ofc, in hotjoin a skilled engi wrecks havoc on various builds, if he knows what he does. same goes for any other experienced player on any other class.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

Question about engis

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

Guys stop posting in the pointless thread the op just wants to keep it going.

yea…
9th december… can’t wait for it.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.