Guild Wars 2

Now i understand that they don’t want Race Elites to be as strong as Class elites but i think they could do with being buffed a bit. This alone could open up options for different Builds and such with some of them just being increased a bit and/or having cool downs slightly toned down.

Sure this wouldn’t affect S/TPvP but ti think it would give us more options when it comes to WvW and PvE. I barely use my class elites because for my build – they are rather weak. So it would be nice if Race Elites were improved a bit.

What do you guys think?
What Race Elites would you like buffed and how?

I wish the Charr elites were worth a kitten .

They could be really solid and open up new options for builds but currently they are a bit TOO weak, sure i don’t expect or demand they be better than class elites but they could be improved a bit.

I’d prefer them underwhelming, honestly, especially when it comes to WvW.

I’d much rather see my viability not be shot based upon which race I play combined with what class I choose.

That is, unless all characters received an equal equivalent to all racial skills for their own race. When it comes down to elites, balance needs to be much more heavily considered and done so without disrupting certain characters/classes. If all classes had their own aesthetic difference to a pool of elite skills which all performed the same way, then I would totally agree they would need to be buffed up by a bit.

Of course all races would have Elites as strong as each other, Unless you know EXACTLY what build you would be playing and knowing EXACTLY which elite you would want. I mean i know Ele that use Norn elites, i know Ele that use Human elites. It all depends on the build and the way you like to play.

It wouldnt be: “Oh, you’re X class you should have gone with Y race”
It would be: “Oh you’re X class. Y race have solid race Elites but so does Z race”

It would be about just having that different option when it comes to the Elites

Take Hounds of Balthazar for example.

At Level 80: 10,000Health and 2,000Armor i think
That alone is rather poor meaning they can be 1 shot. I tested it against a Veteran and they died in about 5-10seconds.

The Basic attack deals less than my Ele auto attack does which is bad, the Burning is a mere 1 second as well, really think it could be buffed a little. Fiery Leap isnt to bad, unknown the cool down on it though.

For a 240 second. That is FOUR minute cool down. It is simply very poor. It simply is NOT worth a 4minute cool down. Think they should get buffed by say 25% of the players stats when it comes to Health, Armor, Power and such.

There should be no complementary classes, though, is what I’m saying.

All classes would need to have access to all of the elites, changing only in aesthetics.

If say for example class X is complemented by races A and B, but I want to play race D, why should I be at an inherent disadvantage? Keeping the racial abilities underpowered prevents this kind of stuff from happening and prevents such min-maxing at the cost of ruining player experience.

Again, I’m not saying the elites don’t deserve a buff/are not underpowered, I’m stating that in order to buff them, all classes require the same elite skill pool with the only difference being their appearance/flavor to keep the game balanced and fun for everyone.

Then in that case, Ele needs HUGE buff on Elites. It says a lot that more people use FGS not for how powerful it is but for the mobility it offers. My build has NO class elite that is useful on Ele either.

The racial Elites are fine (design wise) they are a tad underpowered for what they offer

Some of the racial elites are more or less fine as they are, they just need to be polished up.

For instance, I feel that become the bear is fine as it is, but the attack animations make it exceptionally clunky to use. If they just cleaned them up to be more fluid or allow you to move while using them, then it would be perfect.

There are some that could definitely use a little bit of a buff though… but I think we’re more likely to see underwater combat balance changes rather than racial skill changes.

Artillery barrage (Charr Elite) is Just Useless….. I woldnt even use it if it was a utility skill… Its really that bad.

Frostfang.5109:

Artillery barrage (Charr Elite) is Just Useless….. I woldnt even use it if it was a utility skill… Its really that bad.

The real question is: would you use mortar instead of it?

@Yamsandjams – I agree, some of them the Norn racials pretty much just need tweaks to animations. Others HoB, RoG and such i just think needs a little tweak and buff just to make it so they are a viable option. When you have an Elite that just dies to Level mobs in mere seconds, it shows that it is simply to weak.

From a balance standpoint every racial is fine except Become the Snow Leopard. This skill, even if an elite with a high cooldown, gives such an amazing escape tool that it makes thieves cry.
#nerfsnowleopard2014

“From a balance standpoint every racial is fine " – Yeah because a 4minute Elite when the summoned creatures die within 10seconds to a single mob is perfectly “fine” lets not forget that it can’t be cast on the move either (no idea why)

Use your proper elite as an ele which won’t die in 10s. Problem solved.

“They may have various effects, such as condition removing or changing to a bear form, but they are all projected to be fairly weaker than their counterparts from professions that are specialized in similar skills.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Racial_Skills

They are weaker by design to not make a racial choice mandatory or overpowered, simple as that.

Well, that would be okay if Ele had an Elite for my kind of build – they don’t the closest would be FGS but even that is lacking in what i need. I run a condition build and as such i am pretty much forced into using Reaper of Grenth, it is pretty decent and works okay in group fights but it is rather lacking in smaller scale.

HoB could have been a good alternative but they simply die WAY to fast and have an INSANE cool down, seriously 4minutes!? They die within 5-10seconds it saying they stay up for 30seconds is silly because that only happens if you are fighting NOTHING.

I am not asking they be over powered and i am not asking that they make them so they are mandatory, all i am saying is they need a slight buff.a FOUR minute elite should not die within seconds to ONE mob, it makes having the thing in the game useless.

Condition build on ele? Wut? Stop complaining please if you don’t even have a decent build …

Yamsandjams.3267:

Frostfang.5109:

Artillery barrage (Charr Elite) is Just Useless….. I woldnt even use it if it was a utility skill… Its really that bad.

The real question is: would you use mortar instead of it?

Yes. Yes I would.

reaper of grenth would be awesome for my guardian because i lack cc
same story with tomes though, they are good but i dont use them because of the cooldowns .

When something is inherently weaker by design than other choices… Why would you take that weaker elite? racial elites DEFINATELY need a buff. All of them really. And while we are at it racial skills as well. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wanted to use golems on my asura, or plant turrets on my sylvari, or even make a cleric/priest human that uses the prayer utilities. CMON Arenanet please! Give us some diversity because when people use the same builds to fight each other it’s simply no fun. I even bought the Heroic edition or whatever it’s called soley for the Mistfire wolf. And it really isn’t that great and it’s aweful.

I’m actually pretty happy with where race elites are now.

If you make race elites worth using over normal elites in anything other than a handful of niche encounters, then you run into a total balance nightmare where players are subject to being at an unfair disadvantage because of a race choice they made before they were able to understand the full range of implications.

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m actually pretty happy with where race elites are now.

If you make race elites worth using over normal elites in anything other than a handful of niche encounters, then you run into a total balance nightmare where players are subject to being at an unfair disadvantage because of a race choice they made before they were able to understand the full range of implications.

Again, i am not saying about making them insanely powerful. What i am saying is that they need to be buffed from the current state they are in. This alone would open up options for different builds and such.

It is not as if people pick a race for no reason at all as it it, some go for looks, others ALREADY go for the skills that the race has. It would just be nice if the racial skills were a little bit more powerful but rather than be balanced against Class elites – they are balanced against other racial skills and elites.

Otherwise – what is the point in having them if they are barely used?

I was seriously sad panda’d when I started getting the norn shapeshifts. I used leopard a bit in WvW for ez escapes and knockdown trolls but they could do with some help

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m actually pretty happy with where race elites are now.

If you make race elites worth using over normal elites in anything other than a handful of niche encounters, then you run into a total balance nightmare where players are subject to being at an unfair disadvantage because of a race choice they made before they were able to understand the full range of implications.

You say that as if it is suggested that just because one race has them over another, the other race is at a disadvantage and the racial elites are ridiculously OP.

This would be true if done very poorly but what I, and others, were suggesting is for the racials to be made viable for everyday use. No one would be disadvantaged because these elites already have counters, and would simply be an actual contender with the elites of actual professions.

bobomb.5209:

You say that as if it is suggested that just because one race has them over another, the other race is at a disadvantage and the racial elites are ridiculously OP.

This would be true if done very poorly but what I, and others, were suggesting is for the racials to be made viable for everyday use. No one would be disadvantaged because these elites already have counters, and would simply be an actual contender with the elites of actual professions.

This. Just because asking for Racial skills to be a little better is NOT asking them to be insanely overpowered or anything. They should be solid choices outside of using class Elites, currently that is not the case because most of them are rather lacking – either in duration, power, defense or having an insanely unjustified cool down – HoB screams out – rather poor damage, pathetic burning and dies within 5-10seconds and if not doing anything lasts 30 seconds….On a 4minute cool down!? That is awful.

Sylvari immob utility skill isn’t terrible. Not an elite skill but I still like having it on classes that could really do with a decent duration immob (s/d ele comes to mind)

Aerathnor.8305:

Sylvari immob utility skill isn’t terrible. Not an elite skill but I still like having it on classes that could really do with a decent duration immob (s/d ele comes to mind)

I’m not saying ALL of them are terrible. Some are pretty decent but then you have others that are simply brokenly underpowered to the point they are wasted in the game because no one uses them.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Aerathnor.8305:

Sylvari immob utility skill isn’t terrible. Not an elite skill but I still like having it on classes that could really do with a decent duration immob (s/d ele comes to mind)

I’m not saying ALL of them are terrible. Some are pretty decent but then you have others that are simply brokenly underpowered to the point they are wasted in the game because no one uses them.

Agreed, I personally love racial skills in games but even if there is one that is statistically better than what my preferred race has I’ll still pick the race I like over being slightly worse off.

I wouldn’t mind if they added a “racial” skill slot for PvE/WvW that doesn’t replace any existing skill slot just so I wouldn’t feel borked for using one.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Frostfang.5109:

Artillery barrage (Charr Elite) is Just Useless….. I woldnt even use it if it was a utility skill… Its really that bad.

The real question is: would you use mortar instead of it?

Yes. Yes I would.

Yeah, the Charr Artillery Barrage is probably the worst elite in the game doing less than half the damage of meteor shower at 8 times the cooldown.

Charzookah, Hounds of Balthazar and Wolf form (despite the CD, a terror proc, 2 other hard cc and siphoning) are all very nice for Necros if other elites dont work (and unlike golem hounds dont upscale events) and have finishers on them.

Reaper of Grenth made sense when it was a 30 point investment/requirement trait.

Other Norn forms are also very cool, but again they have too high cooldowns.
Golems work as higher cd spirit weapons on guards, despite the power suit being just a worse wvwvw golem.
Rest just rghhh.

Necromancer has an elite for ALL situations. So i don’t see them needing/wanting to other anything else. They for example would NEVER use HoB other than it being terrible, dying fast, low damage, insane cool down Necro have Golem which is better in EVERY situation.

Why you are upset about the Hounds when you have an Earth elemental? That thing can face tank almost anything even in high level fractals, not only single open world mobs.
Racials are just for flavor. Accept it and move on.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Necromancer has an elite for ALL situations. So i don’t see them needing/wanting to other anything else. They for example would NEVER use HoB other than it being terrible, dying fast, low damage, insane cool down Necro have Golem which is better in EVERY situation.

Gives condi necro burning, increases headcount for aoes (useful for things like CoF and CM, not so much for arah), doesnt upscale events and they combined die about as fast as golem, not much difference past cooldown, which as said is a general problem.
Also yes lich can be used for all situations, but so could wolf form for condi builds with more synergy (and no plague doesnt count since its there for blind chill weakness, the bleeding from it is pathetic). Charrzookah being even better with cc and one of it being a jump (its dhuumfire on crack for wvwvw if properly used) and not limited by ai stupidity.

Doesnt mean that they are better than origigi profession elites, but they have their usages, but its kinda only for necro… and im not sure if it says more about the difference in power between professions (and im using general status not dumbfire which needs to be nerfed) or kit setups.

I agree the racial skills really could use a second look at. Especially the elites. That said there’s a lot of variation across them, some are rather decent if niche in use. (Snow Leopard, Charrzooka, & Take Root come to mind) While others are just so downright horrid that I can honestly say Ive never seen anyone else use them (Artillery Barrage I’m looking at you).

Really it wouldn’t take much to make them appealing for niche use or at least justifiable for those who enjoy the racial flavor.

Dalanor.5387:

Why you are upset about the Hounds when you have an Earth elemental? That thing can face tank almost anything even in high level fractals, not only single open world mobs.
Racials are just for flavor. Accept it and move on.

Because the Glyph of Elementals is rather terrible itself and doesnt have that much use in my build. None of them have anything that really benefits my build and the fact the “best” skills they have i have zero control over doesnt help.

Can’t be done fairly. It would lead to too many cries that you picked the wrong race/class combination and too many unfair advantages in PvP and WvW.

You would almost need to allow a race respect which would pose so many more problems with gear etc.

Bombsaway.7198:

Can’t be done fairly. It would lead to too many cries that you picked the wrong race/class combination and too many unfair advantages in PvP and WvW.

You would almost need to allow a race respect which would pose so many more problems with gear etc.

No, because they would be balanced against each other. Of course they would be weaker than class elites but they don’t have to be as useless as some of them are now.

Bombsaway.7198:

Can’t be done fairly. It would lead to too many cries that you picked the wrong race/class combination and too many unfair advantages in PvP and WvW.

You would almost need to allow a race respect which would pose so many more problems with gear etc.

Wrong. Look at the human racial elites. Reaper of Grenth = condition builds. Hounds of Balthazar = Power. Avatar of Melandru = Support.

Why do you think it can’t be done fairly? What is the difference between races having different skills and professions having different skills? And if they all have skills that benefit different roles why would anyone complain?

Also those cries that people picked the wrong race would only come if the skills are OP. Which has been stated many times in this thread that it would NOT be OP.

If it can’t be done fairly, then just take out the skills because right now most are useless.

Edit: I posted the human racial elites because they would be fair for all classes to use, and would not be better, nor worse, than options that other races have in such departments.

I think HoB could do with a few tweaks. They die WAY to easily considering the 4minute cool down. The burning they have could be improved as well. Shame they cont offer different conditions based on Ele attunement as well that would be SO useful.

The Elementals we have are rather poor when it comes to conditions and the lack of control of there “Best” attack.

I agree they need a buff but I was simply pointing out that the three elites clearly have specified roles that could be applicable in different builds

bobomb.5209:

I agree they need a buff but I was simply pointing out that the three elites clearly have specified roles that could be applicable in different builds

Yeah it shows how all the Race Elites should be, not quite as powerful as Class Elites but have different ways they could be useful – Power, Conditions, Support maybe?

I’d like to see an elite skill, racial or otherwise, that had passive benefits, like utilities.

Fade.7658:

I’d like to see an elite skill, racial or otherwise, that had passive benefits, like utilities.

Signet of Rage, Summon Flesh Golem (less passive than signet, but still…)

What i really wish is that all racial skills had a “type” that was used by one or more classes and could be traited. For instance, Charr have a shout (war cry), a trap (shrapnel mine), and a trick (hidden pistol). Before anything gets buffed, let racial skills be traited by appropriate class traits.

Also, some class skills arent properly in categories where they can be traited (elites especially).

Finally… i think that some classes have different named skills that have identical mechanics. e.g. symbols=wells, marks=traps. in this case, racial skills should be traitable by equivelent categories. as an example, the charr shrapnel mine (trap) should be traitable by rangers, thieves, and (via mark traits) by necros.

SharkBall.5829:

What i really wish is that all racial skills had a “type” that was used by one or more classes and could be traited. For instance, Charr have a shout (war cry), a trap (shrapnel mine), and a trick (hidden pistol). Before anything gets buffed, let racial skills be traited by appropriate class traits.

Also, some class skills arent properly in categories where they can be traited (elites especially).

Finally… i think that some classes have different named skills that have identical mechanics. e.g. symbols=wells, marks=traps. in this case, racial skills should be traitable by equivelent categories. as an example, the charr shrapnel mine (trap) should be traitable by rangers, thieves, and (via mark traits) by necros.

That is an interesting idea. Though for Ele for example, None of the Human Elites fit into any sort of Category that could mean they could be traited.

An idea though would take a bit more of work would be if the Racial elites differed slightly based on the class.

Example:

Ele using HoB – The condition differs based on Attunement (Fire = Burning, Water = Chill, Air = Weakness, Earth = Bleeding)

Necro using HoB – The condition is random between Poison and Chill

Warrior Using HoB – The Condition is Torment

Again, the duration and stacks would need to be a bit more balanced, 1 second duration is rather poor.

Hounds of Balthazar loses a lot if that happens, though, since Balthazar is the god of war and fire

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hounds of Balthazar loses a lot if that happens, though, since Balthazar is the god of war and fire

and they are his hounds, not him…
If they can’t add other conditions they could at least increase the duration 1 second is pretty woeful for a 4minute cool down.

Here is the problem. Assume you are an engineer. While all the skills may be balanced on whole, chances are there will be one or two that just synergize well with a particular class. Whenever that happens, you tend to see all competitive builds have a race/class combo. Every edge matters which is why there is such a fuss over ascended gear being so silly to craft.

I guarantee you will get a lot of classes and characters wishing they had picked a different race and that resentment isn’t worth the small value for PvE players of having better racial skills.

The only good racial elite is snow leopard

Golem Suit should last until destroyed (or left unattended for 30s). And when destroyed it should open the hatch with you jumping out at 25% health or something (like in that early 1v1 video)!

All the other summons (racial, utilities and elites) should also function more like Necro minions. Summon and they stay until destroyed.

I’d love to run around on my Sylvari Ranger with my own Sylvan Hound pet and Sylvan Hound elite (and a Sylvan Pup Mini if ANet finally gets around to it!! HINT!!)